Were we out of line?

The umpire was out of line. If I was the other team's coach the pitcher and catcher that gave up would be taking laps for giving up AND would be sitting the bench for a while. If they quit during a game a second time, regardless of the score, I'd ask them to turn in their uniforms.

One more thing. Their school likes to dish it out, but can't take it?

By "control the game", I am assuming you are talking about the run scoring part of the game. If so, then it is NEVER the umpires job to control the score of a game.

We control the flow, behavior and administration
of the game.

NFHS provides for Mercy rules to keep game scoring in check. There is no need to apologize for playing hard until the rule is implemented. Getting to the run rule is a good strategy to save pitching for games later in the same calendar week...

The umpire was overstretching her authority...

Not trying to pass judgement since I wasn't there, but based on your info, it sounds like the umpire's comments may not have been related to controlling the game in a scoring sense. Instead, she may have been talking about controlling any overexuberance that might be perceived as disrespect. Again, I have no idea how your team acted, but this may have been what the umpire was referring to, since you did not describe any actions that I consider to be "running up the score".

I don't see anything wrong with what you did. Maybe not scored the last run but it only made it a 12 run lead. Plus they had 5 runs so that shows they have the ability to score so it wasn't a total annihilation.

What hurts is when you have a team who gives up and doesn't try makes it look like the winning team is running the score up. Get to the 10 runs and if you are facing a team who has scored then get 12 or 13 to give you some cushion and end it in 5. Once you get there give the younger guys a chance. I think it was a great move to use younger pitchers to get some experience and eat some innings. That's probably why they scored 5 runs but still it was only 12 run lead.

Couple of years ago we were playing a team and got 5 runs in the first and 5 in the second and it was obvious we were going to win. I clear my bench except for my pitcher. I had a young kid at the plate and he saw the 3B standing at the OF grass so he drops the bunt down because that is what we teach to look for. Honestly I didn't see it because I was looking at the lineup card trying to make changes. Luckily it went foul and I told him to swing away. The other coach got ticked at me. Later on had another young kid on second and he thought he timed the pitcher's delivery and took off for third. He got out by 10 feet. I didn't give a sign and by that point we were going base to base on every hit. Now their coach was VERY ticked at me. He tried to mouth off to me after the game and I just told him to teach his kids the game and he won't have to worry about what I do. Final score was 10 - 0.

quote:

she may have been talking about controlling any overexuberance that might be perceived as disrespect. Again, I have no idea how your team acted, but this may have been what the umpire was referring to, since you did not describe any actions that I consider to be "running up the score".

They (and the ump, I guess) were upset that we were still stealing bases and playing small ball when the score was 13-5. Example, we had runnners on first and second with no outs and had the batter attempt to sacrifice them to second and third. He bunted and their pitcher misplayed the ball, run scored, runners at 1st and third. Later runner at first stole second...etc...we were still playing...I wouldn't consider us 'overexuberant' at all but, having just been wacked 16-1 last weekend I can sympathize that it hurts to hear the other fans cheering and clapping for runs 14, 15, 16...I too want to say 'tone it down, you've won already...'

Her attempt to control the game was to call us out on any close play (there were at least two, one was really obvious, even from the stands... )

Yes. Look out for the Karma train, it's heading your way.

quote:

Originally posted by dswann:
Yes. Look out for the Karma train, it's heading your way.

Perhaps the karma train is hitting the other team

quote:

Yes. Look out for the Karma train, it's heading your way.

The Karma train ran over us last weekend... After winning 17-0 and 19-0 we played the host team and got bashed 16-1...won the semifinal 3-1 and then got bashed again by the host team 10-1...I know the tables can turn at any time...

I think a lot of these teams don't like to lose to a 1A program. The only other team that ever accused us of 'running up the score' was a 5A private last summer that brought only their incoming Fr/So players. I guess that figured they could handle the little 1A school (Our pitchers were also incoming Sophs, so it wasn't a matter of us throwing Jr/Sr pitching...)

2 years ago a team was bashed by opposing fans and their local paper for running up the score. They made remarks about the physical appearance of the team's coach too. It was the 2nd round of CIF Southern Section playoffs. The team that was doing the whining was the same team that had beaten more than a couple teams by similar scores. The complaining team had won their game 19-16 the week before.

It's always bush league to steal home on a passed ball when you're up by 10 or more. The first time you don't steal home on a passed ball, it will be looked at as classy and generally quell any comments about running up the score.

CUJAY

I agree to a point but if the pitcher and catcher stand around and let a passed ball just roll to the backstop my runner on third is scoring

Since they won by 12 what is the mercy rule---obviously they were up by 11 prior to this incident--something tells me that the game was our of hand and the umpire had lost control

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
CUJAY

I agree to a point but if the pitcher and catcher stand around and let a passed ball just roll to the backstop my runner on third is scoring

Since they won by 12 what is the mercy rule---obviously they were up by 11 prior to this incident--something tells me that the game was our of hand and the umpire had lost control

TR

Im assuming from the OP that the winning team were the visitors....in that case, the home team would still get their at bat in the bottom of the inning... so thats how they were allowed to get to 17 runs....If they were the home team the game would have been over the moment the 10th run crossed the plate.....

IN this case, I dont see how anyone can say the umpire lost control...if the winning team wasnt sniping and behaving well, its not the umpires job to limit scoring.....

I wont do it....

The umpire apparently admitted she let it get out of control

What is the mercy rule is Arizona?

quote:

The umpire apparently admitted she let it get out of control

What is the mercy rule is Arizona?

