What do parents want to hear ?

I am constantly amazed at what parent think they know and what they really know. They will go to their kids game and "believe" that they or other kids should be recruited.

Yet when you ask them, have you been to any college games, the general response is 1-2 and it is usually the local "national" university.

There is an old saying "ignorance is bliss," I am convince that this is how most parent operate.

I want to know. Our school district is having a seminar next week on NCAA schools and standards- I will be there front row center. Plus all the info I am soaking up on this board, I am so thankful everyday that I found all of you.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Just had a lengthy conversation with a top Division I program coach regarding the above

He went to a "recruiting seminar" with a number of other Division I coaches where they were scheduled to speak to HS parents regarding the recruiting process-- only 6 parents attended despite all the invitations that were sent out

So I ask you?--Do parents really want to know what the real story is or do they want to travel the road in a blind fashion and just see what happens and then blame everyone else for why their son is not a scholarship player?

TR,
I do beleive that some parents just think because their son does well that is all that is needed.
They are very willing to dish out the dollars for lessons, travel teams, showcases, tournies but lack the knowledge to put it all together and work with it. They also don't have time to pay attention to their players grades. They feel ability is all that is needed. Then after shelling out thousands of dollars over the years, they hate the coaches that will not give their sons opportunities to play, because they never took the time to sort it all out and understand it all.
One of the players on son's HS team was very good, his mother and father did nothing to help him to play in college, they claimed they didn't think he was good enough to get a scholarship. I feel badly for those, they wear no rose colored glasses just some blinders and do need help.
Wrong, he had good grades and offered a spot on a smaller school here in FL, with the help of the HS coach and other parents encouragement that he did have ability to play beyond hS.

So there are two types that need help, the ones who think that they need no advice because they feel the ability will count, and the ones who have talented players but feel their son doesn't have enough ability to get a scholarship.

TPM,

I usually don't agree with you, but I have to say you hit the nail on the head. There are the parents that pay all the money for lessons, showcases, travel teams (mostly the B squads) and think their kids are D1 All-Stars. Yet they don't do the little things and check grades, behavior (on and off the field), and the true talent level of the player.

Then there are the parents that either don't think their child is any good or that if he is goods enough they (the scouts) will find him. The scouts won't find him unless he is exposed. In the case of TPMs friend I'm guessing the parents of the other players helped the player along. Most of the times those kids end up not playing baseball at the next level.

Now this is some good , honest and true information. The fact is I hear this all the time "He can play D1 baseball". OK have you ever been to a D1 baseball game? Have you ever been to any college baseball game? No. Then what in the heck are you baseing this on? Then there is this one.

My son played for one of the top showcase programs in the nation for two years. Every summer the coaches held a 1 hour session on recruiting and the entire process with literature for the parents. The first year 4 parents showed up out of 40 sets. The second year 8 parents showed up out of 40 sets. Why? Many do not want to be bothered with it. They either believe they know all they need to know or they just dont care to know. They leave it in someone elses hands.

The fact that parents are on this site tells me that most if not all would have been at those meetings. But the fact is the people that are clueless are in fact clueless by choice. If you want to know or want help there are so many resources out there. But you have to take the first step yourself. Some people are afraid of what they might hear.

I don't really know ------ but at times I get the impression that some people don't want to face reality about their son and his baseball future. It's fun thinking you have a future draft pick or a potential All-American whether he is or not. If a D-1 coach were to tell you he only signs players that are over 6' and all his pitchers are touching 90mph and your son is a 5'10" RHP that throws 82, well it would be a long sad ride home from the recruiting seminar. However, if you stay at home and pass on the seminar, you can stare at his little league game balls on the mantle and visualize YOUR dream coming true.
Fungo

I dont know what other parents want to hear.

I do know that my wife and I always wanted to hear the crack of the bat on the ball when either of the boys were hitting.

quote:

My son played for one of the top showcase programs in the nation for two years. Every summer the coaches held a 1 hour session on recruiting and the entire process with literature for the parents

Our team did the same. In fact they set up a buffet and had coaches from each catagory of school including Canadian colleges. The coaches spoke and then had a question and answer period and you could tak to them after, I went to atleast 3 -4 of these. Nothing earth shattering but the myth of full rides was discussed and the rules for each type of college. Personally I already knew most of the issues .

