We all have interest in this position.
Lets see some clips with comments.
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Closer to Real Time
Here it is boys. For a limited time only. Do you have the guts to post yours?
THE QUESTION....(my answer later)
Where in this sequence do you think I would catch the ball. For discussion sake, assume it's a good pitch to handle.
BTW, this 52 year old throw registered 68mph on the speed check. If you can have a pop time of under 2.0 with a 75mph throw, I'm still close.........Can you figure out where in the motion I'd catch the ball?
If you're kind, I'll post a clip receiving the ball later. If not........
2nd try.
What do you think of this guy?
Linear,
Looks pretty darn athletic for an old fat guy.
Just kiddin, of course... about the athletic part, that is!
Actually, that clip deserves an A+. Now can we see you swing the bat and pitch? Maybe we could compare Coach Chris and your pitching deliveries.
On second thought... let's don't!
Looks pretty darn athletic for an old fat guy.
Just kiddin, of course... about the athletic part, that is!
Actually, that clip deserves an A+. Now can we see you swing the bat and pitch? Maybe we could compare Coach Chris and your pitching deliveries.
On second thought... let's don't!
The ball would have to be caught just inside your right knee to throw it as you do in the video. You drop the ball under your elbow slightly as you load to throw, which could get your body out in front a little. But your release looks good for almost any age. Good job.
You do have really good arm action in your video Linear. I am impressed. I must say that you will be limited on how accurate you can be on all pitches using that method, but I would agree that an outside pitch near your right knee would be easily thrown with those mechanics.
quote:Originally posted by Coach A:
You do have really good arm action in your video Linear.
You better study arm action a little. I have a torn rotator cuff and can't raise my arm to throw properly. I have to push the ball instead of throw it. Yet, in fastpitch softball I still throw out the fastest 25 yr olds in the league. Hmmmmmm. Compare my arm height to the height of the professional catcher above. That is good arm action.
quote:I must say that you will be limited on how accurate you can be on all pitches using that method
Do you mean accurate as in throwing to 2B? Please. Never a problem on any pitch location.
quote:outside pitch near your right knee would be easily thrown with those mechanics.
You are suggesting that other locations are trouble. Simply not true. Any pitch from slightly farther than my forearm length inside on the glove side to a slightly smaller distance outside on the throwing side, are easily handled. In fact, if you're looking for which "extreme" pitch is hardest on these mechanics, it's the throwing hand side. Why, because the glove has to cross the body to get there and if far enough will force a loss of balance. Throws farther inside, the glove doesn't have to cross the body. They can be reached and still keep the glove elbow under control and keep it connected to the rotation. Here's something that may confuse you. Those throws to the glove side are just as quick but the transfer is later. Hmmmmm.
You folks are missing the good part of what you see.
Should that surprise me?
quote:Any pitch from slightly farther than my forearm length inside on the glove side to a slightly smaller distance outside on the throwing side, are easily handled.
Linear,
If possible, please show this technique on the inside pitch.
I once knew a great fast pitch softball catcher... Dick Zaccato SP?
He played on some National Championship teams. He would throw without moving his feet much at all. Similiar to what you're showing.
This technique will work between the center of the body and inside the right leg. The injury explains why the ball stays beneath the elbow in the load, which costs time and often leads to the arm trailing the body.
Linear,
you have a PM
you have a PM
I would like to see the pitch received and then the throwing---not a simulation
Remember this--every pitch is in a different location--
Remember this--every pitch is in a different location--
quote:Originally posted by Baseballdad1228:
This technique will work between the center of the body and inside the right leg. The injury explains why the ball stays beneath the elbow in the load, which costs time and often leads to the arm trailing the body.
You are quite the analyst. The injury happened when I dove for a short pop foul up the first base line. I tried to catch it with the bare hand. Bang bang type play. Arm was pronated at impact with ground. Happened when I was in my 30's. Arm couldn't take the weight of this body falling on to it.
I load the way I load because it's all I can do. Anything more is very painful.
Linear,
I viewed this in slow motion and I like the set up and the throwing motion. I just can't see many catchers being able to catch and pivot on the back foot and throw. The angle to the right with the body I wouldn't teach either, in baseball at least. I appreciate you taking the time to do this though. It might work with where you receive this pitch though. I'm going to try it myself. I don't play softball but are leadoffs allowed ? What is the distance of your throw ? I know you'll receive the ball quicker since the mound is shorter.
