Son just returned from his 1st overnight camp...great experience at a AAA Facility. They did some testing with the kids, and he threw 56 mph at age 10. Is that a decent speed for his age?
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At the age of 10 the young man should be concentrating on control and location---the velocity will come
It isn't bad, it isn't great. They change so much over the next couple years that there's no way to tell at this point.
As far "the velocity will come" that isn't always true and some kids will benefit from working on developing their velocity through long toss, etc.
I'm just not sure when it makes sense to start working on it. Some will tell you to start now, some will tell you to wait until he's much more physically mature.
We have a kid in our area who pitched in the LLWS and was hitting 74 at 12yo. Last time I heard at 18yo he was topping out at 86, seldom threw over 84 and was still a very good pitcher who will be pitching for an Ivy league school. A few other kids from that district who weren't throwing as hard at 12 now throw a lot harder and have major D1 scholarships. One of them was also a fifth round draft choice.
What's the moral of that story?
1. There's no guarantee that throwing hard at 12 will mean throwing hard at 18.
2. A good pitcher can pitch in college without throwing 90, especially if he has good grades.
3. Throwing 90+ will get you noticed.
As far "the velocity will come" that isn't always true and some kids will benefit from working on developing their velocity through long toss, etc.
I'm just not sure when it makes sense to start working on it. Some will tell you to start now, some will tell you to wait until he's much more physically mature.
We have a kid in our area who pitched in the LLWS and was hitting 74 at 12yo. Last time I heard at 18yo he was topping out at 86, seldom threw over 84 and was still a very good pitcher who will be pitching for an Ivy league school. A few other kids from that district who weren't throwing as hard at 12 now throw a lot harder and have major D1 scholarships. One of them was also a fifth round draft choice.
What's the moral of that story?
1. There's no guarantee that throwing hard at 12 will mean throwing hard at 18.
2. A good pitcher can pitch in college without throwing 90, especially if he has good grades.
3. Throwing 90+ will get you noticed.
Great thoughts by CADad and TRhit.
I would only add to their comments that your son is just 10 years old right now, and has a big amount of development to do physically and mentally. What he throws right now really doesn't matter, or measure much at all how he will project later on.
Just continue to teach proper conditioning habits and fundamentals for him to eventually grow into.
Stu
I would only add to their comments that your son is just 10 years old right now, and has a big amount of development to do physically and mentally. What he throws right now really doesn't matter, or measure much at all how he will project later on.
Just continue to teach proper conditioning habits and fundamentals for him to eventually grow into.
Stu
It doesn't matter. Every kid will grow differently. It matters once he gets into HS.
Keep it simple and keep it fun. No need to worry about Stalker readings at 10.
quote:Originally posted by turnin2:
Son just returned from his 1st overnight camp...great experience at a AAA Facility. They did some testing with the kids, and he threw 56 mph at age 10. Is that a decent speed for his age?
Yea, that's decent for his age, but a lot can change over the years. Yes it is good he is throwing with decent velocity at a young age but I have seen so many kids throw through the years and a lot changes. I remember being so happy when my kid first started pitching and also had decent velocity but was also worried about his mechanics the first two years (he never got sideways when he pitched the first year- it was all arm). Then over the following years he just naturally grew and changed his mechanics and now pitches better.
My son was pretty much the same velocity as your son at 10 (54-56). It is perfectly fine to wonder about velocity even at his age- after all, I too was worried about it at that age just as I am still worried about it the same now (4 years later). If everything goes well, meaning, that he grows, has good mechanics and continues to improve, can pitch without joint pain, then he will blossom into a good pitcher with continued decent velocity. Really watch for where pain occurs in the young arm. Some slight tricep and bicep pain from time to time is ok, just really watch for kid complaining of elbow or shoulder joint pain- it is a signe that mechanics are off somewhere and can lead to lower velocity or a short pitching career.
As I remeber, here are my sons velocity since 10-
10 yrs. 54-56mph
11 yrs. 59-63mph
12 yrs. 65-68mph
13 yrs. 69-72mph
14 yrs. 74-79mph
quote:
Originally posted by turnin2:
Son just returned from his 1st overnight camp...great experience at a AAA Facility. They did some testing with the kids, and he threw 56 mph at age 10. Is that a decent speed for his age?
Maybe it's me but I can't honestly see why gunning a kid at 10yrs old is even being done! Are you kidding?
Right now he should be learning the basics of baseball and more importantly - just having fun!
The next thing he should learn if he's going to be a pitcher are pitching mechanics. Note that I did not say how to throw hard. HOW to pitch.
I'm sorry but this just blows my mind that emphasis are put on velocity for a kid this young.
