Weed out the non-players

kdog,

Without having a great deal more information about why the district made the decision they did, and many other things such as the size of the school, its location, its history, etc., all I can say is, you sound like a throwback to some dark age long gone by.

Pretty much what my daughters swim coach does as it is a non-cut sport here. They just mostly work with the top girls and let the others swim laps in a far lane endlessly w/o competing until they leave the program. Dumb rule IMO, kids need to learn life is tough and get cut.

For more information I work at a high school with over 2,500 students with a low social-economic population. As for being a "throwback to some dark age long gone by" as Stats4Gnats stated: the region where I live is behind - they want everyone to have an opportunity and afraid to tell a kid "no." I have a couple of boys come to the first practice and expect to play without a glove, pants, etc, moreover, some players show up with a new glove right off the shelf and not even broken in. Of the 75 that come out, 5 are like what I just mentioned.

Now don't get me wrong, I work with all players from the first day of school to Halloween where I mentally make my first cut. Then I trim down the "A" group after Thanksgiving and by Christmas break I have the top 20 in the baseball class that I can compete with. When the football / baseball players come out I get a better team.

I know a coach in this area, and his program is LEGIT, that has the same problem. His school does not want to cut because they use their high rate of participation as sign their school is a success. He takes all of the kids that he does not want to play and turns them into a pitcher only. It solves a lot of the same problems that you were talking about.

I truly do not understand how they expect a school with 2500 kids to not make cuts. Kdog you do sound like a throwback - a throwback to how to make the best of a bad situation. Honestly, that is a great way to eliminate the sandwich eaters (that's what i call the kids who play football just to be on the team - I'm sad that it now can be applied to baseball).

I think I have three ways to handle being told I can't cut players.

1. Run the absolute ever long dog p*** out of them until they quit. Plus you see who truly wants to be there. Probably take 3 days and if a sandwich eater can make it through that I will give them a uniform and let them sit the bench.

2. Put every single kid who comes out on varsity and then go to the administration and ask for more uniforms to put them in. Since it's their idea to not cut anybody they need to pony up the money for uniforms to put them all in.

3. Resign because that is an absolute stupid rule and I'm not going to work in a situation like that. I'll go somewhere they know how to do things.

Like coach2709 said. Ask for 35 uniforms, and require two full size buses for all away games.

With 2500 kids, I am going to assume you have a V, JV and a FROSH program? How many actually come to your tryouts?

I start with 48 bodies in my class of which only about half understand the game. Try outs will have close to 80 and after two days it drops to close to 70. I only keep 18 uniforms for three teams. The rest are on the developmental group.

quote:

Originally posted by kdog:
For more information I work at a high school with over 2,500 students with a low social-economic population. As for being a "throwback to some dark age long gone by" as Stats4Gnats stated: the region where I live is behind - they want everyone to have an opportunity and afraid to tell a kid "no." I have a couple of boys come to the first practice and expect to play without a glove, pants, etc, moreover, some players show up with a new glove right off the shelf and not even broken in. Of the 75 that come out, 5 are like what I just mentioned.

Now don't get me wrong, I work with all players from the first day of school to Halloween where I mentally make my first cut. Then I trim down the "A" group after Thanksgiving and by Christmas break I have the top 20 in the baseball class that I can compete with. When the football / baseball players come out I get a better team.

Who is “THEY”, and how do you know they’re afraid to tell a kid no and want everyone to have an opportunity? Is that a written policy where “THEY” state they’re afraid to tell a kid no and want everyone to have an opportunity, or are you making assumptions?

And what’s wrong with everyone having an opportunity? Do “THEY” mandate must play rules like LLI? If not, the only opportunity I see is that every kid gets the opportunity to be on the team. I see nothing that requires you to give them a uniform or have them travel with the team. Ya know, it may be that “THEY” feel those kids are better off being supervised by a responsible adult, than not, and don’t really worry about how competitive the team is.

I guess I’m just not the kind of person who believes in taking my frustrations with those who make the rules, out on children. To me, what you’re doing ranks right up there with making the whole team run laps until they puke because one kid dropped a ball or wasn’t hustling. Now if you’d said you had tried to make an appearance before “THEM” to state your position and express your reservations with “THEIR” directives, and have them explain their thinking, and they told you to pound sand, I’d say the answer was to go find someplace else to coach. But again, I just can’t reconcile why you’d want to punish children for something they had absolutely nothing to do with.

gnats--- how about going back to your think tank ?


you guys would die if your kids got their LL and BABERUTH LEAGUE notices like we did--- givenapecific date and time we went to the candy store in tow-- if your name was on the list taped to the room in back of the candy store and picked up your uniform---otherwise youturned around and went home

Stats they had an opportunity and it's called tryouts. I want kids to have chances and opportunities as much as anyone but sometimes they aren't good enough. It happens and it's life. If we truly want to help kids out then each school needs to have options for kids besides sports. Different clubs and activities for kids who don't have skills to play baseball or any other sport. Football is typically the Statue of Liberty of sports in that it will take anyone willing to put up with the hitting. If a kid wants to be part of something then be part of that.

I also don't see how kdog is taking his frustrations out on kids because he doesn't like the rule. You obviously have never coached because if done correctly you can make the whole team run for one person's mistake - in your example I don't see missing a ball as a reason to make everyone run because that is a performance based mistake. If you do the whole punish team for one person then it has to be a behavior / attitude mistake. Can't be used all the time but nothing gets a message across to someone better than a little peer pressure.

