W v. L for relief pitcher

Starter.  See OBR Rule 10.19 e.

 The original post only stated that the losing team never leads, they key here is did they relinquish lead?  If they tied it up after starter left , then reliever would get the L

 I believe. As Luv states rule book reference covers it.

Yes, if losing team never led or tied the game, the starter gets the loss. If the losing team obtained a lead or tied the game at any time, the reliever gets the loss. Whether the runs allowed were earned or unearned have no bearing on the decision.

No, the winning team never gave up the lead.  Was 3-0 heading into the 7th, so it was never tied either.

 

The scorer who maintains our maxpreps site has an agenda ... his kid is a pitcher who was on the bench.  So he was (in)fameous for tanking the stats for other pitchers.

 

In that scenario, the starting pitcher without question gets the loss.

Originally Posted by RHPdadCA:

…The scorer who maintains our maxpreps site has an agenda ... his kid is a pitcher who was on the bench.  So he was (in)fameous for tanking the stats for other pitchers.

 

You can blame that scorer all you want, but the bottom line is, the HC is responsible, and always is! If the HC doesn’t check what’s being put up there in his name, he’s a fool. In 9 years, the guy I score for has never once gone into MP for anything. I do everything from entering the roster to entering the schedule to entering the stats. But he gets copies of everything, and when he thinks I’ve made some kind of error, he contacts me, tells me what he believes is wrong, and we discuss it. If I’m right, things stand, but if I’m wrong, I simply make the necessary changes. But one thing we both understand is, he’s ultimately responsible, not me.

 

I can’t even conceive of a HC who doesn’t do the same thing, so if someone pointed out an obvious misapplication of the rules, such as giving the wrong pitcher credit for a win or loss, the HC should order it corrected immediately without question.

Stats4Gnats - totally agree with your comment.  Last season, the same scorer was tagging the catcher with lots of unwarranted passed balls (his kid wanted to catch, but didn't get one inning).  The HC did remedy the situation and revise the book, and I expect him to do the same when I talk to him ... after the season is over Monday.

Originally Posted by RHPdadCA:

Stats4Gnats - totally agree with your comment.  Last season, the same scorer was tagging the catcher with lots of unwarranted passed balls (his kid wanted to catch, but didn't get one inning).  The HC did remedy the situation and revise the book, and I expect him to do the same when I talk to him ... after the season is over Monday.

 

Trust me when I say I’ve seen a range of scorers varying from the great to the rancid. More often than not, the bad ones are bad because they don’t know the rules rather than purposely cheating because of some kind of bias.

Odd way to think you can bump your kid into the lineup.  Coach is watching the game and knows who does what.  He's also at practice I assume and sees who does what.  So "shaving" stats is going to result in three possible outcomes:

 

1) Nothing changes because coach either doesn't rely on stats or believes his eyes

2) He starts thinking about the numbers and might get persuaded over enough time to make a lineup move.

3)  He starts looking at the numbers and says to himself this is wrong - he sees the pattern and gets ticked.  So either the player suffers because coach buries him or he changes the scorekeeper ASAP...or both.

 

Since the 2nd scenario is the only one that gets the desired result and I'd rate that as less than a 1 in 5 shot the risk of the 3rd makes me wonder if it is worth it. 

 

Coaches want to win and will almost universally put the best player out there.  In my experience the only time who the coach "likes" enters into the equation is when the players are fairly equal.  In that kind of coin flip the kid who hustles more or has a better attitude can win the spot over the kid that is going through the motions or somehow rubs the coach the wrong way.

luv,

 

I agree that its almost universal that coaches want to win. After all, what purpose would there be in coaching a team to lose? The only place I differ, is where you make the assumption that the coach is almost universally correct in his judgment about who is or isn’t the “best” player. I wouldn’t disagree that they are the one’s responsible since they make up the lineup card, and I wouldn’t disagree that they almost universally THINK they are making the best choices. But to assume all coaches are always correct in their judgment seems a bit of a stretch to me.

 

Stats - Wasn't trying to say that at all.  I was just pointing out a pretty good percent of coaches are going to believe their "lyin eyes" and either ignore or discount the book.  Some of that probably has to do with how much they actually trust the scorekeeper to do it right....which is the point of this string I suppose. 

 

If it is the Student Mgr. it probably gets not much of a look but if it is another coach or longtime member of the baseball "family" at a given school then that would be different.  I also think a new generation of coaches is coming that will place more emphasis on numbers than old school predecessors did and will seek out solid scorekeepers to gather the information for them. 

 

But with all the HS coach typically has to cope with that might be down the list a ways as a "nice to have" but not a "to do".

Originally Posted by luv baseball:

Stats - Wasn't trying to say that at all.  I was just pointing out a pretty good percent of coaches are going to believe their "lyin eyes" and either ignore or discount the book.  Some of that probably has to do with how much they actually trust the scorekeeper to do it right....which is the point of this string I suppose. 

 

I’m sorry if I misinterpreted what you wrote, but I was only going on what I read.

 

IMHO, what you said about “believin’ their lyin’ eyes’” above, is pretty much on point. What I find so confusing is, they’re the one’s who choose the SK, but most spend so little effort in trying to find a good one.

 

If it is the Student Mgr. it probably gets not much of a look but if it is another coach or longtime member of the baseball "family" at a given school then that would be different.  I also think a new generation of coaches is coming that will place more emphasis on numbers than old school predecessors did and will seek out solid scorekeepers to gather the information for them. 

 

I think that’s generally true as well, at least I hope it is.

 

But with all the HS coach typically has to cope with that might be down the list a ways as a "nice to have" but not a "to do".

 

Also very true, but it’s a shame it doesn’t have to be because it can be pretty simple to do.