Upton Slide

If he interfered with the second baseman and was correctly called on it, how could it be a great slide?

This has nothing to do with the umps call but He is a rookie and I hear there are also unwritten laws that rookies don't take out veteran players.

That call doesn't occur very often. I think A-Rod did one of those against the Red Sox in the last season series.

As a baserunner, I believe you have to go after the fielder in an attempt to break up the double play. And sometimes you have to stretch the limit of what you can get away with.

Therefore, I think it was a great attempt. Albeit, throwing the elbow out made it a little too obvious. So the umpire made a good call.

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
This has nothing to do with the umps call but He is a rookie and I hear there are also unwritten laws that rookies don't take out veteran players.

Do you think the umpire made the call because a rookie went after Matsui? This isn't Michael Jordan getting all the calls.

In the playoffs, you have to go after the guy, who cares who it is. If the veterans don't like it, Upton can get a pitch in the ribs tomorrow night.

No, the ump made the call because it was the right call. The rule is there to give the pivot man SOME protection from bodily harm.
Didn't Upton also have words with the pitcher as he went to 1st base? and didn't the ss have a few words for Upton ?
As far as "players rules" I didn't make up the unwritten law... I don't know how players who break them are treated. Its a guy thing

Wait, the CO shortstop is also a rookie. Is a rookie allowed to have words with a rookie?

Let's see Upton's first at-bat tonight and we'll see how it gets resolved.

Yes
It may not be Upton they go after.

The rule is as follows: (condensed)

7.08
Any runner is out when --

(b) He intentionally interferes with a thrown ball; or hinders a fielder attempting to make a play on a batted ball;
Rule 7.08(b) Comment: A runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not.
If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpire’s judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out.

I think it was the absolute right call because it was so obvious.......I dont think the upton/rookie/matsui thing had anything to do with it.....

OK. We all agree the call was correct. The question is, should the runner 'do it again" in the same situation. biggerpapi, i luv you but I vote no. D'backs were, I believe, four runs down at the time. The 'legal'slide itself caused the second baseman to make an adjustment that would likely have resulted in an off balance throw which means anything could happen at first base. If Mr. Upton had not thrown his elbow up and twisted his body completely around, the D'Backs would have had a runner on third and maybe a runner on first with one out. Instead, with the dead ball call, the D'Backs had runner on second and two outs. Costly rookie mistake, I would say.

TW344

I guess that I was watching something else.

I thought that it was a terrible slide. He almost caught his spikes and could have possibly wrecked his career. Watch his right spike get "caught" right next to the base.

Looks like he was "caught inbetween, i.e., thinking about how to slide and take the fielder out".

Lucky he didn't hurt himself.

Lots of no names on both sides and not much offense....Either team will get SMOKED this year by either Boston or Cleveland.

I'm cheering for the Indians.

Good observations Been. I'm with you on this one.

quote:

Lots of no names on both sides and not much offense...

That's what I love about this game. Lots of no names still playing while the big names are home watching. Just goes to show that baseball is a "team" game.

BTW, I agree with the call.

Right idea, poor technique. I find the Rockies/DBacks no names intringing. It seems good for BB that their management can put competitive teams together for 10's of millions of dollars less then BoSox, Yankees, etc.

How about D'backs trying to stretch a double for the final out of the game WHILE TRAILING BY 4. ?????

Everybody was a No-Name at one point. And the Indians have some youngsters themselves (actually an interesting balance between youth and vets that I'd like to see the Cardinals move toward).

I want to see the Indians in it --- and a sc*ppy, (s c r a p p y is offensive????) hungry WS.

---

The right call was definately made; bad move by Upton. Shame about the jerks in the stands, but there are always a lot of non-baseball-fans at postseason games without a clue as to what they're watching.

I do not normally agree with umpires but they were 100% correct in this call---Upton went after him

Don't be silly, TR, you don't normally agree with anyone

Orlando

You cannot say that---you don't even know me--all you know is a cypberspace poster, not the person

I'm sorry, TR, that was simply a cyber-tease generated by your sentence structure. Hence the winky. I certainly wasn't trying to be rude.

