Vanderbilt Recruiting

PGStaff:

I heard the same comments and it bothered me too. I thought to myself that these guys must be totally clueless and they are doing such a disservice to those listening. So many parents actually have no idea what goes into getting their players in front of the right people to "be seen." While going to a camp is a great way to target an individual school, most schools will what to see player more then once. 

Gone are the days of a coach showing up at a high school to watch a game. Why would they when they can see so many players at a showcase or tournament.

I think it makes for a great "point of reference" piece for those coming to HSBBW asking about realistic likelihood of a player's chances to play major D1 baseball.  As always, thanks for posting!

My sons benifited greatly from attending PG events , one made a couple all tourney teams, one ranked top 5 RHP in state.  When people ask me I always say go to as many PG events as you can afford. We had good success at Area Code events as well.

I heard that, too. I think they also said he was a three sport athlete.

The general public hears a lot about the problems with travel sports and showcasing. Extreme pressure on kids, outrageous expenses, overblown expectations, exclusivity, crazy parents and coaches, etc. I think the broadcasters were doing a little pandering to that stereotype. "See, you don’t have to get involved with all of that mess."

Sure, if you have incredible athletic talent the word is going to get around, and you will be presented with a lot of opportunities. The other 99% of the kids have to work like crazy to be seen by the right people, and pray they perform up to their potential when they get that chance.

PG - I heard the comments too.  No surprises on either side of the "equation".  Some of these sports announcers live in la-la land when it comes to how real people live.  

Those of us that spend anytime on this site know that these coaches are going to "high target & high profile showcases" and can recruit locally when it is convenient & worthwhile for them.   There is a reason why they've been successful.  They know where to be, and can evaluate talent.   It doesn't hurt either program that these kids may take a discount to play for one of these coaches too.

Would it make sense to think there are some regional differences and, in addition, some differences in terms of the selectivity of the university?

For instance, Rice recruits in the range of 70% or so of their players from the greater Houston area, with some of the difference recruited from the Austin area which I think is about 90 miles away.  A highly selective school but in a hotbed of baseball.

In the SF Bay Area, a college coach from Northern CA down to San Luis Obispo can go to a WCAL baseball game and see anywhere from 20-30 D1 players on a field, when we consider some who are not playing as underclassmen but will be when the senior moves on.

Vanderbilt  recruits from a the entire East Coast, South and Midwest. To get the best of those players with the academics for admission, it isn't possible for them to drive within 90 miles to see 20 players.

In contrast, does Rice or Fullerton or UCLA for that matter need to scout and recruit like Vanderbilt when the massive talent base of Houston, Orange County and the greater Southern CA area is within a 1-2 hour drive?

PG clearly creates wonderful opportunities for players and college coaches alike.  I don't see any way PG should feel slighted or threatened by anything said on a broadcast when he/it has the credibility with top coaches like Corbin and so many others.

What was said does seem to be correct, though,  in some areas and situations but perhaps not so much in others?

Devil's advocate here, but this is kind of chicken or the egg. Meaning, are these guys D1 players because they participated in travel/showcase events? Or did they participate in travel ball/showcase events because they are the top players and that is the new norm/expectation?

I guess more simply: if none of these guys participated in travel/showcase, how many would still be playing Division 1 baseball?

There has been a few Knuckleheads putting out some articles the last couple of years slamming Travel Ball, it kinda sounds like these guys read a few of them.

 Its not for everyone, but for others it's a must. My son could be playing locally facing 75-82 mph fastballs but instead he is being challenged all summer by kids that are getting drafted next year and throwing 85-92 mph. I watched a kid throw 92-93 and touched 95 in a no hitter in Cincinnati a couple of weeks ago.....we can't get that kind of competition locally playing against kid's in my son's math class.

Some good points. Would they be playing DI anyway.  I'd like to think yes.  I just think they might be playing for a different DI team.

I get the chicken egg reference. Not sure how to answer or more accurately, don't know the answer. I only know the results.

infielddad brings up a good point, Vanderbilt recruits the entire nation.  In fact some of their players are from California.  For the most part it is true that California schools have lots of talent within a short distance.  However, even UCLA is chuck full of showcase and Travel players, whether need to be or not.  And they have recruited top players like Jason Heyward (GA) in the past.  Stanford actually recruits several out of state players.  Everybody wants the best possible players, no matter where they are from. Florida is in a crazy baseball state too, but two of their top recruits last year were from Iowa and Minnesota! I will say, whether necessary or not, we see an awful lot of Travel Teams from California every year.  And on those teams you normally see the very best players and those that are drafted early.  Maybe kids are just wanting to play against the best competition possible.  I will say that there are a ton of talented baseball players in California and everyone knows it.

