UUNDERCLASS Events - are they worth the investment?

First thing---at what level is your son playing in high school---that is key

I don't know about other event organizers but PG's underclass showcases and events are well worth the cost. So many parents will tell you the same thing.

I would imagine some are better than others, but for us, that was a very important step in his junior year.

I was recently contacted about my son playing on a 16U team (as a fifteen year old) based out of an academy that plays high level tournaments including PG showcases. I've had my eye on this facility. I think it's a possible avenue at the right time. But I thought it was kind of silly to recruit a fourteen year old kid who hasn't made varsity yet, just because he's been an excellent 14U player. I'm more interested in how my son stacks up against 18U players when the time is right.

I went to the site and checked out profiles and rankings. Not one kid, no matter how early he started attending (they'll do evals for 13U) was rated below "marginal D1." How can they know this with a kid before he plays at the high school level. I see it as marketing and a money grab for younger players.

Flying Dutchman - The PG underclass events are worth it for talented mature underclassmen who want to be nationally recruited. Is your son one of those? These are well run events which allow colleges to track your son over a few years, noting potential and improvement. Go to the PG website and find out about the rating process and read about other players who were rated in previous years. I believe TRhit asked the perceptive question about where your son plays now because he wanted to make sure he wasn't a kid who barely made his freshman team, but instead is a varsity player. If he is not ready physically or mentally, save your money and wait until he is.

I have been to the PG Underclass showcase in Ft Myers several times.

I dont really care that much about the ratings and who sees him.

I do care about getting him to play against excellent talent - and having a memorable time.

Every time I have gone to this event - it has been awesome. Well organized - great talent - and alot of fun.

quote:

Originally posted by itsinthegame:
I have been to the PG Underclass showcase in Ft Myers several times.

I dont really care that much about the ratings and who sees him.

I do care about getting him to play against excellent talent - and having a memorable time.

Every time I have gone to this event - it has been awesome. Well organized - great talent - and alot of fun.

Amen sir. We went once...and had a blast. First time on a big stage with and against lots of really good players, lots of 15-16 yo future draft picks. I was surprised at the large number of west coast and Texas kids. Wall to wall behind the backstops all weekend and so well run with excellent coaches like Bruce and Tyson Kimm. Playing well there is awesome and so valuable, in many ways. Go if you can. A very positive experience.

If your son is a varsity contributor in his high school program, then I think you should at least consider the underclass event (I will assume its a PG event)for the following reasons:
- chance to play against some great competition;
- a chance to establish a "benchmark" and find out areas where he needs to improve;
- a chance to get used to the PG showcase atmosphere and how they are conducted (so that when he is a senior he will be as comfortable as possible);

PG runs a tight ship and I believe you will be pleased with how it is run. Yes....it IS pricey. But, do really want your son to go to the "cheapest" showcase?

The most important thing that I found with showcases is how son perceived himself in relation to his peers.
It should be a part of the goals that are set for playing after HS.
If a player is interested in playing close to home local showcases serve the purpose of how you compare to those in your geographical area. If your player is interested in playing somewhere else, a national showcase or tournament is where you should go. We were lucky because many events are here in Florida, with players coming from all over the country.
PG's ratings are based on future potential, I am not sure how everyone else does it. It helps give direction to where your son should focus if he wants son to play after HS. Their ratings, I have heard, are pretty accurate.

JMO.

My son wanted to go to one of PG's underclass events because he wanted to see where he stacked up against the other players at the event. He also wanted to see what the showcase deal was all about to get his feet wet so to speak. He attended the PG Atlantic Coast Underclass Showcase at Duke. It was a great experience for him. Also you get evaluated by people who evaluate players for a living. He has played in numerous WWBA events they are without a doubt the best tournements we have ever attended. The competition is unmatched, period.

Coach May - in addition to the Underclassmen events - I have been to PG Qualifiers - PG Jupiter tournaments - PG Regionals in East Cobb and PG showcases

Every single one of them were well run - had great talent - and we enjoyed the heck out of them.

That is all that really mattered to me.

