I know we have talked about this in the past but I think it merits being talked about again due to the amount of new memebers we have now.
What do you expect to get out of a showcase?
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Good showcases are attended by the coaches or scouts from as many colleges or teams as possible.
In a perfect world it will be attended by the schools and teams that you are interested in playing for.
The showcase should give you the opportunity to exhibit your talents in the five tools that scouts look for.
It's the gold standard, the accepted yardstick used to rate baseball players. For the record, the five tools are
1) hitting for average,
2) hitting for power,(HR's)
3) running speed,(60 yds under 7 sec)
4) arm strength (90+)
5) fielding ability.
Five-tool players get the key hits, big home runs, timely stolen bases, they throw out the tying run at the plate and make spectacular defensive plays.
Read this article for insights into being or becoming a five tool player.
http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/sports2000/players/151063.html
In a perfect world it will be attended by the schools and teams that you are interested in playing for.
The showcase should give you the opportunity to exhibit your talents in the five tools that scouts look for.
It's the gold standard, the accepted yardstick used to rate baseball players. For the record, the five tools are
1) hitting for average,
2) hitting for power,(HR's)
3) running speed,(60 yds under 7 sec)
4) arm strength (90+)
5) fielding ability.
Five-tool players get the key hits, big home runs, timely stolen bases, they throw out the tying run at the plate and make spectacular defensive plays.
Read this article for insights into being or becoming a five tool player.
http://www.sportingnews.com/archives/sports2000/players/151063.html
Willie
How many 5 tool players do your think there are at the HS level across the country?
How many 5 tool players do your think there are at the HS level across the country?
I would say that there are thousands.
Most either opt out of baseball for other sports or are instructed into poor habits.
Mainly I see the use of the Tee for younger players as a major detriment to their development.
I look at young Dominican players' swing as compared to what I have come to call 'the Florida Swing'.
Most young players are taught in a manner where they take years to learn how to hit a curve ball.
Most either opt out of baseball for other sports or are instructed into poor habits.
Mainly I see the use of the Tee for younger players as a major detriment to their development.
I look at young Dominican players' swing as compared to what I have come to call 'the Florida Swing'.
Most young players are taught in a manner where they take years to learn how to hit a curve ball.
WillieBobo-
I have to respectfully disagree.
I guess part of this discussion warrants further definition.
How do you DEFINE whether or not a player possesses a particular tool?
It appears you are stating that a sub 7 60 time qualifies as having the speed tool.
But here's some data:
At the December, 2005 PG National Underclass Showcase, 500 players were fully graded/timed. Of those, only 33 (6.6%) had sub 7 60 yd times.
I realize that is only one tool, but I have read here and in other sources that MANY colleges (DI even) take two tool or 3 tool players.
While I certainly believe there are more than just a "handful" of 5 tool players at the HS level, I have a hard time believing it is in the thousands.
Again, I go back to my original question, how does one define the "possession" of a particular tool?????
I have to respectfully disagree.
I guess part of this discussion warrants further definition.
How do you DEFINE whether or not a player possesses a particular tool?
It appears you are stating that a sub 7 60 time qualifies as having the speed tool.
But here's some data:
At the December, 2005 PG National Underclass Showcase, 500 players were fully graded/timed. Of those, only 33 (6.6%) had sub 7 60 yd times.
I realize that is only one tool, but I have read here and in other sources that MANY colleges (DI even) take two tool or 3 tool players.
While I certainly believe there are more than just a "handful" of 5 tool players at the HS level, I have a hard time believing it is in the thousands.
Again, I go back to my original question, how does one define the "possession" of a particular tool?????
I would like to respond to TRHit's original question.
One should expect the showcase is organized, not chaotic. You should be timed in the 60, have an opportunity to show all aspects of your game (i.e. the 5 tools).
It should be more than just a workout. There should be games. This allows both position players and pitchers to show "what they got" in a game setting.
In the end, the showcase should be attended by scouts that are from schools you are interested in attending or from an organization that will supply good data/feedback/information to those schools.
One should expect the showcase is organized, not chaotic. You should be timed in the 60, have an opportunity to show all aspects of your game (i.e. the 5 tools).
It should be more than just a workout. There should be games. This allows both position players and pitchers to show "what they got" in a game setting.
In the end, the showcase should be attended by scouts that are from schools you are interested in attending or from an organization that will supply good data/feedback/information to those schools.
