Son is 2 months from being 15 and has asked if he can start to learn a curve ball and a slider. Is he old enough to learn both or should he concentrate on just one?
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He should have learned a long time ago injurying your elbow from throwing either pitch is just a urban myth it only happens if your taught in correctly you throw a football the same way you would throw a curveball and your arm doesnt fall off so boom there ya go
quote:Originally posted by TheJdubJunx:
He should have learned a long time ago injurying your elbow from throwing either pitch is just a urban myth it only happens if your taught in correctly you throw a football the same way you would throw a curveball and your arm doesnt fall off so boom there ya go
This is hardly an urban myth.
Most pitchers don't throw curveballs or sliders the same way they throw a football. Instead, they throw them in completely opposite ways. Generally, pitchers supinate (rotate clockwise) their forearms when throwing a curveball or slider while they pronate (rotate counter-clockwise) their forearms when throwing a football.
If it were my son I would either hold off on the curveball until he's 16 or 17 or learn to throw a pronation curveball (which is thrown with the fingers rather than by twisting the wrist or forearm) or a screwball (which is thrown by pronating the forearm).
Not trying to be negative here, but consider the source when taking advice:
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1491034941/m/2921032861
http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1491034941/m/2921032861
TheJdubJunx,
Well, so much for that, dad10 gotcha.....
And by the way, if you think its urban myth,
go to your local HS teams and ask the kids who pitch consistently week in & week out what age they seriously started working on the curve.
You are not going to find too many LL pitchers who were throwing curves at age 12 going 6 or 7 innning each week in HS.
gimages,
First off has your son mastered the FB and Changeup? Can he hit his spots with both pitches?
If he has not yet gained control over these 2 pitches, there is no sense adding another one to the mix. Even with proper mechanics, the curve is a difficult pitch to master. It is very much a feel pitch and your son should be prepared to throw a lot of very bad ones as he develops it. (Especially when he starts to use it in a game.)
Well, so much for that, dad10 gotcha.....
And by the way, if you think its urban myth,
go to your local HS teams and ask the kids who pitch consistently week in & week out what age they seriously started working on the curve.
You are not going to find too many LL pitchers who were throwing curves at age 12 going 6 or 7 innning each week in HS.
gimages,
First off has your son mastered the FB and Changeup? Can he hit his spots with both pitches?
If he has not yet gained control over these 2 pitches, there is no sense adding another one to the mix. Even with proper mechanics, the curve is a difficult pitch to master. It is very much a feel pitch and your son should be prepared to throw a lot of very bad ones as he develops it. (Especially when he starts to use it in a game.)
Yes. He has good control of a 4 and 2 seam fastball and he realy loves his change up. I see his thinking that he needs one more pitch to throw every once and a while to surpize a batter and to help with not being so predictable.
quote:Originally posted by gimages:
Yes. He has good control of a 4 and 2 seam fastball and he realy loves his change up. I see his thinking that he needs one more pitch to throw every once and a while to surpize a batter and to help with not being so predictable.
How about a knuckle curve?
You get pretty much the same effect but without twisting the wrist.
No. Is that a good pitch with movement? How to grip the KC? What arm speed?
gimages,
Great, nice to hear he has the FB & CH down.
There are a lot of ways you can go for the next pitch, but I will offer one piece of advice here. Do this with a pitching coach in your area that your son can work with on a regular basis. Make it someone you feel good working with and trust.
As I said before, the curve, as well as the knuckle curve, split finger FB, slider....etc are all pitches that are "feel" pitches and most can be taught in different ways. It would be best if he works with one coach who understands his delivery and abilities. Also when he begins to have trouble with any of his pitches he will someone who is familar with him to aid him.
Great, nice to hear he has the FB & CH down.
There are a lot of ways you can go for the next pitch, but I will offer one piece of advice here. Do this with a pitching coach in your area that your son can work with on a regular basis. Make it someone you feel good working with and trust.
As I said before, the curve, as well as the knuckle curve, split finger FB, slider....etc are all pitches that are "feel" pitches and most can be taught in different ways. It would be best if he works with one coach who understands his delivery and abilities. Also when he begins to have trouble with any of his pitches he will someone who is familar with him to aid him.
From personal experience..the slider hurts ya no matter how you throw it because you can't really throw a good slider without doing some kind of breaking or snapping in your wrist or elbow. I'm not sure of that but its what I've noticed. The curve though can be thrown in a way where it doesn't hurt your arm.
By the way the knuckle curve takes awhile to get used to. Throw it in warm ups a bit and during bullpen sessions. When it's mastered it becomes a very good pitch.
If he has command of his fb & c/u, then he should be old enough to learn the curve.
Just ensure he does not supinate when throwing the curve.
Forget the slider. With his fb's, c/u & curve he won't need it. And the slider is generally acknowledged to be hardest on the arm.
