What do parents want to hear ?

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Respectfully missing classes in the spring has an effect on your GRA. I would hope all BB guys are working hard all year not just in season.
Many have trouble in the fall so add the road trips arriving home in the early hours, practicing, classes and heading out for another trip will affect most guys GPA.

Mine always seemed to do better in the spring than fall. Fall always seemed to be an adjustment period year after year. I am assuming it is because he knew he had to stay on top of things day after day and not put off that paper or project as he would in the fall.

Regarding attending a D1 school, one of the benefits is having both an academic and an athletic counselor. While support will vary from school to school, the athletic counselors job is to help the student choose times of classes that will work around their spring schedule. The player knows in advance of his playing schedule. The procedure was, if you were going to travel that weekend and miss a class, you needed to get a slip signed by the professor and it was your responsibility to get all class notes or worked missed. Sounds a bit high schoolish, but that most likely is because they were considered students first. If you missed any class without that paper, you were in hot water with the athletic counselor AND HC. You were also required to meet with teh AC on a regular basis to siscuss any class issues, after you proved you were responsible, you were given freedom (no study hall either). Actually study hall is a great motivator, everyone wants out after their first semester.

In the recruiting process, these were important questions we asked, about support, and we also liked that there were very few lecture classes and a small prof to student ratio. This is VERY important in making a decision. I do realize that this support is not always found on other levels, but should be an important part of how any program view the athlete as a student.

If you had a midweek game and got home at midnight and had an early class, you were expected to be at that early class and be at the field again by 3-4 for a 7 o'clock game.

BTW, you DO not have to be a 4.0 or above student to get to play at Clemson. 3.0 can get you there. What you do have to do is show the ability to be able to handle what's put on your plate.

I am sure there are guys who may do better but that is comparative. My son is not one to complain but he has mentioned he hates missing classes. Some of which he can't make up. It also depends on what subjects he is taking.
One of my friends dropped out of BB because of the coarses he was taking. He is in a difficult field and the coach even offered to fly him to games but he refused to miss classes in his SR year.

"We'd like to offer you a full ride, son."

BHD,
You brought up a good example as to the complexities of the recruiting process.

During our visit with the athletic advisor it was made pretty clear that certain majors are very difficult to work with their baseball program schedule. In other words I got the impression that if you wished to major in engineering, this might not be a good choice, in so many words or less. With that information gained from that discussion, son had to make a decision as to his priorities towards his degree.

This is one of the reasons I am not in strong favor of the way some people go about the recruiting process.

TPM,
Engineering is quite difficult to do at the same time as sports. Been there, wasn't able to do that very well. I think an engineering major has to take it a bit slower and focus on getting the general ed courses out of the way for 3 years. Some engineering schools won't allow that, in which case the player is going to have to work well and have a good support network to make sure they can learn what they miss in class or as you imply pick another major.

CADad,
I was giving my experience as an example of one important part of recruiting. Not that it's not possible. But needs to be thought out carefully.

But with the expectations they had for son, 5 games a week, missing possible late afternoon labs, which in turn might affect your GPA and their APR, he had to be able to decide before he made a committment at that particular school. If engineering was his long term educational goal, he most likely would have had to consider other school options.

JMO, If you want to play baseball in college, it's not an easy road to follow, that includes 5 games a week, missing class, missing tests, early classes after you come in late from a game, etc., these are things that have to be considered when making choices.

Thyis guy I am talking about is in chemical engineering. He is a very very bright student and played for 3 years. He decided it was just too heavy a work load and couldn't miss a friday class in his major.

quote:

BHD,

Why would they say that, I'm confused. They (scouts and recruiters) are the #1 reason travel ball exists. They flock in by the hundreds to attend WWBA tournaments in Marietta and Jupiter. If they didn't like it, they could just quit attending the events. Instead many MLB clubs send 10 to 15 scouts to cover the biggest events in travel baseball. They could change things in a hurry, if they didn't like it.

I'm not familiar with the cost of playing on various travel teams. I know it does fluxuate a lot from one organization to another. But there are a lot of great things going on in many of the travel programs. Some have such a great track record that it's nearly a guaranteed trip to DI baseball.

