Do any of you have a weekly schedule for your starting pitchers? What I mean is, say your #1 is starting a game on Friday, what do you have him do Monday-Thursday?
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This is a good one to discuss, especially if that kid is a two way player, all my pitchers are two way players. On Monday we usually work mechanics/grips on flatground. Tuesday for course we play. Wednesday they do a light throwing program, light pen, then no throwing. Thursday they work mechanics/grip again on flatground in warmup, then they use a bucket when taking balls at their other position. I have them run on days after they pitch with little to no throwing, maybe to get the kinks out, but the running seems to get that lactic acid out of their body. Of course we encourage water or Propel or gatorade to hydrate their muscles.
Thanks turnin2!
I am using something similar to that. Say this week my #1 is scheduled to start on Friday. He does not play any other positions (unlike my other starters) so I had him throw 5 pitches each to 6 batters (he missed a start on Friday) yesterday. Today I am having him working on his control during warm-ups before our game. (Throwing with a partner on flat ground and hitting his partner's glove while working on mechanics.) Tomorrow he will long toss (some). Thursday he will not throw. Start on Friday.
If anyone has better suggestions, I am all ears...or eyes!!
I am using something similar to that. Say this week my #1 is scheduled to start on Friday. He does not play any other positions (unlike my other starters) so I had him throw 5 pitches each to 6 batters (he missed a start on Friday) yesterday. Today I am having him working on his control during warm-ups before our game. (Throwing with a partner on flat ground and hitting his partner's glove while working on mechanics.) Tomorrow he will long toss (some). Thursday he will not throw. Start on Friday.
If anyone has better suggestions, I am all ears...or eyes!!
If my #1 is scheduled to pitch on Friday... let's assume he pitched his last game the Friday before.
Monday would be dynamic warm up, throw until he feels his intensity level is where it should be, then go to the mound. Pitch at least a 100 pitch (blocked, 5 pitch, take a 2-3 min break, repeat) bullpen session, with my videocamera, providing feedback, but not overcoaching.
Wed would be the same, go over his plan for Friday, positive self-talk, etc...
Thursday again go over the plan, positive self-talk.
No flat ground instead of mound work throwing, no long toss, no drills.
Monday would be dynamic warm up, throw until he feels his intensity level is where it should be, then go to the mound. Pitch at least a 100 pitch (blocked, 5 pitch, take a 2-3 min break, repeat) bullpen session, with my videocamera, providing feedback, but not overcoaching.
Wed would be the same, go over his plan for Friday, positive self-talk, etc...
Thursday again go over the plan, positive self-talk.
No flat ground instead of mound work throwing, no long toss, no drills.
Also see www.fletchspen.net There are some real good weekly planning ideas in the system
Did you mean to say 100? I can't stop laughing but to your credit, I think you added an extra 0 accidently.
Of course. Why would I have them only throw 10? That'd be unbelievably stupid of me if I had them throw 10
100 pitch bullpen on 2 days rest? Yikes.
The keyword is IF they are conditioned to it. Obviously I wouldn't start having them throw 100 pitches right away.
Gradually build up to 100
One must wonder how Youth pitchers in Korea pitch 200-400 balls a day, and how Japanese pitchers pitch over 100 pitches.
Conditioned to do so.
Now not everyone is the same. Some people can go out the next day and pitch 100 more, some people need 3 days rest. Obviously the more conditioned they are (both to pitching and anaerobically), the quicker they'll recover
Gradually build up to 100
One must wonder how Youth pitchers in Korea pitch 200-400 balls a day, and how Japanese pitchers pitch over 100 pitches.
Conditioned to do so.
Now not everyone is the same. Some people can go out the next day and pitch 100 more, some people need 3 days rest. Obviously the more conditioned they are (both to pitching and anaerobically), the quicker they'll recover
I don't care if you throw 100 pitches the second you pop out of the womb, there is no way that is good for your arm. And did you say yall do it again on Wednesday?
quote:there is no way that is good for your arm.
Says whooooooooo?
If you're conditioned to throw 100 pitches, you should be able to handle it no problem.
