What are the minimum velocity requirements anyone has seen at a top 40 D1 program. I am 16-year old Junior and I am 6'3" 195-200lbs and topping out at about 84-85
Ryan
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Considering that you are only 16 years of age I would say you are sitting where you want to be. You are only going to improve your velocity
Thank you for letting me know
Ryan
Ryan
Just keep in mind that while velocity is a factor, there are other very important factors such as mental make-up, control, etc. There are many pitchers at D-1 schools who don't throw especially hard but do the one thing that is most important - consistently get hitters out.
calbears82691.. you said minimum top 40? RHP 87+ LHP 85+. Prefer 89+ and 87+. These are Stalker speeds. You should also have movement, good mechanics and command, at least one solid breaking pitch and hopefully some deception. It's a package deal, so work with a qualified instructor and follow a solid workout and long-toss program in the offseason.
Ryan,
I agree with Bum. Unless a pitcher has incredible breaking stuff, etc. along with HS and high level tournament ball success the top 40 D1s aren't generally going to look at him unless he's hitting the numbers Bum has posted. You can take 1 or 2 mph off those numbers for a mid level D1 when combined with good pitchability. But they still prefer 86 or 87+ for a RHP. I know of one pitcher who works 84-86 with excellent pitchability who signed with Cal Poly.
I agree with Bum. Unless a pitcher has incredible breaking stuff, etc. along with HS and high level tournament ball success the top 40 D1s aren't generally going to look at him unless he's hitting the numbers Bum has posted. You can take 1 or 2 mph off those numbers for a mid level D1 when combined with good pitchability. But they still prefer 86 or 87+ for a RHP. I know of one pitcher who works 84-86 with excellent pitchability who signed with Cal Poly.
Minimum Requirements:
Righty = 80mph
Lefty = 75mph
And in case you're wondering, I've seen multiple pitchers in DI college baseball throw these speeds. That doesn't mean they do exceptionally well or outstanding, but they had to do something to get into the game at the DI level.
Concerning command. It works like this:
Velocity = Ability to miss your spot more often and not get hit.
A fastball at 90mph won't get hit as many times as a fastball at 85mph in the same location (seems obvious).
Righty = 80mph
Lefty = 75mph
And in case you're wondering, I've seen multiple pitchers in DI college baseball throw these speeds. That doesn't mean they do exceptionally well or outstanding, but they had to do something to get into the game at the DI level.
Concerning command. It works like this:
Velocity = Ability to miss your spot more often and not get hit.
A fastball at 90mph won't get hit as many times as a fastball at 85mph in the same location (seems obvious).
tbird,
That is misleading. That can happen but it is so rare as to not be meaningful, especially at a top 40 D1.
That is misleading. That can happen but it is so rare as to not be meaningful, especially at a top 40 D1.
I would bet most of the guys throwing 75 or 80 at a D1 top 40 school didn't get into the school as a pitcher with those arm speeds. The only sub 80 guy I saw was a kid that switched to the submarine motion. I have seen several 80mph guys that used throw at higher speeds before an injury. Its tough to get looks from a d1 college if you are throwing 75-80.
Right. I'd go a step further. It's tough to get looks by a D1 college if you're throwing 80-85.
These replies match my conversation with a DI pitching coach (NOT top 40 DI---this is a mid-level DI in a northern state). Coach had zero interest in watching a HS senior under 80 mph. Pitcher with velocity of 80-85 in HS would need something else very special to get a look. Willing to look at pitchers with 85+ velocity and throwing strikes. That particular DI coach only started to get excited with velocities 87-88 or better.
Thank you all for letting me know. What is the difference in speed on a JUGS or a Stalker?
Ryan
Ryan
I was sitting next to Rodriguez from Pepperdine while he was gunning pitchers with a Stalker. I think Rob Kremer might have been sitting there too. I asked Rodriguez what the first few pitchers at this camp were throwing. He said 83-84 tops. I said that's not bad for rising juniors. He just laughed.
Here's a pretty concrete example of what it takes to get interest. Bywater was considered a relatively soft throwing pitcher with great pitchability who got a top 40 D1 scholly despite his "lack" of velocity.