Sorry, off topic, but was just curious about that. I did understand Midlodad's post.

PG,

As the coach of one of the teams that attend your events I agree with you 100 percent. But maybe the scout was talking about the travel teams that don't go to top events like PG.

There are a lot of teams that charge big bucks and do weaker events so their kids stats will look better and they can win championships. Granted, many of these teams are coached by fathers.

IMHO you go to the WWBA to showcase your kids. If you win great, but if not at least you have showcased the players in front of all the colleges that go to a PG event.

One point I suggest to all parents is before you commit to a summer team to check their schedules. Are they going to the WWBA event? If not, why aren't they? Are the other events on their schedule good events or tournaments that are loaded with weak competition?

OK, I have to say that my favorite quote from this thread is the "dreams die hard crowd" comment from Midlo... I can immediately put together an entire team made up of kids (or should I say parents?) that we have encountered in our years in baseball who fit that description. I will be using that in the future!

A college athlete falls into one of the following two categories:

FUTURE PROSPECT:
Baseball is a full time job. If your son is on the brink of being drafted, grades will suffer. In fact, if grades and attendance don't decline, he probably is not working hard enough. The road to professional baseball requires discipline and sacrifice. For those parents who wish to support their son's future in professional baseball, it is impossible, better yet hypocritical for a parent to emphasize the importance of an education. After all most people attend college for the purpose of obtaining the highest form of professional employement. Last time I checked, MLB was the highest form of professional employment. With that said those working with the athlete should remain consistent playing professional baseball first, being educated second. As far as I am concerned, any aspiring major leaguer who choses to attend college should major in an area that will aid and assist in alleviating the stresses befalling a professional ballplayer. I think some colleges now offer a major in Yoga.

NON-BASEBALL PROSPECT:

IF YOUR COLLEGE COACH IS STRESSSING THE IMPORTANCE OF ACADEMICS, HANG UP YOUR SPIKES AND HIT THE BOOKS. Tell your teammates its been real, but now you have to be real as well. Although one can be both a student and an athlete, the laws of nature and time preclude him from exceling in both. A student can obtain a 4.0, but is that because they are studying for the test, studying to absorb the material, or cheating (hear about those scandals, lose your right to play and attend a double whammy). With all due respect, unless an athlete seeks to "engineer" the most advanced wooden bat (say super duper unbreakable maple) the athlete should take it easy.

If in college he wants to learn, encourage and assist. If in college he wants to play baseball, encourage and assist. But for those that push both, you should cease and desist. I have never heard of a parent sitting on his death bed saying, son I really wished you worked harder to get a B+ in principles of rock identification 201, have you?

quote:

There are a lot of teams that charge big bucks and do weaker events so their kids stats will look better and they can win championships. Granted, many of these teams are coached by fathers.

Not the case. These teams do go to top events and are not coached by fathers. Several draft picks and top D1 recruits.
You have to have talent to beat D1 JC and 4 year programs. Almost all players on some of these teams go to great colleges and many drafted.

newagent - I don't know if your definitions for prospect or non-prospect are correct, but I will say they are provocative definitions.

I wonder if your definitions are on the outer extreme however. There are other ways (than Yoga) to put the necessary time in for example.

quote:

Originally posted by newagent:
A college athlete falls into one of the following two categories:

FUTURE PROSPECT:
Baseball is a full time job. If your son is on the brink of being drafted, grades will suffer. In fact, if grades and attendance don't decline, he probably is not working hard enough. The road to professional baseball requires discipline and sacrifice. For those parents who wish to support their son's future in professional baseball, it is impossible, better yet hypocritical for a parent to emphasize the importance of an education. After all most people attend college for the purpose of obtaining the highest form of professional employement. Last time I checked, MLB was the highest form of professional employment. With that said those working with the athlete should remain consistent playing professional baseball first, being educated second. As far as I am concerned, any aspiring major leaguer who choses to attend college should major in an area that will aid and assist in alleviating the stresses befalling a professional ballplayer. I think some colleges now offer a major in Yoga.