Stride length of over 100%, proper mechanics, no hesitation, properly conditioned, who's to say someone can't handle it?
First of all...you are not coaching anyone who is conditioned to do that...unless you've coached your entire team since they were 4. Second, the human arm is not made to throw a baseball overhand so no matter what you have conditioned your arm to do...it will wear down. Third...what does stride length over 100% mean? Bottom line...if you are a high school coach...colleges are going to be cautious offering your players and the college coaches are questioning why they are throwing so much.
quote:Originally posted by XFactor:
Monday would be dynamic warm up
Pitch at least a 100 pitch session
with my videocamera, providing feedback, but not overcoaching.
No flat ground instead of mound work throwing, no long toss, no drills.
Stride length of over 100%, proper mechanics, no hesitation,
Wow Dick Mills posts everywhere!
No.. I'm not a HS coach
I'm only 20... I'm a legion pitching coach.
I'll post more later kiddos, I've got to go to work.
I'm only 20... I'm a legion pitching coach.
I'll post more later kiddos, I've got to go to work.
I'll share 3 things with you, then you can rethink what you've said.. and if you still believe it, then oh well, at least I tried.
50.11: "Pitching an entire game normally requires 100-125 pitches and sometimes upwards of 140. Those pitches must be thrown with the intent of hitting a catcher's glove, passing over a spot just off the strike zone, and/or changing speeds in order to make a hitter more uncomfortable and less confident. Knowing what most pitchers do to complete a 100-125 pitch outing, one would logically conclude that the pitcher would have thrown a high number of "game type" pitches at practice in order to develop the capacity to throw a high number of pitches in a game. But, that simple expectation rarely is evidenced by modern pitchers. If a pitcher does not experience a training stimulus, then physical capacity canot improve. This raises the specter of today's pitchers actually being specifically untrained, because nothing has been experienced that would produce a training effect. If that is so, then the opportunity to produce a "new breed" of specifically trained pitchers with superior skills and fitness exists.
Today, starting pitchers commonly throw once in between starts and those bullpens may only employ 40 or so pitches in a time span of 12-15 minutes. The question that coaches should ask is; will throwing 40-50 pitches at one practice help a pitcher throw 100 plus pitches in a game? But, unless the body is exposed to stresses equivalent to or exceeding those experienced in a game, improvement should not be expected in mature players. In developing players, any improvements will be due to growth because there will be no training stimulus that can produce a training effect.
'Saving' a pitcher for his next start, which would cause any trained state to suffer, is contrary to proper training principles."
50.19: "The idea of focusing on less intensity in throwing along with practicing non-specific activites have prevented many pitchers from improving and reaching their full potential. Its emphasis by coaches at all levels may be one reason why the volume of pitches in practice is inadequate for stimulating overall pitching improvement. As has been frequently stated in this book, the lack of pitching volume (umber of pitches thrown) in practice is a significant reason why pitchers are not more skilled or 'fit to pitch'. Pitchers cannot become 'game fit' just by general non-specific activites such as strength training, and anaerobic and/or aerobic conditioning. The most important element for building pitching skills and the stamina to pitch must be throwing a high volume of pitches from the mound. This advocacy is repeated continually because it embraces two simple principles as they pertain to above-average skilled performers (discouting maturationg): Skills only imrpove through specific pratcie. Additionally, the rate of skill improvement is proportional to the amount of specific skill practice. The corollary to these principles is true: No specific practice, no skill improvement. These principles are part of the content of virtually every introductory course in motor skill learning that incules a discussion of specialized movement skills. The term 'specialized' is derived from the requirement of specific practice for performance improvement."
Now for the third thing, by Ductchim, Dick Mills forum:
"Has anyone read any reactions to either Alan Jaegers article on arm regression? WebBall.com - Why Arms Are Regressing In The U.S. He states that we baby the arms of the pitchers and they should train more from a young age.
(Although he still suggests long toss as a key program for healthy arms)
This was followed on web ball by a father that has had his 11 year old throwing 80-100 pitch bullpens since age 8. (p.s- so have I)
Well this has created a fire storm of replies and outcries on the web site for those who wish to read. WebBall.com - Are we over eager or too timid?