I viewed this in slow motion and I like the set up and the throwing motion. I just can't see many catchers being able to catch and pivot on the back foot and throw. The angle to the right with the body I wouldn't teach either, in baseball at least. I appreciate you taking the time to do this though. It might work with where you receive this pitch though. I'm going to try it myself. I don't play softball but are leadoffs allowed ? What is the distance of your throw ? I know you'll receive the ball quicker since the mound is shorter.
Thurman Munson used to drop to his right knee and throw sidearm when his shoulder was injured in 1975. It's about the result. The job is to get the ball to second as quickly as possible and deliver it in the best place to get a runner out. Your way works best for you with the tools you have.
quote:Originally posted by COACHBLU25:
It might work with where you receive this pitch though.
I didn't receive a pitch. The ball was in my hand the entire time.
quote:I don't play softball but are leadoffs allowed ? What is the distance of your throw ? I know you'll receive the ball quicker since the mound is shorter.
No lead offs. Bases are 60' I believe. Runner can't leave until the release. But, they stand in foul territory with lead foot on the base in sprinter style stance and time the release to get a "running start". Mound is 48-50 feet away. I don't know exact distance. Women throw from like 43 and men are 5-6 feet behind.
I have found a fast baserunner is equally difficult to throw out in softball as in baseball. Some say it is more difficult because it requires more quickness than arm strength and many have arm strength but not quickness.
The stance with the knees pointed toward the 2B is comfortable for me. Especially when I'm just demonstrating. In a game I can square up if I need to (meaning pitcher is all over the place) and still achieve the preload that you see while the pitch is coming.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:
I have to push the ball instead of throw it. Yet, in fastpitch softball I still throw out the fastest 25 yr olds in the league.
Of course I am interested in your fastpitch experience.
Where in the mid-west?
Who pitched?
St. Louis. Not a fastpitch hot bead. Our league has one or two "national" quality teams. They go to the World Tournament every year and go 1-2 or 2-2 and out. Of course, a 52 year old isn't on one of them. But, that means this 52 year old has to compete against them.
The only pitcher that you might recognize...his name is/was Cooper. I don't recall his first name. He's no longer around. Unbelieveable good. From New Zealand. Was paid a nice liveable salary to play softball in the US for the summer. Then went home for our winter (their summer) Then back for our summer. He did this for several years. The rest of the pitching in our league was a level down from him.
Softball is dying due to lack of pitching. And, I'll never understand why graduated college baseball players are attracted to slow pitch softball when they could play fastpitch.
I'll say this also. Pick whatever mlb player you want. Pick Barry Bonds. He would not do well his first few at bats/games. The speed and the movement of the great pitchers from the short distance is extremely difficult.
Of course, he would make adjustments and then be outstanding....way better than everyone else.
Cooper was no Michael White or Peter Meredith. But, very very good. If Michael White/Peter Meredith = Randy Johnson in his prime then Cooper = Andy Pettitte in his prime.
In my prime we took 9th in the nation at the "A" level. A level down from "Major". 1988. Fargo ND.
To this day a play haunts me. 0-0 game. Bottom of 6th. Runner on second base. One out. Runner takes off to steal 3B. Unheard of. Batter bunts. Run & bunt. I field the bunt up the third baseline, throw to first, get the out. The return throw is late and run scores. We lose 1-0. I wish like hell I would've faked the throw to first and tagged the runner trying to score.
We lose next game in losers backet to a team from Superior Mn. Their right fielder was none other than............Brett Hull.
The only pitcher that you might recognize...his name is/was Cooper. I don't recall his first name. He's no longer around. Unbelieveable good. From New Zealand. Was paid a nice liveable salary to play softball in the US for the summer. Then went home for our winter (their summer) Then back for our summer. He did this for several years. The rest of the pitching in our league was a level down from him.
Softball is dying due to lack of pitching. And, I'll never understand why graduated college baseball players are attracted to slow pitch softball when they could play fastpitch.
I'll say this also. Pick whatever mlb player you want. Pick Barry Bonds. He would not do well his first few at bats/games. The speed and the movement of the great pitchers from the short distance is extremely difficult.