NON-BASEBALL PROSPECT:

IF YOUR COLLEGE COACH IS STRESSSING THE IMPORTANCE OF ACADEMICS, HANG UP YOUR SPIKES AND HIT THE BOOKS. Tell your teammates its been real, but now you have to be real as well. Although one can be both a student and an athlete, the laws of nature and time preclude him from exceling in both. A student can obtain a 4.0, but is that because they are studying for the test, studying to absorb the material, or cheating (hear about those scandals, lose your right to play and attend a double whammy). With all due respect, unless an athlete seeks to "engineer" the most advanced wooden bat (say super duper unbreakable maple) the athlete should take it easy.

If in college he wants to learn, encourage and assist. If in college he wants to play baseball, encourage and assist. But for those that push both, you should cease and desist. I have never heard of a parent sitting on his death bed saying, son I really wished you worked harder to get a B+ in principles of rock identification 201, have you?

Is this your own stuff or quoted from someplace?

The above entirely negates all advice that has been suggested here on the HSBBW.

newagent:

Your post is with interesting however:

By your definition 99.5% of all college baseball athletes fall into Non-Baseball Prospect category.

10.5% of college athletes are drafted by MLB and go into MiLB ball

1 in 20 make it from MiLB to the MLB.

It’s pretty clear where the college baseball athlete’s priorities should be….

Before I read this thread, I was living under the perception that there was a third kind of college athlete under the category "LIKES TO PLAY THE GAME". This scholar/athlete enjoys the team camaraderie, instant network of friends, and getting to play his/her favorite sport while getting a degree leading to a lifetime profession. I guess I will have to advise my son to refuse his athletic scholarship money now that I have been educated. I am hoping that genetic testing will advance far enough soon that we can cut things off at T-ball if there is no chance of going pro. *:-*)-

rwuf I am sure glad there was another category that our attorney/agent missed. I was thinking that if someone important found out they would just cancel all college baseball altogether. What's the point afterall.....

I deleted newagent's last post. newagent - suggest you read the rules of the message board or consider not being a member here.

newagent, maybe you can enlighten “us” on how your advice of:

“IF YOUR COLLEGE COACH IS STRESSSING THE IMPORTANCE OF ACADEMICS, HANG UP YOUR SPIKES AND HIT THE BOOKS. Tell your teammates its been real, but now you have to be real as well. Although one can be both a student and an athlete, the laws of nature and time preclude him from exceling in both”

Furthers your stated objective of:

“I seek to contribute information to the forums for the purposes of minimizing exploitation and maximizing player development”

Considering you are addressing 99.5% of the college baseball players currently playing the game.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Now this is some good , honest and true information. The fact is I hear this all the time "He can play D1 baseball". OK have you ever been to a D1 baseball game? Have you ever been to any college baseball game? No. Then what in the heck are you baseing this on? Then there is this one.

My son played for one of the top showcase programs in the nation for two years. Every summer the coaches held a 1 hour session on recruiting and the entire process with literature for the parents. The first year 4 parents showed up out of 40 sets. The second year 8 parents showed up out of 40 sets. Why? Many do not want to be bothered with it. They either believe they know all they need to know or they just dont care to know. They leave it in someone elses hands.

The fact that parents are on this site tells me that most if not all would have been at those meetings. But the fact is the people that are clueless are in fact clueless by choice. If you want to know or want help there are so many resources out there. But you have to take the first step yourself. Some people are afraid of what they might hear.

For Real! I know the HSBBWeb has a 'lot' of members - many active, a number of lurkers, and unregistered guests as well. BUt, Coach May, like you're saying -- THESE are the parents who want to arm themselves with the best information for the whole process picture. So how many parents come to the ONLY site of its kind for this great info compared to how many kids' parents think their son is a shoo-in and so couldn't be bothered with doing their due diligence? If every parent of a good ballplayer -- a kid who could play at some level of college baseball -- was active on this site, it would be swamped with thousands upon thousands of active members. It really does go to show that most parents enter into, and unfortunately finish, the process very much uninformed, and are very likely missing out on great opportunities because of the lack of working information. I'm sure there is a large group of kids who could play college ball who will never even have a shot at it because they, and the adults who could help them, aren't pursuing the right information, or any information at all.