YGD
My top 3 tips for 10yo:
1. Work on technique.
2. Work on learning every grip - don't have to use them in a game.
3. Don't pitch more than 2-3 innings per game.
(Radar guns won't hurt you)
1. Work on technique.
2. Work on learning every grip - don't have to use them in a game.
3. Don't pitch more than 2-3 innings per game.
(Radar guns won't hurt you)
Alright, guess I should have been more specific in the reason for my question. Truthfully I could care less how hard he throws according to Stalker or Jugs or anything else. They said they did the velocity test to show the kids how technique can improve results, and so the kid could see their improvements. I only wondered because several coaches commented in surprise "he"s only 10?" So curiosity stirred and I hoped somebody like the person a few posts up could give some insight on their kid. I'm not making a plan like Bryce Harper is in the next room! I know how he does in our local league and Super Series and wanted to see how other kids his age do. He does have very good mechanics, I've coaches HS ball long enough to know kids change and development rates change, again OTHER people seemed to be impressed, and it made me wonder, maybe even more so when he threw harder than several older kids, if that was good for his age. Thanks for the responses.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by turnin2:
They said they did the velocity test to show the kids how technique can improve results, and so the kid could see their improvements.
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This would be much more plausible in why he was timed and would be a great learning tool.
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He does have very good mechanics
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In the years that I've been involved in baseball I can honestly say that Ive never seen a 10yr old that had "very good" mechanics. I'm not trying to split hairs here but 99.9% of kids this age are just learning the how-to of pitching, and that's ok. No 10yr old is polished with mechanics.
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Dad, I too had a son at age 10 who seemed to throw harder than other kids his age. When I noticed this there were 2 things very obvious to me: 1 - his litle league coach had not clue about how to teach pitching to my son and 2 - I needed to find some kind of pitching videos to teach him the proper way to pitch.
You know how hard he throws now so put it aside and find someone (if not yourself) who can teach him the finer things about pitching. Velocity at this age IMO should not be any focus at all.
Good luck.
Originally posted by turnin2:
They said they did the velocity test to show the kids how technique can improve results, and so the kid could see their improvements.
________________________________________________
This would be much more plausible in why he was timed and would be a great learning tool.
________________________________________________
He does have very good mechanics
________________________________________________
In the years that I've been involved in baseball I can honestly say that Ive never seen a 10yr old that had "very good" mechanics. I'm not trying to split hairs here but 99.9% of kids this age are just learning the how-to of pitching, and that's ok. No 10yr old is polished with mechanics.
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Dad, I too had a son at age 10 who seemed to throw harder than other kids his age. When I noticed this there were 2 things very obvious to me: 1 - his litle league coach had not clue about how to teach pitching to my son and 2 - I needed to find some kind of pitching videos to teach him the proper way to pitch.
You know how hard he throws now so put it aside and find someone (if not yourself) who can teach him the finer things about pitching. Velocity at this age IMO should not be any focus at all.
Good luck.
My son was timed at a camp when he was 10 or 11, and was in the low to mid 60s. He doesn't pitch now, so I can't extrapolate.
Having watched kids go from 10 to 16, I can say it is very hard to predict which ones will continue to improve over the years and which will be late bloomers. Hitting is a great thing to watch - many of the ball smashers at 12 struggle hitting the curve ball at 15, for instance, so the batting order gets shaken up.
Fun to watch - every year is an adventure. Enjoy!
Having watched kids go from 10 to 16, I can say it is very hard to predict which ones will continue to improve over the years and which will be late bloomers. Hitting is a great thing to watch - many of the ball smashers at 12 struggle hitting the curve ball at 15, for instance, so the batting order gets shaken up.
Fun to watch - every year is an adventure. Enjoy!
Gingerbreadman...
I want you and this other gentleman to know that I am not here by any means to blast or ridicule anyone. I promise. Though I have given my opinion on the subject and it may have not come across politically correct, I gave it only because of the things I have seen and experienced over the years when dealing when young kids who want to pitch.
You've heard the saying "even a blind squirrel finds a nut here and there"...well..your "teaching" of just throwing harder if he's struggling will help him find the strike zone is laughable. But hey, if it worked for your son I tip my hat to you. What you should have taught him is to make the proper adjustment with his mechanics on the mound. That is where a pitcher begins to find the zone again.
What age is your son now? I'm curious. If he has college pitching coaches and scouts telling him that he will be a good pitcher some day then I'd guess he is in HS? Working hard and refining his mechanics are 2 of the most important ingredients he can do if he wants to pitch past HS. I speak from experience.
Again, I disagree with your statement "No matter what a lot of people say, always focus on maintaing good velocity when he pitches". Why? Because as your and Turnin2's sons get older they (and you) will realize that velocity is not the only thing to pitching and getting batters out. Developing "wrinkles" with a 2nd and 3rd pitch will be just as important. They accentuate the FB.
Teach them how to be consistent on their mechanics and their velocity should never be a question.
