I'm wondering if anyone knows what the rules are? The topic came up in my other post, regarding WCAC coaches returning.
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To my understanding the Highschool coach can't coach a summer or fall team with primarily his own players, I think he is only allowed 3 or 4.
Here are some of the public school restrictions in Virginia. Some rules are derived from VHSL guidelines, some by separate region agreements, some by additional agreements between the coaches, and some by employer (such as Fairfax County Public School) guidelines.
- Coaching teams out of season -- VHSL Northern Region has 1/3 rule, where no more than 1/3 of the roster can be currently enrolled in the high school that employs the coach. I do not believe this rule applies outside the Northern Region to the rest of Virginia, as I'm familiar with schools who have created AAU or other travel teams formed specifically around players predominantly from that one school.
- Feeder/travel teams - Coaches can't organize them, endorse specific teams, select coaches, select players, etc
- Practice facilities use -- access to batting cages or gyms must be open to all students
- Team camps -- Coaches cannot conduct organized team participation in team-only camps/practices. There are some exceptions to this, for example, basketball allows coaches to take teams to one or two weeks of summer camps.
- Private instruction - Coaches can't require it, coaches can't promote certain schools or instructors, coaches can't require players to go to them (if they are private instructors), coaches can't prohibit players from using other instructors
So what can high school coaches do out of season:
- They can run conditioning/weight training sessions for their players.
- If they are a private (for $) instructor, they must offer training to the public, not just players from their own schools
- They can coach teams, but no more than 1/3 of roster can be from their school
- They can observe summer/fall/winter games, camps, and training sessions, but they can't coach or offer instruction during any of these activities
- They can run camps open to community (such as popular summer baseball, softball, and basketball camps sponsored by booster clubs)
- They can coach teams of pre- or post- high schoolers with majority/all players from their school.
As for the private schools, or clarifications of unique or relaxed rules from other parts of the state, others can respond.
- Coaching teams out of season -- VHSL Northern Region has 1/3 rule, where no more than 1/3 of the roster can be currently enrolled in the high school that employs the coach. I do not believe this rule applies outside the Northern Region to the rest of Virginia, as I'm familiar with schools who have created AAU or other travel teams formed specifically around players predominantly from that one school.
- Feeder/travel teams - Coaches can't organize them, endorse specific teams, select coaches, select players, etc
- Practice facilities use -- access to batting cages or gyms must be open to all students
- Team camps -- Coaches cannot conduct organized team participation in team-only camps/practices. There are some exceptions to this, for example, basketball allows coaches to take teams to one or two weeks of summer camps.
- Private instruction - Coaches can't require it, coaches can't promote certain schools or instructors, coaches can't require players to go to them (if they are private instructors), coaches can't prohibit players from using other instructors
So what can high school coaches do out of season:
- They can run conditioning/weight training sessions for their players.
- If they are a private (for $) instructor, they must offer training to the public, not just players from their own schools
- They can coach teams, but no more than 1/3 of roster can be from their school
- They can observe summer/fall/winter games, camps, and training sessions, but they can't coach or offer instruction during any of these activities
- They can run camps open to community (such as popular summer baseball, softball, and basketball camps sponsored by booster clubs)
- They can coach teams of pre- or post- high schoolers with majority/all players from their school.
As for the private schools, or clarifications of unique or relaxed rules from other parts of the state, others can respond.
Superball, unless I missed it, or this is what you meant when you referenced AAU, you omitted the following exception from the VHSL, rule 27-8-2:
"The foregoing provision does not apply to recreation programs
sponsored by governmental agencies and civic organizations when approved by a member
school. In approving a program, schools shall insist that the program be open to everyone
in the community or areas served, and the program not be limited to varsity or junior-varsity
athletes from a specific high school."
It seems that the above rule permits a high school coach to coach in a Little League program, American Legion program, AAU team, etc. as long as it is not limited to athletes from a specific school but it does not appear to have any fractional limit such as 1/3.
"The foregoing provision does not apply to recreation programs
sponsored by governmental agencies and civic organizations when approved by a member
school. In approving a program, schools shall insist that the program be open to everyone
in the community or areas served, and the program not be limited to varsity or junior-varsity
athletes from a specific high school."
