What do you consider the most important trait of an outstanding player?

Bad luck ...

Years ago a good friend and teammate was a high pick of the Yankees. Talk about blocked. He was AAA Player of the Year. He was called up in September. Getting out of his car at the Columbus airport he stepped in a pothole and badly sprained his ankle. Season over.

The next season Rod Carew wasn't traded to the Yankees because they wouldn't give up my friend. His agent told him if the trade went through he wou,d be starting in left for the Twins. He had another great season in AAA. 

He was told to report to the Yankees as soon as the AAA playoffs were over. He got hit by a pitch breaking his wrist. Season over. He never fully recovered. The following season he developed another medical issue. Two prospects who were behind him were eventually called up. They both had productive MLB careers. Two years later he was out of baseball.

PGStaff posted:

Another thing that people often overlook is LUCK. I know it's not a trait like work ethic, persistence, etc.  But don't ever believe luck doesn't count.

From my observations in sports, and particularly baseball, "luck" is a large factor for a great many players.  The "luck" can be good or it can be bad.  One can be at the right place at the right time . . .. OR, they can be at the wrong place at the wrong time.   

And if you're really lucky to have a connection within baseball (someone who just really likes you for whatever reason), opportunities for more good luck are then often expanded and bad luck can find some leeway.    It's a tough reality check when one sees outstanding players that just can't make it to the next level and some players who are marginal make it . . .  just due to "luck."   But that's just real life, isn't it?  

Tie between talent and make up. You can have either and be good but both will allow you to be great.

PGStaff posted:

Good example.  And kind of unlucky that Johnnie Football never seemed to grow up.

Oh gosh...you sound like my dad the hopeless romantic for the Browns...lol!

TPM posted:

Go for it. I will post my opinion later.

Did I miss it?

joemktg posted:

TPM posted:

Go for it. I will post my opinion later.

Did I miss it?

I actually posted a response last night. The wifi where I am isn't up to par, it never made it here. I will try again later.

It's been good though, have had an opportunity to get opinions from some folks, including one current ML player and one retired, an agent, and a lunch and dinner discussion with son.

I always loved Yogi Berra's quote: "Baseball is 90% mental and the other half is physical."  Whether it was a gaff or not, it sums up the game nicely.

Someone who has the ability to turn it up a notch during games.  My best player is currently someone who came into the season not knowing how to throw a ball, and still sucks at everything during practice, but for some reason everything "clicks" right in the games.  

After watching u-tube interviews with Ted Williams, Willie Mays and Bob Gibson, I would add "inner arrogrance" and "curiosity".

Bob

Temendous Eye-Hand Coordination.

Competitive Nature!

Sorry for the delay.

I thank you all for the responses. 

I have had a running dialog with my son for the past few weeks about what makes one player more successful than others. What makes Grienke or  Pujols or Jeter so succesful.  

We all know its impossible to reach the top with only one trait.  So assuming that all players have most of the traits mentioned above, what's the add on that makes some more outstanding than others.

We all know that baseball is a game of failure and we all know that there are many players that are more mentally tough than others.  What does makes one player able to sustain a lifelong career over others?  What prevents them from failure.

My answer is consistency.

I am being told that consistency comes from a complete understanding of the process.  I think most people tend to forget how important the process is in being successful. The process is different for pitchers and hitters.  

Perhaps if we spent as much time teaching the process as we do in practice or in lessons, more players would be more successful.  After asking two outstanding MLB pitchers what they felt was the most important trait that made them successful, being consistant through understanding the process was their answer.

Of course many of the traits mentioned above were considered a prerequisite to their success, but not necessarily made them outstanding.

www.baseballtoolshed.com

"What separates high school, college, and professional players?"

blog.triblive.com

"The process" and Andrew McCutchen

TPM posted:

Sorry for the delay.

I thank you all for the responses. 

I have had a running dialog with my son for the past few weeks about what makes one player more successful than others. What makes Grienke or  Pujols or Jeter so succesful.  

We all know its impossible to reach the top with only one trait.  So assuming that all players have most of the traits mentioned above, what's the add on that makes some more outstanding than others.

We all know that baseball is a game of failure and we all know that there are many players that are more mentally tough than others.  What does makes one player able to sustain a lifelong career over others?  What prevents them from failure.

My answer is consistency.

I am being told that consistency comes from a complete understanding of the process.  I think most people tend to forget how important the process is in being successful. The process is different for pitchers and hitters.  

Perhaps if we spent as much time teaching the process as we do in practice or in lessons, more players would be more successful.  After asking two outstanding MLB pitchers what they felt was the most important trait that made them successful, being consistant through understanding the process was their answer.