Showcase staff have the ability to time speed of pitches and running speed.
Batting and fielding ability are exhibited.
The determination of one having a 'tool' or not is usually subjective with the exceptions of the speed and the balls over the fence.
In this day and age the emphasis is on hitting rather than in being a complete ball player.
Batting and fielding ability are exhibited.
The determination of one having a 'tool' or not is usually subjective with the exceptions of the speed and the balls over the fence.
In this day and age the emphasis is on hitting rather than in being a complete ball player.
Willie-
Agree with all of your points. The key is that batting and fielding are subjective. One person (scout) may feel someone has fielding ability while another does not.
I absolutely agree with you that today's main emphasis is on hitting.
I guess what I am trying to say is that using my small sample of the PG showcase I mentioned, only 6.7% possessed the speed tool. There are approx. 450,000 HS baseball players across the country. Let's assume on the low end (5%) and the high end (10%) possess the speed tool. That equals between 22,500 and 45,000 HS players having sub 7 speed. How many of those players exhibit the other 4 tools? How about just the power tool? I am GUESSING that no more than 25% of these players possess speed AND power. Now we're down to 5,625 and 11,250. Now add in the other 3 tools and I would say at the HIGH end there MAY be 2,000 5 tool HS players in the country.
You are probably very right that the are many more 5 tool Dominican players than US players (certainly at least on a %age basis).
I am not a scout or even a coach. Just a parents who likes to analyze numbers.
Agree with all of your points. The key is that batting and fielding are subjective. One person (scout) may feel someone has fielding ability while another does not.
I absolutely agree with you that today's main emphasis is on hitting.
I guess what I am trying to say is that using my small sample of the PG showcase I mentioned, only 6.7% possessed the speed tool. There are approx. 450,000 HS baseball players across the country. Let's assume on the low end (5%) and the high end (10%) possess the speed tool. That equals between 22,500 and 45,000 HS players having sub 7 speed. How many of those players exhibit the other 4 tools? How about just the power tool? I am GUESSING that no more than 25% of these players possess speed AND power. Now we're down to 5,625 and 11,250. Now add in the other 3 tools and I would say at the HIGH end there MAY be 2,000 5 tool HS players in the country.
You are probably very right that the are many more 5 tool Dominican players than US players (certainly at least on a %age basis).
I am not a scout or even a coach. Just a parents who likes to analyze numbers.
If you include the kids who leave baseball either because it is cost prohibitive or because they enjoy other sports, the numbers fly well into the thousands.
HS football players have the best opportunity to play both sports, but HS basketball and track members are limited by the conflicting schedules.
In some states, baseball is practically a year round affair where coaches are easily offended if a player opts not concentrate on his sport.
Young players who have excelled at the game lose interest in high school waiting to get their opportunity while the upper classmen have the field.
HS football players have the best opportunity to play both sports, but HS basketball and track members are limited by the conflicting schedules.
In some states, baseball is practically a year round affair where coaches are easily offended if a player opts not concentrate on his sport.
Young players who have excelled at the game lose interest in high school waiting to get their opportunity while the upper classmen have the field.
Great points....I agree in the Sun belt states baseball is typically a year round affair.
We live in Northern VA and that is not the case. My son plays FB and Baseball (08). While upperclassmen have the field in general, he made and started on varsity as a freshman last season. So it can be done...at least here anyways.
I am a firm believer that "hitting a round ball with a round bat" is still one of the hardest tasks in sports. And as such, I feel that causes much of the fallout in baseball. Plus, how many things can we do where being successful 30% of the time puts you in the upper echelon (at least at HS and above)?
Your point about cost plays into this in many different ways. What about college scholarships? How many baseball players get full rides vs. football/basketball players?
Anyways, I think you made excellent points about what one should expect from a showcase...........
We live in Northern VA and that is not the case. My son plays FB and Baseball (08). While upperclassmen have the field in general, he made and started on varsity as a freshman last season. So it can be done...at least here anyways.
I am a firm believer that "hitting a round ball with a round bat" is still one of the hardest tasks in sports. And as such, I feel that causes much of the fallout in baseball. Plus, how many things can we do where being successful 30% of the time puts you in the upper echelon (at least at HS and above)?
Your point about cost plays into this in many different ways. What about college scholarships? How many baseball players get full rides vs. football/basketball players?
