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Here is the complete scenario. Tournament play, overtime, California rules. You have the bottom of the inning, tied score. 2nd and 3rd with no outs. Lead off hitter in the box, fast runner on 3rd but not the fastest on the team but still a fast runner, guy on deck 0 for his last 7 and the guy in the hole is 0-3 today all K's.......3-2 count pitcher is throwing from the windup....ball is hit down the 1st base line, 1st base man makes a nice play to his forehand on a two hopper but he is behind the bag and now its a foot race to the bag to get the hitter out because the pitcher is not covering 1st. What do you do with the runner on 3rd?
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I send both runners on contact...make them make the play.

Even if he gets nailed at the plate, I'm hoping the o for 7 kid can get a bunt down in the next at-bat, and I try a squeeze or, if not i look at my pinch-hit options.

However, I am a "law of probability" guy...and the laws of probability would be on the side of the 0 for 7 hitter....going 0 for 8 is not high percentage.
Send the runners on contact. Worst case scenario they throw him out at the plate but the runner from second advances to third and you still have a man on third with less than two outs and your #2 guy (contact hitter) at the plate, regardless of his recent slump. Best case scenario you score and win.

If you don't send the runners you still have one out with a man on third, assuming the play is made at first, so what's the harm in trying? Since it is the bottom of the frame and we're going for the win (did I catch that right?) the man on second means nothing anyway.

And no, I would not bunt. I would look for the 2-hole guy to make hard contact the opposite side either getting a ground ball base hit or a sacfly. Too many things can go wrong with bunts. Popups for example.
Last edited by Bum
I agree with Bum.

Runner on third should have a lead, then a secondary lead on pitcher's delivery. He should be at least 20 feet down the line at contact.

You describe a bouncer that the 1B fields behind the bag. Hard to believe he was playing deep with the winning run at 3d and no outs. But if he was, then 3B coach should've instructed the runner to be prepared to break on anything hit that way, even before contact was made.

Had the runner gone on contact, 1B likely would've had to give up any attempt on the batter-runner because he cannot afford to just let the winning run score. If he does have a brain cramp and goes for the out at first, your man scores easily. If the play goes home, I would add to the worst case scenario that Bum notes by saying in all likelihood you have 1st and 3rd, still only one out. But most likely with him playing deep, you win the game on this play.

Go for the jugular, go for the win in that situation.
Last edited by Midlo Dad
Given your situation, this is a no-brainer. They have to be advancing upon contact. A ground ball to the first baseman in this situation, the runner has to try to score. Unless he gets a bad break or is very slow, he should score. Even if he's out, you still have the winning run on third. You only gotta score once, go for it, no questions or hesitation.
Great, thanks for the reinforcment. I think talking with you all have helped me cleared my conscience . He's the deal. I really dislike our manager. He always defends our head coach. (little backround for you, 1 paid manager, 2 paid coaches, none have boys on the team. u-13 team fee was $1,400) even when the coach makes big mistakes. Not saying this is a big mistake but there has been plenty of others. The manager is the type of guy who will always defend the coach and who gets all defensive himself. He never states that was wrong or we made a mistake there but instead he'll start telling you his background, That I have been doing this for 18 years and I won this and won that. I have yet to tell him mine (background) and don't feel the need too since we will only be playing with him this one year. I feel if you have to tell someone how good you are or were, you weren't. Your actions should speak enough. Anyways a couple of times they have asked me to help out at pratices and I see him teaching the boys wrong things, he goes into these long demostartions and gets off subject by saying the last state championship I won we did this. I look around and see some parents smile and think they are getting great advise. I call this "BIG HAT, NO CATTLE" talks a good game but that's about it. I have talked to him off on the side and told him I really don't agree with that and this is why. He has been stating things that make me question his knowledge, for example.... About a week ago we are playing a team and they switch pitchers, they bring in a boy who does not throw as hard as the first and all he is throwing is fastballs. He starts telling all the boys to move up in the box and then walks over to the dug out and tells the coaches to tell the boys to move up in the box. (manager does not sit in the dug out with boys, likes to walk around and talk to all the parents.) He walks over by me and some other parents and I ask him why did you tell the boys to move up in the box? he looks at the other parents And he proceeds to go on and on about a game ten years ago blah....blah... He then asks me what would I have told them. I stated, what you are telling the boys to do teaches them nothing. (his big statement that he likes to say is always around player development, teaching

