I agree with your logic, but I don't think they were a top team (in terms of talent) in the country nor one that deserved their national ranking early in the season. Very far from it IMHO. O'Connor & staff deserves a lot of credit for turning an abysmal Feb, March, April around into a stellar May & June.
Let's face it, they were not good even when most players were healthy. Look at their mid-week losses and non-conference games. I think the national media gave them a huge break with national rankings because of their coach and their program reputation and that carried them for a while. Many of their players were unproven and trying to live up to that ranking. I think when they fell from the top ranklings that it actually helped them relax and they got some games under their belts that they carried forward into an ACC tourney they barely made. The rest you know.
But let's give credit for turning this thing around and getting the most out of his players. Always the sign of a great manager.
I agree that the staff deserves a lot of credit for keeping the ship afloat throughout the season. I don't think anyone doubts that the coaching staff is as good as it gets. The reality though, is that UVA is a team that underperformed throughout much of the season. Their last two recruiting classes were both Top 10 classes, therefore suggesting that their young talent was some of the best in the country. I also think the kids deserve a tremendous amount of credit. They are the ones who ultimately got the job done!
Otherwise, my primary position is that we toss around the GOAT a little too often! That's all.
I admit it, I was one of many that gave them no chance. Truthfully, I thought they were fortunate to make the NCAA field. They were a #3 seed going out West. I thought MD would beat them in the Super Regional and I thought Florida would absolutely rip them up although I did have UVA favored against Arkansas (give me some credit). I figured there was absolutley no chance against Vandy and their luck had run out.
Every step they proved me wrong, and I follow the sport pretty closely. I have to tip my cap, and I never ever saw this coming. I saw them play some awful games (against some bad teams and a weaker than normal schedule by their standards) and I just didn't see it in them.
So, I'm one of those people I hate to admit it but I didn't think they had enough arms or fire power to do what they did. Incredible effort.
Not seeing it coming is a totally different conversation than they did something amazing. I'd agree wholeheartedly that their play had been so mediocre that expectations were pretty low after the ACC debacle.
Their season was a barbell. They played to their level in the first 13 and the last 12 games going 22-3 in the process.
In the middle they were an underachieving 22-21. Anticipating that they would change from a porch dog with fleas to a killer Pit Bull was hard to see coming. But that porch dog with fleas was a Pit Bull all along, they just had to get it out.
Well certainly not you? I agree with much of what you say…UVA’s win was no “miracle on ice”. However, I don’t feel O’Conner was incorrect in saying what he did given the media coverage I was hearing and reading about the “underdog” UVA.
A search “underdog UVA baseball team” brings up quite a few hits including this tweet
Why UVA became an 14-1 “underdog” going into the WS, and how much credit should go to O’Connor’s coaching performance this year is certainly good debate… one that has no doubt already started among award selection committees.
O’Connor will be up for UVA coach of the year, ACC coach of the year and NCAA coach of the year.
After CWS Championship, it's payday for Virginia Baseball Head Coach Brian O'Connor
So, adding up all the eligible categories, we're looking at at least $93,875 in bonuses, with a great shot of adding National Coach of the Year and VaSID Coach of the Year. GPA and graduation rates haven't been released, but of O'Connor achieves either bonus category, he'll have cracked $100K in bonuses alone.
His achieved bonuses, plus his base salary and supplemental compensation, come out to a cool $693,875, with the possibility of breaking $700K.
If you ask any Virginia fan, I'd bet they'd say that every penny of that is well-deserved.
It will be interesting to see what happens next to the UVA baseball program. Success is breeding success but sustaining it is really tough in the super competitive world DI baseball. Sources tell me schools like Radford are now getting kids that might have been going to UVA years ago.
Looking back at the recent WS runs of Oregon, SC, and UCLA they appear to last 3 to 6 years. Keeping good coaches around is tough, and being responsible for much of the recruiting it’s really a loss in two areas of your program…recruiting contacts cultivated over the years go out the door.
Finally, a writer from Roanoke appears to agree the pace of NCAA baseball games has become a problem. As one coach told me, “with my job on the line I’m not entrusting my staff to some 18 YO catcher”.
Indeed given those bonuses, perhaps more on the line than many realize.
McFarling: Coaches fuel pace problem at College World Series
Pace of play is spot on. They have to do something. 3:15 to 3:30 to play a 4-2 ballgame with 13 hits and 2 pitching changes is way too long.