Of course, he would make adjustments and then be outstanding....way better than everyone else.
Cooper was no Michael White or Peter Meredith. But, very very good. If Michael White/Peter Meredith = Randy Johnson in his prime then Cooper = Andy Pettitte in his prime.
In my prime we took 9th in the nation at the "A" level. A level down from "Major". 1988. Fargo ND.
To this day a play haunts me. 0-0 game. Bottom of 6th. Runner on second base. One out. Runner takes off to steal 3B. Unheard of. Batter bunts. Run & bunt. I field the bunt up the third baseline, throw to first, get the out. The return throw is late and run scores. We lose 1-0. I wish like hell I would've faked the throw to first and tagged the runner trying to score.
We lose next game in losers backet to a team from Superior Mn. Their right fielder was none other than............Brett Hull.
quote:Originally posted by Linear:
You are quite the analyst. The injury happened when I dove for a short pop foul up the first base line. I tried to catch it with the bare hand. Bang bang type play. Arm was pronated at impact with ground. Happened when I was in my 30's. Arm couldn't take the weight of this body falling on to it.
I load the way I load because it's all I can do. Anything more is very painful.
I spend every day of my week breaking down arm action and how to throw more efficiently. The loading phase of your throw is great. Your elbow does drop below the shoulder as your throw which will cause problems, but I was trying to give you a compliment. I apologize for being too curtious. Us Texas boys are taught to use manners.
It sounds as though you have a personal vendetta against me, so I will leave it at that.
I will continue to keep this thread educational and enlightening so that questions continue to be asked and kids continue to improve. I apologize if I have offended you in any way. But you do load very well in your video. I am still impressed with that portion of your throwing mechanics.
No vendetta.
The quote of mine that you posted was directed to Baseballdad1228.
But, my arm action is very weak. I know what to do. Can't do it without pain. So, I do as much as I can. My arm loads OK but the elbow is very low during the throw.
If you study arm action so much, and you worry about kids getting the right information, don't insinuate that my arm action is good. Load, maybe. Arm action....no way.
I notice however that you skip my accuracy rebuttal and my rebuttal to the only pitch I can handle well is the one near the right knee.
I love to discuss this stuff. But, please back up what you say. I'm going to come with some video soon that will highly dispute your "pitch location" theory.
The quote of mine that you posted was directed to Baseballdad1228.
But, my arm action is very weak. I know what to do. Can't do it without pain. So, I do as much as I can. My arm loads OK but the elbow is very low during the throw.
If you study arm action so much, and you worry about kids getting the right information, don't insinuate that my arm action is good. Load, maybe. Arm action....no way.
I notice however that you skip my accuracy rebuttal and my rebuttal to the only pitch I can handle well is the one near the right knee.
I love to discuss this stuff. But, please back up what you say. I'm going to come with some video soon that will highly dispute your "pitch location" theory.
Linear,
Believe it or not when I was younger I played in one of the best Fast pitch leagues in the country. Major Open in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Many New Zealand pitchers and some of the very best American pitchers. This league was as close to professional softball as it gets. Lots of big sponsors and money handed out. Those New Zealanders would migrate to CR.
The league no longer exists (fast pitch died out). Michael White, Peter Meredith, Richie Stevens, Jerry Ralfs, Al Rousch, Greg Bosch, etc., etc. You ever play against any of these guys?
Stevens was the best (unhittable changeup) he and Jerry Ralfs led Welty Way to the ASA National Championship a long time ago. They went to the World Championship, but think finished 2nd in Phillipines. TeleConnect also won a National Championship or two, I believe with Michael White. I didn't play on those teams, but we played against them all the time. Great game... Fast Pitch Softball at that level.
Back to catching, Dick Zacatto was the catcher on that Welty Way team and I believe the MVP of the World Championship. He had decent arm strength, but catchers in softball definitely can't get by with just a cannon for an arm. Taking too long to throw, just won't work in that game. Seems like Zaccoto would just throw, no load, no turn, no footwork, no nothing, just catch and throw.
By the way, Hitting against those World Class pitchers was next to impossible!
