Unofficial Visits

2019Dad posted:

WestCoastPapa' current thread raised a question for me, that I would love input from the group on. When a school invites a player to come on campus for an UV -- not a "if you are in the area, stop by" invitation (not that there are anything wrong with those) but instead "please come visit we'd really like to show you around," and the plan is for the HC and RC to be there for the visit -- and the school is out-of-state, and they know there will be considerable effort and expense for the kid coming for a UV . . . well, how common is it for the school to extend an offer on that kind of UV?

If it's a local school, it seems like no big deal, but if there are flights and hotels involved it seems to me the school ought to be serious about the kid (or, if not, then my conclusion would be they do not practice the golden rule).

Any thoughts or experiences on this topic?

Following 

Wondering this, too.  

Coaches at a pair of D1s, a D2 and a JUCO invited son for UVs. In a couple of cases, they were in conjunction with a camp, but those inclued the coach calling and saying, hey we have a camp. Would like you to come in a day ahead or stay after so we can show  you around and talk.

In three cases, the HC and RC spent a lot of time with us — walked us around the athletic facilities, and all extended offers, two on the spot, the third a few days after we got home. We expected similar at the other D1 and spent a lot of time with the PC, but never even saw the HC. It was odd because at one point the PC told my 2018 he was at the top of their recruiting board. Apparently not any more.

A Legit invite to come on campus and meet the HC and RC is golden. Most schools will not offer kids until they've been on campus. But that does not necessarily mean that they will offer on the spot.

My son was invited as a rising JR to a school out of state under the same pretense. What I did is I phoned the RC and explained that while my son was excited about the visit , there were serious costs involved. Therefor I needed to know where he was at on ' the board' . He told me he was 3rd at his position. I then asked what his time frame was on offers for the guys at the top or in the top 3 . He said they were actively considering offers on all three players. That was good enough for me . We flew out and did the visit. They didn't offer at that time but it was a great experience for my son. FYI I normally did not phone RC's . The kid talks to them. But when it comes to money or costs like that it is perfectly fine for a parent to call and in this particular case vet the interest.

Another unofficial visit with a HC and RC my son did was sort of local . Maybe an hour and a half drive away. I took my soon there . Dropped him off at the baseball dept and made my way to the financial aid building . FYI: That is your role as a parent. Figure out the net gap costs of attendance. Meet the people there and ask questions . I met up with my son and the HC and staff at lunch. They offered at lunch. They said he was the number 1 player at his position on the infamous 'board' and they made a very attractive and flattering offer. My son really liked the school and was tempted to shake the HC's hand and accept but we had discussed earlier that if an offer was extended he was to thank the HC and tell him he would need to give it serious thought . I actually think he said " I need to talk to my mom" which I thought was perfect.

He did not commit to either school. He ended up committing to a D1 school in the south.

One last thing. With a 2019 the timing is right but you need to be sure that you do not do any unofficial visits that incur significant costs unless your son is absolutely willing to commit if they offer. All these kids want offers but very few are prepared for what happens when they do in fact get one! The first visit example I used was expensive . I vetted the interest with the baseball dept than asked my son " Are you willing to commit if they offer?" He said" Absolutely....in a heart beat"  So, we did it.

2019Dad,

So, if the invite is this summer it may be that HC and RC are trying to get a jump on the D1 recruiting baseball calendar. D1 Official baseball visits can't happen until after senior year begins (according to NCAA College Bound Athlete document...see below).  The unofficial visit is significantly more flexible and can happen just about anytime.  So, I would look at this as a genuine opportunity for your son to spend time with the HC and RC, and determine if this school moves up on his list (assuming it is since you are asking the question).  

A couple thoughts...first is you get one shot at this on the front end and any school that is at the top of your son's list probably deserves his due diligence within $$ reason.  Second, most official visits in baseball are foregone conclusions when they happen.  D1 players have already decided prior to their senior year where they are going.   Almost all D1 college baseball recruiting business is conducted with unofficial visits prior to senior year.  Your mileage may vary with D2, D3 and others.  Here is the document I mentioned earlier.

https://www.ncaapublications.c...a-package-of-25.aspx

Good luck.