It is hard to believe how many people just dont get it! I would never do anything to hurt my son or daughter, but with the right conditioning, and training, these bullpens work wonders. My son is a soon to be 15 yr old who at 14 pitched varsity for his high school. He has made the choice to double roster for both Babe Ruth and Jr Legion. As an instructor at a baseball academy, he will also get two bullpens a week to work on delivery and timing.
I watch and record pitch counts at both practice and games to monitor, but combined he will still throw around 200 pitches per week including bullpens.
He has had an MRI and Xrays as we do have an Orthopedic Sports Surgeon in the family and he is just fine. Never any stiffness or soreness, although he is smart enough to let me know when he feels arm tired.
When will the rest of the "experts" learn."
You have quite a bit of injuries in the MLB, HS, etc...
How many long toss? How many only throw 40 pitches, then go out and throw 80-90?
From Dick Mills:
"I have one thing to ask Alan Jaeger and all the long toss advocates. If long toss helps reduce arm injuries why is it that over 20% of major league pitchers had arm injuries during the month of April 2007…when they long tossed all during spring training?
If Alan Jaeger were an insurance company he would be broke quickly for insuring that his long toss program worked to prevent injury. If it does not work for major league pitchers how will it work for high school or college pitchers.
I believe last year I read that for the past seven years high school pitchers have had a ten fold increase in arm surgeries according to The American Sports Medicine Institute. I believe most high school pitchers unfortunately engage in long toss."
And finally, to answer your question about what 100% stride was referring to, it was referring to stride length. You know, stride over 100%+ of your height.
50.11: "Pitching an entire game normally requires 100-125 pitches and sometimes upwards of 140. Those pitches must be thrown with the intent of hitting a catcher's glove, passing over a spot just off the strike zone, and/or changing speeds in order to make a hitter more uncomfortable and less confident. Knowing what most pitchers do to complete a 100-125 pitch outing, one would logically conclude that the pitcher would have thrown a high number of "game type" pitches at practice in order to develop the capacity to throw a high number of pitches in a game. But, that simple expectation rarely is evidenced by modern pitchers. If a pitcher does not experience a training stimulus, then physical capacity canot improve. This raises the specter of today's pitchers actually being specifically untrained, because nothing has been experienced that would produce a training effect. If that is so, then the opportunity to produce a "new breed" of specifically trained pitchers with superior skills and fitness exists.
Today, starting pitchers commonly throw once in between starts and those bullpens may only employ 40 or so pitches in a time span of 12-15 minutes. The question that coaches should ask is; will throwing 40-50 pitches at one practice help a pitcher throw 100 plus pitches in a game? But, unless the body is exposed to stresses equivalent to or exceeding those experienced in a game, improvement should not be expected in mature players. In developing players, any improvements will be due to growth because there will be no training stimulus that can produce a training effect.
'Saving' a pitcher for his next start, which would cause any trained state to suffer, is contrary to proper training principles."
50.19: "The idea of focusing on less intensity in throwing along with practicing non-specific activites have prevented many pitchers from improving and reaching their full potential. Its emphasis by coaches at all levels may be one reason why the volume of pitches in practice is inadequate for stimulating overall pitching improvement. As has been frequently stated in this book, the lack of pitching volume (umber of pitches thrown) in practice is a significant reason why pitchers are not more skilled or 'fit to pitch'. Pitchers cannot become 'game fit' just by general non-specific activites such as strength training, and anaerobic and/or aerobic conditioning. The most important element for building pitching skills and the stamina to pitch must be throwing a high volume of pitches from the mound. This advocacy is repeated continually because it embraces two simple principles as they pertain to above-average skilled performers (discouting maturationg): Skills only imrpove through specific pratcie. Additionally, the rate of skill improvement is proportional to the amount of specific skill practice. The corollary to these principles is true: No specific practice, no skill improvement. These principles are part of the content of virtually every introductory course in motor skill learning that incules a discussion of specialized movement skills. The term 'specialized' is derived from the requirement of specific practice for performance improvement."
