Walkon Versus Scholarship

some might not have anything to give....one D1 wanted my son to walk on....he had only 7.5 scholarships (school would not fund 11.5) and told me directly he needed more athletes that could get academic money (like my son) or did not need money...

One of the mistakes we made was thinking that "money offered" meant more than it did...we didnt get the best "fit" with the best financial deal....

Although I agree in part with piaa_ump with reference to fit, I would be very cautious in having a player walk on unless there was no other option. Yes, walk-ons do make it sometimes, but not often. Everyone hopes their son is the exception, but the best scenario is one where you are "wanted." "Wanted" = scholarship.

You had better check out how many walk-ons have ever made it at that school while that coach has been there and played for more than a season. I don't think that will be a large number. Coaches want to get your player for the lowest financial number they can get away with. That is not mean, just the nature of the game they themselves are forced to play. However, without protection of a scholarship, it is easy to say no to making the team.

Anyone know the requirement that goes with walk-on. If they do not give you anything are you bound by anything or can you transfer without any penalty?

If you are recruited you sit a year. If not recruited and no money and they agree you do not sit. But some conferences may force you to sit if you transfer in conference. If you practice with the team 10 days NCAA rules takes effect.

Jeff,

You're not looking at VI or King College over in Bristol, are you? (My daughter rides horses at VI).

Don't give away the scholarship. Let the process work its way through and see if your son will earn a scholarship offer from one of your target schools - or for that matter a school you didn't target but works well for your son. Scholarship players get more opportunities to fail than walk-on players.

If after your son is recruited, is accepted, and receives a scholarship and you feel compelled to 'pay your share', then you have the freedom to contribute the same amount of money earned from the scholarship to the college general scholarship fund, or a mission you want to support.

I think your idea is noble (Jesse Jackson style: We can afford to pay, give the scholarship away). In this case the process will benefit your son if he receives the baseball scholarship.

Best of luck.

Allow me to go back to my last son who played---he did not have what he wanted when MAY of his senior year arrived---all of sudden he gets a call--a visit-- and a scholarship--never give up the dream


Aside from my son I can cite a players two years back who was accpeted to the schools he wanted but nobody had talked baseball to him---turned out on of the schools was in need of a speedy outfielder like him--a couple of calls and he is set to attend there and the baseball coach is waiting--the team is natinally rated D-III and the young man has been their starting CF for the two years he has been there to date


One never knows

Will the guarantee him a roster spot if he walks on? Some of the higher-cost private schools will guarantee a roster spot to a non-scholarship player, and have him apply for financial aid.

In a lot of cases the financial aid is more than a partial scholarship would be. The baseball program can use the scholarship dollars on other players, and as long as the roster spot is guaranteed, the player gets as much or more than he would by getting the scholly.

You need to do some research on this school's history with walk-ons. As Rob Kremer mentioned, will they guarantee him a roster spot? For one year? For all 4 years? Pin them down on this -- don't let them give you a vague answer.

If they won't guarantee him a spot, ask how many walk-ons they had in the fall of this year and how many they are planning to bring on next year. If they have 50 players in the fall but only 35 spots, 15 will have be cut -- for the D1 school, at least. If it's a D2 program, they can have as many on the roster as they want. Check this year's roster size. If it's large, does your son really want to be one of 40 kids sitting in the dugout while 9 others play?

Ask current players and parents of players about the the integrity and honesty of the coaches and their treatment of walk-ons at the school. The more questions you ask, the better informed you will be when making your final decision.

Best wishes!

quote:

Originally posted by Baller26:
If you are recruited you sit a year. If not recruited and no money and they agree you do not sit. But some conferences may force you to sit if you transfer in conference. If you practice with the team 10 days NCAA rules takes effect.

I don't believe that's true. You may apply for waiver from the NCAA if there was no scholarship, but it is not automatic. The NCAA rules begin the first day you set foot on campus as a full time student, as does your NCAA 5 year clock.

NCAA told us that the waiver is not automatic but you had to not be recruited and received no money to be eligible. NCAA rules do start when you go full time but if you practice with the team 10 days then you have to sit a year if you were recruited or for some reason the school won't agree to the waiver. Your at their mercy so thats why you should be very careful when going the walk on route.

If a player transfers from a 4 year school to a D2 school, generally he will be eligible to play immediately, assuming he is in good academic and behavioral standing, and hasn't transferred from a 4 year school before. This is known as the one-time transfer exception. (14.5.5.3.10) No waiver is required.

Transferring from a 4 year school to a D3 just needs academic progress, etc.

Transferring from a 4 year school to a D1 is more complicated. In general, a player isn't eligible for competition until he has been in residence at the new school for one academic year. There are two exceptions that fit this situation (there are also discontinued program/2 year non-participation/educational exchange/church missions, etc. but those proably don't come into play here):

14.5.5.2.9 Nonrecruited Student Exception. The student transfers to the certifying institution, and the following conditions are met:
(a) The student-athlete was not recruited by the certifying institution (per Bylaw 13.02.12.1);
(b) No athletically related financial assistance has been received by the student-athlete; and
(c) The student-athlete has not competed for any previous institution and has not engaged in other countable athletically related activities in intercollegiate athletics beyond a 14 consecutive-day period at any previous institution. The 14 consecutive-day period begins with the date on which the student-athlete first engages in any countable athletically related activity (see Bylaw 17.02.1).

So the important points are that the player must not be recruited by the new school (old school is OK), hasn't ever received athletic money, and hasn't practiced or weight trained, etc. at any collegiate institution (including JCs) for more than 14 days.