A couple of others touched upon it, but unless your son is a absolute stud (especially a pitcher) that wants to be recruited on a larger scale, No it is not worth the investment.

My son, who is currently a freshman at a D1, attended a PG underclass event as a soph. He was rated reasonably well, not a stud. We never received any contact from any school based upon his attending this event. We did receive lots of offers to attend other showcase events.

Your key question was whether it was worth the investment. Yes they are very well run and there was some outstanding talent as well as a lot lesser so. But it is not an investment that will probably pay you back.

Aside from being a great excuse to escape to Florida in December, attending the PG National Underclass as a sophomore did two important things for my son.

First, as mentioned before he got to see where he stacked up with some of the better players in the country. He did well however more importantly he saw what he was going to be up against to be considered a top level player. He left with a clear understanding that he had to keep working at his game to reach his goals.

Secondly, being from up north it was a great opportunity for him to try to get on the “prospect” radar screen. While players from our area are getting better exposure now, I do feel that unless you put yourself out there to be seen a player can get lost in shuffle sitting at home waiting for a school to find you. While you may not see a lot of schools at the underclass events trust me when I tell you that they hear all about a player if they have game.


Great advice so far. Bottom line if your son is one of the better players in your area why not take a chance and test the waters.

Good Luck!

I guess it comes down to how you define investment and what your expectations are.

Every trip to some baseball event is an investment.

My expected return on my investment is good competition - a well run tournament and a smile or two from my son after it is over.

Well I guess I need to add a little more. My son attended the PG Underclass Nationals. He also attended the PG National Event. My son was contacted by numerous college coaches based on being seen at both these events. He was offered by four different schools based on his performance at these events. I did not think he played very well. But they saw him catching numerous guys throwing low to mid 90's. They saw him hit with wood against several guys throwing low to mid 90's. The fact is he had several options based on his performance at PG events that he would have never had. When you get a chance to play with the best and against the best you get a chance to show you can play with them or you cant play with them. If your goal is to go to a top level college program you need to test yourself against the type of players they are going to go after. Over 300 college coaches were at the PG national event in Cincy. Having the opportunity to create more options or maybe even create one option - yeah it was more than worth it to my son. Let me just say this - I personally feel that attending the WWBA events ran by PG and attending the showcase events ran by PG were huge in my son having more options. And he is not a pitcher.

Coach May, but we all know your son is a stud.

For the average to above average position player, I'm not sure that it is worthwhile. Money is better spent on lessons or school specific camps.

That said, if you go to a showcase and play above your normal level, it might help. I've known a few players that were probably not as good as they showed and got some outstanding offers.

The nationals may have more kick to them.

I usually don’t like to get involved in these discussions, but this one means a lot to me and it’s often misunderstood by many.

First of all there are many players we’ve seen at the Underclass events and been very impressed. Then there have been a few of these players who have gotten injured during that critical time between Junior and Senior seasons. Had we not seen them earlier, we wouldn’t have known just how much talent they have. Each year there are a few Aflac All Americans we select based on what we saw in them as a sophomore and/or even as a freshman. More important is that many of these players are well known because they were noticed before they got injured. So college and even draft opportunities are still there.

But that’s not the main reason we started doing underclassmen events. It has always been my belief that in scouting you can never have too much information.

Here is a true story…

A few years back Dan Jennings was the scouting director for the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. He’s now a VP with the Marlins and will end up being a GM sometime soon. Dan called me one day about a different subject and I told him we were going to start doing Underclass events for juniors, sophomores, and even younger. His response was… “You guys just trying to make more money or what?” I said “Yes, but that’s not the main reason. We want to start a file compiling information on the top players while they’re younger” He then asked, “ Why, we don’t care about players that young, we’re only interested in the kids who we want to draft.” I said, “Well, you should care!” Dan asked “Why?” I told him… “I’ll give you an example. (This may not be the same example I gave, but it was close) Lets say you are wondering which pitcher among two you think are equal you should select first. Pitcher A was 5’8/145 as a 15 year old and threw 75 mph and pitcher B was 6’1/185 and threw 85 mph. At 16 years old, pitcher A was 5’10/165 and threw 80 mph and pitcher B was 6’2/195 and threw 88 mph. Then at age 17 pitcher A was 6’2/185 and throw 85 mph while pitcher B was 6’2/200 throwing 90 mph. Then now they are draft eligible and 18 years old. Pitcher A is 6’2/200 throwing 90 mph and pitcher B is identical in every way and also 6’2/200 throwing 90 mph. If you look at the history of these two, who would you say will be better next year? Who is most likely to still grow some? Who projects better between these two? Which would you guess would have the better work ethic and makeup based on this information? They really aren’t that equal once you look at the history.” Dan said exactly this… “ Jerry, I think you guys are on to something here!”