Now for the third thing, by Ductchim, Dick Mills forum:
"Has anyone read any reactions to either Alan Jaegers article on arm regression? WebBall.com - Why Arms Are Regressing In The U.S. He states that we baby the arms of the pitchers and they should train more from a young age.
(Although he still suggests long toss as a key program for healthy arms)
This was followed on web ball by a father that has had his 11 year old throwing 80-100 pitch bullpens since age 8. (p.s- so have I)
Well this has created a fire storm of replies and outcries on the web site for those who wish to read. WebBall.com - Are we over eager or too timid?
It is hard to believe how many people just dont get it! I would never do anything to hurt my son or daughter, but with the right conditioning, and training, these bullpens work wonders. My son is a soon to be 15 yr old who at 14 pitched varsity for his high school. He has made the choice to double roster for both Babe Ruth and Jr Legion. As an instructor at a baseball academy, he will also get two bullpens a week to work on delivery and timing.
I watch and record pitch counts at both practice and games to monitor, but combined he will still throw around 200 pitches per week including bullpens.
He has had an MRI and Xrays as we do have an Orthopedic Sports Surgeon in the family and he is just fine. Never any stiffness or soreness, although he is smart enough to let me know when he feels arm tired.
When will the rest of the "experts" learn."
You have quite a bit of injuries in the MLB, HS, etc...
How many long toss? How many only throw 40 pitches, then go out and throw 80-90?
From Dick Mills:
"I have one thing to ask Alan Jaeger and all the long toss advocates. If long toss helps reduce arm injuries why is it that over 20% of major league pitchers had arm injuries during the month of April 2007…when they long tossed all during spring training?
If Alan Jaeger were an insurance company he would be broke quickly for insuring that his long toss program worked to prevent injury. If it does not work for major league pitchers how will it work for high school or college pitchers.
I believe last year I read that for the past seven years high school pitchers have had a ten fold increase in arm surgeries according to The American Sports Medicine Institute. I believe most high school pitchers unfortunately engage in long toss."
And finally, to answer your question about what 100% stride was referring to, it was referring to stride length. You know, stride over 100%+ of your height.
quote:Originally posted by XFactor:
From Dick Mills:
"I have one thing....
I called it!
Well yeah... his IQ is above 50, thus he'd recommend this
Edited: Though I'm happy you came to that conclusion. *Pats you on the head* You've made me proud.
Edited: Though I'm happy you came to that conclusion. *Pats you on the head* You've made me proud.
First of all, I don't agree with much I've heard from Dick Mills. That very long article you posted is good...in theory. In theory you pitch 100 pitches in a game so why not throw it all your life and in practice. The problem is, like I said, an arm is not made for that and is going to wear down. There are exceptions because every arm is different but most of them won't last long. It's especially not good to do this during the season.
Anyone ever heard of lactic acid build-up and rupture of the smaller blood vessels next to the bone that have to have time to repair? Anyone ever think about getting "THE" Dr James Andrews opinion on all these training/pitching theories. I have an opinion of what I saw on the video and we are just going to have to agree to disagree on pitching form and training. For me personally, I am going to stick to the conventional sciences by the degreed Dr.'s teaching them. OH BYE THE WAY, Ever wonder what free advice is worth?
That's the whole point of throwing blocked sessions (of 5-6 pitches), then taking a 2-3 minute break, walking around with a jacket on.
It's to help prevent lactic acid build-up
It's to help prevent lactic acid build-up
quote:Originally posted by LouisianaTexan:
In theory you pitch 100 pitches in a game so why not throw it all your life and in practice. The problem is, like I said, an arm is not made for that and is going to wear down.
I'd be confident in saying that an arm is not made for throwing that much without perfect mechanics and timing. So, who wants to decide that their pitcher has perfect mechanics and timing and will be safe throwing that much? That's just like deciding that a young kid throws the curveball correctly (without the use of high-speed video, which I certainly don't have available) and will be relatively safe throwing it. In the end, it's a bit of a gamble.
One more question: Who knows what perfect mechanics are?
"X" We are just going to have to agree to disagree. To me, there are way too many holes in your teaching techniques. I would show you why, but these secrets are too valuable to reveal for FREE.
Haha, okay, sure