and getting them ready for high school ball)You are only fixing the problem for now. What you need to tell the boys is this. Boys, you have to think change up, what do you do when you know its a change up, you wait and drive the ball back up the middle or oppisite field. I told him I would advise the boys to think change up every pitch now and wait, take your normal stance in the box and lets drive the ball. This way you are teaching the boys the correct thing to do. He looks at me with a deer in headlights look and then proceeds to say hi to another parent and walks away. I'm so sorry for rambling on and on but I have to rant. So we have played about 40 games already this year. All of which he has attended and everygame he says something stupid or worse gives bad advise. And still some parents don't even know and they buy into what he is saying. Others are seeing the light and are now too not happy with him and some of the coaches calls. Anyways this is what ticked me off yesterday and I said something from my seat and not in a one on one situation. My boy was the boy in the box hitting when I started this thread, his 1st two pitches (fastballs) he saw he fouled back. The manager yells from the stands "keep all your weight back on your back foot and look for something in. Which started to errrk me, For one my boy is not a rotational style hitter, he's been taught the linear hitting style (transferring the weight) from the get go. (son's background, leads team in hitting, OBP, doubles, stolen bases and in 40+ games has only struck out 4 times.) So he's telling him something that he has been taught not to do, and to look for something in. Remember the count is 0-2, no outs, left side of infield in. Boy works count full by laying off outside curve balls (right handed pitcher). Catcher you can see is still setting up outside, Boy hits ball down 1st base line, (you know the story) coach holds boy on 3rd, My boy out at 1st, he turns and starts clapping thinking we just won the game and then realizes runner still on third. As he is running back to the dugout (3rd base side) he holds his hands out to his teammates as if to say why didn't he go? Parents are grumbling, they know runner should have scored and the manager proceeds to turn around and tell the parents the coach did the right thing there by not sending the runner. For me that was enough. I told him. Stop defending the coach everytime he makes a mistake, for once is would be nice to hear from you that we needed that one or something to that effect, and don't give me how you won this and did that, with all your great baseball wisdom and knowledge how is it that in the past 40 games you haven't noticed that David is not a rotanation hitter and telling him him to keep all his weight on his back foot and look for something in with that count is wrong. As I said I was ticked. The manager stood there looking shocked with the face of I'm caught. Before he could answer the next boy got hit by the 1st pitch to load the bases and the next pitch went to the backstop and we won. He left without saying a word to me, and another parent came up to me and said he has no clue and I think he talks just to hear himself talk. Sorry for the rant, and thanks for listening.

#2's dad
#2's dad, Like I said before.
The 3rd base Coach should not be in the equation.
Runner goes on first contact to right side.

Some simple advice, Don't get caught up in the politic's are anything else that has to do with your son's Baseball.
Including talking to or about his coach.
Just play the season out and move on.
At this age it's just about playing the game and having fun.

Your Player will come across all kind's of coaches if he keeps playing.
Keep your opinion to yourselve, It will not help your son out.
He will figure it out, and make his own opinion.

Relax and enjoy the game.
The baseball will take care of itself.
EH
I knew there would be a rant behind this one... EH gives you good advice dad. Being frustrated at the moment is OK, but when the game's over, it's over. Talk to your boy about your opinion of what the play should or should not have been and trust his ability to sort things out for himself. After all - he's 13. He'll barely listen to much of what any adult says to him anyway!

On the other hand - $1400 for a 13-year old travel team? PAID coaches? YIKES! Maybe what you're paying for is the right to gripe!
Thanks, I know what you are saying. I have never talked to the coach, just the manager. He stated in a team meeting any baseball concerns should be addressed to him since the head coach is a little inexperienced. He (the manager) walks the stands during the game like is he running for Mayor. My wife asked me when I asked him why he is telling the boys to move up in the box question. Why I did that? I told her I didn't think he really knew why and I wanted him to know he might be able to fool others but he is not going to fool me with his BS. I told her we are paying Mo's prices (very nice steak place) and are getting Ponderosa quality. It's just frustrating because I have caught this manager in lies 3 times reguading money and the team in one on one conversations. He acts as if nothing is wrong because we are winning. And yesterday was all I could take from him. I got a call today from another parent. Who told me they sent a e-mail to him asking him for the team budget and he replied, in 18 years of running teams I have never been ask to supply one. The parent replied I know 4 other familes have asked for one this year. So don't tell me that. The manager replied at this point of the season it would only be a guess. The Parent replied, Then guess. The manager replied. I am not going to discuss my salary, the coaches or what expenses we have. The parent asked me if we should be concerned about our money. Realize 12 families have paid him $1,400 each and there is no other team in the area that charges that amount. And for Pete's sake we pay this guy's and the coach's salaries. Thank God the boy goes to high school next fall and his HS coach is a good friend of mine who I played ball with for many years. I should have listen to him early in the year when he told me this manager was a goof and a crook but we had already paid in. As I was typing this I got a call from a different parent which made me laugh and feel much better. He told me our manager got yelled at at his son's game yesterday and he now must stay away at least 100 feet from his son's high school team dugout because the head coach caught him trying to tell a boy what he was doing wrong at the plate. And the coach yelled that's not what we teach here and don't ever talk to one of my players again during a game. Believe me typing this out helps, because I have not told anyone else how I felt up to this point and starting this thread. And I have not mentioned about the lies I caught him in to other parents yet. I think I going to sit back now and watch how this unfold now that another parent is concerned about the money and has mentioned that they will be letting others know. Thanks for reading all of this and allowing me to vent.
I've got to chip in 2 things:
1) don't blame the base coach much if a guy doesn't run. If you have to be told to go, it's usually too late. He needed to know pre-pitch, ball down on right side we are going (unless they had infield in) then it's "see it thru"
2) He's said enough ridiculous things about hitting he doesn't have much credibility but don't let that poison your boys relationship with him. Tell your kid to go have fun, and hit the ball hard; the guy will probably take credit for it when the kid is going good (and maybe try to coach him a lot if he's not) but don't let it affect the boy's fun summer.

good luck.... we've all been there at some point.
Instincts are a huge part of the game of baseball---some kids don't have them and I do not believe they can be created---you either are given the gift or you not

The huge problem I see today is that there are too many people telling the kids what to do or not do and many of those telling him things are not truly qualified--yes they mean well but they are not baseball smart and it is hurting the overall game of the young players

The most fun is when you win a tournament or a kid a hit a home run in a big spot and the "know it alls" second guess you---

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