Velocity cutoff for D-1

As has been often mentioned, and debated, on this board, velocity does open the eyes of scouts. It may not keep them open but it sure gets attention. I have less experience than many on here, but have a lhp son, now a redshirt sophmore at a D-3; he originally went to a D-2, but transferred after two years. Based strictly on my experience with him, to get D-1 attention as a lefty pitcher, a consistent 85 mph with control, movement, and a breaking ball, seems to be a baseline, and each mph above 85 only increases the D-1 possibilities. At 90, a lhp will be swamped with D-1 attention. My son had hit 85 the fall of his senior year, but consistently he was more of a 81-84 guy. He got marginal D-1 interest, and a lot of D-2,3 interest. Having said all that, you will find successful lefties throwing 81-83 in D-1's, but it's harder to get noticed. Typically, the successful ones have great control and a good breaking ball/changeup. Other factors come into play as well; if you're a lefty throwing 83, and you're a skinny 6'6", you're more attractive than if you're a fireplug 5'9". Height matters, and tall skinny guys are looked upon as more projectable than stocky fireplugs. Great breaking balls get noticed as well. Hope this helps.

Lefties need to have a very good and effective pick off to first, that will get you noticed.

haha, unfortunatly "fireplug 5'9" is an exact description of me

Brent,

Two words for you: "Billy Wagner".


Hard work and determination can carry you a long way. And don't get too hung up on D-1 being the only level of baseball worth pursuing; my son transferred from a D-2 to a D-3, and he is loving life and really enjoying the experience. To play at any level of college ball puts you well beyond most. Go for it!

Two more words for you...Justin Simmons.

Justin pitched for 4 years at the University of Texas, including being the ace of their 2002 National Championship team.

Justin is about 6'4, is left-handed, and his fastball was 78-81. GREAT curveball, GREAT change-up, GREAT pick-off move.

Bottom line, he got hitters out. If you can show that you can get good hitters out, someone will show interest. By the way, Justin is pitching in the Minor leagues now.

Good Luck.

His name escapes me but a smallish lefty low 80's was weekend pitcher for the U of Miami few years ago and there a decent D1 program.

We are a DIII school in MD, our number one is a lefty that touches 86...consistently 82-84...he went to a DI and transfered after his first season...we have another lefty that tops at 88, never looked at out of HS (played OF)...I can't stress this enough...the point is GO SOMEWHERE, WHERE YOU WILL PLAY!! you can't get better if you are not playing...bottom line!! Some coaches looked for pure velocity, I myself would prefer my guys get somebody out...I happen to think that is important...also I couldn't agree more with Hokieone...I would just add like is son...go somewhere where you can play and enjoy...if you have the ability the scouts will find you as long as the coach gets you showcased...Easter Connecticut State DIII, Ryan DePietro 6th round, Wisconsin-Whitewater DIII, pitcher (can't remember his name) 6th round!!

Throwing 80-81 as a rising junior is a good indicator that you can get into a college as a lefty. My son's pitching coach..he has a world series ring as a pitcher by the way.. says 83-85 is where you need to be as a senior. You can look at the numbers from the perfect game showcases posted in another thread on this forum to see how you match up. 80-81 looks real good from here.

Here is the thread title.

How does your fast ball measure up to these numbers? RHPs Added

The whole billy wagner thing doesn't really apply here. He may be a "spark plug"... but he throws a 3-digit fastball. That could get a one armed midget noticed.

True..you probably just somehow violated the Americans with Disabilities Act...but true.

Agree #1Stunna.

D1 guys at top programs are in the mid-80's, although everyone likes to think that they are in the high '90's or even into the 100's.

If you're in the mid-80's at most places, you can be recruited by most everyone.

MLB, after all, requires an 86 minimum. I don't think Maddox hit 86 except a few times in a game this year.

Regarding D1 Velocity for a LHP:
We're seeing plenty of attention for a senior LHP throwing 85 consistently, touching 87.

I think the key for him is the ability to throw more than one pitch for strikes (FB and CH, he didn't even try a curve till July of this past summer when he was developed enough to handle it without risking injury). We're hearing coaches get excited about his future and how he'll develop under a college program. His arm is fresh.

He only threw 83 going into his JR year and wasn't a year-round baseball player. He played s****r during the fall every year. The running kept him in great shape. LOTS OF LONG TOSS through the winter really helped!

We can all agree that pitching is more than velocity, and that's true, there are more intangiables with pitching than possibly anything else in sports. But if you're a big left hander with nothing more than a 93 mph fastball... i'd say just about any program in the country will take you over a polished 83-84 mph guy with good control and off speed stuff. You may not think it's right but thats the way it is.

#1 Stunna

if the LHP with the 93 MPH heat does not develop another pitch and have control and ball movement how long will he last?

quote:

if the LHP with the 93 MPH heat does not develop another pitch and have control and ball movement how long will he last?

Depends on which level he is at.

In my book --it will be any level-- you dont get by with one pitch after HS

Clearly you missed my entire point... I did not say that it was RIGHT... nor did i say he would be effective. What I said was that most schools will gamble on being able to develop the big hard throwing lefty rather than take a finesse type of guy who was good in high school.

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Posted this in general items but thought it applied here as well....

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Inspired by the math skills of Dad4boys
went back and looked at the velocity statistics of 108, '05, pitchers who had verbally comitted by last November. Meaning that they are the players selected from the showcases, not just those showing. Went strictly on velocity..