I love this site -- the NCAA, NAIA, and NJCAA, and Cali JUCO league should make registration with the HSBBW mandatory!

quote:

Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
I deleted newagent's last post. newagent - suggest you read the rules of the message board or consider not being a member here.

Thanks CD, but I've taken bigger hits and you all know I can take care of myself. Besides, I quoted his reply to me, it's there for all to see. Nasty posts tell a lot about a person.

I am not sure if newagent is aware of what this site is about.
I am not even going to get into this, this advice, if it is newagent's philosophy is just ridiculous. It may be right for some, but not for most. No sense getting into it, most of us are intelligent enough here to read and seek out what's important and what's garbage.

The topic is What do parents want to hear? Certainly not the above.

new agent

it may be best that you didn't use your name here. you don't represent yourself very well,as someone who wants to represent young adult's. i hope you haven't quit your day job.

remember this in life. it's nice to be important,but it's more important to be nice.

newagent you have a pm.

Kids certainly need a dose of reality but where is the line between reality and killing a dream? One could argue, given the odds, attempting to work one's way up the food chain to MLB is foolish at best and insane at worse.

Or one could argue, "**** the torpedos, Full Speed Ahead."

Bum, Jr. has decided to pursue the dream, and part of that pursuit is sacrifice. No, he won't be taking engineering. He hasn't decided yet what it'll be, but he'll be majoring in a field which comfortably allows him to pursue baseball. He figures there are opportunities in baseball, too.. maybe he'll get a Master's in Education if it doesn't pan out and he'll end up coaching. He might not be building bridges over the River Kwai but he'll be doing what he loves, giving back to the game of baseball. Pursuing the dream.

I think with a little sugar some of newagents points are palpable. My son was drafted out of HS but there were too many zeros separating us. He chose a school that forced academics and had a coach that he was on the same page with. He didn't choose the school because of the programs, it was baseball first. As much as I stress academics I'm going to have change my tune and say he attended college to prepare him for MLB and the academics were force fed. In the end a good balance, mission accomplished.

So tpm

quote:

The above entirely negates all advice that has been suggested here on the HSBBW.

Please don't speak for me

I find it amazing that parents do not educate themselves about the process. Maybe they figure ignorance is bliss? Or maybe there is too much information out there so why bother. either way, y'all are right, it is their choice.

As to the advice about slacking off academically - maybe I can see that if you are in your last year of school. Maybe... No one had better ever give my son that advice though. Why? Because you never know what is around that corner. I don't believe that advice has ever been offered here... like I said it is interesting though.

What do I want to hear? An honest answer. Perhaps more importantly, I want to be able to accept it.

rz,
newagent has an agenda, it's not about "educating us for the purposes of minimizing exploitation and maximizing player development". We get those from time to time.

Do your homework.

BTW, he should be a bit more original.

quote:

Originally posted by newagent:
A college athlete falls into one of the following two categories:

FUTURE PROSPECT:
Baseball is a full time job. If your son is on the brink of being drafted, grades will suffer. In fact, if grades and attendance don't decline, he probably is not working hard enough. The road to professional baseball requires discipline and sacrifice. For those parents who wish to support their son's future in professional baseball, it is impossible, better yet hypocritical for a parent to emphasize the importance of an education. After all most people attend college for the purpose of obtaining the highest form of professional employement. Last time I checked, MLB was the highest form of professional employment. With that said those working with the athlete should remain consistent playing professional baseball first, being educated second. As far as I am concerned, any aspiring major leaguer who choses to attend college should major in an area that will aid and assist in alleviating the stresses befalling a professional ballplayer. I think some colleges now offer a major in Yoga.

