UVA and VT early commits?

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Originally posted by Emanski's Heroes:

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Originally posted by redbird5:
Tim Kelly, 2012 RHP/OF at York HS, verbals to VT.

redbird,

Are you sure about that? Because I thought VT didn't recruit in Virginia...

Apparently they found 1 kid out of the hundreds that are eligible in VA.

I will say, that this one of the first times I have heard of that Tech got a jump on a recruit. Maybe they read HSBBW.
good for Tech- glad they are coming around.

Of the top 20 kids in the 2012 class in VA, VT has recruited 10 that I know of. I do not have direct knowlege of the other 10.

You guys need to understand something...Coach Hughes' staff made their mark at BC recruiting from certain areas. Regardless of your beliefs, they are not going to waltz into VA and simply start picking up the top kids in the state. They have to prove they can win and have the facilities to match. They are getting there.

At BC, they had relationships with HS and summer programs in certain areas that fed them solid players. They are making great inroads with the same in VA. This does not occur overnight.

I think we all know Hughes has a fondness for the NE. He is here now. Time to adjust and look around. Perhaps get off campus now and then. If not VA players need not attend the $300 camps with hopes of getting notice.

That said, I am glad to hear the staff has actively sought after 2012 VA players. I hope they continue to do so.

Last year was his 4th year. I'd say that is pretty good progress.

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Of the top 20 kids in the 2012 class in VA, VT has recruited 10 that I know o

That is unbelievable....did VT recruit 10 from 2011????

I am not going to get into the debate of whether or not VT recruits in Virginia...of course they do (off the top of my head, they got a great pick up in Chad Pinder last year and Joe Mantiply the year before), but everyone needs to stop making excuses for the staff not having a larger presence in VA recruiting circles. They may not get every top recruit out there, but they sure ought to attend and have a high profile at most if not all top events in the state. That may be happening, but based on the number of posts to the contrary, there is room for improvement.

Let's face it, this is VIRGINIA TECH we're talking about. As I said before, they have the most alumni and largest fan base in the state. Not having "connections" in VA just doesn't cut it. I don't care if it's some guy you've never heard of, if he's representing the Hokies, just about any recruit in VA is going to take an interest. Most kids can't name the baseball coach at more than a couple of schools in the entire country anyway. The name recognition in baseball is with the school and VT certainly has that...couple that with the ACC affiliation and their attitude should be (as it is with football) that they take a backseat to no one in the state. They may be second fiddle to the 'Hoos right now, but that certainly shouldn't show in their recruiting philosophy.

justakid,

I mention 10 of the top 20 2012 kids in VA to show that the information other are providing is inaccurate (with 2012's at least). These are kids I know personally. They also went after most of the Top 20 VA kids. Now, I feel they may not have evaluated some of them properly but they were definitely "on" most of them.

Chris Taylor,

I can tell you that VT is at every major event in the country. Their assistants are there. As a matter of fact, they were the only ACC school at the USA NTIS event in Cary last year, except for Duke, UNC, and Wake (but it was in their back yard). They are out there.

To all,
I don't recall seeing 1 head coach at the WWB Underclass event in Fort Myers this fall so to expect Hughes to be there is crazy - that is what he has assistants for.

Chris and Redbird, I guess it depends on your definition of recruiting. Most of us are not aware of the level of "recruiting" of in state players unless we have a child or player being recruited or are a member of the player's family or school's staff. With that said, actual offers and acceptances (i.e., commitment) are the real measure of success. In the 2011 class, ECU, Marshall and South Carolina "outrecruited" VT and UVA. The 2012 class may be different, but 2011 was a flop.

Either that or UVA and VT did not have the same needs as Marshall...or they didn't like the players Marshall recruited.

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Originally posted by redbird5:
To all,
I don't recall seeing 1 head coach at the WWB Underclass event in Fort Myers this fall so to expect Hughes to be there is crazy - that is what he has assistants for.

Maybe they were at other games. In 2009, at either or both Jupiter or Fort Myers events, I saw at least 3 head coaches - Leoni, Godwin and Tanner. In fact, I have seen Tanner at many, many showcases and events away from USC. Maybe having involvement from the man at the top in the recruiting process off campus helps build a World Series caliber team.

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Originally posted by WB Reporter:
Maybe they were at other games.

They could have been at other games, but I attended many other games as well.

Leoni may have been there. Tanner and Godwin sent assistants. They are recruiting some of our kids and have been at other events but not RSW.