BTW, He has sent both his sons to those underclass events and so has Roy Clark the Atlanta Braves Scouting Director and so have many others who are major league scouts as well as college coaches sent their sons.

And now every year, we get requests from MLB scouting departments for the complete history on specific draft prospects. We even get requests from some top college programs.

All that said, if a young boy is not very good, I completely agree with “Dooer”. Money is better spent on instruction! While we might give a pointer or two, we are not there to teach them how to play!

Example well taken, but you only have the information or statistics of those that you can measure, the ones that are at your event. Of those that cannot be there for many reasons, given health, transporation, finances, you are only gathering your data based on the participants; for instance the major league sons that you site, that perhaps can afford to go to many of these showcases and their data can be compiled over a period of time.This does not mean that you have compiled the data of the highest achievers regardless of the ability/afordability of the very best players to be included in this equation, more like the best players that could afford to be there over a period of time is how this data is compiled. Not all players have the ways or the means to be included in this data and so I feel it is somewhat skewed. I am sorry, but if scouts can't find the talent except what is handed to them in a series of tournaments and showcases - which of course makes it easier for them - then shame on them if they are not out there looking in everyball park in every corner of our country. They are only hurting the game by taking the easy road (although never of their roads are easy - it is tough no matter what and a killer job for most). I would just hope in a perfect baseball world that no one that considers him/herself a scout would rely soley on showcases to evaluate the level of talent in an area. I would hope they would dig just a little deeper, you never know what you might find.

Iheartbb,

Hope I didn’t make it sound mandatory or something. Just trying to explain some of the advantages. The disadvantage of course is the cost. It sounds like you know more about us than we do. Not many scouts attend the underclass events anyway. They just have an interest in the information. BTW... There are good scouts all over the country who I assure you are working very hard covering every area and there are still some kids who are missed every year. The bottom line IMO is you can wait and hope they find you or you can go out and find them.

We are aware of the fact that we will not see everyone. We're happy if we just know about all the top players. But what we do see is well documented. It might cost money to attend certain events, but money has nothing to do with what we think of a player. We report on lots of players who have never paid us a thing.

BTW, more than 2 out of every 3 draft picks last year were among the group you mentioned... "You are only gathering your data based on the participants" (It’s going to be that way again next year) Guess you could say that we didn’t have quite as much info on one out of three. But you can rest assured that we do have a lot of data on just about every high draft pick over the past 10-15 years. I would venture a guess that those players were in fact the highest achievers. A large number of them we first saw as underclassmen. Some of them couldn’t afford it either, but when there is a will there is a way. Of those players we select for the Aflac Game (all are underclassmen when selected) more than one out of each four has become a “first round” draft pick.

I wasn’t looking for a debate, just trying to explain a few things regarding the topic. There are many events where we see players and they don’t pay us a dime.

I believe doing a PG event is a great way to generate exposure. Of course, if your son is 17 and throwing 72 MPH it is a silly investment. But if your son has potential--maybe is not there yet but shows promise--it is a great way to get the name out there.

My son did a PG underclass national and only did so-so.. got a 6.5. As a smaller LHP he didn't score so great. But I don't look at it as a "lost investment" and I'm certainly not bitter. I remain a pro-PG guy. We had a great time and saw some great players that enabled my son to "see the next level". He trained even harder--knowing what the best had and wanting to get closer to their talent level--and made a big jump in velo and will be pitching D1 after graduating.