Likewise, my son's travel teams coach had a college coaches night for team member and local high school players Coaches from D1, D3, Juco and NAIA schools were represented. It was truely one of the most informative seminars I have attended and I learned so much. You were able to hear first hand what the coaches were looking for in a player and this is the first time that I heard the term "helicopter parents". The one thing that you definitely heard from all of them was that you better take care of the classroom work if you wish to play college ball. The reason that someone who is even thinking about playing college baseball (and their parents) would not attend a free seminar like this is beyond my comprehension. Maybe it is as the other posters have indicated. Some people obviously think they know everything already.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
The fact is I hear this all the time "He can play D1 baseball". OK have you ever been to a D1 baseball game? Have you ever been to any college baseball game? No. Then what in the heck are you baseing this on? Then there is this one.

I hear something similar to this which leads to the whole recruiting issue as well. We play a team with a guy who is throwing fairly hard and the mitt pops. The parents start coming up to me and saying "Man he must be throwing 90 mph or harder" and I am like - no, you KNOW when a guy is throwing 90 or harder. It has a certain sound to it. Turns out the guy was hitting around 83ish.

It's gotten better over the years because we play a really tough schedule and actually see guys who can throw it. But it all still comes down to what you are willing to see.

If you stick around the house you will never see the true talent that is out there. If you don't get out and see the talent then you can't make a fair assessment of the talent that is near you.

Most people don't have a clue because they think it's easy. They think a scholarship is suppossed to fall out of the sky into their lap but it's MUCH harder than that.

It's like anything else in life - you have to go out and work to earn it.

My son's select director gives crucial recruiting information each year at the mandatory parents' meeting. Some heed his advice and act on it, while others dismiss it, saying it is the director's job to promote their son. In many cases, the latter type of parents have yet to see their son receive an offer.

One set of parents I'm acquainted with want the best for their son, but are doing all the wrong things to get him a deal. The son wants to play in another state and, on a whim, they bought an airplane ticket for their son so he could drop in unannounced at a number of schools to express his interest. They were disappointed when his trip proved to be a bust. I wonder why????

When some folks ask what is the most important thing to do first, I suggest a showcase or top tourney.

They usually come back and say thank you. It can be a real eye opener for some, others an opportunity to move forward in the right direction.

I disagree with a few of you that have said that parents don't pay attention to grades. I really doubt that parents are oblivious to that...at least I would hope to h**l not! I would be very surprised if a poll of players found that their parents weren't asking about grades often.

I really haven't seen what you all have seen. My son's summer team held a recruiting information seminar and at least one parent from vitually every kid was there and in most cases both.

It was long and tedious, but the information was critical and every parent was glad they went.

I think the topic started with a broad brush!

haveing never been to college.........actually never made it out of high school. so my i had no clue what to do or expect. that was 5 years ago.
we went to showcases all over (no pg events sadly)and recieved tons of calls and letters. but son was a nonqualifier, a new term i came to understand quickly. i was an infant in the big world of acadamia,and even when things were explained i didn't get it.
people that come here and read and investigate are getting a huge help. and if they showup early enough they may be able to turn things around that aren't quite right. speaking for myself, i was totaly in the dark. things worked out through nothing i did.we got lucky. but knowing what i know now i'd turn in the rabbits foot for some knowledge.

I really don't have a clue about seminars or clinic to learn about recruiting. All I know is what one of my son's teacher/paid lesson coach, told me. He was a recruiter for the college at the time my son was only 12 years old and I was getting him some catcher lessons.

This coach was a MLB scout for Pittsburg pirate’s org. and decided to get back into college coaching and recruiting for the college baseball team. I asked him what he looked for in player/prospects.

He said ability will get you noticed. Than he look at everything from grade to attitude. He looks to see if the young man is still willing to learn or come into a program with an I know it all attitude. If the player has the later he would rather another team gets ripped apart with “I am the Man "attitude. Work ethics when it comes to wanting to learn the next level of play and what the program want you to work on is key.

He even told me a story about a fairly good player showing up to a game drunk. Of course he suspended the player and the parent/father calling him up threatening to fight him. There was scholarship money involved. I sat and listened in told shock about how kids act even after they have the privilege of making and getting a scholarship to play ball. Of course should I be surprised about this in today’s world. Than he told me about a player who listened and went on to sign a multimillion dollar contract right out of college. He told me about this young mans work ethic and how he listened and molded himself into a MLB player, of course the young man was blessed with skills, but his work ethic was stellar the way the coach describe it. He was good but was always asking for help in improving himself.

He said this was what he looked for; other coaches would take the kid with the no it all attitude. But he has seen kids like that internally rip a team apart. He wants good player who are willing to take themselves to the next level.