NON-BASEBALL PROSPECT:

IF YOUR COLLEGE COACH IS STRESSSING THE IMPORTANCE OF ACADEMICS, HANG UP YOUR SPIKES AND HIT THE BOOKS. Tell your teammates its been real, but now you have to be real as well. Although one can be both a student and an athlete, the laws of nature and time preclude him from exceling in both. A student can obtain a 4.0, but is that because they are studying for the test, studying to absorb the material, or cheating (hear about those scandals, lose your right to play and attend a double whammy). With all due respect, unless an athlete seeks to "engineer" the most advanced wooden bat (say super duper unbreakable maple) the athlete should take it easy.

If in college he wants to learn, encourage and assist. If in college he wants to play baseball, encourage and assist. But for those that push both, you should cease and desist. I have never heard of a parent sitting on his death bed saying, son I really wished you worked harder to get a B+ in principles of rock identification 201, have you?

This post may be the single worst piece of advice I've seen on this board. Here's what happens to the small number of college athletes fortunate to play minor league baseball ....

1% will earn their living in the majors. 99% will rely on their education to earn their living.

quote:

1 in 20 make it from MiLB to the MLB.

According to the D'backs GM, 2% make it, 1% stick.

I would like to report tpm to the moderators for being rude to me and insulting my intelligence by telling me to do my homework.

I thought my post was legit and truthful but I've been told otherwise

rz,
Wasn't meant to be rude.

But, if I can nicely, kindly, helpfully (whichever way you want) make a suggestion, do a search on past posts.

I'm going off onto a slight tangent so I want to apologize ahead of time if it hijacks the thread.

I am sitting here watching ESPNews and they just did some kind of segment on some kid somewhere being recruited for something. I really didn't pay that close of attention to it because I was reading these posts and newagents slightly controversial statement (that is me being nice).

While doing this it kind of struck me funny - how many times do these parents watch ESPNews like I am doing now and hear about the University of State College is recruiting Johnny Throwstheballhard to get a full ride or University of Tech Support is recruiting Billy Jumpsanddunks to get a full ride? They hear about these very FEW cases where the school is spending the money to go out and find these kids. When you consider the number of teams, athletes, levels of sports at the college level - DI, DII, DIII, NAIA, JUCO - that is a TON of players filling out roster spots.

Now you factor in all those roster spots there is NO WAY in the world the majority are the ones you hear about on ESPNews. They are the minority when it comes to roster spots but they are the ones who get the majority of attention.

So I think sometimes these parents who have no clue or think Bobby Bestthereeverwas hear about these players they think that is how recruiting is done - the college / coach goes out and finds them. They just see ESPNews do this story on them and hear them talk about 17 schools are after him.

They really don't mention all the work the kid put in putting himself out there. AAU for basketball, combines for football and showcases for baseball - those are never mentioned so the parent just thinks "hey those guys are so good the colleges find them" and their son sits on the couch.

The VAST majority of roster spots - scholarship and walk on - on college teams are filled out by players who went out and did the recruiting themselves. They went to the showcases, combines and AAU events and initiated the contact. They may have emailed, phoned of mailed a letter to the coach to start the process.

These parents need to understand that recruiting doesn't take place on TV - it takes place by getting off the couch and putting yourself out there.

those are some great last names coach. what nationality are they? europeein?

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:
Kids certainly need a dose of reality but where is the line between reality and killing a dream? One could argue, given the odds, attempting to work one's way up the food chain to MLB is foolish at best and insane at worse.

Or one could argue, "**** the torpedos, Full Speed Ahead."

Bum, Jr. has decided to pursue the dream, and part of that pursuit is sacrifice. No, he won't be taking engineering. He hasn't decided yet what it'll be, but he'll be majoring in a field which comfortably allows him to pursue baseball. He figures there are opportunities in baseball, too.. maybe he'll get a Master's in Education if it doesn't pan out and he'll end up coaching. He might not be building bridges over the River Kwai but he'll be doing what he loves, giving back to the game of baseball. Pursuing the dream.

I think it is great for a ball player to chase his dreams, but it is also important to understand the odds of achieving a particular objective. It is so important to have A, B, and C plans in place IN ADVANCE.