FWIW Collegiate Baseball going into the season had the following rankings on the teams that made the CWS - 1,2,3,4,6,14,17,36. The outlier here is Arkansas at #36. The Final 4 was the 1,2,3 and 6 ranked teams going into the season.
In the final 4 - #1 eliminated #2 and #3 eliminated #6. Ultimately the only upset in the whole tournament was the #3 defeating #1 for the Championship.
An amazing job by this publication of recognizing the best teams in the sport 6 months in advance.
Baseball America had 6 of the 8 CWS teams in the preseason top 9. Only CSF at 17 and Ark. outside the top 25 were out of it.
So the team going into to Omaha that SHOULD have had the Cinderella slipper was Arkansas and UVA caught a break getting them in Game 1.
Good work Luv...that issue of CB long since discarded at this house. I don’t follow the baseball rankings as much as other sports and when it comes to football have found them to be wrong more often then not when it comes to ranking my Hokies in pre season…high pre-season rankings usually spelling disaster and vice- versa.
So yeah, it comes as a surprise to find the early season CB baseball rankings predicting so closely what eventually happened in the college WS. The RPI ranking isn’t used prior to the season starting so what’s the CB criteria?
The various polls were all over the place at the end of regular season. Baseball America didn’t have UVA ranked in the top 25…not even in the discussion with Radford at 22?
Found the CB rankings at their home site following UVA's 3 out of 4 losses in the ACC tourney. CB didn't have them ranked in their top 30 either!. Now they have to fly to the west coast having just lost their last three games to play in someone else's back yard. #17 USC had just completed it's season by beating Arizona State.
TG2 - Thanks for proving the point I have been trying to make. It would seem that all of the publications by Memorial Day had concluded that UVA had underachieved so significantly during the season that they were not a serious contender any longer.
So, how does that become the greatest job of anything by anyone?
UVA has Top 5 or Top 10 talent - that is not something that anyone has argued is not a good assumption. Instead the argument is that somehow the coaches and players might have overachieved. I prefer to recognize their talent that was there all the while rather than diminish it in any way by suggesting it isn't there.
My point was and still is - they finally played to their level - no more and no less. They caught some breaks - missing UCSB in the Regional, MD knocking out UCLA to get Super Regional at home, Arkansas (weakest team in CWS) in first game in Omaha and took advantage of all of it.
Championships happen when talent, some luck and taking advantage of opportunity come together.
The best coaching jobs begin when the adversity begins.
Yes UVA was preseason ranked #1 (or thereabouts in many polls) - truth is that may have been a little high but given the season they had prior it was certainly valid to have them in the top 10.
Where I see the validation for my original statement is how they were able to keep this group together throughout the season - They lose McCarthy and LaPrise, early and often to injury - then Kirby goes down and shortly thereafter Derek Casey. That's just 4 main cogs to their season among at least 6 others (including Cody and Gerstenmier who were tabbed to help replace some of the thump lost to last years draft that took Papi, Fisher, et al)
I know injuries are a part of the game but rarely does a team lose such major contributors and find their way back. Had they stayed healthy and rolled along to the title I might be swayed to agree - but this team sunk low and fast and that's when the leadership of a coaching staff can pull a team through.
That is my point - they started 4 freshman the majority of the season and just kept believing in themselves even when they were staring a 15-15 conference record in the face.
Have other teams overcome more and gone on to win a national title against another team with as much depth and talent as Vanderbilt???? I think not. Vandy was LOADED this year - maybe even more than last season - Frankly, this UVA team wasn't nearly as good as last years.
I stick by my assessment. You all make some valid points but the idea that UVA was a great team that underachieved all year and then figured it out at the end just doesn't align with the facts. The team that won the regional, Super-regional and CWS wasn't the same team that began the season - they had to completely redefine themselves a couple different times during the journey and it is great coaching that sails that ship.
Talent - yes. But leadership is what delivers talent.
And let's not forget that the injuries required the coaching staff to get creative. Kevin Doherty became an OF out of necessity. He spent his first 2 years at UVA as a LHP...and is still listed as one.
They also pulled kids up from the club baseball team. CLUB BASEBALL! Just to have enough bodies to scrimmage.
I stick by my assessment. You all make some valid points but the idea that UVA was a great team that underachieved all year and then figured it out at the end just doesn't align with the facts. The team that won the regional, Super-regional and CWS wasn't the same team that began the season - they had to completely redefine themselves a couple different times during the journey and it is great coaching that sails that ship.