Anyways, I think you made excellent points about what one should expect from a showcase...........
Jbbaseball,
I appreciate your analytical approach using the PG example. But I'll bet there aren't 200 HS 5 tool players a year I'd say more like 20. Having speed and Power are the keys.
To have a tool it probably - I'm guessing here -(jump in experts) has to be above 60 on the 20-80 scale. That means below a 6.7 for speed and able to hit at least 5 plus HRs with wood in a 25 pitch BP.
Think to yourself. How many HS kids did you see in the last 5 years that could do that?
If there were 100 5 tool position players a year in the draft....wow!
I sound cynical even to myself...say it ain't so BBscout or PG
I appreciate your analytical approach using the PG example. But I'll bet there aren't 200 HS 5 tool players a year I'd say more like 20. Having speed and Power are the keys.
To have a tool it probably - I'm guessing here -(jump in experts) has to be above 60 on the 20-80 scale. That means below a 6.7 for speed and able to hit at least 5 plus HRs with wood in a 25 pitch BP.
Think to yourself. How many HS kids did you see in the last 5 years that could do that?
If there were 100 5 tool position players a year in the draft....wow!
I sound cynical even to myself...say it ain't so BBscout or PG
Willie,
Can you clarify, working w/ a tee ruins the swing and what's the "Florida Swing?"
Can you clarify, working w/ a tee ruins the swing and what's the "Florida Swing?"
mrmom,
You're pretty much correct. Only your estimate of 20 players with 5 tools is too high, much too high.
We see most of the very most talented high school players in the country each year. Been doing it for 13 or 14 years and before that scouting and coaching. Don't think I have seen 20 true "5 tool" high school players in my entire life!
In a typical draft year there might be one or two 5 tool players. Some years there are none!
There aren't very many 5 tool players in the Big Leagues, let alone high school baseball.
Maybe others will chime in on this subject with differing opinions.
You're pretty much correct. Only your estimate of 20 players with 5 tools is too high, much too high.
We see most of the very most talented high school players in the country each year. Been doing it for 13 or 14 years and before that scouting and coaching. Don't think I have seen 20 true "5 tool" high school players in my entire life!
In a typical draft year there might be one or two 5 tool players. Some years there are none!
There aren't very many 5 tool players in the Big Leagues, let alone high school baseball.
Maybe others will chime in on this subject with differing opinions.
PG, 5 tools in the Bigs, haven't seen it.
I don't know of one.
The past twenty years +, its all about power hitter.
And good Defense is out the window.
Wait till the Yankee Fan's get aload of Damon's weak Arm.
I can hear the BOO's now.
Showcases and what to expect. A place to showcase your talent
with other good players.
I would like to see a showcase that last's a little longer.
More Game's to get an overall view of a players ability.
Maybe for Position players that are also Pitchers, a solid Bull pen, are more innings in a game.
There's 60 times, but then there's baseball fast and that should be taken into account.
Not all runner's get a good jump out of the blocks, and that would shave a couple of Tenth's off the time.
Maybe away for the players to tell the colleges that there interested in there school while there at the event.
maybe the recruitor would pay a little more attention to that player?
A showcase for late Bloomers, some players are just more physically mature at 15, and project early on.
but other players catch them by there senior year if not pass them. The so called under the radar type's.
Other wise you Guys are doing a great job, keep up the good work. The EH
I don't know of one.
The past twenty years +, its all about power hitter.
And good Defense is out the window.
Wait till the Yankee Fan's get aload of Damon's weak Arm.
I can hear the BOO's now.
Showcases and what to expect. A place to showcase your talent
with other good players.
I would like to see a showcase that last's a little longer.
More Game's to get an overall view of a players ability.
Maybe for Position players that are also Pitchers, a solid Bull pen, are more innings in a game.
There's 60 times, but then there's baseball fast and that should be taken into account.
Not all runner's get a good jump out of the blocks, and that would shave a couple of Tenth's off the time.
Maybe away for the players to tell the colleges that there interested in there school while there at the event.
maybe the recruitor would pay a little more attention to that player?
A showcase for late Bloomers, some players are just more physically mature at 15, and project early on.
but other players catch them by there senior year if not pass them. The so called under the radar type's.
Other wise you Guys are doing a great job, keep up the good work. The EH
From my observations over the years, once the Tee was introduced as the end all be all method of teaching batting to children overall hitting ability has declined.