My son is a pitcher in college and even he will tell you than making an adjustment with his mechanics during a game himself is what helps keep him on track and successful, not throwing harder.
Videoing is not a bad idea. I'd recommend that you also do it while practicing on mechanics so that you will have a reference point after a game to show where a breakdown may have occurred.
I want you and this other gentleman to know that I am not here by any means to blast or ridicule anyone. I promise. Though I have given my opinion on the subject and it may have not come across politically correct, I gave it only because of the things I have seen and experienced over the years when dealing when young kids who want to pitch.
You've heard the saying "even a blind squirrel finds a nut here and there"...well..your "teaching" of just throwing harder if he's struggling will help him find the strike zone is laughable. But hey, if it worked for your son I tip my hat to you. What you should have taught him is to make the proper adjustment with his mechanics on the mound. That is where a pitcher begins to find the zone again.
What age is your son now? I'm curious. If he has college pitching coaches and scouts telling him that he will be a good pitcher some day then I'd guess he is in HS? Working hard and refining his mechanics are 2 of the most important ingredients he can do if he wants to pitch past HS. I speak from experience.
Again, I disagree with your statement "No matter what a lot of people say, always focus on maintaing good velocity when he pitches". Why? Because as your and Turnin2's sons get older they (and you) will realize that velocity is not the only thing to pitching and getting batters out. Developing "wrinkles" with a 2nd and 3rd pitch will be just as important. They accentuate the FB.
Teach them how to be consistent on their mechanics and their velocity should never be a question.
My son is a pitcher in college and even he will tell you than making an adjustment with his mechanics during a game himself is what helps keep him on track and successful, not throwing harder.
Videoing is not a bad idea. I'd recommend that you also do it while practicing on mechanics so that you will have a reference point after a game to show where a breakdown may have occurred.
Again just trying to see what some other kids his age are doing. As for myself I was a successful 2-way player in HS and the D2 level, had some pro-ball interest, life choices changed that. I've coached HS for 13 years and have had some very successful players. At 10 he does have good mechanics, but I will say "what are good mechanics?" He uses his lower body well, leads with his front hip, has a good arm slot, extends well, throws in front of front leg...does he need work, of course! He's 10! Many would say Lincecum doesn't have good mechanics, nor the kid at UCLA, but mechanics, whether hitting or pitching, are generally unique to the individual due to their strengths.
Younggundad,
Just to clarify a little bit. When son was 10 the notion was around the league (and I am sure it is the same everywhere) was that when you are starting to struggle, because of nerves or who knows, to slow down and lob a strike in there. From that logic I have seen way too many kids develop slow "placement" strikes right down the gut that ends up getting hammered. I took a different approach realizing that often times a young pitcher is too worried about placement versus throwing hard. We instead took the road of throwing a little harder forces the body to refine mechanics and repeat the mechanics more efficiently with a more consistant arm path and release point. All I can say is it works- at least for my son. It works for batting also. When son struggles hitting i take him out and throw wiffle balls as hard as I can at him which I believe forces him to cut out all of the wierd "wiggles" and "glitches" out of the motion forcing him to have a more efficient swing path.
As for my son, he is 14 years old and will be a freshman in HS in the fall. He already has developed both a change-up and breaking ball. He has pitched well because of the great movement he gets on all three of his pitches. The coaches at the camps have said- "has great arm side run", and "has a live arm" on the papers. There are others his age that throw harder around where we play but none have as great clutch and control as he has when it counts. Personally i believe it comes from repeating a more consistant velocity throughout games.
I have also taught son to throw breaking ball and CU with a high level of velocity- never fall into the trap of trying to slow down and place those pitches. If the breaking ball doesn;t break as much because it is faster doesn't mean it isn't a good pitch, but perhaps it is a greater pitch when a high level of velocity is maintained and he can sell the arm motion better and get deeper before the ball breaks hard..
Just to clarify a little bit. When son was 10 the notion was around the league (and I am sure it is the same everywhere) was that when you are starting to struggle, because of nerves or who knows, to slow down and lob a strike in there. From that logic I have seen way too many kids develop slow "placement" strikes right down the gut that ends up getting hammered. I took a different approach realizing that often times a young pitcher is too worried about placement versus throwing hard. We instead took the road of throwing a little harder forces the body to refine mechanics and repeat the mechanics more efficiently with a more consistant arm path and release point. All I can say is it works- at least for my son. It works for batting also. When son struggles hitting i take him out and throw wiffle balls as hard as I can at him which I believe forces him to cut out all of the wierd "wiggles" and "glitches" out of the motion forcing him to have a more efficient swing path.