Talent - yes. But leadership is what delivers talent.
You nailed it R…having written the following mostly last night I’ll still post it…apologies in advance for the repetition.
Not following UVA too carefully during the regular season there were some large blank areas to fill in. It’s been fun digging around trying to find those pieces which might shed a little more light on this somewhat puzzling yet very interesting if not inspirational team. It appears most would prefer the tidy narrative of “underdogs who over achieved” or “talented team which finally lived up to its potential” but life is usually a little bit more complicated.
Yes this 2015 UVA team is talented and I’ll agree to top 10, but not top 5. Although if I said UVA had top 10 talent to someone in the stands after they were swept by Va Tech, and then were simply dominated by Louisville, they would have called for medical assistance. Some of the Louisville games were televised and this UVA team looked like none other I’ve ever seen in the O’Connor era. They demonstrated little competitive spirit while appearing as though they didn’t belong on the same field with the Cardinals. They lost 8-1, 11-4, and 4-0 for a complete beat down both offensively and defensively.
Although they weren’t done stumbling around just yet…they went on to lose the Georgia Tech series, the NC state series, and had they not won out against NC in the final regular season series we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion. Still not satisfied they had gone far enough they dropped their last three games in the ACC tourney completing their fall into the abyss.
The regular season journey to the NCAA tournament had gone from a mostly false and unproven position of superiority into the humility of loss and despair. They were picked near the top to begin the season yet by the beginning of the NCAA tournament Collegiate Baseball doesn’t even have them in the top 30. Nonetheless they had somehow done just enough to be given a chance to redeem their regular season failures.
It might be noted in passing that if you’re a betting man the lesson to be learned from UVA’s journey is this.…. forget the IN-season polls after a few weeks into the season and definitely don’t look at them prior to the start of the NCAA tournament. Instead, pull up that Collegiate Baseball preseason poll and if your team is still around for Omaha, make your picks as though nobody has played a game. Once one understands how the play will come out the details are unimportant.
Seriously though, how can we not give O’Connor and staff plenty of credit for keeping this ship from sinking? After the Louisville series, who couldn’t help but think UVA didn’t have what it took to play with the big boys this year. Some may see underachievement at that point however a rash of injuries and misfortune were putting this team’s mental toughness to the test and things were not going to get any better soon.
In such turbulent times a master guide is essential. We know how easy it is to manage a talented team when everything is going smoothly….but it never lasts. As O’Connor has so correctly said, “you learn far more from your loses” and isn’t that exactly what this team did? Just in the nick of time for added drama I might add.
Recently graduated from the school of adversity and severe butt kicking’s, UVA’s players had survived to fight again for redemption in the big arena. Only now they were equipped with a mental toughness that polls can't measure, and proved superior to the mere physical talents of the Florida and Vandy teams they were about to face. The stage had been set and they would not be denied this time through. The hero’s journey soon to be completed.
Vandy coach Corbin understood as much when he said after the game…
“It was a very, very gutty performance by their team, their pitching staff, to allow them to get to this point and be successful,”
Luv posted:
Championships happen when talent, some luck and taking advantage of opportunity come together.
Well said. The last word to Coach O’Connor
“A good friend of mine told me a long time ago….”Omaha will happen when you least expect it,’ ”
I'll say one thing, using Kirby in that Friday pool play game just to get the kinks out was one of the great crystal ball jobs of all time. In the third inning of that game, it sure looked rough. In the 8th and 9th innings of the finale, it started to look like a master stroke of genius.
Had they not used Kirby then, imagine if they had had to go to him in that last game when he was not any more game ready than he had been the prior Friday. On Friday, he couldn't find his slider at all. By Wednesday, he was throwing the slider repeatedly and nobody could hit it.
Yes, that 2nd FL game was a little house money. No lose in a way. If it worked they knock FL out - if it doesn't they got Kirby to the hill and know more of what he's got. They were bringing back Waddell no matter what for the final game of the pool because of what he did to them the first time and saved Jones to go in Game 1 vs. Vandy if they got that far.
They didn't see enough to bring him back for Vandy Game 2. I think they sized it up and decided Kirby had 40 to 50 pitches in him. Waddell gave them exactly what they needed.
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I agree with much of what you say…UVA’s win was no “miracle on ice”. However, I don’t feel O’Conner was incorrect in saying what he did given the media coverage I was hearing and reading about the “underdog” UVA.