And that's what I tell people that ask about PG and similar events. If your son has potential, do them. Why? #1) It is a wonderful common experience you can share with your son that will create memories, #2) How can you aspire to the "next level" if you can't see it and define it?
You won't see this type of talent in the local high school league. See it, define your weaknesses in relation to the "studs" and resolve to not only catch them but leave them in your dust.

For those that question whether it is worth their time to do a PG event or similar event it is my suspicion they are secretly afraid their son is not that good and can't compete, and that is incorrect thinking because each kid develops along different timelines.

Nice post Bum. Very nice post!

iheartbb,

How did your son get into his present college? What exposure did he get? If it was limited do yo think with his talent he could have gone further with more exposure?

I am not sure of your goals, but ours was to find the best program that offered the best opportunity for son, in state or out of state. My son's recruiting coach "discovered" him his junior fall in Jupiter. He followed his progress for many months after that. He went out to PG National to see him play, where he offered him an opportunity in early June ( yes folks he got early offers)though he didn't commit until september.

As PG states, it is not mandatory. Mine only attended two PG showcases and 3 WWBA plus qualifiers, all attended by college coaches and many, many scouts without breaking the bank. As I have said living in FL gave great exposure, so most likely if from another state we would have done more and we woul dhave had to spend more. But one WWBA, opened up a huge door for him, gave an opportunity to work with a great pitching coach, attend a great school with a great bb program with a great scholarship and drafted this year second round.

And my son has no dad in MLB.

Though he has talent and would have gotten good opportunities, would it have been the one that helped be the catalyst that got him to this point today?

I understand your points, that is why I say to parents just beginning the process, it's important to make a plan. If you have limited funds, spend them wisely. If you feel lessons are more important, that's ok, but you must use those improvements to obtain goals, and just playing on a HS field just doesn't cut it anymore, IMO. Yes it is the job of a MLB player to search every corner of the US to find the best talent, and they usually do find it, you do not have to attend a showcase for that. But IMO, I would rather my son be somewhere where all 30 teams can see him, not just a few, that opens up more opportunities for the draft.

This post is about underclass showcases, which I think are very different then showcases between Jr. and Sr. years.

Yes, they are both run the same, so the experience is possibly worth while, but unless you are a stud, a regional showcase is probably not worth the money if you are on a limited budget.

If you have no budget restraints, by all means attend every event you can. They are fun and great experiences.

quote:

Originally posted by Dooer:
This post is about underclass showcases, which I think are very different then showcases between Jr. and Sr. years.

According to my understanding, anything below senior year is considered underclass. If this is incorrect, PG can I have my money back? My son's first showcase was as a JUNIOR at an underclass showcase, he could have attended an upperclass event as well, but we felt more 04's would be at the underclass event. The object was to have him rated with the ones he would be graduating with, but that waws our plan.

The topic was about an 09 (JUNIOR) attending an undercalss event, so we haven't strayed from the original topic.

I don't think I am the one confused.

Please accept my apology. I normally equate underclass showcases to prior the start of their Jr. season.

Like I said, my son attended a PG-CA underclass showcase prior to his Jr. season. There were many younger ballplayers there as well.

This was a winter showcase and of course there were no college coaches in attendance. We still had a great time, but we never received any communication from a institution of higher learning as a result of his attendance. That was my point.

TR,
What level he's playing at in HS can be fairly meaningless. I've seen players in our area on JV as juniors who would be stars on the varsity at most other schools (The varsity team was nationally ranked and the JVs went undefeated). We've also had kids on varsity who wouldn't be given the time of day at a showcase as well as players who were highly regarded at showcases who didn't make varsity as juniors while much weaker players did.

Thanks to all for your replies...

PGSTAFF - your post(s) made it very clear as to the purpose of the UNDERCLASS event... Thanks for the honesty and for taking the time to educate your customers....

My son did start as a soph for his varsity team. The starting lineup consisted of 5 seniors, 3 juniors and my son as a sophmore... He hit in the 7-9 holes and played the outfield when he was not on the bump...

