vlad is a 5 tool player
While PG is a fine organization who run many showcases and tournaments, it cannot take credit for the talent of the participants.
Because a player participates in a PG tournament or showcase, there is no coorelation to the instruction and talent development that player has had the benefit of recieving.
Five tool players in my view should be gauged at their various stages of physical maturity. I have always preferred that a player stay within his age group until they far surpass that talent level.
To constantly have a child 'play up' puts them on a larger stage where they may appear mediocre rather than stellar.
Scouts at showcases keep physical maturity in mind when making their determinations.
The 'x factor' trumps the scientific profile almost every time. The guy who does not fit the profile of a great prospect is most often that player who performs better and wins more championships than the great player on paper. Showcases do not have the time to gauge this factor.
The showcase and the showcase tournament are doing much for exposure of players. Thank you PG for the service you provide.
Because a player participates in a PG tournament or showcase, there is no coorelation to the instruction and talent development that player has had the benefit of recieving.
Five tool players in my view should be gauged at their various stages of physical maturity. I have always preferred that a player stay within his age group until they far surpass that talent level.
To constantly have a child 'play up' puts them on a larger stage where they may appear mediocre rather than stellar.
Scouts at showcases keep physical maturity in mind when making their determinations.
The 'x factor' trumps the scientific profile almost every time. The guy who does not fit the profile of a great prospect is most often that player who performs better and wins more championships than the great player on paper. Showcases do not have the time to gauge this factor.
The showcase and the showcase tournament are doing much for exposure of players. Thank you PG for the service you provide.
quote:While PG is a fine organization who run many showcases and tournaments, it cannot take credit for the talent of the participants.
Because a player participates in a PG tournament or showcase, there is no coorelation to the instruction and talent development that player has had the benefit of recieving.
WillieBobo,
You are abolutely correct. We can only say these highest level prospects attended the events. We can not say we had anything to do with why they are so talented. In fact, I try to explain that each time we are asked about it.
There's probably some parents on this board who have called with thanks for everything we have done for their son. I always tell them it's their son, not us, who is responsible for any success. That is obviously the truth! All we do is hold the events. Player has talent... Good things happen!
That's all any showcase can really do!
Thanks for the compliment.
PG is very quick to deflect credit and express that Perfect Game hosts the showcase and the talent comes to the event. Willie's position is that the talent is developed before it steps on a PG field. There's so much more to it.
I can speak only from our family's experience. My son went to a World Wood Bat tournament as a 15 year old playing in the 16 year old division. He'd never been to a showcase and this was something like a 60 team tournament in Marietta. He was challenged for the first time at the national level, playing against kids from Florida, Texas and California. It was a benchmark in his development because he was able to see where he measured against the best out there. Couldn't have happened without Perfect Game holding the national event. It was a part of his development that assisted him as he continued to play.
Showcases are now a big part of the learning process for players and kids are getting on the scene at younger ages. You can have your strengths and weaknesses defined for you early and have a better awareness of the things you need to improve to advance in baseball. I call that helping to develop a player.
I can speak only from our family's experience. My son went to a World Wood Bat tournament as a 15 year old playing in the 16 year old division. He'd never been to a showcase and this was something like a 60 team tournament in Marietta. He was challenged for the first time at the national level, playing against kids from Florida, Texas and California. It was a benchmark in his development because he was able to see where he measured against the best out there. Couldn't have happened without Perfect Game holding the national event. It was a part of his development that assisted him as he continued to play.
Showcases are now a big part of the learning process for players and kids are getting on the scene at younger ages. You can have your strengths and weaknesses defined for you early and have a better awareness of the things you need to improve to advance in baseball. I call that helping to develop a player.
PG provides wonderful venues to test or show your abilities.
As a parent, you should be aware of the benchmarks in the five tools as in the article and as a part of your training expand on the talents that your son has.
When you return home, you can either seek drills or instructors in the areas that you seek to improve.
There is no beter test of one's ability than getting on stage and performing. PG provides a wonderful stage.
As a parent, you should be aware of the benchmarks in the five tools as in the article and as a part of your training expand on the talents that your son has.
When you return home, you can either seek drills or instructors in the areas that you seek to improve.
