Velocity in your area

...this thread has been infected by the statsgnats strawman virus....

 

 

I would say the high 70's low 80's would be about average for my area...

Well we kind of got off the topic here.  Here is how I look at the radar gun.  I see it as both a scouting and development tool.  I see it as being similar to the stop watch or laser timing equipment. I see it as an unsophisticated TrackMan. I see it the same way I see score keeping. All the above are used to measure players ability one way or another.  Every player strives to throw the hardest, run the fastest, have the best curveball, show the best results.

 

If we want to blame the radar gun, we need to first blame all those college coaches and the entire scouting community that uses a radar gun.  But think about this... If there were 100 college coaches and scouts at a game and not one single radar gun... Would the pitcher try to show off his very best fastball? Or would he take it easy because there is no gun around? Haven't pitchers tried to throw there very best fastball since the beginning of the sport?  All the radar gun does is tell us how fast they are really throwing it.  But eye sight alone tells us when one pitcher is throwing much faster than another. There's just not an exact number associated with it.

 

"Wanting" to throw your best fastball or curveball or change up, has nothing to do with the radar gun.  

 

The only argument I can consider is that the radar gun from a developmental standpoint has probably played a part in why we see so many more high velocity pitchers these days.  Instructors sometimes use the radar readings to help create mechanical changes. Lower than average velocity guys end up training better and harder because they know their velocity Is less than the competition.  At the same time the gun helps them get speed differentials to be more effective.  The TrackMan tells them their curveball has the wrong path and spin rate to be considered high level. At the same time the medical field has improved greatly.  I do think there is a connection between high velocity and TJ surgery.  I actually know that there are more high velocity pitchers these days than ever before.  So that is the only way I can see the radar gun possibly contributing to arm injury.  But it is not because the kid is "trying" to throw the ball hard. It is because he "can" throw the ball hard. Most all of them are "trying"!  The boy that tops out at 55 mph can have 1,000 radar guns pointed at him and he can try to throw it as hard as he possibly can, without much risk of injury. The kid that tops out at 95 mph is much more likely to be injured with Zero radar guns present.

 

I don't claim to know it all, far from it, but in my opinion players throw as hard as they can and run as fast as they can, and hit it as hard as they can, at times. And

 

then there is this... The radar gun is not going anywhere.  In fact, more and more technology developed to get accurate measurements is coming fast.  So rather than blaming the gun, why not just live with what it does. Because if a pitcher is good enough, sooner or later, he is going to have those guns pointed at him. It's just unavoidable.

Originally Posted by PGStaff:

…"Wanting" to throw your best fastball or curveball or change up, has nothing to do with the radar gun.  …

 

That’s been true for over 100 years and will likely be true for the next 100 as well. Allow me ask you this. Are you a proponent of coaches or parents counseling pitchers to throw every pitch as hard as they can, with no other information? When he was 10, should I have told my son to forget worrying about getting batters out using whatever skills he possessed, and to just concentrate on throwing as hard as possible?

 

I totally agree that technology is here to stay and that it has an important role in the game. My only problem with it is that I think there are different things appropriated for different levels of the game, and I don’t see the necessity for it at every level. That’s all. Some people think it’s necessary to gun 10YOs, but I don’t, any more than I believe it’s necessary to have pitch and hit f/x along with MLBAM for a 10YO.

Stats,

 

All the levels are different, but the game is the same.  The best use for a radar gun at a young age is for development.  Really not even necessary for that either.  I will say that data is always important, from the crib to the grave, the more data we have the more we are able to learn. So from a gathering data standpoint, I think there could be some value.

 

That brings me to another subject but it will come up soon here on the HSBBW and I will need to respond.  My response is always based on caring that people understand why we do certain things.  

 

I tell our people, every new thing we do, can never be solely based on profit.  The first thing we have to think about is whether what we do is good for the game of baseball.  If we can answer yes to that question, there is a good chance our plan will be successful. If the only reason for doing something is the money, there is almost a certain chance we will fail.  Though, I've seen it work for some, I believe we would fail.

 

Anyway to answer your question,  about 10 year olds.  I think they should be having fun.  For some 10 year olds fun is just getting out there and running around.  For others it is most fun when they are competing against other talented kids.  I can't tell a kid which one is the most fun, he would have to tell me.  Anyway, I don't know of any pitcher who ever lived that I would suggest throwing every pitch as hard as he can, let alone a 10 year old.

