Was/Is this me (or you)?

My son went to a former MLB pitcher for some instruction 4 or 5 years ago.  He helped my son some...and explained to me exactly what he was doing...as I was coaching my son's 12U team at the time.  He mentioned that he had worked with a player from our town (very small town) who was a year older than my son a couple times over the past weeks. I knew the kid and his dad well as the kid played in the same league as my son...and his dad coached.  The kid was all over the place...threw hard, but absolutely no control.  After the second trip to the pitching coach, the coach told them he wasn't willing to work with them anymore...as the dad kept questioning everything he tried teach the kid.   The player graduated HS last year..and only pitched about 20 innings in his HS career....still throws hard...but couldn't throw more than a couple strikes in a row.

JBB, 

Great post. I remember early on when a baseball friend told me that if PO jr was going to pitch that he should go to a local PC to get lessons. The PC was an ex MLB guy, 11 years MLB, 2 WS rings. I did not know very much about pitching, so for me, it was easy to let him do his thing. Over the years we've become great friends and he often tells me stories about dads that pay him to coach, but do exactly what your saying. For him, it's a double edged sword, there paying him to give them lessons, but telling him what he should work on. In most cases, it doesn't last to long or the dad figures it out. 

Local PC doesn't always agree with Jr's college PC, but he is smart enough to encourage Jr to figure out what's best for him. Actually, it has helped him get to know himself better by hearing two sides. 

 

I always tried to tell the instructors what I saw in games, for example he's swinging at everything, he's always taking two strikes before he's ready, etc. I let the instructors instruct.

 

By the time Jr. was about 13, he would tell the instructors what he did the previous weekend.

 

Also, I found the career minor league guys to be better instructors. They seemed to know more about the mechanics and teaching. The old pro guys seemed like it just came easy and they didn't need to learn.

I think the most overrated thing in baseball is "former pro" teaching lessons! Certainly they can be great but training and transfering knowledge to another person has little to nothing to do with the act of doing it themselves at a high level!

 

the best instructors in our area are a mix of ex players or lifer coaches...to be honest I would be more inclinded to go with a guy some sort of teaching background who is a baseball lifer...they tend to get both sides of the instruction.

 

lets face it, baseball is not that complicated it just needs to be clearly taught in a fun way to the young kids!

old_school - I think your point has some validity.  Buts its not really focused on what I was trying to discuss.

 

Simply put - why would a parent direct an instructor, any instructor, with some credentials, what to do before they've seen or heard one word out of the instructor's mouth?

 

Why do we need so much control?  Whats the point of letting anyone coach your son other than yourself if thats what you want?

 

As to the 'former pro player' comment, there would be very few dads with as much experience and having received as much instruction themselves of all kinds as a 'former pro player.'  Myself?  I think they're worth listening too first…before I direct them as to how to coach my son.  JMO.

I couldn't disagree more!  Baseball is complicated.  Ask any high school coach about what the scouts are asking them to do so they can MAKE it a complicated game.  I have heard directly from a coach that he has been asked to purposely sit a player just so the scout could see the kids reaction...what he did with his time...did he pay attention to the game or did he goof off in the dugout.  This coach said you would be amazed what these scouts are looking for, it's not just velocity or hitting, it's what did the kid do with his batting gloves when he got a hit; what did he do doing the long throw warm up (were his throws perfect); what did he do when he arrived in the dugout?

 

If getting to the next level is the goal then the entire "game" of baseball is complicated.

 

I would urge any parent who is paying for a lesson to bring your kid, introduce your kid to the coach then sit down and shut up unless asked a direct question.  You are paying them for their knowledge because you don't know how to coach.  If you don't like what they taught then don't bring your kid back.

Amen to everything you said right up to the not complicated statement.  It is actually quite complicated.  But no matter I believe you are spot on with instructors.  Have to be very very careful. 