We have a kid right now who looks down at the ground as he's pitching. We've worked with him on this and it hasn't changed. Now our catchers have to do 5 pushups everytime he does it. While he still does it on occasion it's nowhere near what it was when there was no improvement.

You're just wrong in this case.

I believe somewhere on this thread I was tied to punishing players and making them run to "run" them out. That is not the case at all. All I was doing with this thread was to get some opinions on "developmental group". For me, there is no extra running - just continual throwing, catching and hitting. Again, at Halloween is the first cut, Thanksgiving is the second and by Christmas break we are ready for the spring. We are having our first non-district game Monday, Feb. 20. If a player has minimal ability he is sent with the freshman coach while the rest of the "advanced" group continues to work with me, the varsity coach.

In no way will I ever punish a player for his ability or punish a team for a mistake of one player - that's just wrong.

Just wanted some thoughts on: school district has a no cut policy and this is how I handle it and wanted some input.

kdog - Sounds like you are making the best of it for your program and the kids. Here is a snapshot of our program.

Roster limit is 20 for each team due to the number of jerseys.

Frosh - team is reserved for true freshman who want to develop and "learn" our HS program. We do not allow sophomores to play on the frosh team as they may be taking up one of only 20 positions for other incoming freshman to make/learn the program and potentially earn a JV spot.

JV - Can be freshmen, usually sophomores with a smattering of juniors. Cannot play on JV as a senior as they may be taking up one of only 20 roster spots for incoming sophomores or freshman moving up from frosh. And quite frankly, being on JV as a Senior really isn't doing the kid any favors.

V - Mostly Seniors and Juniors, occasional stud sophomore (usually pitcher or catcher).

If i were in your "no cut" situation, i think i would still follow this guideline we have set for our school. I would just tweak it a bit and have those that would have been cut as a practice squad, etc. but not on the official roster for any given team. Who knows, the freshman practice squad could end up being half of your JV squad next year. Good luck this season.

quote:

My school district will not allow me to "cut" players from the baseball program.

Do they allow everybody to graduate even if they fail a course? had to ask

quote:

Originally posted by Will:

quote:

My school district will not allow me to "cut" players from the baseball program.

Do they allow everybody to graduate even if they fail a course? had to ask

Don't be surprised when it arrives sooner than you think. This mentality is coming.

quote:

This mentality is coming.

It is here

quote:

Originally posted by kdog:
I believe somewhere on this thread I was tied to punishing players and making them run to "run" them out. That is not the case at all. All I was doing with this thread was to get some opinions on "developmental group". For me, there is no extra running - just continual throwing, catching and hitting. Again, at Halloween is the first cut, Thanksgiving is the second and by Christmas break we are ready for the spring. We are having our first non-district game Monday, Feb. 20. If a player has minimal ability he is sent with the freshman coach while the rest of the "advanced" group continues to work with me, the varsity coach.

In no way will I ever punish a player for his ability or punish a team for a mistake of one player - that's just wrong.

Just wanted some thoughts on: school district has a no cut policy and this is how I handle it and wanted some input.

I apologize. I have to admit that I mixed you up with coach2709. He said:

“I think I have three ways to handle being told I can't cut players.

1. Run the absolute ever long dog p*** out of them until they quit. Plus you see who truly wants to be there. Probably take 3 days and if a sandwich eater can make it through that I will give them a uniform and let them sit the bench. …”

So I’m really glad that like me, you think that kind of thing is unwarranted.

I think the way you stated what you were doing is what confused me. I’m not used to isn’t seeing all the players in one big group, “throwing, catching and hitting” after fall ball. Out here its against the state rules for coaches to do that, although I’m sure there is some “hanky panky” goin’ on. As I read back over what was said, you really didn’t cut anyone at Halloween or thanksgiving. All you really do, is move the players around to put them in groups which accommodate their skills or lack thereof based on your assessment of their skills.

Something else out here that’s against the rules, is that only FRs are allowed to play FR ball. The way you post reads, I get the feeling you’d send a So, Jr, or Sr to the Fr coach, and that’s a big no no here. So, it may well be that the problem is only one of communication rather than anything else.

What bballdad2016 described is exactly what I’m used to seeing, all the way down to the “PRACTICE SQUAD”. It want that much of an issue until last season when our school district dropped all FR sports. This season, there are a few kids who got cut from the JV last season, who’ve made it onto the V, and a few who made it last season who didn’t make the cut this season.

I often wonder in these situations if the schools truly believe in giving all of the students an opportunity with a no cut policy, do they do this for the band, spring musicals, basketball teams, and student councils? It seems that often these policies are not thought out well. I understand the goal is to help every child have an opportunity, but part of an education is having the opportunity to fail. We all do it. We learn how to cope, and how to grow stronger.

I was talking to a boy several years ago and he said he was on hhis high school team. I said congratulations making the team. He said there was no cuts. I asked how many kids on the team. he said 30. i can't imagine.

lots of playing time there

quote:

lots of playing time there

Thrit

probably have rules
that every kid has to play so many innings a week
get so many ground balls or fly balls at practice
get so many pitches in bp
a trophy at end of year

I suspect some of these kids try to get on the team so they can have something to put down for college admission counselors.

Per my son there were a couple of seniors last year that tried this stunt so that they could pad their resumes.

Unfortunately for them our team does have cuts and they were among the first to go.