Little Friday humor that didn't work.

Reminds me of the Marlins, the no names are now big names, making bigger paychecks on teams who can afford them. ex. Josh Beckett.

Those no names if they do well, will all find themselves on big name teams come FA. They also increase their trade value. All it takes is a playoff or a chance to play in the championship game.

I say here's to the no names! Gotta love it!

That's right...some No Name has done quite well for himself...for decades!

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
Yes
It may not be Upton they go after.

Who would they go after?

It appeared to be a LATE, HARD slide, and his momentum did the rest

With the sliding rules being different in the pros vs high school and college where you have to go into the base vs being able to touch the base, it is a common practice and even a requirement from the team mates to breakup the double play, what could Upton have done better?

I don’t think the flying arm was that much of the problem vs the tumble roll. It did look like he was in between deciding to take-out the second baseman and making contact with the bag. He should have tried to slide toward the second baseman and tagged the base with his trailing right hand. Having is arm up to overturn the second baseman could have been allowed as trying to protect himself.

My take ...

I was surprised to hear our son say it was a good slide AND that the umpire was correct in his call. But what do I know.***


Orlando ...
I thought your cybertease was funny

Tripledad ...

quote:

How about D'backs trying to stretch a double for the final out of the game WHILE TRAILING BY 4. ?????

I don't think Monty (Miguel Montero) was trying to stretch the double, I think he just overslid 2nd base and unfortunately paid for it by getting caught 'off base' as it were.

I am still hoping for a Dbacks' recovery but we all know they aren't going to win on their offense. They were outscored by 20 runs in the regular season and had the lowest team batting average, but still, somehow, managed to win their division. But if they don't advance, I will be happy to cheer for the Rockies because (1) they are a National League team and (2) I think they are as talented as they are 'hot' right now.

***Edited by myself to take out the harsh tone of my comments. Took note of what PGStaff has said later in this thread and removing the negative comments here and deleted my other post.

As long as he stays low he would have been fine... he came up off the ground into the fielder and that forced the umps hand.

It wasn't much of a double play ball really and just a decent take-out slide would have prevented a double play; and they were trailing so I think it was a bonehead play by the baserunner... rookied MLB or Junior Varsity high school; he made a bad play.

I had not seen Upton play before other than ESPN highlights. I was disappointed. I hope his ego is not getting the better of him. He acted punkish when he was hit by an off speed pitch and acted as if he was entitled to something when arguing with the umpire at second base. I thought it was a borderline dirty slide frankly and resulted from him still acting like a baby over being hit. I don't care if he is the most highly rated player on the planet. Regardless of what his ego may be telling him, he is not doing anyone a favor by gracing us with his presence on the ball field

I have seen one of his contemporaries play several times - Camron Maybin and have been much more impressed thus far both from a talent and professional standpoint.

As a local fan I can tell you that the Dbacks make hustle mistakes all of the time. It is part of their philosophy to play harder than anybody else.
Kurt Gibson is the base running coach and they all feed from that.

It is better to make a mistake busting your tail on this team than just running it out and staying safe. Gibby will eat you alive.

On the attitude side for Upton, he has made his share of mistakes. Usually O-Dog or Clark take care of it when they get in the dugout. I can't tell you how many times this year I have seen a mental mistake made on the field and then when the camera follows the player to the dugout he is met by Clark or Orlando and the conversation begins. They are team leaders with a capital T.

Both of those guys are going to make great managers.

CD, great comments, great slide by upton, great call by umpire....only additional comment on this issue is Upton just needs to play the game, shut his mouth and play the game....I totally agree that Maybin is a class act !

I appreciate the conversation we're having about "immature behavior." It's a never-ending battle with my kids about keeping your game face on.

However, no one has yet mentioned the AZ "fans" throwing stuff on the field?

Regardless of the size of his ego, it surprises me that he doesn't show more humility at such a young age on such a big stage. Maybe with all the praise showered upon him he feels a sense of entitlement.
Who knows?