MPH / Number

<82 -0
82- 0
83 - 0
84 - 6
85 - 13
86 - 9
87 - 16
88 - 18
89 - 21
90 - 12
91 - 13
92 - 13
93 - 3
94+ - 4

Total 107

85% at 87MPH or over
70% at 88MPH or over

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44,
Could you give us a list of how the 107 broke down by say school, division, or conference?

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Good question, was thinking about that....

Will take some time, but will go to work on that. Actually have height as well...

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Parents, players etc...are way to stuck on Velocity! The key to this game is getting somebody out! Until recruits figure that out we as coaches constantly go round and round on velocity...DI,II or III...go where you can play...throw strikes, get people out and if you are good enough you will get an opportunity to play at the next level! I can't tellyou how many guys tell me DIII coach, so and so DI is interested in me because I throw 87...guess what...they've got 25 other guys that do that...and after 1 year he's out of baseball sulking...and who knows what he could have done! GO WHERE YOU WILL PLAY!!!

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VJC...

With all due respects...While it is agreed that velocity is overrated....being only part of the equation...

What players and aprents are experiencing is an emphasis in recruting on velocity...

Until players and parents perceive recruiting on the basis getting players out instead of velocity...players and parents will remain hung up on it.

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Thank you 44, that is all I have been trying to say. People keep talking about how important other things are besides velocity, NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT POINT. What we are saying is that recruiting has changed greatly to focus on those with the physical "tools" and not so much those with the intangiables that get people out.

Eric Averill from ASU was only topping out at 83 in the College World Series this year, and he was their most effective pitcher.

i am 5'7 165 lbs, muscular and stocky lefty and throw 73-78 mph with tail on it. I have a really good changeup in my opinion(it tails and gets people out so i assume) and a decent slider. I am also on a connie mack team in so cal, where i play hs ball. Is that good enough to play for a d2, d3, or NAIA school. Only 2 games in high school have i given up 4 or more runs. what about JUCO's.

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Stunna...

2828...Right your are....but by my count not ONE pitcher of the 107, '05 early comitts I researched threw under 84.

Is this "Velocity inflation???"

observer- The guys who throw upper 80s and into the 90s are going to be the ones getting early offers like that, but there will be places for many "soft-throwing" pitchers to play at.

Atleast I hope so...

There will be plenty of places for those guys, just maybe not at the premier D1 schools.
(*note- please don't bombard me with lists of exceptions, yes i am aware that they exist.)

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The more I see, the more I too, am certain that there is place for most EVERY player that really wants to play in college, cares and works hard. (DII, DIII, NAIA, JC) Have seen players with little talent but great hustle, great work ethic, and full development of their own skills, turn heads.

And I am even more certain that a player who can pitch, not just throw has a place...though it may take him longer to be appreciated, and the initial options may not be the same.

Again it is a matter of getting youself in front of, and in contact with, the right people and choosing the right fit.

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I am simply saying about being hung up on velocity is too many parent and players are shooting for DI...and everyone thinks it's about velocity...the guy at ASU, Miami, Texas...the lefties throwing 83...guess what, it's about getting guys out! Every HS parent thinks their kid is pro material and want them to go to some big DI school...I am simply saying get off it and go where you have the opportunity to develop...if your good enough in time, you will be noticed...but it doesn't do you any good to collect splinters for 2-3 years...as for the recruiting aspect...there has to be some velocity to be noticed...but saying their is emphasis...many schools are looking for 78-81 with effectiveness...if you throw harder, great, but than the belief is their the next to stud...I see it year in and year out...and I watch kids transfer year in and year out...parents and players just need to realize their kids may not be able to compete at that level right away!

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VJC...would agree.

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I agree people are too hung up on velocity but let's face the facts. If you have a hard fastball and any kind of off speed you have a much better chance of getting the outs. The proscouts do it for a sack of groceries so they have to know what works. Same with college coaches. My son is not big and not a hard thrower so he knows his chances for big time D1 or pro ball are very slim. Should that keep him from trying to find a place to play. Of course not..so he is working on his grades, ACT, and SAT and hoping to find a place that can use him.

By the way my brother-in-law is a scout for the cardinals yes the St. Louis Cards and he never looks for a pitcher without his Stalker.

quote:

My son is not big and not a hard thrower so he knows his chances for big time D1 or pro ball are very slim. Should that keep him from trying to find a place to play. Of course not..so he is working on his grades, ACT, and SAT and hoping to find a place that can use him.

Very well said...

Always an interesting topic. My son is a 6'4" 175lb LHP and he is toping out at 84mph. He pitches at 78-82. He is a Canadian who had great exposure to American schools playing against many top US teams.He is a freshman at a Di 4year school in the South. He had interest from all levels of schools from all over the US. We sent videos to about 20 schools. We were honest about his velocity and not 1 school balked at his velocity. The hardest job we had was getting the big schools to look at the video. He had invites from top 10 D1 JUCOs in Florida, Iowa etc.Most of them were willing to make offers sight unseen. Some said he had to go for a workout and would not make an offer based on the video. The school he signed with made him an offer that we turned down and he went digging for more money. We finally arrived at an acceptable amout. Most of the money was academic in all offers. Velocity is important but getting people out is more important. Show them you can do that and you can go anywhere.

Bobblehead - The most impressive thing and in my opinion one of the most important is that you were honest concerning his velocity. That is not very common but it lets the coaches know that you are being realistic.

One thing to remember is that 84 Canadian is equal to at least 90 US don't you think?

..probably so Benchwarmer, but 6'4" 175 lb. turns into 6'4" 210 and 84 turns into 93 pretty easy and sometimes 100.

One of my most favorite observations, too.......