The Tee restricts the swing from the height of the Tee upwards producing children who cannot hit a breaking ball or low pitch.
Further the 'Florida Swing' is the Tee swing. It is basically a waist high pitch hitting ability. If you examine the 'Red' zones of Tee hitting professionals, you will see how limited their swing is.
Any real Five Tool baseball player who is overlooked for whatever reason, would and should leave baseball in HS and pursue football and /or basketball , if not that other game.
The economics of baseball make it the least favorable sport to play and pursue. The scholarships are limited in comparison to other sports.
The costs of baseball equiptment and tournaments can be excessive to most families.
The cost of a showcase would be totally out of the question for the economically challenged.
The Tee restricts the swing from the height of the Tee upwards producing children who cannot hit a breaking ball or low pitch.
Further the 'Florida Swing' is the Tee swing. It is basically a waist high pitch hitting ability. If you examine the 'Red' zones of Tee hitting professionals, you will see how limited their swing is.
Any real Five Tool baseball player who is overlooked for whatever reason, would and should leave baseball in HS and pursue football and /or basketball , if not that other game.
The economics of baseball make it the least favorable sport to play and pursue. The scholarships are limited in comparison to other sports.
The costs of baseball equiptment and tournaments can be excessive to most families.
The cost of a showcase would be totally out of the question for the economically challenged.
Lobo
I think you are wrong regarding the monetary issue--there are ways and means if a kid wants to work at it--trust me
I think you are wrong regarding the monetary issue--there are ways and means if a kid wants to work at it--trust me
In my days of playing ball I have seen organizations who sponsored ball teams and players.
Most prominently I remember the Goya teams.
There were others but all were ethnic or religious groups who would not usually include outsiders.
I have always been thankful for the PAL and the players on Randall's Island who would throw equiptment into the kill between the island and the Bronx. My buddies and I would fish out the gloves and balls and set them in the sun to dry. We would nail bats back together and use them until they broke beyond repair.
The first Yankee Bat Day was a team outng because the bats were free with the price of 75 cents for the bleachers.
Today there are still people and groups who sponsor players and teams, but it takes luck and good timing many times to find them.
Most prominently I remember the Goya teams.
There were others but all were ethnic or religious groups who would not usually include outsiders.
I have always been thankful for the PAL and the players on Randall's Island who would throw equiptment into the kill between the island and the Bronx. My buddies and I would fish out the gloves and balls and set them in the sun to dry. We would nail bats back together and use them until they broke beyond repair.
The first Yankee Bat Day was a team outng because the bats were free with the price of 75 cents for the bleachers.
Today there are still people and groups who sponsor players and teams, but it takes luck and good timing many times to find them.
LOBO
You and I might be the only ones who know what you are talking about with regards to Randalls Island
You and I might be the only ones who know what you are talking about with regards to Randalls Island
Do you think people are wondering about what the 'kill' is between the island and the Bronx?
Being from the NW we didn't have equipment.
We used bark from a tree for a glove.
a round rock for a ball.
and a tree branch for a Bat.
Cow pasture for a field.
You could guess what we used for bases.
A kid that had PF Flyers was rich.
And the barnyard animals were part of the Team. LOL The EH
We used bark from a tree for a glove.
a round rock for a ball.
and a tree branch for a Bat.
Cow pasture for a field.
You could guess what we used for bases.
A kid that had PF Flyers was rich.
And the barnyard animals were part of the Team. LOL The EH
A Rod is a true 5 tool player! Griffy was too before all the injuries. That put two of them on one team. There aren't/weren't very many of them.
Being the Land of the Giant Sequoias, swinging a tree branch would be impressive.
Arod I suppose would be as close to a 5 toolplayer as any.
Griffey also.
I watched them grow up in the NW.
But they still had holes.
Griffey never had a great arm, are was not that accurate.
Neather was the best hitter in the clutch.
That honer went to MR. Edger Martinez.
Who in my Opinion should be a first ballot HOF.
If he played in NY, or Boston he would have been the greatest hitter in the clutch of all Time. The EH
Griffey also.
I watched them grow up in the NW.
But they still had holes.
Griffey never had a great arm, are was not that accurate.
Neather was the best hitter in the clutch.
That honer went to MR. Edger Martinez.