Here's a pretty concrete example of what it takes to get interest. Bywater was considered a relatively soft throwing pitcher with great pitchability who got a top 40 D1 scholly despite his "lack" of velocity.
quote:A year ago, Bywater was coming off an "average" junior season, by Mutz's account, a consistent pitcher who threw in the low 80s.
"In the last year and beginning of the year, no one showed any interest," Bywater said of his prospects for being recruited to play for a college program, much less getting drafted.
Then "something happened," as Mutz describes it. Bywater's velocity increased to 85-90 mph, sometimes 91. The marked improvement stemmed from natural development, augmented by a deliberate devotion to throwing as much as possible.
"Going into high school, I did long toss every other day with my brother; that gave me 3-4 mph," Bywater explained. "Every year after that, throughout the year, I'd gain mph, just from me growing and getting bigger, doing a lot of throwing and gaining more power."
He also got in extra work by playing in summer leagues.
"I didn't really lift weights. Hopefully, the velocity keeps going up," Bywater said.
quote:Originally posted by calbears82691:
What are the minimum velocity requirements anyone has seen at a top 40 D1 program. I am 16-year old Junior and I am 6'3" 195-200lbs and topping out at about 84-85
Ryan
To get meaningful top 40 D1 innings and be a regular pitcher, you probably need to work in the high 80's, have good command of three pitches, one of which is a decent change up to throw to lefties.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:quote:Originally posted by calbears82691:
What are the minimum velocity requirements anyone has seen at a top 40 D1 program. I am 16-year old Junior and I am 6'3" 195-200lbs and topping out at about 84-85
Ryan
To get meaningful top 40 D1 innings and be a regular pitcher, you probably need to work in the high 80's, have good command of three pitches, one of which is a decent change up to throw to lefties.
I have always agreed with Dad04's assessment on this topic. At most of the college games I go to, I like to peek at the radar guns and most programs use the stalker gun. The number that I see the majority of the time is 88mph for a D1 college pitcher and that is the fastball cruising speed. Generally, the only time I see the ball thrown in the 90's is when a late-inning bullpen guy comes in. We have one kid on our team who is both a fine starter and a closer. When he starts, his FB is around 88-89. When he closes, his fastball is between 91-95 mph. Obviously, guys can crank it up when they know they do not have to go deep into the ball game. I saw a kid Joshua Fields pitch on TV last week and he was bringing it at 97-98 on the TV gun which tend to read a little high in my experience. Another TV game I saw last week was showing the Old Miss Starter Lance Lynn in the high 80's and low 90's. The Kentucky starter - a left hander, was 85-87 mph. All this is anecdotal of course. There are exceptions to every rule but in general, Dad04 numbers are correct.
Thanks CD. Just a footnote; Pitchers at that level don't much concern themselves so much with velocity, probably because they have (enough of) it, but also because they understand it is one piece of the puzzle. They judge their own worth by the number of innings they can "work at the knees" before they tire and the ball elevates. 3 or 4 innings are usually not enough to start, while 5 or 6 should be.
How long they can stay at their cruising velocity, at the knees and the number of times successfully going through a line up, are what make a good college starting pitcher.
How long they can stay at their cruising velocity, at the knees and the number of times successfully going through a line up, are what make a good college starting pitcher.
quote:Originally posted by Dad04:
Thanks CD. Just a footnote; Pitchers at that level don't much concern themselves so much with velocity, probably because they have (enough of) it, but also because they understand it is one piece of the puzzle. They judge their own worth by the number of innings they can "work at the knees" before they tire and the ball elevates. 3 or 4 innings are usually not enough to start, while 5 or 6 should be.
How long they can stay at their cruising velocity, at the knees and the number of times successfully going through a line up, are what make a good college starting pitcher.
Thank you all for letting me know. What are the best ways for me to get to that?
Dad04 has given some good information and is 100% correct. I'll go a little further for you and say that if you're a right hander you'll have to be able to throw hard, definitely above 85 and preferably upper 80s to low 90s, especially if you're smaller stature. If you're a lefty, then you don't have to throw as hard, but still need to be mid-80s at least. The cold hard fact is that velocity is extremely important to college coaches, and not just 'top 40' programs either.