Gentlemen your debate about instate recruiting is one that has been discussed over and over again by parents in other states as well as VA. You all bring up very valid points, however I don’t think any coach would ever deliberately overlook players within their own state.

I believe the recruiting process at VT is no different then it is at any other school, they recruit for their positional needs. If the coaches have the opportunity to see a player (whether from their home state or from another state) and identify him as a potential player the recruiting process begins. Please don’t get me wrong I do not intend to criticize the baseball talent in VA but there is a lot of baseball talent through out this country so why would any coach limit himself to recruiting to one region. In the state of Illinois only ten of the top twenty-five players from the 2010 class are attending Illinois schools and those ten are divided into only four of the Illinois Universities.

My son a 2010 recruit from Illinois is a current player at VT who never participated in any of the Hokie camps and his summer team did not play in VA. I can personally tell you that each of the coaches Hughes, Turgeon, and Gambino were in attendance at showcases or travel games held outside VA. during the recruiting / evaluation process.

Of the thirty-three players listed on this year’s roster there are 10 players from VA. I know that one of the freshman pitchers was recognized after attending one of their camps, sorry but I do not know if any other players on the team were recognized after attending their camps.

Is it possible that UVA has been able to recruit so many instate players due to their success and accomplishments achieved on the baseball field? Either way Coach Hughes has turned the VT baseball program around in four short years and hopefully their recent success will carry over the next several years and will attract more players from the state of VA

Thanks for your time; I enjoy reading your opinions.

BH, don't know about your situation, but it should be easier and less costly for VT and UVA to recruit in state players. They are the largest schools in Virginia with attractive academics and athletics, but, for whatever reason, they passed on the 2011 class. Of the 17 top rated players listed by PG, only two are going in state. My math tells me that is about 11.7%. Of the top 12 rated players, none are going in state. When you consider how good and varied the 2011 class is, those results are really surprising.

With their top six commits (per PG), VT got a third baseman from WI, an outfielder from CT, a left handed pitcher from NY, an outfielder from FL, a first baseman from NJ and a right handed pitcher from IN. With their top six commits, UVA took an outfielder from PA, a left handed pitcher from GA, an outfielder from PA, an infielder from MD, a right handed pitcher from MA and an infielder from VA (Kenny Towns). All of those positions were available in the top ten or twelve players in Virginia (per PG), but not a one is going in state. VT's top recruit is listed by PG at 276. In UVA's defense, their first three commits are very, very good, Derek Fisher (OF) ranked 17 in the country, Kevin Matthews (LHP) at 31 and Mike Papi (OF) at 85.

As to UVA, I think El Gato just made the most important point. They are at a point where they are getting their pick of the litter of PA/OH/NY/NJ. That is McMullens' territory and he owns it. That area is certainly not the baseball talent pool GA or FL or even VA is, but there are outstanding players there and zero elite college programs. There are a handful of kids from this zone every year who are nationally elite and UVA (and UNC) are always in the mix for them. Its not like UVA is passing on in-state kids to sign players of questionable talent from other parts of the country.

They also usually get the vast majority of Virginia kids who they want and who THEY CAN GET IN SCHOOL. An exception from the 2011 class might be a kid like Jake Cave who Im sure UVA would love to have but who is headed to LSU. I'd venture a guess that Cave's draft prospects had something to do with this as well as UVA tends to stear clear of recruiting kids who are likely to be drafted ultra-high.

VT is doing a heck of a job on the field and I think Redbird hit the nail on the head; it takes some time for that to translate into recruiting success in a state like VA with several quality D1 options for in-state players and plenty of talent to go around.

vabaseballfan, Fisher (#17 in the counrty), Matthews (#31) and Papi (#85) may have similar problems, i.e., pro teams interested in their talents.

As far as getting into UVA, that should be no problem. Most of the players have gpa's between 3.0 and 4.0, and, if the school can admit 85 football players, it can admit a few baseball players with similar gpa's.

Baseball has been granted more leeway in recent years at UVA as far as who they can get in school but they still cant come close to football.

I suspect all three players you've listed will get drafted but all three will end up in Charlottesville. Kline was a 6th rd pick and Hultzen went in the 10th even after telling everyone there was zero chance he'd sign. They dont stay away from kids talented enough to be drafted, they stay away from kids who they perceive as wanting to sign. Of course I could be wrong about Papi, Fisher, and Matthews but since O'Connor hasnt lost many to the draft I doubt it.