As for my son, he is 14 years old and will be a freshman in HS in the fall. He already has developed both a change-up and breaking ball. He has pitched well because of the great movement he gets on all three of his pitches. The coaches at the camps have said- "has great arm side run", and "has a live arm" on the papers. There are others his age that throw harder around where we play but none have as great clutch and control as he has when it counts. Personally i believe it comes from repeating a more consistant velocity throughout games.
I have also taught son to throw breaking ball and CU with a high level of velocity- never fall into the trap of trying to slow down and place those pitches. If the breaking ball doesn;t break as much because it is faster doesn't mean it isn't a good pitch, but perhaps it is a greater pitch when a high level of velocity is maintained and he can sell the arm motion better and get deeper before the ball breaks hard..
I give up.
Good luck to both of you.
YGD
Good luck to both of you.
YGD
quote:Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
I give up.
Good luck to both of you.
YGD
turnin2,
My advice to you is to be very careful of certain advice and parental "pitching techniques" given on a message board.
At 10 there is only one thing that you should be concerned with your player, developing and maintaining good mechanics and placement of the fast ball. He can begin experimenting with the CU as his off speed pitch, I suggest no curveballs to be thrown in games until 14,15.
Despite what's written here, the harder a young pitcher throws the more problems he will develop later on. In fact, IMO, the later you start your player pitching, the better off he will be. Keep it simple as suggested and have fun.
Research has proven that the hardest pitch on an arm is the fastball, not the curve-ball. There is nothing wrong with pitching at an early age or throwing hard at an early age. It is true that some kids should wait or limit their pitching- perhaps the few minority who have such bad mechanics that joint pain is persistant from little league all through HS. For them it don't matter when they start pitching- they will always have problems. My son knows a kid who always asks him if his arm hurts after pitching because his arm hurts. My son has been pitching for a few years longer than the other kid- not that it has anything to do with it, just stating the fact that starting pitching at an early age has nothing to do with arm problems later on. That philosophy is complete bull#@%$ if you ask me. If a young kid can pitch without joint and arm pain and doesn't over-pitch he will develop a much stronger and healthier arm by the time he gets to HS- just my opinion, but I am sticking by it.
Ok. I'm picking my flag up off the ground to chime in once more.
I don't think anyone is saying throwing hard is a bad thing nor that pitching at an early age is either. It's just that a Dad's focus for a young pitcher should be on proper mechanics, having fun, and one more I will add...making sure your son is not being over-used and/or "fatigued". Overuse of a young arm is a killer on arms. Thus the reasoning behind why the LL has a pitch count in place now. Kudos to them.
Don't believe me on fatigue? Ever heard of Dr. James Andrews? Read this: Fatigue the key risk
And one last thing. Your comment "if a young kid can pitch without joint and arm pain and doesn't over-pitch he will develop a much stronger and healthier arm" isn't exactly correct. A good long-toss program, various band work, and arm conditioning will develop a healthier arm. I know it may be semantics but I wanted to clarify that point.
If both of you are coaching your sons, then Im preaching to the choir about over-using your son in a season or worse...a year. But some over-zealous coaches see a kid who throws hard and next thing you know he's tossing the egg more than the others and helping get out of a pinch in a close game after tossing 65 pitches 2 nights before.
I don't think anyone is saying throwing hard is a bad thing nor that pitching at an early age is either. It's just that a Dad's focus for a young pitcher should be on proper mechanics, having fun, and one more I will add...making sure your son is not being over-used and/or "fatigued". Overuse of a young arm is a killer on arms. Thus the reasoning behind why the LL has a pitch count in place now. Kudos to them.
Don't believe me on fatigue? Ever heard of Dr. James Andrews? Read this: Fatigue the key risk
And one last thing. Your comment "if a young kid can pitch without joint and arm pain and doesn't over-pitch he will develop a much stronger and healthier arm" isn't exactly correct. A good long-toss program, various band work, and arm conditioning will develop a healthier arm. I know it may be semantics but I wanted to clarify that point.
If both of you are coaching your sons, then Im preaching to the choir about over-using your son in a season or worse...a year. But some over-zealous coaches see a kid who throws hard and next thing you know he's tossing the egg more than the others and helping get out of a pinch in a close game after tossing 65 pitches 2 nights before.
All good thoughts. I promise you as a player who was overpitched in high school, I am very aware as to how much my son, or any player I coach is throwing.
Dr. James Andrews has some great reads, as do Orel Hershiser, Tom House, and many other of the NPA which I am a member of.
Here again, I was just trying to see where his velocity stands compared to kids his age...boys I have a Jugs and Bushnell at school, never once put them on him. Some good thoughts and opinions though.
Dr. James Andrews has some great reads, as do Orel Hershiser, Tom House, and many other of the NPA which I am a member of.
Here again, I was just trying to see where his velocity stands compared to kids his age...boys I have a Jugs and Bushnell at school, never once put them on him. Some good thoughts and opinions though.