Believe it or not when I was younger I played in one of the best Fast pitch leagues in the country. Major Open in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Many New Zealand pitchers and some of the very best American pitchers. This league was as close to professional softball as it gets. Lots of big sponsors and money handed out. Those New Zealanders would migrate to CR.
The league no longer exists (fast pitch died out). Michael White, Peter Meredith, Richie Stevens, Jerry Ralfs, Al Rousch, Greg Bosch, etc., etc. You ever play against any of these guys?
Stevens was the best (unhittable changeup) he and Jerry Ralfs led Welty Way to the ASA National Championship a long time ago. They went to the World Championship, but think finished 2nd in Phillipines. TeleConnect also won a National Championship or two, I believe with Michael White. I didn't play on those teams, but we played against them all the time. Great game... Fast Pitch Softball at that level.
Back to catching, Dick Zacatto was the catcher on that Welty Way team and I believe the MVP of the World Championship. He had decent arm strength, but catchers in softball definitely can't get by with just a cannon for an arm. Taking too long to throw, just won't work in that game. Seems like Zaccoto would just throw, no load, no turn, no footwork, no nothing, just catch and throw.
By the way, Hitting against those World Class pitchers was next to impossible!
Linear,
I applaud you for posting the clip. It looks as though you do a fine job. The second clip clearly illustrates the technique that I use with many of my catchers. I did notice that when watching both clips side-by-side that when the ball was in the loaded position after transfer that the same position was obtained. Do you feel that moving the feet slows down the transfer? If the transfer is not changed and the throwing position is obtained at the same time frame then it may be a factor of an individuals ability to gain the correct throwing position the fastest. I do think there are times when you must catch and throw and do not need to move your feet. I would worry about a catcher getting used to not having quick feet to move to the ball and doing too much reaching as opposed to moving into throwing position as they bring the ball in from a difficult location. But, perhaps I can be persuaded. I never close my mind to new ideas.
I applaud you for posting the clip. It looks as though you do a fine job. The second clip clearly illustrates the technique that I use with many of my catchers. I did notice that when watching both clips side-by-side that when the ball was in the loaded position after transfer that the same position was obtained. Do you feel that moving the feet slows down the transfer? If the transfer is not changed and the throwing position is obtained at the same time frame then it may be a factor of an individuals ability to gain the correct throwing position the fastest. I do think there are times when you must catch and throw and do not need to move your feet. I would worry about a catcher getting used to not having quick feet to move to the ball and doing too much reaching as opposed to moving into throwing position as they bring the ball in from a difficult location. But, perhaps I can be persuaded. I never close my mind to new ideas.
PG
Does the name Flockhart mean anything to you?
He's probably before your time.
First name Don I believe....could be wrong.
I lived across the block from him when I was a kid in Stanwood, Ia. His son and I were friends. One helluva fastpitch hitter. Unsure what position he played. Not a catcher though.
He played in the Cedar Rapids, Ia league.....I believe the name of his team was Falstaff.
Does the name Flockhart mean anything to you?
He's probably before your time.
First name Don I believe....could be wrong.
I lived across the block from him when I was a kid in Stanwood, Ia. His son and I were friends. One helluva fastpitch hitter. Unsure what position he played. Not a catcher though.
He played in the Cedar Rapids, Ia league.....I believe the name of his team was Falstaff.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
...He had decent arm strength, but catchers in softball definitely can't get by with just a cannon for an arm. Taking too long to throw, just won't work in that game...
And there is no reason why the same technique can't work in baseball.
Comes from the hips.....find the key in my delivery.
I bet no one finds it.
Linear,
Don't know that I agree with you completely. I've seen softball catchers that basically look like they just snap throw. (IMO) To throw the distance required in baseball without good rhythm and balance caused by quick footwork, I'm not so sure it would work. It's about the same as throwing from the knees, which some can do.
The key is you have your hips ready to throw as you transfer the ball (which you don't really transfer)
You must remember, I am older than you. "Keith" Flockhart played for Flecks Falstaff in the Major Open. They were another National Caliber team. He was older than me, but I remember him.
Stanwood? That's not that far from us! There was a real good player who came out of that town, but I have a brain cramp right now. If I think of him I'll let you know. Maybe you know who I'm talking about. How long you been gone from there.