Respectfully yours,

drill


PS so if you want to hear it straight for the horse’s mouth, have an informal talk with a college recruiter and ask what they are looking for and what show cases are the best to go to.

I got all this information from a $40 + tip lesson.

In passing this same coach transferred to top D1 School and says to call him anytime if I have any question and to let him know how my son is doing.

My son is not in HS yet, next year, I guess I will hear about college baseball seminar than. If not I have a pretty good idea of what to do, IF my son still wants baseball in his future or go the academic route with a 4.1 GPA or both.

I believe that many parents feel so pressured and busy in todays society that they just don't want the additonal hassle. Others boys may come from homes with divorced parents where neither parent takes the lead in this.

I saw both with friends of my son. Our HS coach put on a seminar at our HS where a local D1 coach discussed the recruiting process. It was open to all schools in the area but was lightly attended. Maybe 20 boys plus parents. Two of my friends sons and their parents did not attend. One went to my sons HS and one attended a rival HS. Both good to very good ball players.

One of the boys parents never got involved until after his senior year, and he ended up a walkon at an over recruited D2 and was lost in the suffle.

The other, a star pitcher and basically a good kid, came from a broken home and was given little parental guidance as the two parents were forming their new lives and he ended up having off field problems and poor grades. He never got picked up by any school and many of the locals wondered why since he was such a good pitcher.

If handled properly, both these boys could have continued playing and they both wanted to. Now I understand they have both given up on baseball.

Proper assistance by the parents is critical. Thinking back to the seminar at my sons HS, every Jr and Sr player from our school that attended with his parents, with the exception of one, was recruited and is moving on to play at some level in college. That should be some indication of what proper parental involvment can do.

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:

we went to showcases all over (no pg events sadly)and recieved tons of calls and letters. but son was a nonqualifier, a new term i came to understand quickly.

20dad,
Thanks for your honest post. I do beleive that this is the single most important factor as to why good players do not get opportunitties while others do. Players and their parents find out too late they are non qualifiers. Not that the parents never paid attention to their sons grades, but possibly they felt their son's talent would be the biggest consideration. What they need to realize is that all the parts have to fit together.
In HS, late sophmore year, I took a trip to visit son's guidance counselor where he sat down with son and I to explain the process, the clearinghouse, Florida's scholarship program and where he felt son would fall (D1,D2, etc) academically. It was evident that he would be a d1 player, based on his grades alone, now he needed to continue to do well in the field as well. What I am saying is that we approached it the way it should be as a HS player wanting to go play in college, grades and course selection play just as an important role as his ability.

I am not saying that one must be a 4.0 student to play at the college level, but parents and their players must understand how important everything is, not just the game. I do beleive that opened more opportunities for son to play at just about any program, not just his baseball ability.

I have heard parents tell me that their son would have no problem getting into the best baseball programs in the country and that they never really got on them because baseball would get him to the next level. Most of them were very wrong.

quote:

20dad quote:
Players and their parents find out too late they are non qualifiers. Not that the parents never paid attention to their sons grades, but possibly they felt their son's talent would be the biggest consideration.

I want to start this thread by thanking 20dad for his honesty. My respect for him as a poster has always been there but this only magnifies my respect for him as a person. If he could turn back the clock I'm sure he would have done things differently.

I think this is one issue that should not be candycoated. Blame should not only be the parents but should include the student and filter down to the school system, the athletic dept, and finally the coach. Maybe our school system was unique but on Tuesday during any sport season every player had to have the signature of each teacher that they were up to date and passing classes, if not they did not play that week unless they caught up.

As his college career progressed, I watched athletes who passed through their school systems because of their cup size versus their academic achievements and then failed in college. On the surface we look at the parent as the culprit, a deeper look indicates that many school systems put a minimal value on the HS student athlete except on Friday night. It's time parents take back this job and insist on student reports and follow-ups. Many teachers will frown on your involvement, your kid will probably look at you as overbearing, but I'll bet if you ask 20dad which way he would have preferred

quote:

Originally posted by rz1:

I want to start this thread by thanking 20dad for his honesty.

I am so glad we can agree on something!

Our son's HS coach did the same thing, every week and that included being informed of cut classes.

