Unnecessary Sliding/Diving To Catch Balls

Farina Ramirez is a defensive mope!

He may hit home runs in bunches, but, wow, he must "give up" tons of runs with his defense.

Why don't they just let him DH before he gets one on the noggin'?

The Red Sox won't win if they make 4 errors a game. They need to cut that to their normal 2 or 3 to win.

Manny had his best regular season in he field, but has gone back to his old ways in the posteason. I watched all year. He really played well in left and hustled on the bases.

Matt Morris is on short rest tonite. The Sox get into the Cards bullpen early again. Schilling pitches a gem again. The Red Sox win again. How will they handle prosperity?

Diving for a ball is pretty much on instinct. A player will dive if he thinks it's the best or only way to catch the ball. Major Leaguers aren't doing it to show off.

"Never saw Mays, Clemente, Mantle, Kaline,"

That's one reason why they are legends.

Moc1, I agree with you. Diving is a last resort. Some players get carried away with at an early age, and carry the habit on through their career. Some do it because they have been coached that way. Some do it because in the back of their mind they think people will be less critical if they miss the ball on a dive.

For example, we had two diving catches in the NLCS (one by Beltran, one by Edmonds) that didn't meet your criteria of wall or player avoidance. The sliding part of the catch(es) was necessary....and both were game-saving. So I don't agree with it being quite as clear-cut as you suggest.

I do, however, agree that guys dive, slide, and jump unnecessarily at times. It's showboating if the guy plays for the opposition, but it's exciting if he plays for your team. In any case, baseball at the pro level is both a sport and an entertainment...and nobody turns the television off when they announce the highlight reel!

Edmonds is the interesting one because he makes awesome diving catches but he'll also make plays look tougher than they really were on some of the more routine (for him) plays.

Yes he will, CADad! He's said in interviews that it's called "the show" for a reason. People want to see an exciting game....and sometimes the players have to make a routine game exciting.

I think Moc is trying to make the point that Major Leaguers slide and dive too often for balls that should be caught on the run. Period. I do not think he feels that Edmonds and Beltran's catches were caught while diving unnecessarily, Beltran's dive was necessary and I am still witholding judgement on whether or not Edmonds needed to dive. The point is, sliding does make the highlight reels and it shouldn't. Manny Ramirez proved that point beyond any doubt for me.
BTW, since when is diving into the stands without reason grounds for "The Play of the Year?"

I truly believe that the reason this occurs is because of what these kids watch (or don't watch) on TV. Let's face it...our players are from the Sportscenter generation, where they see the Plays of the Week and the Ultimate Highlights every night. Problem is, these same players don't ever watch the actual GAMES to see the important plays that aren't "pretty".
Manny's blunder the other night was pathetic, and he's very fortunate that it didn't cost the Sox the game.

Agree 100%

Orlando-I guess I should have put "slide" in CAPS or quotations. I definitely think there are times when players should dive for balls-Beltran's was one of them
-not sure about Edmonds, although I thought it was a very good catch, and his catch during the season where he jumped over the fence to pull back a homerun was
one of the best I've ever seen.

I'm talking about sliding-as in feet first-to catch a ball-should only happen to avoid the wall or hitting another player. Lots of players now slide to catch balls
that would easily be made if they would just have kept on running and turned their
gloves upward- We called them "shoestring" catches. Ramirez cost his team a run
because he tried to slide to make a catch and caught his cletes in the turf and
also could have very easily wrenched his ankle or knee.

If a player is sliding or diving and his arm is bent when he catches the ball
doesn't it make you wonder if he needed to dive/slide in the first place?

Beltran definitely needed to dive to make the catch that he did.

As an outfielder I think sliding is actually easier than shoestring catches. Shoestrings catches are more difficult to make than what it looks like. Also if you miss a shoestring attempt the ball will most likely bounce past you, but when you dive you have a better chance of blocking the ball if you miss the glove.
Also, for a shoestring catch you have to reach out and down, which is hard to keep balance on. So if you make the catch and you don't get your balance back, you might fall and slide face first making it look like a dive anyway. And it's hard to get the throw off, whereas if you slide, you can pop-up like some guys do when basestealing and you have better balance in getting the throw off.
It's also hard to judge if you can eactually reach the ball. If you misjudge, you get an inbetween hop and it's hard to catch those, whereas sliding can give you that extra couple inches to get a more guaranteed catch.
Then again, I'm not in the Majors, nor a good fielder. My thoughts anyway.

I agree 100% with underground on this one, and yes I am an outfielder as well. I view sliding catches as the perfect thing to do when the ball is too close to dive for, but still a stretch to reach. If the ball happens to bounce before you can reach it, then there is a good chance that you can use a body part to help block the ball and keep it in front. Sliding has benefited me and the teams I have played on greatly, and I will swear by it till the end.

Underground and TheGame2003 I understand the points you are trying to make but I think if you
will think them through you might feel differently.

The right fielder for Boston the other night slid(feet forward) to make a catch and I believe
it was Puholz who saw that he was sliding and went back to second and made it to third very
easily. Would never have happened if he had kept on running to make the catch. Ramirez slid
unnecessarily and missed the ball eventually costing his team a run.

We're not talking about HS or college players here. Professional outfielders have caught
thousands of balls and by now should be able to judge fly balls and whether or not they can get to a ball or not.

As far as blocking a ball-I don't think any coach will teach a player to block a ball by
sitting on his behind as opposed to dropping to his knees and smothering it.

I do understand that less experienced players slide sometimes because they HAVE misjudged
the ball and want to make sure that at the very least if they can't catch it they have a better chance of blocking it. My senior son explained to me that he has done it in the past
bcause of that reason but that with more experience he is able to judge the balls better.

I guess what gets me is the player that OBVIOUSLY slid or dove to make a catch and it was
clear that it was all for show.

Manny was very lucky his leg didn't break into six pieces. There's a DH spot somewhere in his future.

I think everybody's got some valid points on this one (with one exception ).

I think the pro's do dive and slide unnecessarily at times for the sake of show. It would be nice if young players recognized this, but I would expect that most serious young ballplayers will eventually. I don't know how much The Greats slid or dove as we don't have the extensive archive of film on them that we have on more current players....but I certainly remember Wally Moon crashing into wallls and making diving catches at the old Sportman's Park as he's the man who made me fall in love with defense.

Underground and thegame, as outfielders, make some very interesting points that should be considered. Just as the pitcher's mechanics and hitters' swings have evolved, fielding has as well...particularly with the increased athleticism of the players.

What I don't agree with is the 'jury out' on Edmonds' catch . Three reasons: 1) He's a Cardinal and that's my team 2) There was an interesting segment on GMA (go figure)with a computer simulation and a doctor on how that catch was pretty much impossible 3) And with the appalling camera work on Fox, I don't see how anybody could make a judgement on any catch: where were they positioned with the pitch? what kind of jump did they have? which way was the wind blowing?