The second exception:
14.5.5.2.10.1 Nonrecruited Student. A student-athlete who does not qualify for the exception due to Bylaw 14.5.5.2.10-(a) may use the one-time transfer exception, provided he or she was not recruited by the original four-year institution and has never received institutional athletically related financial aid from any four-year institution.

In this exception, the player can't have been recruited by the original school, and can't have received any money. He can have practiced or competed with the original school. Please note that very few players would qualify as non-recruited as defined by the NCAA (see 13.02.12.1), and yet have been allowed to compete or even practice with a team.

Both of these are exceptions, which means that the school can certify it. A waiver, by definition, requires formal approval by the conference or NCAA. (14.02.12)

Finally, some NCAA rules take effect when a student enters high school!

thanks guys. He is going to a unsigned senior showcase. Many colleges have inquired and he has been offered some stuff at some around here but both have 50+ players going there next year.
He has been offered a walk-on at a D1 which is where he is going if nothing comes through. They only allow 1 walk-on a year. The sad part for dad is he will probably make all-conference as shortstop and pitcher and yet has not received any strong offers. Started 7 of 9 positions with CF and LF being the exceptions as a junior and started every game at pitcher or SS in a strong conference this year. I just don't want his baseball career to end after 12 years and him to regret that he did not give it a try even if it means walking on.

There is always the JC route if he is unsure.

Not any around here other than Walters State and they are loaded.

quote:

The sad part for dad is he will probably make all-conference as shortstop and pitcher and yet has not received any strong offers

Jeff,My son was all conference, MVP, 2nd team all state and he didnt have many looks either. hes at a JC and has close to two hundred at bats. two of his friends walked on at D1 and havent had one at bat.
Your son has to be happy with his decision,my son opted to go to a JC. Its in a strong conf. almost the entire starting squads were all conference, two returning from D1, one from a D2.
The competition to play at the next level is tough. There are a lot of very good players. But the family has to decide what the best choice, being a 4 year for the education, or 2 year ( education does occur there also)if your son wants to try and pursue baseball, and get more looks.Nobody can make that decision for you or your son.
Many families are dead set against junior colleges, and I understand and respect that, its not right for everyone.My son had good grades out of HS and good SAT, but he wasn't satisfied with the interest.For him and our family he made a good choice, interest is there after his first season.
I think walking on is a risk, but many do it. If you can afford it and your son loves the school then you decide. But if hes going only becasue its the one that invited him to walk on and nothing else is there that he likes, that could be a bad decision.
Hope it all works out for your son and your family.fan

Recruiting is a confusing and frustrating thing for many players who are performing extremely well in high school but aren't getting much interest. But it all boils down to "projectability" and the potential that college coaches see in your son.

One player I know batted .525 and hit 11 HR's as a high school senior and won just about every accolade that his large city had to offer. His parents were very frustrated that he didn't get much interest from colleges. He finally got a solid offer from a smaller D1, but after 57 at bats at the D1 he is playing at, he is hitting just .263 with only 1 HR.

Some super studs in my son's city were frustrated that they didn't get any D1 offers and ended up signing with a local D2. Most have gotten few at bats this year and the ones that have been hitting aren't doing too well.

On the other hand, my son hit below .300 his senior year but was recruited as a walk-on by a Top 50 D1. Local people were incredulous. He's had about 50 at bats this season and is hitting above .350. He's fielding well too. Based on his coaches' comments, he has a very bright future with the team.

Good luck to your son as he looks at his options. Walk-on positions can be a good thing if you're with the right program.

Sometimes, perhaps many times, HS "studs" do not project as college "studs"---a lot goes into it especially all the "stud stats" in HS which do not necessarily correlate into College "Studdom"

Regarding parent's experience --- I had a D1 recruiter explain the surprising lack-of-interest in some local studs. Projectablity comes down to room to grow; both physically and in the game. HS studs can be naturally athletic guys who matured early, are already man-size, and are now pretty much as good as they're going to be. And if they aren't good enough to start at the coach's college now, why would he think a few marginal improvements would make them a worthwhile addition? He called them 100% Guys --- what they're showing now is 100% of what you would get.

I'm not suggesting that has anything to do with your original question, Jeff.

I may be misinterpreting, but it sounds as if your search is limited to your area which does put limits on his options.

Regarding kids getting overlooked, I also think the junior season is more important than the senior season. And the summer/fall after the junior season is important as well. So many teams are set by the time the senior season ends, that the opportunities are tougher to find.

In our high school league, two of the top statistical leader are seniors, and I doubt they will get college opportunities. One guy is so buffed from weightlifting for football that he can't throw (or wipe his butt...seriously) and is done growing at about 5'8". The second guy starts with his bat pointing to the catcher and either slaps the ball, or occasionally pulls the inside pitch with power. He is below average on defense as well. So even though the great stats are there, I can see why no college recruiter would take a second look at either player due to some obvious flaws.

Stats are only one of many tools in recruitment.

Go where they really want you, nothing is more important. Then you have to perform when given a shot. My son went where he was wanted for a small amount of scholarship money and did so well he will ask for the maximum at the end of year one on one with the coach and get it. Not one who signed for the max played a quarter as much as the starters. Many will be leaving.

blprkfrks: To me, stats are only relevant if they can be correlated to the level of the known competition; i.e., the tougher the known competition, the more relevant the stats and visa-versa. Projectability is the key provided the level of competition is worthy.