Is he a stud? - No he's not a stud, at 16 he is 6'4" (nearing 6'5") , 170 pounds and throws 82-84 with a solid change and nice curve and improves with every outing.... He runs a 4.7 - 40 yd and 6.7 - 60 yd..

His Fall Scout Team's been playing some of the best Showcase teams in the Mid-Atlantic area this fall... Teams loaded with 2008 committed Div 1 position players... This has instilled a great deal of passion in my son to attain the same level of play as these players... Playing against the very best competition builds "grit" - a very important quality IMHO...

I know he can play with the Underclassmen, there's never been a doubt in my mind or his.... We just have to determine if the Underclass is the best fit for us....

One thing's for sure, I won't cheat my son out of any opportunities - you get to do this only once and he's worked way too hard....

I hope others with similiar questions about the Underclass events will find this thread....

Mr. Dutchman, your son is nearing stud status. A 6.7 60 yard time is phenomenal. His height alone will get him some looks. 82-84 at that age is well above average and with that height and weight, I would think that he would be projectable way up there.

Good Luck,

Some believe you need to be a Varsity player in HS to go to a PG event.
Not True.
Some very talented players never see Varsity in California until there Junior year in HS.
But have the talent to showcase in an underclass event.
It's just the way it is out here sometime's.

Like any tool you use in baseball.
Showcases are a tool to be used to evaluate your talent against other talented players.
How do you stack up.
What do I need to improve on.

Is anything we do in Baseball worth it??
Thats up to each Family to figure out for themselves.
Some have the inside track with contacts and family and friends involved in baseball.
Other's must seek out that advice.

From what i've seen players are picked at an early age for the major HS tournament's. ( AFLAC, Cape Cod, ECT. )
How were they seen, unless they played At a high level at an early age.
EH

EH,

You bring up a very interesting point IMO. And not one that I have really ever had to think about - given the states I have lived in.

The decision making process for the parent (and the player) has to be different in many ways if you play in California - Florida and Texas IMO.

These states have so many players - and so many really good players - I think it must be much more difficult to "stand out" - or to even get a fair chance.
Add to it that alot of these folks have been promoting their kids - with or without good baseball contacts - since they were barely teenagers - and you have one very competitive environment that makes being seen a real challenge.

Perhaps in states with large numbers of baseball players - and large numbers of very talented players - it behooves them to go to the top quality events to get a chance to really show what they have.

I kind of agree with Dooer. I don't know if I would do the UC showcases unless my son was a top prospect (you can get on the PG web-site and see what it takes to be a 9 or 10: i.e. throws 85+, runs 7.0 or below etc.) and was more interested in getting the pro scouts attention than colleges. If you are a top prospect you want to go to get on the radar for all the BIG showcases their senior year. Or if you live close and the cost isn't too great - we don't.

My son is a good player - started on 7A varsity, conf. champ team at 14 as DH and batted .500. Got graded an 8, I think now on his best day he could possibly be a 9.0. He has gotten faster and better and didn't feel like he showed his best stuff batting. But he has gotten NO benefit in college recruiting as a result of the PG showcases. Every person on the roster where he wants to attend (DI-AA school) that has a PG score is a 7.5 or 8.0. Yet his 8.0 and his making the top prospect team at Natl. UC showcase hasn't seemed to matter. Also, keep in mind that at the UC national showcase in December, there are NO college scouts because it is a dead period. We didn't know that - and it cost my son and husband about $2000 to go. Though it is a great event and lots of fun and he was excited to make the top prospect team, I'm not sure it was worth that just to see how he stacked up against the competition. At his level probably would have been better spent at camps.

He did go to a showcase in Atlanta before the Natl. one, and it didn't cost quite as much and he had a good time. From all I have learned since, I wouldn't do the UC showcases, I would go to the event in Jupiter if you can get on a team and know you will get to play. He has been invited to several showcases this (his SR.) year. We have opted not to go, largely b/c of money. Feel it will be better spent targeting the few schools he is interested in attending. But, if I could do it again, I'd skip the UC events and try to go to Jupiter this year. Good Luck.