Just ensure he does not supinate when throwing the curve.
Forget the slider. With his fb's, c/u & curve he won't need it. And the slider is generally acknowledged to be hardest on the arm.
Thanks everyone. Son has read all the posts and has learned a lot.
quote:Originally posted by gimages:
No. Is that a good pitch with movement? How to grip the KC? What arm speed?
You throw it just like a fastball but grip it differently.
http://www.athleticedgemagazine.com/_SportSpecific/Spor...all/KnuckleCurve.asp
http://prepsports3.stltoday.com/archive/1995-96/baseball/clinic/clinic10.htm
You do NOT twist the wrist when throwing it. Instead, you get the topspin from the index finger rapidly extending.
It is not physically possible to get significant topspin from extending the index finger. Any "curve" on the knucklecurve is the effects of gravity (combined with the slower pitch speed) & less Magnus effect.
I'm jumping into this discussion a little late but here comes my 2 cents worth. I was at a coaches clinic a few months ago and one of the speakers was Dr. Joe Chandler (Atlanta Braves). He and others have done extensive research on injuries to pitchers as relates to overuse, and pitch types.
First, I'll say that the advice given so far (expept for one post) is in agreement with what I learned from Dr. Chandler.
The first thing to be careful of is over use, and providing an adequate recovery period after pitching in a game. There are several web sites that have guidelines for this, one is www.asmi.org.
Dr. Chandler presented a study that looked at professional pitchers and what age they started throwing varius pitches. For the curveball it was somewhere around age 15 (I can't remember exactly, it's in my notes which are buried somewhere at home). So gimages, it sounds like your son is right on track there. There weren't many major leaguers who were throwing curves at 11, 12, or 13 years old. As for sliders, Dr. Chandler's advice was to wait until at least age 18.
First, I'll say that the advice given so far (expept for one post) is in agreement with what I learned from Dr. Chandler.
The first thing to be careful of is over use, and providing an adequate recovery period after pitching in a game. There are several web sites that have guidelines for this, one is www.asmi.org.
Dr. Chandler presented a study that looked at professional pitchers and what age they started throwing varius pitches. For the curveball it was somewhere around age 15 (I can't remember exactly, it's in my notes which are buried somewhere at home). So gimages, it sounds like your son is right on track there. There weren't many major leaguers who were throwing curves at 11, 12, or 13 years old. As for sliders, Dr. Chandler's advice was to wait until at least age 18.
quote:Originally posted by StyleMismatch:
Dr. Chandler presented a study that looked at professional pitchers and what age they started throwing varius pitches. For the curveball it was somewhere around age 15 (I can't remember exactly, it's in my notes which are buried somewhere at home). So gimages, it sounds like your son is right on track there. There weren't many major leaguers who were throwing curves at 11, 12, or 13 years old. As for sliders, Dr. Chandler's advice was to wait until at least age 18.
Trevor Hoffman's dad wouldn't let him throw a curveball until he was in college.
thepainguy - thanks for th links they have been booked marked and son gone to both.
StyleMismatch - thanks for the info and the advise the my son at 15 is the right track for start to learn a curve.
I think with all this info he has decided to work on the knuckle curve.
StyleMismatch - thanks for the info and the advise the my son at 15 is the right track for start to learn a curve.
I think with all this info he has decided to work on the knuckle curve.
Holding him back from throwing a curve ball make challenge him to bring his velocity up on his fastball its to late for me to try this but a player in my area throws mid 90s signed with UNC as a junior and didnt start a curve ball till his sophomore year his dad says the reason for most of his velocity improvement is becuase of him having to have the best fastball becuase hitters knew it was coming for so long
There maybe no safe age to start throwing a curve!
Koufax wasn't really doing any pitching until he was 18. He threw 2 pitches primarily, FB, CB.
HE had enormous elbow issues within a few years of starting his career.
Retired young at 30.Barry Zito started throwing a curve when he was nine!
Have'nt heard of any shoulder/elbow problems with him but I think it takes a callender to figure out how fast his fastball is.Some of what allows you to throw a curve or not is the luck of the genetic draw.
Rollerman
I think the right age for throwing a curveball is whenever the kid is done maturing. This is the approach I took and I have had no arm pains due to throwing a curve or slider. Sliders are tricky. Some pitchers naturally throw better sliders depending on arm slot and and natural pitching motion. I disagree that no-matter what you do a slider hurts. It may have more serious injury potential, but I've been doing it for 2+ years now and doing it right while still being pain free. I matured quickly and that was the only reason I was willing to take on these 2 pitches. The knuckle curve was taught to me as a drill to teach how to throw a true good curveball. Meaning that you can use it to teach getting on top of the curve but if a kid doesn't like the grip, he can apply those techniques to his normal curveball with a simpler grip. KC's can be tough gripping when extremely sweaty.