A number of boys who formerly played summer ball with our teams have gone on to pitch in college, and the common denominator that they all have is the ability to throw hard. Off the top of my head, I can think of 7 boys who are currently pitching in the Big West, Pac-10, WCC or WAC conferences that used to play with us, and none of them had fastballs less than 86-87 in high school, most were 88-90, and most of them throw harder now than they did when they played with us.
Velocity is very important, but it's not the only thing. One WCC coach came to watch the pitcher whom I consider the finest to ever pitch for us, and the coach immediately didn't like him, as he was only 5'10" and about 160. It didn't matter that he sat 87-89 and could dial it up to 92 at times, had command of four pitches and was a competitor. He was too small in that coaches eyes. After five innings of 1-hit ball, the coach got up and left, complaining that he'd wasted a day and a plane ticket on a kid who wasn't big enough to play for his team. That boy went to another WCC school, led his team in ERA as a freshman, played in Alaska last year and is headed to Cape Cod next month, but he was still too small for some coaches to like. What that boy cared about was that a lot of other colleges were more open minded about his size and he had many choices about where he was going to attend college. What his parents cared about was that he got to go to an excellent university, and they aren't having to pay for it.
Another boy whom I consider to be one of the top pitchers to ever play for us is a kid I couldn't get a single D1 school interested in, largely becuase his fastball only sat 84-85. He's a 6'1" righthander with excellent control, a plus changeup and solid curveball. He's a freshman pitching for a junior college, as their #2 starter. He'll be pitching for them in the California jr. college championships this weekend, as they're one of the final four teams. BUT, D1 coaches didn't consider him D1 material. The irony is that if he puts up a good year again next spring, he'll end up with a quality D1 program, bigger than many who weren't interested in him coming out of high school. Good pitchers who lack velocity are often overlooked, unjustly.
There are many fine pitchers who lack velocity that can be very successful, but will quite possibly find themselves pitching in jr. college or lower levels rather than high profile programs. There is nothing wrong with that. Lots of great college options out there besides just D1.
A number of boys who formerly played summer ball with our teams have gone on to pitch in college, and the common denominator that they all have is the ability to throw hard. Off the top of my head, I can think of 7 boys who are currently pitching in the Big West, Pac-10, WCC or WAC conferences that used to play with us, and none of them had fastballs less than 86-87 in high school, most were 88-90, and most of them throw harder now than they did when they played with us.
Velocity is very important, but it's not the only thing. One WCC coach came to watch the pitcher whom I consider the finest to ever pitch for us, and the coach immediately didn't like him, as he was only 5'10" and about 160. It didn't matter that he sat 87-89 and could dial it up to 92 at times, had command of four pitches and was a competitor. He was too small in that coaches eyes. After five innings of 1-hit ball, the coach got up and left, complaining that he'd wasted a day and a plane ticket on a kid who wasn't big enough to play for his team. That boy went to another WCC school, led his team in ERA as a freshman, played in Alaska last year and is headed to Cape Cod next month, but he was still too small for some coaches to like. What that boy cared about was that a lot of other colleges were more open minded about his size and he had many choices about where he was going to attend college. What his parents cared about was that he got to go to an excellent university, and they aren't having to pay for it.
Another boy whom I consider to be one of the top pitchers to ever play for us is a kid I couldn't get a single D1 school interested in, largely becuase his fastball only sat 84-85. He's a 6'1" righthander with excellent control, a plus changeup and solid curveball. He's a freshman pitching for a junior college, as their #2 starter. He'll be pitching for them in the California jr. college championships this weekend, as they're one of the final four teams. BUT, D1 coaches didn't consider him D1 material. The irony is that if he puts up a good year again next spring, he'll end up with a quality D1 program, bigger than many who weren't interested in him coming out of high school. Good pitchers who lack velocity are often overlooked, unjustly.