PS...As a point of reference.  My son probably did 20 unofficial visits since soph year, multiple unOVs to some schools.  He only did one OV to a Patriot League school that was a disaster.  He attended a prospect camp and did an unOV (through admissions) to the school he would eventually select.  

fenwaysouth posted:

2019Dad,

So, if the invite is this summer it may be that HC and RC are trying to get a jump on the D1 recruiting baseball calendar. D1 Official baseball visits can't happen until after senior year begins (according to NCAA College Bound Athlete document...see below).  The unofficial visit is significantly more flexible and can happen just about anytime.  So, I would look at this as a genuine opportunity for your son to spend time with the HC and RC, and determine if this school moves up on his list (assuming it is since you are asking the question).  

A couple thoughts...first is you get one shot at this on the front end and any school that is at the top of your son's list probably deserves his due diligence within $$ reason.  Second, most official visits in baseball are foregone conclusions when they happen.  D1 players have already decided prior to their senior year where they are going.   Almost all D1 college baseball recruiting business is conducted with unofficial visits prior to senior year.  Your mileage may vary with D2, D3 and others.  Here is the document I mentioned earlier.

https://www.ncaapublications.c...a-package-of-25.aspx

Good luck.

PS...As a point of reference.  My son probably did 20 unofficial visits since soph year, multiple unOVs to some schools.  He only did one OV to a Patriot League school that was a disaster.  He attended a prospect camp and did an unOV (through admissions) to the school he would eventually select.  

Thanks for the insight. Wow, 20 unofficial visits! That's doing your due diligence! Sending you a PM.

StrainedOblique posted:

A Legit invite to come on campus and meet the HC and RC is golden. Most schools will not offer kids until they've been on campus. But that does not necessarily mean that they will offer on the spot.

My son was invited as a rising JR to a school out of state under the same pretense. What I did is I phoned the RC and explained that while my son was excited about the visit , there were serious costs involved. Therefor I needed to know where he was at on ' the board' . He told me he was 3rd at his position. I then asked what his time frame was on offers for the guys at the top or in the top 3 . He said they were actively considering offers on all three players. That was good enough for me . We flew out and did the visit. They didn't offer at that time but it was a great experience for my son. FYI I normally did not phone RC's . The kid talks to them. But when it comes to money or costs like that it is perfectly fine for a parent to call and in this particular case vet the interest.

Another unofficial visit with a HC and RC my son did was sort of local . Maybe an hour and a half drive away. I took my soon there . Dropped him off at the baseball dept and made my way to the financial aid building . FYI: That is your role as a parent. Figure out the net gap costs of attendance. Meet the people there and ask questions . I met up with my son and the HC and staff at lunch. They offered at lunch. They said he was the number 1 player at his position on the infamous 'board' and they made a very attractive and flattering offer. My son really liked the school and was tempted to shake the HC's hand and accept but we had discussed earlier that if an offer was extended he was to thank the HC and tell him he would need to give it serious thought . I actually think he said " I need to talk to my mom" which I thought was perfect.

He did not commit to either school. He ended up committing to a D1 school in the south.

One last thing. With a 2019 the timing is right but you need to be sure that you do not do any unofficial visits that incur significant costs unless your son is absolutely willing to commit if they offer. All these kids want offers but very few are prepared for what happens when they do in fact get one! The first visit example I used was expensive . I vetted the interest with the baseball dept than asked my son " Are you willing to commit if they offer?" He said" Absolutely....in a heart beat"  So, we did it.

Thanks, this is really helpful. Sending you a PM, too.

StrainedOblique posted:

A Legit invite to come on campus and meet the HC and RC is golden. Most schools will not offer kids until they've been on campus. But that does not necessarily mean that they will offer on the spot.

My son was invited as a rising JR to a school out of state under the same pretense. What I did is I phoned the RC and explained that while my son was excited about the visit , there were serious costs involved. Therefor I needed to know where he was at on ' the board' . He told me he was 3rd at his position. I then asked what his time frame was on offers for the guys at the top or in the top 3 . He said they were actively considering offers on all three players. That was good enough for me . We flew out and did the visit. They didn't offer at that time but it was a great experience for my son. FYI I normally did not phone RC's . The kid talks to them. But when it comes to money or costs like that it is perfectly fine for a parent to call and in this particular case vet the interest.

Another unofficial visit with a HC and RC my son did was sort of local . Maybe an hour and a half drive away. I took my soon there . Dropped him off at the baseball dept and made my way to the financial aid building . FYI: That is your role as a parent. Figure out the net gap costs of attendance. Meet the people there and ask questions . I met up with my son and the HC and staff at lunch. They offered at lunch. They said he was the number 1 player at his position on the infamous 'board' and they made a very attractive and flattering offer. My son really liked the school and was tempted to shake the HC's hand and accept but we had discussed earlier that if an offer was extended he was to thank the HC and tell him he would need to give it serious thought . I actually think he said " I need to talk to my mom" which I thought was perfect.