UVA has lost a couple to the draft over the years but they tend to stay away from guys who have a good chance of going pro. I know they lost one recruit this yr a LHP who went in the 3rd rd to Toronto-Nicolino. They have lost two more I can think of- an OF to the Red Sox who made the show this yr as a 22yr old Ryan Kalish, and a catcher who is flying up the ranks with the Reds Devin Mesoraco(sp?)-1st rd pick in 07. I am sure there are one or two more but for the most part O'Connor has done a great job of avoiding casulties to the draft

I stand corrected. You are right. Thanks for adding.

It is precisely because of having gotten burned that UVA is so very careful.

There have been cases of them committing early to kids they considered "finds" only to have them zoom up the ranks and end up in draft consideration. Kalish was one of those, as was the Hissey boy in 2008. Hultzen was another, but fortunately for UVA he and his family were determined that he go to school first.

When you look at UNC, you can see what happens when you just sign kids without considering the draft risk. They went a few years in a row with their top 6 recruits all signing pro. The result was that in 2010 they didn't make the ACC tourney field. They'd've been a different team with Porcello, Bumgardner, Knapp, Melville and Miller added to the pitching staff, to say nothing of the non-pitchers they also had get away.

The real problem is, you lock up a big share of your 11.7 scholarship budget on these guys and then you find out just weeks before school starts that they ain't coming. At that point everyone else you might've wanted is signed elsewhere and it's a mad scramble to put your money back in play so that it's working for you. And it's hard to find players at that late date and on that short of notice who can cut the mustard at UVA both baseball wise and academically.

UVA is really very good at what I call the "Beautiful Mind" approach to recruiting. Go for top talent, but not the VERY top guys who are likely to be offered 500k or more out of high school. They end up with the best of those who don't sign pro. Even with this approach, they've lost some guys here and there, but not so many as to leave their overall program short of talent.

The other place where they deserve credit is, they are very up front about their philosophy. If, e.g., Jake Cave did express interest, I can well imagine that he was told very plainly that UVA might not pursue him and why. I don't know Cave's situation personally, but he fits the profile of others who have come before and been told politely but clearly that a UVA offer will not come their way despite their considerable and acknowledged talents.

In the end, the programs will do what works best for them. I know some might wish they would look closer to home more often, but when UVA is atop all the national rankings and VT is suddenly showing up in the top 20 as well, I wouldn't expect any sea changes in their approaches any time soon. Winning comes first, don't kid yourselves.

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UVA is really very good at what I call the "Beautiful Mind" approach to recruiting. Go for top talent, but not the VERY top guys who are likely to be offered 500k or more out of high school. They end up with the best of those who don't sign pro.

Excellent post and analysis Midlo.

Actually a couple UVA's top recruits and early commits are among the very top guys. One from PA and one from GA. That said I'm sure UVA knows that and is prepared for the possibility of losing one if not both. And they also have a good read on signability for those players.

Yes, but where were they ranked at the time they verballed?

I see you have the PA kid ranked #17 now, and the GA kid ranked # 31 now, but both are highlighted in yellow, indicating they both recently moved up significantly.

Yes, They were both very impressive in Jupiter at the PG WWBA Championship.

I actually talked to the Virginia coaches there and it was no surprise to them. We had seen both before, but they (UVA) evaluated those two better than we did at the time. One coach (Kind of kidding,or maybe not) please don't be ranking him too high now. Of course, he knew we were going to do just that.

That's kind of my point.

Had you had them that highly ranked a year ago, I'd bet there would have been that much more care taken with respect to feeling out the kids on their signability.

But the sequence was, they committed first, then you shot them up the rankings later. Same kind of thing that happened in the past with Hissey, Hultzen, etc. They managed to keep Hultzen in the fold, but lost Hissey to a pro signing. The same pattern will likely repeat after this year, too, because I know of one early UVA commit in the 2011 class who is likely to be a pretty hot commodity in the pro draft by June 2011, given his current upward arc.

I know that UVA shied away from certain players in the past due to fear of their being too likely to sign with the pros. I could name names but some of them are actually HSBBW families and even with others who aren't, that info is a bit too personal to post publicly.

And that is a good point.

17 was 61
31 was 140
The 3rd player stayed about the same in the 80s.

However, it's not just UVA, there are many schools that shy away from the so called cinch first round types. Of course, some colleges go ahead and recruit these top guys knowing they will never play college baseball.

Sometimes, next to those that lack talent, the group that gets the least amount of recruiting action are these sure first round types. Lucky for UCLA and TCU that they went that route.