I also agree with MidAtlanticdad's thoughts.  There is definitely a bad side to most everything including Travel baseball and Showcases, if one wants to dwell on the bad and disregard the good. Obviously some do want to do that. And some have good reason to feel the way they do.

The Doctor,

If that kid throwing up to 95 is not named Russell, Hoeing, or Day, please let me know who it is.

If you look up the history of our younger son you will find that he played on a very elite travel team.  You will also find that he pitched twice in a regional showcase, run by that travel team.

But he was recruited (I'd say) 50% based on his HS coach and team, 25% based on his travel team and 25% based on being related to his older brother.  0% based on showcases - he never got a sniff after those two events.

Many...many college coaches saw him play at HS games in a manner described by infielddad.  Nearly all talked to his HS coach a lot (respected coach).

I did not send him to bigger showcases (including ignoring an Area Code invite) because I did not think a 5-10/86mph RHP would "show" well in that setting.  It might have cast doubt when performing right next to 6-2/92mph guys for 2-3 innings.

You see, in my view, to wanna recruit him you had to spend a little time.  A little time watching him.  Figuring him out.  Talking to those who saw him every day and deciding to trust them.  A few schools did just that, some others had doubts...some very close who had recruited his older brother.

Its all ok - he got to 1 of 3 schools he wanted to get too and its 1,000 miles away from us.  And he's having the time of his life there.

He woulda showed up on PG's list as a 'travel ball/showcase' player had his team made it to Omaha this year.  But it didn't have much to do with his recruitment.  The reality is, he wasn't the same as most of the guys you think of when you think travel/showcase players.  To me, it woulda been a fallacy to believe he was.  I believe he woulda been recruited by the same schools (more or less) with no showcases and no travel ball beyond 200 mile radius of our home. 

The jaw dropping stud probably doesn't need to showcase as long as he wants to go college somewhere near home. But even if he does want to play near home he showcases to prove to scouts he can compete with the best.

When I heard Petersen's comments I thought, "That kid was fortunate to be in the right place at the right time." He played well at a Vanderbilt camp. What if he had a mediocre camp? Would he be at Middle Tennessee playing? What showcasing does is provide college prospects multiple opportunities to be in the right place at the right time several times over the course of a summer.

Many would still be playing D1. The question would be where. Maybe the only programs within local scouting distance are mid majors.

During our years [17] with the Area Code games. the tryouts thru out the USA were very important for the college coaches. Many traveled coast to coast and I sent advance schedule to each coach.

Since the games resulted in signing bonus or $35 million each year, the tryouts was the major visit by the college coaches.

In addition we held our tryouts at Fresno State, Notre Dame, Virginia, ?Stetson, Rutgers, Texas A&M, TCU, Texas and Yale.

The players paid $0 for the tryouts or games. What would I do today?

That is the $64.00 question.

Bob

<www.goodwillseries.org>

What the hell is a mid-major in baseball?

PG, he is ranked #8 in 2016 class tall skinny kid with lots of ceiling, everyone talks about his fastball but his hard slider is crazy.

A non major conference. You wouldn't suggest that a William & Mary in the CAA could compete on a regular basis with ACC teams? You wouldn't suggest the talent in the CAA is on par with the ACC?

That's football talk. UCI, Coll of Charleston, Pepperdine, CSF.....

Not trying to beat down this conversation, just annoyed by the mid-major label. 

In many respects the showcase recruiting phenomenon is a reflection of how the world works today.  Industries of any size tend to build around a pool of talent and resources - Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Hollywood, etc.  These nuclei then attract more talent and more resources until they become "the place to be" if you want to be successful in that space.  The concentration of resources and competition makes recruiting in these hot beds a no-brainer.  Baseball is no different.  Sure there's always going to be an actress discovered in some small town USA, but for most it doesn't work that way.

The slider is a killer, not understanding why a HS player with potential is using that to get outs.

To each his own I suppose.

I think that Vandy is a great example of why many do turn down the draft to attend certain programs.

Yeah I don't know why a 6'3" Junior would want to start developing some other pitches!

Doctor,

Thanks for the info.  We get to see him again soon.  We actually got an email asking why we had him ranked so high?  Maybe, we could have had you reply to that email.