He did not commit to either school. He ended up committing to a D1 school in the south.

One last thing. With a 2019 the timing is right but you need to be sure that you do not do any unofficial visits that incur significant costs unless your son is absolutely willing to commit if they offer. All these kids want offers but very few are prepared for what happens when they do in fact get one! The first visit example I used was expensive . I vetted the interest with the baseball dept than asked my son " Are you willing to commit if they offer?" He said" Absolutely....in a heart beat"  So, we did it.

Great info in this thread.  I have a question on the financial side of things.  When you meet with the financial aid dept or the coaches, do they give you a pretty good idea of where you stand for academic scholarships based on the GPA and ACT/SAT scores?  For example say the school is 50k and baseball offers 15k,  say the kid has a 3.7 and a 27 ACT, do you leave there with a good idea of how much academic money he will get? 

With regard to schools and the "academic money".....you can usually find what they offer on their website.  Trust me, it's not always right out in the open....and in fact, sometimes it's almost impossible to find, but it's there.  They will show academic money based on grades/ACT, etc.  I'm fairly certain (at least at state schools) that those numbers are pretty well set in stone.   When the RC offered my son, he already knew his ACT & GPA.  He offered over the phone and essentially said "we can give you XXX in baseball money and you'll get XXX in academic money....so you will be getting XXX total".....and it's exactly what he got.  The academic money was exactly what we had expected based on the info on the website.  He probably could have gotten more baseball money but we were very happy with the "total" offer and he accepted it during the call. 

Unofficial visits can be easy, and help you determine if there is mutual interest, as well as refine your son's concepts of what he might want in a college and not just a baseball team.  We always tried to see schools on our way to or from or while at baseball tournaments.  

Son looked at Emory for example while at 16uWWBA, and at that time had never even heard of the school.  Did not contact the coaches there to meet, but for other schools, he let the coach know we would be visiting and when they made an effort, we knew there was some interest.  At one Ivy, he was actually meeting with coaches in his other sport, when we suggested he should call the baseball coach.  They had showed no interest and had never answered his emails he had sent.  So he called and the coach told us to come to his office...we did and the HC spent almost 2 hours last summer with son (2017), letting him know he was out of likely letters but if he could get in on his own, he could play there and he would guarantee all fall at a minimum.  We would never have had that info otherwise.  

Some schools that we knew he was not interested in (as he was looking high academic) we did "drive by" visits when his summer travel team played on campus.  Even when not interested, it helped form a picture -- he liked enclosed campuses that were not open to all walking around, liked green space on campus, liked proximity of baseball fields/gym, etc.  Unofficial visits can be to your local or nearby schools that might not be of interest but can help define what your son wants.

Iowa has Private College Week, a week in August when all the private schools in the state hold basically open houses. We did what I called "practice visits" to those — gave son an idea of what he liked and what he didn't like that I think was helpful, even though he doesn't plan to attend those schools.

As for grades and financial aid, we had one school that had us talk to their NCAA compliance officer on academic aid since there are rules about how that works alongside of athletic money. I'm finding now that that balance isn't as cut and dried as I thought it would be. I thought it was all laid out by the NCAA, but some schools have said my son will get academic aid on top of baseball money, while others say he needs a higher ACT consolidated score for that to happen.

Bottom line, what I'm learning is nothing is easy or always clear.

Fenway said it the best.  I completely agree.  My guys each did 30+ visits to schools as mentioned on the "how do you go about visiting facilities?" thread.  Over time of course, not just in one Summer.

For my D1 guy, the OV was after he had committed.  Almost every school offering him did so before his Senior HS year began.  And he had visited most of these "unofficially" in the year or two prior with many of those being invited by the coaches to come out. 

For my D3 guy, doing the UV's was very important in expressing interest in advance to the coaches and Admissions reps at those schools.  Once his list had narrowed, he interviewed with Admissions at each school and we always met with the coaches.  

The recruiting timeline seems to move up earlier and earlier.  We found visiting schools "unofficially" over holidays, Spring and Summer breaks, etc., to be very helpful in creating my boys' targeted list of colleges. 

And if a coach asked one of my guys to UV, we did as others have noted.  "Very interested.  Would love to visit school XYZ.  Where do I stand on your list at this stage?" 

