Bobblehead,
I have dial up here at home but will try to view it someplace else. There are many young players that improperly throw curveballs, knuckleball, changeups, splitters, sliders, and cannot throw an effective fastball but most of the time that in itself doesn’t promote injury. Throwing “wrong” means the mechanics are such that the desired results aren’t achieved. Granted there are some motions that increase the stress on the arm/wrist/shoulder/elbow and could increase the risk of injury but just to say he’s throwing a pitch wrong will bust his arm is painting it with too broad a brush. In reality we could increase the risk to a young player by teaching him to “properly” throw a knuckleball or a slider or a curve. Sometimes I think we get lulled into believing that "proper" pitching mechanics and properly thrown pitches are natural motions and is harmless to the body when in reality it is a very unnatural motion and is very damaging to the body and we must insure that we compensate for it by proper conditioning, proper recovery and limit pitch counts.
Young players think they are bullet proof until it happens and then it's too late. I agree with TPM that most pitchers can tell you why or when their arm is was injured. I know players that are in their senior year of college that have had arm problem and they (and I) can trace those arm problem back into their early teens when they were overused or didn't properly condition their arms.
Fungo
TPM and Wis I am in agreement with what you are saying for most part.
My son was fortunate to have expert advise early in his career. I had cap_n post the clip to show you that there is a stress free way to throw a CB. Fungo and others questioned my statement so I found a clip from last year where he was facing a very strong batter who was 4 /4 against our starter and bases were loaded with 1 out. This guy had 2 triples and 2 doubles against a very good starter. He needed everything he could pull out of his bad of tricks so he threw his LL CB. I shot this from the left side of the cather which gives you a fairly clear shot at the arm action. No stress. Now how can you say after looking at this that there is not a safe way to throw a CB. He closed that game 1 2/3 innings with 5 Ks and he closed the 2nd game 2 innings with 6 Ks (double header)
My son was fortunate to have expert advise early in his career. I had cap_n post the clip to show you that there is a stress free way to throw a CB. Fungo and others questioned my statement so I found a clip from last year where he was facing a very strong batter who was 4 /4 against our starter and bases were loaded with 1 out. This guy had 2 triples and 2 doubles against a very good starter. He needed everything he could pull out of his bad of tricks so he threw his LL CB. I shot this from the left side of the cather which gives you a fairly clear shot at the arm action. No stress. Now how can you say after looking at this that there is not a safe way to throw a CB. He closed that game 1 2/3 innings with 5 Ks and he closed the 2nd game 2 innings with 6 Ks (double header)
Fungo I guess I was posting as the same time.
I think you bring up a good point. We are all using broad brushes.
My reason for taking the position I am taking is that their are safe ways to throw a CB. It is important to lean how to throw any pitch properly.
KBs are probably the safest pit tp throw of all the pitches. It is a totally different motion. Sliders and split fingers are a whole different story. My son has a great CU and slider. His FB also is very effective. His 1st game last year in Elite he threw his FB exclusively. He went 3 innings with 8 Ks. The coach noticed the UMP was liberal on the outside corner and was not good on CBs.
I think you bring up a good point. We are all using broad brushes.
My reason for taking the position I am taking is that their are safe ways to throw a CB. It is important to lean how to throw any pitch properly.
KBs are probably the safest pit tp throw of all the pitches. It is a totally different motion. Sliders and split fingers are a whole different story. My son has a great CU and slider. His FB also is very effective. His 1st game last year in Elite he threw his FB exclusively. He went 3 innings with 8 Ks. The coach noticed the UMP was liberal on the outside corner and was not good on CBs.
There was a very interesting conversation between Ron Darling and Gary Cohen (?), the Mets commentators, last night, about kids throwing curve balls, and that many of the LL
pitchers would not be pitching in HS because of elbow problems. Ron Darling said that he will not let his kid (12 yrs old) throw any CB, only fast balls and change ups. That subject seems to be getting a lot of press lately.
pitchers would not be pitching in HS because of elbow problems. Ron Darling said that he will not let his kid (12 yrs old) throw any CB, only fast balls and change ups. That subject seems to be getting a lot of press lately.