It seems that the above rule permits a high school coach to coach in a Little League program, American Legion program, AAU team, etc. as long as it is not limited to athletes from a specific school but it does not appear to have any fractional limit such as 1/3.
I am not the expert by any means, but I believe the 1/3 roster limit rule is a Northern Region only rule.
Little League is pre high school so there is no problem with that anywhere that I know of.
The NR-based Legion and travel/showcase teams (whether affiliated through AAU, or other regional/national associations) adhere to the 1/3 rule if high school coaches are involved.
Little League is pre high school so there is no problem with that anywhere that I know of.
The NR-based Legion and travel/showcase teams (whether affiliated through AAU, or other regional/national associations) adhere to the 1/3 rule if high school coaches are involved.
I'm curious, can the JV Coach coach the Varsity players and vice- versa? Do the rules apply to the assistants?
no, no, yes
quote:Originally posted by Superball:
Little League is pre high school so there is no problem with that anywhere that I know of.
Superball, Little League has divisions of play up to age 18 (Junior League, Senior League and Big League). I think that would encompass most high school players! PONY also has divisions up to age 18, and 19 in a small number.
yes. thanks. There are Babe Ruth and Senior Babe Ruth teams as well. Legion, Jr Legion etc. All of these teams have various community or civic affiliations.
Again, to the best of my knowledge, in the NR the 1/3 rule applies to these teams, as well as any showcase or other travel team. In the rest of the state, there are no roster limits, other than the team must be "open to the community". Fine.
Again, to the best of my knowledge, in the NR the 1/3 rule applies to these teams, as well as any showcase or other travel team. In the rest of the state, there are no roster limits, other than the team must be "open to the community". Fine.
Coach: Hey Tom, need to talk to you.
Tom: Sure Coach, whatya need?
Coach: As a senior and among our best players for next spring, I am looking to you to be a team leader.
Tom: Gee Coach, thanks. That's an honor.
Coach: As a team leader, you need to get on top of things real early this fall. Make sure that the guys "get it" during fall franchise ball, okay?
Tom: Sure. Sure.
Coach: And make sure that the real players are at all the workouts over the fall and winter. Got it?
Tom: Yes, Sir.
Coach: And you have to make sure that anyone who wants to contribute next spring takes advantage of the winter camps at VBC. . . You have to make sure that everyone is there, getting their cuts and getting their bullpens. Okay.
Tom: Yes, Sir.
Coach: Great. I cannot tell you how much I am looking forward to next spring. So much of our success will depend on senior leadership--especiall yours.
Tom: Thanks Coach. I really mean it.
Tom: Sure Coach, whatya need?
Coach: As a senior and among our best players for next spring, I am looking to you to be a team leader.
Tom: Gee Coach, thanks. That's an honor.
Coach: As a team leader, you need to get on top of things real early this fall. Make sure that the guys "get it" during fall franchise ball, okay?
Tom: Sure. Sure.
Coach: And make sure that the real players are at all the workouts over the fall and winter. Got it?
Tom: Yes, Sir.
Coach: And you have to make sure that anyone who wants to contribute next spring takes advantage of the winter camps at VBC. . . You have to make sure that everyone is there, getting their cuts and getting their bullpens. Okay.
Tom: Yes, Sir.
Coach: Great. I cannot tell you how much I am looking forward to next spring. So much of our success will depend on senior leadership--especiall yours.
Tom: Thanks Coach. I really mean it.
Yes, this type of informal networking is what Fairfax County coaches have to do to work around the existing rules. I've seen all sorts of 'Captain's practices', community camps, instructor sessions, and other techniques in use by the top programs to work hard during the offseason.
WCAC coaches don't have to go through this type of intermediary work around. They can and do explicitly tell the players when and where to be, personally and directly.
You are saying that the net result is the same either way, I'm saying there are subtle differences that give WCAC coaches much more flexibility.
Whatever.
WCAC coaches don't have to go through this type of intermediary work around. They can and do explicitly tell the players when and where to be, personally and directly.
You are saying that the net result is the same either way, I'm saying there are subtle differences that give WCAC coaches much more flexibility.
Whatever.
Wow. Looks like the "rules" have a few loop holes. If someone wants to get around them, they can. Seems like it is a "gentlemen's agreement" among the coaches. I think if they all do it, then fine.