Don't know that I agree with you completely. I've seen softball catchers that basically look like they just snap throw. (IMO) To throw the distance required in baseball without good rhythm and balance caused by quick footwork, I'm not so sure it would work. It's about the same as throwing from the knees, which some can do.
The key is you have your hips ready to throw as you transfer the ball (which you don't really transfer)
You must remember, I am older than you. "Keith" Flockhart played for Flecks Falstaff in the Major Open. They were another National Caliber team. He was older than me, but I remember him.
Stanwood? That's not that far from us! There was a real good player who came out of that town, but I have a brain cramp right now. If I think of him I'll let you know. Maybe you know who I'm talking about. How long you been gone from there.
PG, I see that he turns his hips by rotating the back foot. Catchers who throw from their knees turn their torso and shift the weight forward toward second. I believe Linear's example works in the area between the middle of the body and inside the right knee. Anything to the left of center would slow the transfer. Too far to the right would affect balance.
Linear,
I noticed that your left foot on first move slides about 3 inches before being planted.
I am assuming that it was because of the surface of the throwing area.
Would love to see it again without the left foot slide.
BTW - Not bad for an old man.
I noticed that your left foot on first move slides about 3 inches before being planted.
I am assuming that it was because of the surface of the throwing area.
Would love to see it again without the left foot slide.
BTW - Not bad for an old man.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
"Keith" Flockhart played for Flecks Falstaff in the Major Open. They were another National Caliber team. He was older than me, but I remember him.
Stanwood? That's not that far from us! There was a real good player who came out of that town, but I have a brain cramp right now. If I think of him I'll let you know. Maybe you know who I'm talking about. How long you been gone from there.
Keith is the man. Small world. I was in junior high when he was very active as a fastpitch player. His son Mike and the rest of the neighborhood all grew up into good players.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Linear,
Don't know that I agree with you completely. I've seen softball catchers that basically look like they just snap throw...
Of course you have to be able to break glass. But, the technique that the good ones use with 75mph arms will take a kid a long way. 80-85 mph arm, with the same technique will take them as far as their bat will take them.
My family moved from Stanwood to Mediapolis in 1970. Was the good player Jim Koering (sp)? Right handed pitcher. He'd be 5-8 years older than me.
Jim Koering "THAT'S HIM"
Big horse, went to Iowa and was a star pitcher. Jim also played fast pitch in the Major Open for many years. I think you have the age just about right. He was just a little younger than me.
Mediapolis, are you kidding me...
Jason Gerst, who is one of our national directors was born and raised in Mediapolis. Of course, he's only around 35 or so. Before Gerst, I thought Mediapolis only had girl basketball players living there.
It's a real small world. Thanks for waking up a few brain cells. Hope I don't Burn em all out today.
This is probably boring most people on here.
Big horse, went to Iowa and was a star pitcher. Jim also played fast pitch in the Major Open for many years. I think you have the age just about right. He was just a little younger than me.
Mediapolis, are you kidding me...
Jason Gerst, who is one of our national directors was born and raised in Mediapolis. Of course, he's only around 35 or so. Before Gerst, I thought Mediapolis only had girl basketball players living there.
It's a real small world. Thanks for waking up a few brain cells. Hope I don't Burn em all out today.
This is probably boring most people on here.
Linear
Your signed.
Shep
PS( Don't have the guts to post mine !!!)
Your signed.
Shep
PS( Don't have the guts to post mine !!!)
PG
Not boring at all, at least from my perspective
We all have experiences that interest others
Keep them coming-- we might have to open an OLD TIMERS page
Not boring at all, at least from my perspective
We all have experiences that interest others
Keep them coming-- we might have to open an OLD TIMERS page
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
Jim Koering "THAT'S HIM"
Big horse, went to Iowa and was a star pitcher. Jim also played fast pitch in the Major Open for many years. I think you have the age just about right. He was just a little younger than me.
Mediapolis, are you kidding me...
Jason Gerst, who is one of our national directors was born and raised in Mediapolis. Of course, he's only around 35 or so. Before Gerst, I thought Mediapolis only had girl basketball players living there.
It's a real small world. Thanks for waking up a few brain cells. Hope I don't Burn em all out today.
This is probably boring most people on here.