Of course many of the traits mentioned above were considered a prerequisite to their success, but not necessarily made them outstanding ( or better at their job than others).

http://baseballtool shed.com/what-seperates-high-school-college-and-professional-baseball-players/

http://blog.triblive.com/bucco-blog/2016/04/27/the-process-and-andrew-mccutchen/#axzz4734Ec3hW

Good stuff, TPM!

Nick Saban, Parcells, Belichick & others are always talking about how success is a byproduct of proper preparation/the process. 

From what I've seen, the great ones love preparing. Manning and Brady come to mind. They enjoy going to practice...it never seems like a chore and it's because they truly love the game but probably love winning even more. 

Now, lots of folks love the game and aren't successful because they lack some or all of the other traits mentioned in thread. IMO, it takes just about everything mentioned to be successful.

Good stuff TPM.  I was unable to open, but found the links: 

http://baseballtoolshed.com/wh...al-baseball-players/

http://blog.triblive.com/bucco...tchen/#axzz477x4iZ72

Gov posted:

Good stuff TPM.  I was unable to open, but found the links: 

http://baseballtoolshed.com/wh...al-baseball-players/

http://blog.triblive.com/bucco...tchen/#axzz477x4iZ72

 

Thanks, I am away and I can't work an apple mac! DUH!

Great post TPM.  I read that article a week or two ago.  Good stuff. 

Truman posted:

Athleticism is top of the list for me.   You can have all that's been mention here previously, but if the player doesn't have athleticism, what do you have?

 

PS:  JCG, looks like we're thinking along the same line.

2020dad posted:

Truman posted:

Athleticism is top of the list for me.   You can have all that's been mention here previously, but if the player doesn't have athleticism, what do you have?

 

PS:  JCG, looks like we're thinking along the same line.

Ditto to you and JCG  it's nice to wax poetic about a lot of stuff but if you do not have God given ability nobody cares  

 

I feel the same way.  Hard working, follows the process, does every thing the coach asks, "Gamer", High Baseball IQ, etc.  NONE of that matters if you don't have talent/good given ability.

2020dad posted:

Truman posted:

Athleticism is top of the list for me.   You can have all that's been mention here previously, but if the player doesn't have athleticism, what do you have?

 

PS:  JCG, looks like we're thinking along the same line.

Ditto to you and JCG  it's nice to wax poetic about a lot of stuff but if you do not have God given ability nobody cares  

 

There are plenty of players with a lot of talent who fail in college and the pros.  Talent is a given as a foundation. If your son proceeds in the game there will be a day where you wonder how separation is created. 

When my son went to East Cobb I told him, "You're not a top 200 talent. You're a next 500-1000. How are you going to separate yourself in the eyes of the college coaches?" It's something every kid who isn't a top shelf stud (most aren't) should be thinking about.

My son knew the answer right away. I was interested to see if he understood the situation he was in. Kids grow up being the stud in their area. I used to say to a friend about some of the local kids, "They're going to be shocked when they go outside the county."

RJM posted:

2020dad posted:

Truman posted:

Athleticism is top of the list for me.   You can have all that's been mention here previously, but if the player doesn't have athleticism, what do you have?

 

PS:  JCG, looks like we're thinking along the same line.

Ditto to you and JCG  it's nice to wax poetic about a lot of stuff but if you do not have God given ability nobody cares  

 

There are plenty of players with a lot of talent who fail in college and the pros.  Talent is a given as a foundation. If your son proceeds in the game there will be a day where you wonder how separation is created. 

When my son went to East Cobb I told him, "You're not a top 200 talent. You're a next 500-1000. How are you going to separate yourself in the eyes of the college coaches?" It's something every kid who isn't a top shelf stud (most aren't) should be thinking about.

My son knew the answer right away. I was interested to see if he understood the situation he was in. Kids grow up being the stud in their area. I used to say to a friend about some of the local kids, "They're going to be shocked when they go outside the county."

Agreed! Obviously, talent is important but as you progress everyone's talented...albeit some more than others. Highly skilled players beat out highly talented players a lot of the time. I think I heard it quoted as "the higher you go, the cheaper your talent becomes."

What being highly talented will get you is more opportunities sometimes as front offices hope that the light comes on one day but sometimes it never does. That's why I stated that being able to take what you've learned and translate it to game situationso is critical. Doing it in practice when there's no pressure is great but won't get you anywhere unless you can deliver when the lights are on. 

Hard work beats talent that don't work hard right?

HSHURLER we've always tried to create high pressure practices so that theyou are used to it. Most kids adjust to it but some dont.

