USA Baseball, MLB, and ASMI are now teamed up on a program called PitchSmart. Perhaps NFHS will propose some national standard for High Schools. As a last resort, state legislation might be in order. Check out VirginiaPitchCount.com
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I like the website, like the idea as a whole. One thing I have an issue with is that a player cannot catch and pitch in the same game. A lot of teams use catchers as a late reliever and I have no issue with that as long as it is monitored
Originally Posted by wahoo24:
I like the website, like the idea as a whole. One thing I have an issue with is that a player cannot catch and pitch in the same game. A lot of teams use catchers as a late reliever and I have no issue with that as long as it is monitored
I would prefer a rule that states that no catcher can pitch in the same game. That would be a lot easier to enforce.
Why do you have different rules for post season? Dose the kids arm need less rest than regular season. If this is for safety and regulating protection you cannot justify a change for the post season.
Would you really support pitch counts at the high school elvel based on age? I can see having different charts for varsity and jv, but not between a 16yo and 17yo. That would also be difficult to enforce.
We are in favor of the PitchSmart initiative. Our main goal is to educate parents and coaches. They are the ones that control things.
In the proposal I made to the VHSL a couple of years ago I went by JV and Varsity for the pitch count just to keep it more simple. But then you get the counter argument about using age - which is actually more valid. JV and Varsity was just an accommodation.
Post Season exceptions were because of the number of games in a short period of time. Agree it would be best to keep the standard regardless. I would rather lengthen the season to accommodate but most would disagree. It's a compromise. Even with these exceptions it's far better than VHSLs 2 day rest and early return.
Originally Posted by PGStaff:
We are in favor of the PitchSmart initiative. Our main goal is to educate parents and coaches. They are the ones that control things.
Parents don't control anything in the VHSL - we aren't even allowed to be members. Parent is a dirty word to many coaches - our HS coach was an exception.
One man's observation:
Player plays for his high school team. He's a pitcher. Player also receives "lessons" from a former pro. Player "takes lessons" once a week.
How do you supervise that? That issue is completely out of the jurisdiction of what occurs on the playing field through VHSL sanctioned games, yet it does not keep the player from throwing extra bullpens. In my observation, this is most often driven by the parents, not the player.
Further, to get any meaningful work done, and "get your monies worth", one would have to assume that 50-75 pitches are being thrown.
Originally Posted by GoHeels:
One man's observation:
Player plays for his high school team. He's a pitcher. Player also receives "lessons" from a former pro. Player "takes lessons" once a week.
How do you supervise that? That issue is completely out of the jurisdiction of what occurs on the playing field through VHSL sanctioned games, yet it does not keep the player from throwing extra bullpens. In my observation, this is most often driven by the parents, not the player.
Further, to get any meaningful work done, and "get your monies worth", one would have to assume that 50-75 pitches are being thrown.
Obviously in this case it's on the parents and the pitching instructor. The instructors my son went to went into an arm maintenance mode during the season. Mostly stretching and exercises and light throwing if any. Pitchers need to throw bullpens between games - but those can be controlled. Pick your instructors carefully.
You can't go down the road of "if I can't control everything I can't control anything". First of all it's not true. Secondly, in prevents progress.
Originally Posted by granbyfan:
Why do you have different rules for post season? Dose the kids arm need less rest than regular season. If this is for safety and regulating protection you cannot justify a change for the post season.
Agree 1000%.
Originally Posted by RickF:
Originally Posted by GoHeels:
One man's observation:
Player plays for his high school team. He's a pitcher. Player also receives "lessons" from a former pro. Player "takes lessons" once a week.
How do you supervise that? That issue is completely out of the jurisdiction of what occurs on the playing field through VHSL sanctioned games, yet it does not keep the player from throwing extra bullpens. In my observation, this is most often driven by the parents, not the player.
Further, to get any meaningful work done, and "get your monies worth", one would have to assume that 50-75 pitches are being thrown.
Obviously in this case it's on the parents and the pitching instructor. The instructors my son went to went into an arm maintenance mode during the season. Mostly stretching and exercises and light throwing if any. Pitchers need to throw bullpens between games - but those can be controlled. Pick your instructors carefully.
You can't go down the road of "if I can't control everything I can't control anything". First of all it's not true. Secondly, in prevents progress.
I completely agree with you.
My point was simply that regardless of one's best intentions, there will always be forces outside the lines that will continue to undermine the process. Most often its the very people who are trying to "protect" that do the most harm. (The previous statement is not directed at your initiative, but a general statement). I do think that pitch counts make a lot more sense than innings pitched, in general terms.
I also know that rules beget more rules. Over a period of time intitiatives become bloated with beauracracy. Most often it's best to keep things simple.
Are there regulations as to how many hits a player can take during the week practicing for football prior to game day? Can a player only be hit a certain amount of times in a game before he has to be pulled? Can a wrestler only be slammed a certain amount of times before he has to stop wrestling for the day?
My thing is this: A player throws and a coach coaches. If the coach cannot properly manage the players pitch count and/or arm durability, maybe he shouldn't be a coach. There should be a discipline there with a HS pitcher that he can inform his coach if he is not feeling well enough to throw, has pain, fatigue, anything like that. There are far too many clinics, instructional camps/videos, trainings and resources availablefor players and coaches to help educate on the issues of arm maintenance.
And I agree with GoHeels in that most kids are throwing on their own in some fashion regardless of what VHSL or any organizations puts in place. The private lessons and just the fact that kids can arrange their own meetings to throw makes a lot of regulations obsolete.
Pitch counts are important, arm management is important, but leave it at that. The innings pitched rule is skewed in that a pitcher could throw less than 6-8 pitches an inning and then not catch?? Or vice versa? Let the coaches coach, put the rules in place to protect players to a degree, but don't try to micromanage what a coach is there to manage. You don't do it in other sports.....if I am wrong, please educate me. 