       

To your point..  you are paying this person.  They need to accomodate the customer or simply refuse the customer service which I suppose is their right.  Also to your point...  why would I take my son to an instructor if I already had an idea of what I wanted his mechanics to look like?  A fresh face.  Someone other than dad for a change.  For me I am the first to admit while I may be a great coach for your kid I tend to lose my patience with my son.  These are reasons you might do these things.  Now in fairness I have to tell you I do NOT take my son for instruction.  I have done it twice in small doses and it seemed to have no real advantage.  Some if these instructors are top notch.  Some are just riding the coattails of a minor league career to carve out a living.  There are many great athletes who really have no idea mechanically how they achieved their greatness.  How many of these instructors have you heard saying 'hit the top half of the ball' or 'swing down to make the ball go up' or 'have a level swing' and on and on.  Fact is a lot of these guys are just repeating things they have heard over the years without so much as giving a thought to the validity of what they b are saying!  Number one I would never ever pay for an instructor who did not incorporate video.  I would also 'interview' them first and ask what they teach and why they teach it.  And don't be intimidated.  If they say something stupid like 'hit the top of the ball' don't be afraid to ask if they mean that literally and if they realize that would produce a ground ball?  Think about just sitting with your son and watching video - you tube etc - of big leaguers.  They are the greatest for a reason.  They do it right.  They may not even be aware of exactly what they are doing but it is right none the less.  Stances are a matter if preference but once you get into the actual swing all mlb swings look almost identical.  With video of your son and of mlb players you can do an awful lot on your own.


       

Just to clarify my comment of it not being that complicated.

 

The original post was in reference to 11/12 year olds and that is where I intended my comment. IMO teaching a swing is not real different then teaching math…you don’t start in AP Calc!! for that age IMO you

 

get them balanced and in good hitting position

work on getting them inside the ball

you practice, preach and praise driving the ball to the opposite field

extend and finish high

 

I am aware the swing the can be a complicated as you want to make it for advanced levels but for the age referred to in the post I honestly believe that simple is the way to go.

why would a parent direct an instructor before he ever worked with your child? i have no idea...however...

After a period of time I found that the instructor needed input from the parent on what was happening in game action or at home during BP. Sometimes younger kids tend to focus more with the instructor present but can slip back quickly when it is “dad” working with at night!

 

My boy started with an instructor at 10 and I offered nothing but learned much, after a year or so I will willing to speak up and describe what I was seeing in game action, I think it was helpful to the instructor. I didn’t tell him what to teach or how but he could factor the data he was given based on results into what he was watching in front of him to come up with a plan to moving forward. By the time my son was 13 I pretty much sat back and let them discuss what was happening…he was old enough and they had a good enough relationship that I wasn’t needed to communicate anymore. Over the next 2 years I realized that I didn’t need to help teach at all anymore during cage time. He knows his swing, all I do is reminders if I see something I know isn’t what he is looking for. We have developed a hitting language that works, “quiet hands” “balance” “finish” “stay short” things like that are all I ever say anymore, he seldom responds to the comments. He knows and corrects or whatever…

 

I guess it partly depends on the relationship and the stage of the relationship of how much input is proper from the parent!

 

Oh and for the record, yea I do think we make hitting more complicated than it needs to be, the body is an awesome machine, teach it the basics and it will do the rest!! Assuming of course you have the athleticism to do it. The funny part is my son has taken private lessons for 6 years now and I think they were worth every penny…I learned to keep it simple!

Ok first again I have to give the disclaimer that I don't make use of paid instructors.  And I had previously given some reasons why a parent might give input.  But now I guess the question I would like to ask back is this.  Why is it wrong for a parent to give input?  Just a quick example.  What if you really liked the instructor and your kid had a good relationship with him but there was just that one thing...  perhaps he is telling your son to hit the top half of the ball or swing down to give the ball backspin something like that.  Would you not have the right to discuss this with him and ask him not to use these incorrect instructional phrases anymore?  I use these specifically cause I have heard them used by paid instructors.  Or should you just keep your mouth shut cause after all he played minor league baseball?  Or do you quit going to a guy you were otherwise satisfied with?  Seems to me giving input is the best option in this case.

I must note also that I do agree 100% with justbaseball that we must remain open minded.  Throughout my coaching and son mentoring life I have made countless changes to what I believe based upon studies and analysis I have encountered.

I think the better questions is what is the instructor trying to accomplish by using these phrases?  I have seen instructors use the "swing down, top of the ball" language as an over correction to weak barrel control and a sloppy bat path.  It is about finding the best way to communicate with the student. 

And I get that.  In fact I had a conversation with one about that.  But unless that is thoroughly discussed with the kid they will take you very literally.  And as frightening as it may be some really believe in those principals.