Who in my Opinion should be a first ballot HOF.
If he played in NY, or Boston he would have been the greatest hitter in the clutch of all Time. The EH
Willie bobo;
The tree branch wasn't that hard to swing.
But sliding into home with the Cow blocking the plate was a little rough. LOL
The tree branch wasn't that hard to swing.
But sliding into home with the Cow blocking the plate was a little rough. LOL
quote:Arod I suppose would be as close to a 5 toolplayer as any.
EH,
He's even closer than that!
Is hitting in the clutch a Tool?
Arod is a great player no doubt, I'm just not a fan of Money first ball players.
Cal Ripken JR. is my kind of player.
Arod is a great player no doubt, I'm just not a fan of Money first ball players.
Cal Ripken JR. is my kind of player.
No doubt on Edgar.
He may have been the toughest out in baseball.
In the clutch, I'd take Edgar over Griffey or Arod.
He may have been the toughest out in baseball.
In the clutch, I'd take Edgar over Griffey or Arod.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
You and I might be the only ones who know what you are talking about with regards to Randalls Island
Is that before or after RISF?
Tools are tools. There comes a time when application of the tools is what truly matters.
I've seen players with high level bat speed take called strike threes down the middle at key times. I've seen great arms throw baseballs into stands and dugouts. I've seen pitchers throwing 92-93 that can't get people out or even get strikes over the plate in a game. We all have.
You cannot be successful in baseball unless you possess basic talents. There are adjustments that players can make to overcome shortcomings. A catcher without a cannon can offset that with a quick release and getting the ball to the base where a tag can be applied quickly. A runner without great speed must anticipate and run efficiently on the basepaths. A pitcher without great velocity must change speeds and hit spots.
The ARods and Griffeys are examples of five-tool guys who lived up to the tools. Edgar is a two-tool guy - he could hit and hit for power. Couldn't field, throw or run. But many feel he's a hall of famer. I agree that he was great in pressure situations. Is he a guy I'd want up with a game on the line? Absolutely. But I also wouldn't mind having Griffey or ARod.
Many of the greatest players ever lacked one or more "tools". Bonds had four tools, not having a great arm, yet he threw people out by making very accurate throws. George Brett wasn't a great runner. Mike Piazza is awful defensively. Yet all three are/will be in the HoF because they were so prolific in other facets.
And just to put it out there, the greatest tools ever in baseball belonged to Willie Mays.
The stop watch and the radar gun are important in discovering and recording tools. But I'm more impressed with a players' body of work over a long period. Give me a player who gets it done when it matters today and in many to most cases, I'll show you a player who will be succcessful in the future. Even if some of the "Tools" people seem to bank so much on aren't at the highest level.
I've seen players with high level bat speed take called strike threes down the middle at key times. I've seen great arms throw baseballs into stands and dugouts. I've seen pitchers throwing 92-93 that can't get people out or even get strikes over the plate in a game. We all have.
You cannot be successful in baseball unless you possess basic talents. There are adjustments that players can make to overcome shortcomings. A catcher without a cannon can offset that with a quick release and getting the ball to the base where a tag can be applied quickly. A runner without great speed must anticipate and run efficiently on the basepaths. A pitcher without great velocity must change speeds and hit spots.
The ARods and Griffeys are examples of five-tool guys who lived up to the tools. Edgar is a two-tool guy - he could hit and hit for power. Couldn't field, throw or run. But many feel he's a hall of famer. I agree that he was great in pressure situations. Is he a guy I'd want up with a game on the line? Absolutely. But I also wouldn't mind having Griffey or ARod.
Many of the greatest players ever lacked one or more "tools". Bonds had four tools, not having a great arm, yet he threw people out by making very accurate throws. George Brett wasn't a great runner. Mike Piazza is awful defensively. Yet all three are/will be in the HoF because they were so prolific in other facets.
And just to put it out there, the greatest tools ever in baseball belonged to Willie Mays.
The stop watch and the radar gun are important in discovering and recording tools. But I'm more impressed with a players' body of work over a long period. Give me a player who gets it done when it matters today and in many to most cases, I'll show you a player who will be succcessful in the future. Even if some of the "Tools" people seem to bank so much on aren't at the highest level.
quote:I'd want up with a game on the line
Great post 1228. Many great statements, indeed.