A friend of ours boy went straight into the minors out of HS and now after 4-5 years has figured out he will never make it to the majors. His mom told me he is basically starting over at 25 and wished he had gone to college – he (they) got all wrapped up in being drafted in did not think it through. Another part time coach of my son is on the 40 man roster of a MLB team, but if he does not break though this year he will be a career MiLB player. He however has a side business and a degree and can step away into something productive if it does not happen.

Sounds like BumJr has a similar objective, which is great, and I am sure everyone on this board hopes he makes plan A.

Most everyone who reads newagent’s post will figure him out so I won't even waste any more time on it, but it is important for those players who think they can make plan A happen to understand the odds and to have the alternative plans in place.

I make no apologies for my opinons, and I have a right to stand up for myself. I have no agenda. If you don't like what I say fine. Some of you, not all of you do not have the big picture in mind. Please consider the following questions:

1. Where do I see the athlete in 5 years?

2. What happens when baseball and my agent no longer see my son as profitable?

3. If cutting my son was a business decision why I am taking it so pesonal?

4. Why won't teams return my agents phone calls?

5. Why won't my agent return my phone calls?

Do I have strong opinions? Yes

For those that dislike me, then disregard my postings.

However, for those that want to learn, and AND I MEAN LEARN, then please consider my skepticism. Whether college or staright to pro, once they leave high school, they will see for the first time how cut throat this business is. From broken promises, to broken friendships. My reason for being on this site is to caution the coveted athlete as to the perils of this sport. Some people do not know what the definition of "hard times" is. Neither did I until I started representing the people that went through them. With that, judge if you must, but at the end of the day, I have done my part because you have been warned. BASEBALL AINT ALL SPORT.

FYI,
MTS posted some information in recruiting under "grades". The importance of emphasising working hard in the classroom leads to many opportunities. Your draft opportunity, where you get to go to school (to prepare for MLB if that's your desire) may be a few of them.

This is what I have always stressed here on the HSBBW. Do well in the classroom and on the field and many more doors will open for you.

quote:

For those that dislike me, then disregard my postings.

Its not a matter of not liking you. Don't know you to form an opinion.
You ideas are less than earth shattering and franky naive in regards to what I have read. You start with the assumption that everyone wants their kid to be a pro ball player. That is a **** presumption.
There are as stated great ball players who just want to have a college experience. I personnaly think the pro dream can be a harsh and cruel reality. That opinion comes from hanging around minot leaugue teams for years and seeing how few drafted with and without bonus guys who make it past the minors. I thought you views are jaded by your experiences and not relevant to the average poster here.

Thanks 20dad and yes those last names areapeein.


BobbleheadDoll

quote:

There are as stated great ball players who just want to have a college experience.

You are so right. You have just described the vast majority of players at JUCO, NAIA and most DIII and DII players.

They know going in they won't play pro ball. They just want to continue the dream a little longer and use baseball as a way to get an education.

quote:

Originally posted by BOF:
I think it is great for a ball player to chase his dreams, but it is also important to understand the odds of achieving a particular objective.

I think I should probably clarify that I believe Bum, Jr's position is somewhat unique. He's a bright kid with a good GPA and high SAT score and has taken Advanced Placement Classes all through high school. He's getting an "A" in physics! So he could take whatever field he wanted. But on the other hand, he's going to be a LHP in the PAC-10 and that's a pretty rare opportunity, too. In his case, when he's done I think he will have amassed a pretty good resume to begin a coaching career as he has a pretty good understanding of pitching.

Some go to college with their major goal being to become a major league player.

Some go to college with their major goal being to get a degree.

The smartest of all are those who go to college to do both, but realize they have the most control over getting that degree.

The person who goes to college for the “SOLE” purpose of using that as a route to Major League baseball, should either sign out of high school or attend a junior college.

In any case, it is in their best interest to do as well as possible in both the student and the athlete part. Example of not cheating yourself in either… BILL BRADLEY - Rhodes Scholar and Basketball Hall of Famer.

PG....A great post!

Succinct and to the point.