I was the best catcher to ever come out of Mediapolis.....not really saying much....community of 1500 or so...until the Van Tiger kid who went to Iowa State I believe.
That kid could hit, I hear, but he couldn't catch with me......and I couldn't hit with him.
I walked on at Iowa State.....kind of. The weekend of the tryouts was the weekend of my sister's wedding.
5'9" 160 lber.
I went to the Friday workout. Several catchers there. Claire Richardson, head coach, took our pop times. He took a double take on me. Later, afterward, he had me throw with some fast guy stealing. I was the only one asked to do this. I got him 2 out of 3.
I missed the hitting stuff on Sat when I went to the wedding.
No one ever contacted me.....can't blame them since I didn't show up on Sat.
My dad made a contact at Northeast Missouri State. I went on to play there. Played with Bruce Berenyi(5-6 year big league career)....and just before Al Nipper (Red Sox)....now Truman State.
There I got to play with Rick Sutcliffe's high school and summer team players. Met him at the funeral of one of the guys (my roommate) who was killed when he was hit in the temple by a pitched ball.....the Lamber....hard to believe he's been dead for 30 years.
Later played summer ball with several U of I players. Craig (I think that was his first name) Van Syoc was one of our pitchers. He said I would've started at U of I. Who knows.....Small town Iowa boys don't get many looks. I was a pretty fair walk-on for that DII school.
PG
Here's what you've been waiting for. Inside and outside pitch.
I apologize for no glove. Every glove we own is off to college between my two sons.
And, my freshman daughter was throwing the balls to me a various speeds, none of which were fast. It's easier with some zip on the ball than just being tossed in there.
It's
Concrete floor. Can't stop the sliding.
Here's what you've been waiting for. Inside and outside pitch.
I apologize for no glove. Every glove we own is off to college between my two sons.
And, my freshman daughter was throwing the balls to me a various speeds, none of which were fast. It's easier with some zip on the ball than just being tossed in there.
It's
Concrete floor. Can't stop the sliding.
What does the X mean ? X rated ? Moderater must have sensored it.
I'll ask Gerst if he knows you. He has some older brothers. Doubt, if they are as old as you, though.
WAIT!!! Do I even know your name?
WAIT!!! Do I even know your name?
This is what most call the load n throw. I think it is better called the catch, transfer, load and throw.
What I do is best called "load, unload, catch, transfer and finish the throw.
What I do is best called "load, unload, catch, transfer and finish the throw.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
...Gerst...
Gerst is a prominent name in that community.
Linear
I mean this with all sincereity> These clips of you are very good and give you great credibility as a teacher/instructor IMHO because not only do you understand the mechanics, you can also demonstrate and seperate yourself by doing so correctly in these clips. You took a chance pal and Shep is here to tell you there is no other 52 year old man on the face of this Earth that can come even close to your ability here in clips. Not trying to make your head swell or anything so don't get the big-head but I am serious. The surface is even slick as mentioned by PG but you can still handle inside and outside pitches with the best of dem. If you only knew what ya know now at age 18 or 19 yrs of age, you would really get signed, no joke, Signed!!!! Give yourself a pat on the back for ole Shepster because I've been told the same thing by several scouts. If we only knew then what we know now!!!! 
Shep
I mean this with all sincereity> These clips of you are very good and give you great credibility as a teacher/instructor IMHO because not only do you understand the mechanics, you can also demonstrate and seperate yourself by doing so correctly in these clips. You took a chance pal and Shep is here to tell you there is no other 52 year old man on the face of this Earth that can come even close to your ability here in clips. Not trying to make your head swell or anything so don't get the big-head but I am serious. The surface is even slick as mentioned by PG but you can still handle inside and outside pitches with the best of dem. If you only knew what ya know now at age 18 or 19 yrs of age, you would really get signed, no joke, Signed!!!! Give yourself a pat on the back for ole Shepster because I've been told the same thing by several scouts. If we only knew then what we know now!!!!
Shep
Linear,
For God's sake man - get some surface that wont make you slide like that - that has to cause a little more pain (and effort) than necessary. IMO.
Good stuff - and brave stuff - IMO.
For God's sake man - get some surface that wont make you slide like that - that has to cause a little more pain (and effort) than necessary. IMO.
Good stuff - and brave stuff - IMO.