When son's college coach told us he basically did the same thing (every 3 weeks), we felt a comfort in knowing that being a student came before being an athlete.

i want to add to the thread. we had a meeting with our high school guidence counsler senior. he handed me a stack of recruiting letters that were sent to the school.then he said you know he can't go to college with his grades? my wife and i just looked at each other in wide eyed amazement. why in march of his sr year are you telling me this?
we didn't think his grades were bad, it was his course selection or lack of proper classes. i asked why they didn't have this meeting in 8th grade, when we could have done something about it? he say's do you know how many kids that is? so i put my 9th grade education to work and did some gozintas. wouldn't it be about the same as there are seniors now? i was a tad upset after his son came in the office twice to get his lunch from the man's fridge. i said the sign on the door reads guidence we have been here 45 minutes and really haven't recieved any. what a shock.
now i didn't blame him then, nor is it all his fault . but now i know it was his job to give a little GUIDENCE to these kids. and our job to know those things.some of us just don't know the core classes etc. the earlier you find this stuff out the quicker you can fix it or make the changes needed. www.ncaa.org has all the answer's. and if they don't, somebody here has them.

talent really doesn't carry you today, like it did 10 or 15 yrs ago. and there are way's to get to play at a four year school,even then grades need to be kept up,proper transferable classes need to be taken. i'll tell you the truth, now i know why i peaked at the 9th grade.

but i'll say it again there is someplace for a kid to play college sports. it may not be harvard or clemson. but there is a place.

rz things worked out ok for my son but your right .if i could turn back the clock we would do things very differently.

quote:

talent really doesn't carry you today, like it did 10 or 15 yrs ago. and there are way's to get to play at a four year school,even then grades need to be kept up,proper transferable classes need to be taken. i'll tell you the truth, now i know why i peaked at the 9th grade.

The NCAA (school presidents) has coaches on a very short leash academicaly. There is so little margin for error for a student anymore. Now you must be have players eligible in the fall, not the spring, play a condensed schedule, watch the APR, and win too.

Typically many BB players GPA drop a couple points in the spring. They miss a lot of classes. Condensing the shedule makes no sense to me. The objective is to learn not to see how well you can do in classes you missed a 3rd of the lectures.

Bobblehead


I respectfully disagree with your evaluation--I found that the student athlete works harder during the season so as to not have his acadenic standing in jeopardy

TR you can work harder but missing classes hurts most players. My son said he missed a lot of classes in a few sublects and had no way of making them up. He was still on the Pres honor roll but dropped a couple points. Mainly due to 1 or 2 subjects that he missed several lectures in.

The other day one of our HS team's assistant coaches, really a great guy, made a crack to me about how parents put too much stock in travel ball for recruiting.

I am trying to think of a polite way that I might give him an education in the fact that, well, there's travel ball and there's travel ball. There are terrible teams comprised of what I call the "dreams die hard" crowd, the kids who think they are better than they are (or whose parents think that), who don't work hard, and who think the HS coach did them dirty by cutting them or leaving them on the bench. Then you have your scout teams and other high level but still locally oriented teams, which can do a great deal for you. And of course you also have teams like those Coach May spoke about, who open doors for kids coast to coast.

My point in bringing this up is, yes it's odd that parents don't seem to realize how important this info can be to their son's future. But a big disappointment for me is that so often, out of ignorance, the HS coaches are actually steering the kids AWAY from things that could help the kids. These coaches grew up in a different time and they forget that things change. 15 years ago there was no Perfect Game, today, these coaches have no clue what Jupiter is or what happens there.

There's a lot of blame to go around, I guess.

I think each school looks at academics in it's own light. At My sons school he was a weekend starter. He had a late Wed afternoon class that was required. Weekday away games that he was not scheduled to throw an inning for his pen, he was left behind to go to class. If it was a weekday home game he was excused from the pre-game and showed up after class. I suppose being a pitcher may have been part of the decision, but I like to think that the Athletic Dept was just as concerned academics. Besides, the act of the athletic dept and academia working together was a win-win situation for both sides IMHO.

“I found that the student athlete works harder during the season so as to not have his academic standing in jeopardy “

TRhit- I can say I agree with you!

The stress in pretty great on an athlete to please the coach throughout the FOUR hours of practice and go to class the first half of the day; then homework/study time at night, while still trying “to have a life” on the social scene.

I see these athletes everyday at work and talk to my son almost daily. It is tough.

It is sad to look at a student athlete and tell them I am sorry but it looks like you will not be eligible to play next year. Even the BIG BOYS cry. That’s a part of my job I don’t like.

Midlo I have had pro scouts say the same thing. They can't believe people pay what they do for travel ball.

quote:

“I found that the student athlete works harder during the season so as to not have his academic standing in jeopardy “

Not sure what level you are talking about . When you are on the road in the spring and arrive home in the early hours and have to get up and practice and class and study when you can only to head out again for another road trip it is a lot harder than the fall.
The fall you don't miss classes in the spring you try to study on the trip but you will miss a large portion of classes.
They work hard fall and spring but the missed classes add up..

quote:

“I found that the student athlete works harder during the season so as to not have his academic standing in jeopardy “

What are you talking about ? HS ?