Fenway nailed it. (as usual) We did ~20 UV and two OV. The OV's were a long way away and late in the process so the schools chipped in.  We made multiple mini-vacations and tied visits together with schools in an area. Most coaches were amazingly supportive even during Christmas breaks when no one was around, some came in to meet us. (some did not)

Remember: They are in selling mode and as my wife says "baseball coaches are a bunch of used car salesmen". Until it is in writing, it is just a bunch of hot air. 

Twoboys: Emory is an outstanding school and has a very good baseball program. (actually most of their sports programs are strong) My son told me he wished he had looked into them as an option. We completely blew the DIII opportunities...because we just did not know much about it. 

It's not always 20 or 30 visits. One of my son's teammates did just one D1 UV and committed on the spot.  

My son did a grand total of 2.

Wow, this is great information! Thank you for all the responses. I would never had guessed that kids did 20 UVs . . . I suppose it makes sense, how else are you going to get a feel for the school? But for the out-of-state schools that could get expensive fast.

2019DAD it was not really that hard depending on where you live and program levels you are looking at and if you plan it properly. East and West Coasts it's not a problem, but through the Central part of the country it could add up, but if planned you could do an East and West trip and easily cover 20 schools. Some visits were 2-3 hrs and then off to the next school. I think Fenway's no 2 son did a "play in school" bus tour that took kids to a whole bunch of schools in a couple of days. If he sees this he can chime in regarding it. 

d-mac posted:

StrainedOblique posted:

A Legit invite to come on campus and meet the HC and RC is golden. Most schools will not offer kids until they've been on campus. But that does not necessarily mean that they will offer on the spot.

My son was invited as a rising JR to a school out of state under the same pretense. What I did is I phoned the RC and explained that while my son was excited about the visit , there were serious costs involved. Therefor I needed to know where he was at on ' the board' . He told me he was 3rd at his position. I then asked what his time frame was on offers for the guys at the top or in the top 3 . He said they were actively considering offers on all three players. That was good enough for me . We flew out and did the visit. They didn't offer at that time but it was a great experience for my son. FYI I normally did not phone RC's . The kid talks to them. But when it comes to money or costs like that it is perfectly fine for a parent to call and in this particular case vet the interest.

Another unofficial visit with a HC and RC my son did was sort of local . Maybe an hour and a half drive away. I took my soon there . Dropped him off at the baseball dept and made my way to the financial aid building . FYI: That is your role as a parent. Figure out the net gap costs of attendance. Meet the people there and ask questions . I met up with my son and the HC and staff at lunch. They offered at lunch. They said he was the number 1 player at his position on the infamous 'board' and they made a very attractive and flattering offer. My son really liked the school and was tempted to shake the HC's hand and accept but we had discussed earlier that if an offer was extended he was to thank the HC and tell him he would need to give it serious thought . I actually think he said " I need to talk to my mom" which I thought was perfect.

He did not commit to either school. He ended up committing to a D1 school in the south.

One last thing. With a 2019 the timing is right but you need to be sure that you do not do any unofficial visits that incur significant costs unless your son is absolutely willing to commit if they offer. All these kids want offers but very few are prepared for what happens when they do in fact get one! The first visit example I used was expensive . I vetted the interest with the baseball dept than asked my son " Are you willing to commit if they offer?" He said" Absolutely....in a heart beat"  So, we did it.

Great info in this thread.  I have a question on the financial side of things.  When you meet with the financial aid dept or the coaches, do they give you a pretty good idea of where you stand for academic scholarships based on the GPA and ACT/SAT scores?  For example say the school is 50k and baseball offers 15k,  say the kid has a 3.7 and a 27 ACT, do you leave there with a good idea of how much academic money he will get? 

Yes , On a UV , as a parent you wanna hand the kid off to the baseball dept and go to financial aid and do all this . You will have an exact number or as exact as they can estimate based on the current info. Transcripts, Family Income , Etc

When visiting a school and after meeting with RC or HC, many time the coach can do a pre-read for financial/merit aid.  Typically you will be handed a form to fill out and return to the coach.  They then will submit to their liaison at financial aid and  give you either an official or unofficial projection.

Somewhat related UV question:

If a kid is a two-way player and on the UV (after meeting with the HC) it is the position/hitting coach who takes him on a tour of the campus, is it a fair read that the school is more interested in him as a position player? (position/hitting coach was not definitive when asked, give kids a chance to play both ways, etc., etc.)