I'm fairly certain that we know Justin Upton better than most anyone else on this board. Cameron Maybin, too!

They are both outstanding human beings with freak like athletic ability and baseball tools.

Both come from great families and have great dads who have taught them well.

CD,

You said you have never seen Upton play until last night. He’s playing in the National League finals and he’s trying to help his team get to the World Series. I highly doubt he gives a darn about his ego at this point… He wants to win!

Why start labeling young kids before they even get started! Arguing with an umpire does not qualify someone as an egomaniac!

While these two really don't have behavioral or character issues, as we all know, the MLB has star players (hall of fame types) who have had a problem with character and attitude. I don’t think either Upton or Maybin will be that type. They’re both good kids!

Some saw this play the same as I did… He slid kind of late, knew his job was to break up two, and he went about both the slide and the take out the wrong way. The right call was made. Why does so much more have to be brought to the table?

If we look hard enough, we can find something negative about almost anyone. We should enjoy these young super talented players and watch them for awhile before passing judgment.

I often wonder how parents who post here would feel if their son was the one being mentioned negatively on here. Truth is, Manny Upton (Justin and BJ's Dad) has been on this site at times.

Not arguing about Maybin because he IS a class act, but then again he’s not being labeled here.

Not trying to argue and everyone is welcome to their opinion. Just thought I'd give another view point before the jealous Upton naysayers who appeared on the Virginia Forum before the draft in 2005 started showing up and piling on.

Whatever we might think... We will find out... Let's just give him a chance to develop, both as a player and a person. He's very talented, but also very young!

PG - I didn't label him for all time but your point on reserving judgment on young players is well taken. I called it like I saw it last night. You left out half of my argument however. More than the second base incident, I did not appreciate his attitude after getting hit by a slow pitch.

I figured you would take exception to my post so I mentioned Maybin for a reason. I saw Maybin hit his first MLB homerun off of Roger Clemens. Maybin humbly ran around the bases without showing anyone up. The next time up, Clemens nearly sawed his arm in half by hitting him in the wrist with a 90 plus mph fastball. IMHO, that was on purpose and said welcome to the big leagues. Maybin took first base and stayed in the game after some treatment from the trainer. There was no attitude displayed although I was upset with Clemens for what he did and considered it a dirty move on his part. I don't see where Upton's situation was even close to this yet he showed attitude and I believe it carried over into the second base incident. There is no rule that says I have to like that. I appreciate that 20 year olds can make mistakes and also that one incident does not define a career.

PS - so that I don't seem holier-than-thou, I am 47 years old and definitely know all too well that I still make too many mistakes. I have no problem giving the benefit of the doubt to a very promising 20 year old

you have to like the fact that he is willing to go in hard with the game on the line,but the call was correct

you cant pop up,and you cant extend your arm

If I may allow me to add a bit to what PG posted.
We played against the Uptons as well as Maybin and found them to be great competitors not to mention excellent baseball players as well a fine young men with super parents

I find it sad that the thread is about the slide being legal or not and it turns into a "SLAM THE KID" post because some do not lo like his "attitude".

Personally I like some "attitude" in our players--- by the way "attitude' does not always mean dirty or cocky

I like the way Upton plays the game…. Good call blue.

Ty Cobb would have been proud!

"Few names have left a firmer imprint upon the stages of the history of American times than that of Ty Cobb. For a quarter of a century his aggressive exploits on the diamond, while inviting opposition as well as acclaim, brought high drama. This great athlete seems to have understood from early in his professional career that the competition of baseball, just as in war, defensive strategy never has produced ultimate victory." ~ General Douglas MacArthur

"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded man. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out. It's a struggle for supremacy, survival of the fittest." ~ Ty Cobb Hall of Fame Player 1905-1928, Manager

We talked about this at dinner yesterday with son. In his opinion, he's playing the game as he should be playing in a play off game, hard and tough.

Part of the reason why he is where he is, besides his tools, his personality, has a lot to do with why he was drafted #1. You do need attitude in this game.