There are many fine pitchers who lack velocity that can be very successful, but will quite possibly find themselves pitching in jr. college or lower levels rather than high profile programs. There is nothing wrong with that. Lots of great college options out there besides just D1.
quote:Originally posted by calbears82691:
Thank you all for letting me know. What are the best ways for me to get to that?
If you are not on a throwing program, you probably would benefit from one. A regimented throwing program will improve arm strength and performance for almost everyone. An improvement of 3-5 mph is possible, maybe more for a taller player like yourself.
Something like the Jaeger program is a good place to start.
http://www.jaegersports.com/arm_strength.html
The other thought is to get your mechanics looked at by a good pitching coach. They are all over San Diego. You could have a "power leak" somewhere in your delivery, like opening the hips too early, you can't see by yourself. You might be using all arm to throw, but I don't know.
I'd get your delivery checked out and get the arm shaped up, to maximize your potential.
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Related good story...(right out of your area)
Kid out of HS, no rep, a bit thin, while recuitable his velocity (87) and command were good but considered unremarkable...got some light interest out of HS by DI's but no full court press....no interest from MLB...ended up at the same decent local DI that both his parents went to...(and one in your area)...
Heard this story two years later from the mouths of 2 lamenting/kicking themselves recruiters, and 2 drooling scouts...as they watched the same pitcher carve up hitter after hitter this spring...using ungodly command and control, and throwing the 99 mph(gunned that day) fastball sparingly...the same pitcher will likely be the first pick in next years draft.
Now while I am sure that the story has been embellished some,on the other hand the kid is reaching mythic proportions and I did get get it directly from the mouths of scouts and recruiters...and while this is certainly one in a million story, it bears remembering that players do get "bumps" in velocity...and do develop...sometimes in simply remarkable fashion.
44
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Related good story...(right out of your area)
Kid out of HS, no rep, a bit thin, while recuitable his velocity (87) and command were good but considered unremarkable...got some light interest out of HS by DI's but no full court press....no interest from MLB...ended up at the same decent local DI that both his parents went to...(and one in your area)...
Heard this story two years later from the mouths of 2 lamenting/kicking themselves recruiters, and 2 drooling scouts...as they watched the same pitcher carve up hitter after hitter this spring...using ungodly command and control, and throwing the 99 mph(gunned that day) fastball sparingly...the same pitcher will likely be the first pick in next years draft.
Now while I am sure that the story has been embellished some,on the other hand the kid is reaching mythic proportions and I did get get it directly from the mouths of scouts and recruiters...and while this is certainly one in a million story, it bears remembering that players do get "bumps" in velocity...and do develop...sometimes in simply remarkable fashion.
44.
O44,
Nice story but PG shows him hitting 91 on the Stalker in 2005. They had him ranked 138th in the nation in the 2006 HS draft class. I think he went to SDSU because he wanted to, not because he didn't have lots of other choices.
The draft reports from back in 2006 showed him as wanting top 10 round money and possibly deserving it so they expected him to slip. He was listed at 6'4", 245 lbs in the draft report.
I think the story was embellished some.
I will confirm that scouts are drooling over him as we heard a local scout talking about him on Monday.
Nice story but PG shows him hitting 91 on the Stalker in 2005. They had him ranked 138th in the nation in the 2006 HS draft class. I think he went to SDSU because he wanted to, not because he didn't have lots of other choices.
The draft reports from back in 2006 showed him as wanting top 10 round money and possibly deserving it so they expected him to slip. He was listed at 6'4", 245 lbs in the draft report.
I think the story was embellished some.
I will confirm that scouts are drooling over him as we heard a local scout talking about him on Monday.
.
Thanks CADad...
I stand corrected...and so do those who told it to me...still a good story though, even the true one...
I can attest...the kid is simply magic...even though he got the loss today against Utah today in the MWC Tourney.
44
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Thanks CADad...
I stand corrected...and so do those who told it to me...still a good story though, even the true one...
I can attest...the kid is simply magic...even though he got the loss today against Utah today in the MWC Tourney.
44.
With your size, top 40 school are going to want you 87+. If you only throw 87, you need to be able to command unbelievably. But being 16, you velocity should start to take off.
Thank you INShocker for letting me know