My choice would be Terry Pendleton if game was on the line
Shep Acknowledges
Interesting how this thread went from the original showcase theme to a discussion of 5 tool players
Also I find it interesting how many think that 5 tool players are plentiful
Also I find it interesting how many think that 5 tool players are plentiful
TR,
Not including Major League Baseball players, I've probably seen less than 10 five-tool prospects ever. Five tools in one place are very, very rare. Transitions from Showcase to tools are very understandable.
Not including Major League Baseball players, I've probably seen less than 10 five-tool prospects ever. Five tools in one place are very, very rare. Transitions from Showcase to tools are very understandable.
TR;
You know how we all go off on a Tangent Subject. It just happens.
I don't think people were saying that there were alot of 5 tool players.
In fact I don't know of any true 5 tool players.
I can find fault in all of them.
A true 5 tool player according to the EH.
hits .500
throws 105 mph.
100 HR. in a season
6.0 flat 60yd dash.
Has a vertical leap of 60in.
And Hands are so big he doesn't need a glove. LOL
You know how we all go off on a Tangent Subject. It just happens.
I don't think people were saying that there were alot of 5 tool players.
In fact I don't know of any true 5 tool players.
I can find fault in all of them.
A true 5 tool player according to the EH.
hits .500
throws 105 mph.
100 HR. in a season
6.0 flat 60yd dash.
Has a vertical leap of 60in.
And Hands are so big he doesn't need a glove. LOL
quote:And Hands are so big he doesn't need a glove. LOL
Shook hands with this HR hitter up in Atlanta once that hand hands this big
In fact, about 755 big
I must admit that in my shock of reading WillieBobo's oringinal post that there are "thousands" of 5 tool HS players, I set out to run some numbers to show that couldn't be possible.
In my haste to just crunch numbers, I forgot reality
In my 35+ years of being a passionate baseball fan, plus 10 years of coaching youth baseball, I must agree with the gentlemen who have WAY more expertise in these areas (i.e. PG Staff and TRHit) that there are very few 5 tool players.
I live in Northern VA, but my son (08) has played in numerous National tournaments since he was 10. And when I really think about it, I don't think I have seen a 5 tool player yet .(at the HS Level)
Have I seen 3 tools? Absolutely. Have I seen 4 tools? MAYBE 4 or 5 players. But no 5 tools. I have to agree with someone's earlier post is that it is SO rare to see POWER AND SPEED in one person.
So, in my zeal to disprove someone's assertion (Williebobo's), I "forgot" reality. My apologies
TR....I am guilty as charged as being one of those "hijacking" this thread..but in my defense your honor, I did answer your original question!
In my haste to just crunch numbers, I forgot reality
In my 35+ years of being a passionate baseball fan, plus 10 years of coaching youth baseball, I must agree with the gentlemen who have WAY more expertise in these areas (i.e. PG Staff and TRHit) that there are very few 5 tool players.
I live in Northern VA, but my son (08) has played in numerous National tournaments since he was 10. And when I really think about it, I don't think I have seen a 5 tool player yet .(at the HS Level)
Have I seen 3 tools? Absolutely. Have I seen 4 tools? MAYBE 4 or 5 players. But no 5 tools. I have to agree with someone's earlier post is that it is SO rare to see POWER AND SPEED in one person.
So, in my zeal to disprove someone's assertion (Williebobo's), I "forgot" reality. My apologies
TR....I am guilty as charged as being one of those "hijacking" this thread..but in my defense your honor, I did answer your original question!
Arod also has huge Hands.
I don't think he was trying to knock the ball out of the players glove. his hands just got in the way. LOL
I don't think he was trying to knock the ball out of the players glove. his hands just got in the way. LOL
You won't find the majority of great athletes at tournaments or showcases unless someone is sponsoring them.
The average tournament or showcase cost a player two hundred fifty dollars with most organizations, sometimes more. That doesn't include food or lodging.
My contention has always been that you see the kids with some talent whose families can afford the tab.
Using showcase stats as the pool for players is a vert limited subject group.
Showcases can show the overall talent as gauged by the five tools.
They have their purposes and have benefitted many.
The average tournament or showcase cost a player two hundred fifty dollars with most organizations, sometimes more. That doesn't include food or lodging.
My contention has always been that you see the kids with some talent whose families can afford the tab.
Using showcase stats as the pool for players is a vert limited subject group.