10 runs after 5 innings...We were the visitors.

I'm asking because I'm taking it somewhat personal since my son was the one who 'stole' home. I actually don't think he was out of line given the circumstances (up by 11 with a freshman pitching). The two freshman that we had pitch are probably our future starters as juniors or seniors but, since we don't have any JV team, this is the type of game where they get some experience. They are not big studs, just typical 15u pitchers. The other team's parents were actually shouting some pretty disparaging remarks concerning their abilities...

And the 'steal' was more like a gift. Son takes a secondary lead on the pitch, ball gets by the catcher and, after a moment, son decides that since the pitcher isn't going to cover the plate it would be a lot nicer to sit in the dugout. There wasn't a mad dash race to home, they didn't even attempt to make any play.

The game wasn't IMHO 'out of control'. I don't understand the ump's attitude which is really what prompted me to ask the original question. I respect that the umps have a difficult job but 'handicapping' the game to 'keep it even' isn't in the job description.

I suspect there are relationships and history here that I don't know about.

I would say it is disrespectful not to play your best at all times regardless of the score. Obviously not rubbing it in, but I think not playing hard shows more disrespect to the opponet. If my team was getting beat badly I would feel even worse if I could tell the other team was relaxing. I think if you play with class you will get a reputation as a class act----Of course there always are the sore losers.
Also ump should not give calls, go on the stats for those boys ex; we were having a huge inning agianst a team--my son comes up with bases loaded and crushes it--no fence--he comes home with his first grand slam ever(only hit 1 other HR that year he is not a HR hitter) gets tagged after he gets up from slide--ump calls him out-- tells us after game he did it to speed up game (was a tournament and we where already up 12 but they had to bat) Took away my sons only grand slam ever--

quote:

I agree to a point but if the pitcher and catcher stand around and let a passed ball just roll to the backstop my runner on third is scoring

If the other team lays down, they get whatthey deserve.

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gets tagged after he gets up from slide--ump calls him out-- tells us after game he did it to speed up game
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BD46
I have seen calls like that many times and it pains me to see an umpire do that. He my feel it's "good for the game" but he is really hurting the players, much like when the strike zone suddenly grows for the team on the short end of the score.

Umpires have their place and it is never to contol the score of the game. That is just down right wrong.

Geez guys it's a game...sometimes you get skunked and sometimes you are the skunker. It happens in all competitive contest.

But to expect teams to lower their effort to accommodate less talented or skilled players and then to start feeling sorry because your team played up to their potential and the other team didn't is totally wrong approach for anyone to advocate for young people. They should never be encouraged to feel badly about themselves for being successful.

Play hard, abide by the rules, don't cheat, and let the chips fall where they may.

JMO

If they didn't like you scoring, they should have gotten you out. Heck, bunting while up big at least gives them an out. I say shut up and play the game.

I have always had a few unwritten rules when the game was out of hand.

No bunting. No stealing. Empty the bench.

Thats about it. I consider it bush league to not advance on a passed ball. It is humiliating to the other team imo when you stop competing against them when a game is out of hand. I would be upset with one of my players if they did not score or advance a bag on a passed ball regardless of the score. I would be embarrassed if I were playing another team and they did not as well.

As a coach, if you feel someone is running it up on you here is who you should tell: Your Dog.

That way in 2 days you won't feel like a wuss for complaining that a team was doing what it was they got on the bus and went to the ballpark to do: beat you!

If I'm down 17-5 I want my kids to play hard and try to get a few runs next inning and make this thing go 7... maybe we get in their bullpen and crazy things start to happen.... the last thing I'm thinking about is crying about what the other team is doing.

Were you out of line? No. Have a great spring.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
I have always had a few unwritten rules when the game was out of hand.

No bunting. No stealing. Empty the bench.

Thats about it. I consider it bush league to not advance on a passed ball. It is humiliating to the other team imo when you stop competing against them when a game is out of hand. I would be upset with one of my players if they did not score or advance a bag on a passed ball regardless of the score. I would be embarrassed if I were playing another team and they did not as well.

GREAT POST! I agree 100% (as evidenced on this board in previous threads).

If I were the team on the bad end, I'd be more embarrassed if the team beating me stopped trying.

A team can't turn it on or off (or shouldn't).

Winning big.....empty the bench and play the way the game is supposed to be played: hard but with respect.

You can't cheat yourself, or the game itself.

quote:

Originally posted by CUJAYS34:
It's always bush league to steal home on a passed ball when you're up by 10 or more. The first time you don't steal home on a passed ball, it will be looked at as classy and generally quell any comments about running up the score.

No it isn't. It's bush to play the game wrong make a mockery of the other team. Not if the ball is rolling around the backstop and the runner is just standing there. In fact, the runner is bettter off scoring to clear the base so the other team can try and get outs and not be distracted with baserunners.

When we are winning big I don't want it to end! I actually hope that the team may score a run here or there to keep the game rolling along. I enjoy the "at Bats", and the more my son has in a game the better. There are only so many HS games in a season, and I feel sort of "cheated" if we run rule a team early and the game is shortened.

I dont think thats wrong at all.

Earlier this season,we beat a team 29-0. This is a program that is just consistently lost over the years. We had pulled our starters after the 3rd inning,threw only fastballs,and were striking out on purpose just to avoid scoring more. We even bunted the ball right back to the pitcher several times,only to have him throw it away. It happens sometimes