 

Most successful pitchers and hitters at any age, throw or swing somewhere below 100% effort.  Even the max effort guys.  Because at 100% effort you lose a lot of things that can make you successful.  Also because 100% + adrenalin is likely to cause complete failure. Loss of control, not just control of the pitch, but control over what the parts of your body are doing.  So of course the last thing I would ever tell a 10 year old is to throw every pitch as hard as you can.  But here's the deal, no matter what that 10 year old is told, there will be times when he throws it as hard as he can.  Because that is exactly what most everyone that has ever played the game has done.  

 

Originally Posted by PGStaff:

All the levels are different, but the game is the same.  The best use for a radar gun at a young age is for development.  Really not even necessary for that either.  I will say that data is always important, from the crib to the grave, the more data we have the more we are able to learn. So from a gathering data standpoint, I think there could be some value.

 

Well, you’ve sure said a lot in that little paragraph. In truth I’m being pulled in 2 different directions here. Being data driven, I have to agree that there is incalculable value in data which is why I keep harping on a national database for pitchers that extends from crib to grave. I also have to agree that a gun can be a very useful development tool, but I wonder how often it’s actually used for that by competent people.

 

That brings me to another subject but it will come up soon here on the HSBBW and I will need to respond.  My response is always based on caring that people understand why we do certain things.  

 

I tell our people, every new thing we do, can never be solely based on profit.  The first thing we have to think about is whether what we do is good for the game of baseball.  If we can answer yes to that question, there is a good chance our plan will be successful. If the only reason for doing something is the money, there is almost a certain chance we will fail.  Though, I've seen it work for some, I believe we would fail.

 

I’ve never thought of you operating in any other way, but I’m sure you’d agree that unfortunately that can’t be said for everyone in the game. Old farts like myself don’t usually have a lot of trouble identifying the wheat from the chaff, but it’s really difficult for those just beginning their journey to do that, and that’s where the problems lie.

 

Anyway to answer your question,  about 10 year olds.  I think they should be having fun.  For some 10 year olds fun is just getting out there and running around.  For others it is most fun when they are competing against other talented kids.  I can't tell a kid which one is the most fun, he would have to tell me.  Anyway, I don't know of any pitcher who ever lived that I would suggest throwing every pitch as hard as he can, let alone a 10 year old.

 

Most successful pitchers and hitters at any age, throw or swing somewhere below 100% effort.  Even the max effort guys.  Because at 100% effort you lose a lot of things that can make you successful.  Also because 100% + adrenalin is likely to cause complete failure. Loss of control, not just control of the pitch, but control over what the parts of your body are doing.  So of course the last thing I would ever tell a 10 year old is to throw every pitch as hard as you can.  But here's the deal, no matter what that 10 year old is told, there will be times when he throws it as hard as he can.  Because that is exactly what most everyone that has ever played the game has done.  

 

I’m glad to see we agree in principal. As far as I can tell, the only place we don’t agree is the efficacy of using the gun on young kids. I believe a little kid seeing the gun on him during a game will often make changes beyond only going from 95% to 100% effort which would be “normal” for anyone when the pressure’s on.

 

I will say this though. If every pitch a pitcher threw was being gunned and he knew it, the chances he would do something against his best interests to get a number would be almost nil, and that’s something the top pitchers get. But here’s what I see on a recurring basis. Scouts show up at a HS game to see Sammy Stud, and Sammy’s getting gunned on nearly every pitch by 5 scouts. Meanwhile his opponent for the day is Billy, who’s a typical HSV starter, definitely above average, but not in Sammy’s league. Billy gets a little peeved because no one’s gunning him, so what’s he do? Cranks it up. And if a scout happens to put the gun on him and he notices it, what he do then? Cranks it up even more. At that point the game becomes secondary, and to me it’s unfair to the team of the pitcher who does it.

I dont believe in measuring velocity until the player moves to the larger field and into HS.

Just like everything else, the more you are exposed to something the more comfortable you feel with it.  So using a device to measure velo at the appropriate age and time is appropriate.  

 

A pitcher should always throw his fastball with the intent to throw it hard.  

 

The experienced coach will always know when to visit the mound for instruction when he sees something is not working.  

 

If Billy keeps cranking it up and not doing well, its the coaches job to pay a visit to the mound, but there is nothing wrong with trying to throw harder, cant tell you how many pitchers have gotten great chances because a college coach or scout noticed they had some stuff there that wasnt when he last saw the teams meet.

 

I dont always agree with PGstaff, thats what makes this site so special, you do not have to agree with someone elses opinion. I am not sure there is anyone here who has more experience than he does in amatuer baseball.  

 

I just dont understand the constant challenge to what he posts by the same person, over and over and over.

 

JMO

 

Great post



> On Sep 5, 2015, at 12:36 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:
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