Respectfully missing classes in the spring has an effect on your GRA. I would hope all BB guys are working hard all year not just in season.
Many have trouble in the fall so add the road trips arriving home in the early hours, practicing, classes and heading out for another trip will affect most guys GPA.

quote:

Midlo I have had pro scouts say the same thing. They can't believe people pay what they do for travel ball.

BHD,

Why would they say that, I'm confused. They (scouts and recruiters) are the #1 reason travel ball exists. They flock in by the hundreds to attend WWBA tournaments in Marietta and Jupiter. If they didn't like it, they could just quit attending the events. Instead many MLB clubs send 10 to 15 scouts to cover the biggest events in travel baseball. They could change things in a hurry, if they didn't like it.

I'm not familiar with the cost of playing on various travel teams. I know it does fluxuate a lot from one organization to another. But there are a lot of great things going on in many of the travel programs. Some have such a great track record that it's nearly a guaranteed trip to DI baseball.

Sorry, off topic, but was just curious about that. I did understand Midlodad's post.

bobble

It woud help if you addressed who you were speaking to---you tend to make it confusing

At my sons college they took care of academics very well ---if they were on the road Thursday to Sunday and a test in a class was scheduled while they were away---they met with the prof and took it on the evening before they left for the trip---he graduated with a higher GPA than he had in HS so they did something right

PG

You have to understand Bobble has this thing about spending money for event and teams--I will grant him that he was lucky in his sons getting where he is but for me this is not the general rule---his approach worked for him but I still disagree with the approach---

Another aspect in relation to HS guidance Counselors and I have noted this before

If you think you son is going to be a college prospect meet with the Guidance Counselor, AD and Principal when he gets to that point , be it his freshman or sophomore year and get on the same page

We were in contact on almost a daily basis during the baseball season during his HS career---I knew if he sneezed in class---there were no secrets--and he knew I knew but then coming from an old line Italian family that is the way it was


Do not be afraid to speak up and put the wheels in motion--fortunately he had a great counsleor who would turn required papers around in a matter of hours and he was a baseball fanatic and my son did become the first baseball player in their school history to get a scholarship to a major Division I program


WE created a TEAM by speaking with each other but we were also lucky in that the educators on the team cared--in fact we still speak today

The scout I was talking about is a Mets scout I have know for years. We were walking to get a bite to eat together buring a break in a bureau camp. He was amazed at what people pay to play elite ball today. He wasn't condeming elite ball.
Here you can pay between $5000 and $10,000 a year. PG teams you are familiar with who attend your evens like OBJ Team O inc pay upwards of $8000 per year. There is no argument that playing for OBJ is a real advantage. A few years ago this team beat Connor State the year they won the D1 JC WWS. One of their guys hit for the cycle against a D1 4 year college. Most of their guys are drafted.
I really don't think what we did was unusual. We didn't luck out and had several schools interested. We also had schools interested off the only showcase we went to which was put on by my son's team. Phone calls, BB programs etc were arriving all the time. I had every confidence that we would get an offer we would like.
Yes money was a major concern. You guys pay $25000-$30000 a year for college and a lot more at some high end colleges. We can go down the road 15 mins and get a top coolege education for $5000 a year with a reasonable BB program. I figured the most it would cost at a college here with room and board would be $10000. Many of the guys who graduate in the US come back for a year of 2 locally and find the competition quite good. Son also could have worked like his sister did and came out with no debt. So yes money has been a key issue.

BobbleheadDoll,

“I found that the student athlete works harder during the season so as to not have his academic standing in jeopardy “

I was talking about college. I work as a D-1 Academic advisor in college with a son who pitches in college and another son in college. Pretty familiar with college and athletes.

A good Spring ensures fall elig. since there is a limit on the number of hours that can be taken in summer terms.But I know you know that. I was generally agreeing with TR.

My son has always taken a full load to graduate in 4 years. He is not used to missing classes but is always an honor student. Being the type of kid he is he doesn't like missing classes. Yes he has had to write tests that he misses because of road trips but he works hard both semesters. His marks over the last 2 years have dropped slightly due to missed classes. Not even a question of eligibility. As you know many BB players used to take a lighter load in the spring and pick up the slack in the summer. Not an option for him.