Showcases can show the overall talent as gauged by the five tools.
They have their purposes and have benefitted many.
I guess I'm still on the tangent of what it takes to be a 5 tool player. I kind of thought that to be a 5 tool player one would be proficient, not necessarilly a record setter in each of the 5 catagories. I am really a newbee, so please set me straight if I am off base.
I agree that speed would be sub 7.0, hitting for average I would have figured to be able to consistantly hit above 300 at the MLB level, maybe above 400-500 at the HS level, Hitting for power I assumed was extra base hits...doubles, triples and HR's. Not just HR's.
Strong arm I figured was in the 80's in HS, maybe 90's pro for a position player??? Not talking about pitching, how many pitchers could be considered a 5 tool player??! Strong glove I figured not having alot of errors, while still being agressive enough to really try for the ball you may never get to. Am I off base? Not saying I have seen 5 tool players, but it would be good to know what to look for to be able to know if I came across one.
I agree that speed would be sub 7.0, hitting for average I would have figured to be able to consistantly hit above 300 at the MLB level, maybe above 400-500 at the HS level, Hitting for power I assumed was extra base hits...doubles, triples and HR's. Not just HR's.
Strong arm I figured was in the 80's in HS, maybe 90's pro for a position player??? Not talking about pitching, how many pitchers could be considered a 5 tool player??! Strong glove I figured not having alot of errors, while still being agressive enough to really try for the ball you may never get to. Am I off base? Not saying I have seen 5 tool players, but it would be good to know what to look for to be able to know if I came across one.
quote:You won't find the majority of great athletes at tournaments or showcases unless someone is sponsoring them.
This is untrue... 36 players who were selected in the 1st round and Supp. 1st round last year who have attended PG tournaments and showcases. This included 17 of the first 21 picks. To my knowledge they all payed! You live in Tampa, ask Kazmir, Upton, Crawford or any other of over 100 first rounders.
The average tournament or showcase cost a player two hundred fifty dollars with most organizations, sometimes more. That doesn't include food or lodging.
Actually the average price is higher than that at PG events.
My contention has always been that you see the kids with some talent whose families can afford the tab.
Listed above is some talent! And there were over 800 2005 draft picks who attend PG events. That's well over half of the entire draft!
Using showcase stats as the pool for players is a vert limited subject group.
Seems like the results show a very extensive subject group. It includes the vast majority of the very best prospects in baseball every year.
Showcases can show the overall talent as gauged by the five tools.
Yes and much more!
They have their purposes and have benefitted many.
This is very true! However, the events don't replace talent. Players need to pocess the required talent to benifit greatly.
floridafan,
The definition of the 5 tool player can be confusing.
In any definition it would include all 5 tools being at least MLB Average. My personal definition and I think the one most baseball scouts would use... is 5 above average tools!
Very seldom do you see a high school player with 5 MLB average tools. It is extremely rare to see 5 above average tools in a high school player. Justin Upton is as close as it gets, but he might not grade out an above average fielder as a shortstop. As a Centerfielder he is a true 5 tool guy, maybe the best tools guy ever out of high school.
It's usually MLB above average power that is lacking in a high school prospect. For those who don't believe that statement... Start with POWER (have to have it to have 5 tools) Take all the above average power guys (there's not many of them) and then check their other 4 tools. People will start to understand how rare 5 tool players are in high school.
Power can be (and often is) developed later on. So there is a chance that a 3 or 4 tool player could develop into a 5 tool player. It doesn't happen very often, though.
The definition of the 5 tool player can be confusing.
In any definition it would include all 5 tools being at least MLB Average. My personal definition and I think the one most baseball scouts would use... is 5 above average tools!
Very seldom do you see a high school player with 5 MLB average tools. It is extremely rare to see 5 above average tools in a high school player. Justin Upton is as close as it gets, but he might not grade out an above average fielder as a shortstop. As a Centerfielder he is a true 5 tool guy, maybe the best tools guy ever out of high school.
It's usually MLB above average power that is lacking in a high school prospect. For those who don't believe that statement... Start with POWER (have to have it to have 5 tools) Take all the above average power guys (there's not many of them) and then check their other 4 tools. People will start to understand how rare 5 tool players are in high school.
Power can be (and often is) developed later on. So there is a chance that a 3 or 4 tool player could develop into a 5 tool player. It doesn't happen very often, though.