As stated you could be extremely talented but fail in this game. You could be not as talented and figure it out and have a good college career or pro career.

You could be athletic, have  most of the tools but if you aren't consistant, you are not going anywhere.

You can become consistant by learning the process. I believe most athletes don't reach their potential because they can't figure it out.

hshuler posted:

RJM posted:

2020dad posted:

Truman posted:

Athleticism is top of the list for me.   You can have all that's been mention here previously, but if the player doesn't have athleticism, what do you have?

 

PS:  JCG, looks like we're thinking along the same line.

Ditto to you and JCG  it's nice to wax poetic about a lot of stuff but if you do not have God given ability nobody cares  

 

There are plenty of players with a lot of talent who fail in college and the pros.  Talent is a given as a foundation. If your son proceeds in the game there will be a day where you wonder how separation is created. 

When my son went to East Cobb I told him, "You're not a top 200 talent. You're a next 500-1000. How are you going to separate yourself in the eyes of the college coaches?" It's something every kid who isn't a top shelf stud (most aren't) should be thinking about.

My son knew the answer right away. I was interested to see if he understood the situation he was in. Kids grow up being the stud in their area. I used to say to a friend about some of the local kids, "They're going to be shocked when they go outside the county."

Agreed! Obviously, talent is important but as you progress everyone's talented...albeit some more than others. Highly skilled players beat out highly talented players a lot of the time. I think I heard it quoted as "the higher you go, the cheaper your talent becomes."

What being highly talented will get you is more opportunities sometimes as front offices hope that the light comes on one day but sometimes it never does. That's why I stated that being able to take what you've learned and translate it to game situationso is critical. Doing it in practice when there's no pressure is great but won't get you anywhere unless you can deliver when the lights are on. 

You got it. You can practice and practice but if you don't take what you learn and apply it, you will fail.

TPM posted:

Gov posted:

Good stuff TPM.  I was unable to open, but found the links: 

http://baseballtoolshed.com/wh...al-baseball-players/

http://blog.triblive.com/bucco...tchen/#axzz477x4iZ72

 

Thanks, I am away and I can't work an apple mac! DUH!

TPM,

Thanks for providing the links. I forwarded both to my son. 

TPM posted:

As stated you could be extremely talented but fail in this game. You could be not as talented and figure it out and have a good college career or pro career.

You could be athletic, have  most of the tools but if you aren't consistant, you are not going anywhere.

You can become consistant by learning the process. I believe most athletes don't reach their potential because they can't figure it out.

 

I agree that consistency is so very important and it's the big thing that get's a very good player to the majors.

But . . . you can be consistently inconsistent, consistently poor, consistency mediocre or consistently good.  Take a very athletic player who plays well consistently, then you likely have a player that going to reach high levels of play.

So, I'd argue that as important as consistency is, consistency of itself is only important when tied to someone with talent.

Truman posted:

TPM posted:

As stated you could be extremely talented but fail in this game. You could be not as talented and figure it out and have a good college career or pro career.

You could be athletic, have  most of the tools but if you aren't consistant, you are not going anywhere.

You can become consistant by learning the process. I believe most athletes don't reach their potential because they can't figure it out.

 

I agree that consistency is so very important and it's the big thing that get's a very good player to the majors.

But . . . you can be consistently inconsistent, consistently poor, consistency mediocre or consistently good.  Take a very athletic player who plays well consistently, then you likely have a player that going to reach high levels of play.

So, I'd argue that as important as consistency is, consistency of itself is only important when tied to someone with talent.

I wasn't referring to inconsistency or being consistantly bad. 

I was referring to the player being consistant because they understand the process.

All outstanding players have one trait in common that others dont, consistancy.

TPM posted:

Truman posted:

TPM posted:

As stated you could be extremely talented but fail in this game. You could be not as talented and figure it out and have a good college career or pro career.

You could be athletic, have  most of the tools but if you aren't consistant, you are not going anywhere.

You can become consistant by learning the process. I believe most athletes don't reach their potential because they can't figure it out.

 

I agree that consistency is so very important and it's the big thing that get's a very good player to the majors.

But . . . you can be consistently inconsistent, consistently poor, consistency mediocre or consistently good.  Take a very athletic player who plays well consistently, then you likely have a player that going to reach high levels of play.

So, I'd argue that as important as consistency is, consistency of itself is only important when tied to someone with talent.

I wasn't referring to inconsistency or being consistantly bad. 

I was referring to the player being consistant because they understand the process.

All outstanding players have one trait in common that others dont, consistancy.

Yup.   And the Hall of Fame is full of them.  

Outstanding!!!!