Bobbleheaddoll,
I really didn't know that there was a difference between a LLCB and MLCB, or that one even exsited.
The topic was about what age to start throwing a CB.
Regardless, just glad mine concentated on his 2,4 seam FB and change, mechanics and developed the velocity, by concentrating on these, to get him to where he is playing and hopefully beyond someday.We really didn't care at 10,11, 12,13 if he dominated in LL or not. If he was having fun, we were ok with that.
If I was a parent of a LL player in this day and age, I would go with the current philosophy that the CB is not a necessary pitch for youngsters to be successful.
How in the world does one remember what happened in a game last week, let alone a year or 5 years ago.
I really didn't know that there was a difference between a LLCB and MLCB, or that one even exsited.
The topic was about what age to start throwing a CB.Regardless, just glad mine concentated on his 2,4 seam FB and change, mechanics and developed the velocity, by concentrating on these, to get him to where he is playing and hopefully beyond someday.We really didn't care at 10,11, 12,13 if he dominated in LL or not. If he was having fun, we were ok with that.
If I was a parent of a LL player in this day and age, I would go with the current philosophy that the CB is not a necessary pitch for youngsters to be successful.
How in the world does one remember what happened in a game last week, let alone a year or 5 years ago.
quote:KBs are probably the safest pit tp throw of all the pitches. It is a totally different motion.
I don't want to disagree on every point you make but I have had professional pitching coaches tell me the knuckle ball stresses the elbow because of the motion... go figuire.
Fungo
Very, very well said, TPM.
Rather than look at "why not throw the curve at an early age?", look at "why throw the curve at an early age?"
Rather than look at "why not throw the curve at an early age?", look at "why throw the curve at an early age?"
Ive heard 14...
But I tried it last year[im 15 now] and I had some serious elbow pain, probably because I was throwing it incorrectly
I picked it up [knuckle/spike curve] in february[3 months ago] and so far so good
I'd say 14-16 would be a good age
but a changeup is more important
But I tried it last year[im 15 now] and I had some serious elbow pain, probably because I was throwing it incorrectly
I picked it up [knuckle/spike curve] in february[3 months ago] and so far so good
I'd say 14-16 would be a good age
but a changeup is more important
Fungo,
Mine picked up a KB at 16 one summer, didn't tell us and by fall he had tendinitis above the elbow.
After missing most of fall ball, MRI, PT and throwing program for almost 2 months, his dad informed him if he ever did that again he would be sporting a cast.
In fact, can tell you the pitcher who showed him the pitch(projected first rounder,he met in USA tryouts) blew his arm right before the draft.
I would assume if it was safe, it wouldn't have to be taught or learned in secret. I think the inforamtion you were told was correct.
I DON'T want to hear if thrown correctly it's a safe pitch.
Mine picked up a KB at 16 one summer, didn't tell us and by fall he had tendinitis above the elbow.
After missing most of fall ball, MRI, PT and throwing program for almost 2 months, his dad informed him if he ever did that again he would be sporting a cast.
In fact, can tell you the pitcher who showed him the pitch(projected first rounder,he met in USA tryouts) blew his arm right before the draft.
I would assume if it was safe, it wouldn't have to be taught or learned in secret. I think the inforamtion you were told was correct.
I DON'T want to hear if thrown correctly it's a safe pitch.
Texan the answer to your question is that he wanted to be the best pitcher he could be.
As to swapping storeys about injuries that are a result of KBs CBs I could go on for ever.
I am on my way to watch a double header and 2 of my son's former teammates will be pitching and both threw CBs at a very ealy age.
I respect your opinions and I only posted the clip to show a LL CB as I described it.
As to swapping storeys about injuries that are a result of KBs CBs I could go on for ever.
I am on my way to watch a double header and 2 of my son's former teammates will be pitching and both threw CBs at a very ealy age.
I respect your opinions and I only posted the clip to show a LL CB as I described it.