2019Dad posted:

Somewhat related UV question:

If a kid is a two-way player and on the UV (after meeting with the HC) it is the position/hitting coach who takes him on a tour of the campus, is it a fair read that the school is more interested in him as a position player? (position/hitting coach was not definitive when asked, give kids a chance to play both ways, etc., etc.)

Possibly but not necessarily.  Maybe that coach is the RC or primary assistant.  This is definitely a question you want to ask the HC before making any decisions...  "where do you see me fitting/contributing and when?"

Thanks Cabbage. HC asked son which one he wanted to do.

As I understand it, the appropriate response is "wherever I can help the team, coach!"

2019Dad posted:

Thanks Cabbage. HC asked son which one he wanted to do.

As I understand it, the appropriate response is "wherever I can help the team, coach!"

And that is a great answer but it is also the perfect setup for the second part... "where do you see me helping the most?"  

2019Dad posted:

Thanks Cabbage. HC asked son which one he wanted to do.

As I understand it, the appropriate response is "wherever I can help the team, coach!"

<position player of course>

What is your favorite position, young man?

The one that gets me in the lineup to tear the cover off the ball with a bat!

lol

Wouldn't this situation be a little different?  What if the kid wants to pitch in college?  Or what if the kid wants to be a position player and not pitch?  I think this is a situation where you would want full disclosure.  

For instance my kid wants to pitch!!  If a college is looking at him as a position player and not a pitcher than it would not be a good fit for my son.  

You make a good point, Real Green. And my son did not give that scripted answer I wrote above!

As explained to me unofficial visits are welcomed by coaching staff because they are not restricted. If the staff is seriously interested in you, they will cover everything from tour of facilities, schedules, dorms,and a visit to the academic department.

Official visits are restricted to D1 to 25. That visit usually happens these days after the NLI is signed.  

This is the usual and customer practice.

If a player receives a PROSPECT camp invitation, those are sent to recruits that they have serious in. 

TPM posted:

As explained to me unofficial visits are welcomed by coaching staff because they are not restricted. If the staff is seriously interested in you, they will cover everything from tour of facilities, schedules, dorms,and a visit to the academic department.

If a player receives a PROSPECT camp invitation, those are sent to recruits that they have serious in. 

 

So we have a couple of UV's planned in the next couple of weeks and have been arguing if we need to set up a visit through admissions as well as the meeting with the coach. This seems to suggest no?

Is it normal for PROSPECT camps to be free? Son got invited to one of these at a nearby D2 and all they asked for was an insurance form — I think his first ever completely free baseball activity?

On a UV I would contact the admissions dept and set up a tour.  Yes the coaches may give you a summary but the tour will may give a better overall feel from the tour guide who is typically a student.

Iowamom23 posted:

TPM posted:

As explained to me unofficial visits are welcomed by coaching staff because they are not restricted. If the staff is seriously interested in you, they will cover everything from tour of facilities, schedules, dorms,and a visit to the academic department.

If a player receives a PROSPECT camp invitation, those are sent to recruits that they have serious in. 

 

So we have a couple of UV's planned in the next couple of weeks and have been arguing if we need to set up a visit through admissions as well as the meeting with the coach. This seems to suggest no?

Is it normal for PROSPECT camps to be free? Son got invited to one of these at a nearby D2 and all they asked for was an insurance form — I think his first ever completely free baseball activity?

I don't think they can give away free camps

Camps can be free if everyone is free in D2 as far as I know.

I believe that they will make sure that someone will be able to speak to you regarding academics, not necessarily admissions.  I guess its different depending on the program.

good advice...my son has a couple UV scheduled.

Here's a weird one — son invited to a prospect camp. School is asking for a physical done in the last six months. He's always done his just before basketball season, but now will have to do one early — even though most insurance companies only pay for one per year.

Anyone encountered that?

@IowaMom: We had to do that extra physical for a camp as well a few years back. I explained it to the medical group and they had an NP do the quick BP, height/weight, etc. No extra charge. 

Just an FYI....an invitation to a "Prospect Camp".....does not necessarily mean they are interested....heck, my son received prospect camp invites from schools all over the eastern half of the country....and we had never contacted or been contacted by 90% of them.  They are typically more $$$$ makers for the program than they are to find players

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Just an FYI....an invitation to a "Prospect Camp".....does not necessarily mean they are interested....heck, my son received prospect camp invites from schools all over the eastern half of the country....and we had never contacted or been contacted by 90% of them.  They are typically more $$$$ makers for the program than they are to find players

Depends on the program. Some coaches have very small camps with the kids that have shown interest in program and meet the criteria they are looking for.