There is no beter test of one's ability than getting on stage and performing. PG provides a wonderful stage.
I think we have had this discussion a number times on this site and I think PG will totally agree-- we, as a showcase venue, give the player the stage to perform on--whatever success he attains he gets from his talent--we only give the player the stage to perform on and then it is up to him to make it ot break it.
But you see without that venue an important part of today's baseball developmental process would be missed.
baseballdad
not disagreeing and very well said--PG and ourselves are part of the process-- to what degree ? It all depends on the player
not disagreeing and very well said--PG and ourselves are part of the process-- to what degree ? It all depends on the player
TR on your end, I know of two players who participated in your Rhode Island tournament who were seen by the new Rowan coach there - in a competitive, not showcase - environment. These two now will continue their careers next year in the NJAC. You are correct that everything is up to the player, but without these opportuities to be seen in game situations, doors would not be opening for many. It steps beyond the defininition of showcase and falls directly into development player and advancement.
Baseballdad
And thankfully more and more players and coaches are understanding the process. There is no magic involved--just hard work and putting yourself as a player in the right situations
Just got off the phone with a coach out of the Milwaukee, WI area and he is bringing 16 players to our Binghamnton Showcase and they will go as team from there to Warwick, RI to play in the tournament. In between they will spend a day at Cooperstown--- great week of baseball and exposure for those players
And thankfully more and more players and coaches are understanding the process. There is no magic involved--just hard work and putting yourself as a player in the right situations
Just got off the phone with a coach out of the Milwaukee, WI area and he is bringing 16 players to our Binghamnton Showcase and they will go as team from there to Warwick, RI to play in the tournament. In between they will spend a day at Cooperstown--- great week of baseball and exposure for those players
Although no showcase organization can take credit for a player's raw, natural, God-given talent, showcases can clearly help to facilitate the development of that talent. The showcase and tournament opportunities my oldest son enjoyed not only provided another "playing field" for him to demonstrate his abilities to the right crowd of baseball decision-makers, they also offered two additional very key benefits...feedback and top competition. Undoubtedly, the exposure these opportunities provided was critical, and my son would simply not be where he is today without that exposure.
But, it was the feedback from the baseball evaluators, and the opportunity to compete against many of the nation's top players, that helped to spark Chris' development especially during the first couple years of high school. This feedback and high level of competition played an instrumental role in helping to fuel Chris' passion to take his game as far as he could. And it was the occasional setbacks that he experienced at these events which brought greater focus to the areas of his game that needed the most improvement. It was this direction and guidance that helped to shape amd cultivate his development.
We relied on Perfect Game's evaluations of Chris numerous times, and Jerry Ford (and others) offered us his insights on dozens of occasions. This input served, to a large degree, as the foundation for an overall training program which evolved for Chris over time. Playing with and against the likes of Delmon Young, Chad Billingsly, Lastings Milledge, Ryan Harvey, Jeff Allison, Ryan Sweeney, Andrew Miller, and many other tremendous talents certainly helped to challenge Chris' abilities. Just excelling on the field in our corner of the world would have significantly limited Chris' opportunities, plus hindered his development as well. Being content with being a "big fish in a small pond" would not have put Chris' tools and skills to the test.
And waiting too long before dipping into the showcase waters could have been detrimental. If Chris had waited to the summer after his Junior year to experience his first showcase or two, precious time would have been lost, time that he/we used to listen generously to the feedback we received, and provide Chris...a Northeast kid...with the chance to compete against the best talent that the South, West, and Midwest had to offer. Younger players (Freshmen/Sophomores) should take advantage of showcase opportunites earlier in the process when practical...the experience of participating with older players can be invaluable! Plus, by competing sooner rather than later, younger players can learn the ropes of showcasing, iron out a few of the wrinkles, and thus be much better prepared down the road. My 15 year old Freshman has already attended several showcase events, not necessarily for the exposure, but for the experience that participation provides a young talent...and his development will be promoted by the many things he learns, good and not-so-good, through these early opportunities.
A broader perspective clearly reveals that competing at showcase and tournament events can contribute to a player's development. And, thankfully, opportunities abound today for every player and his family. Educating yourself about the process (this website being THE SOURCE for much of that education), learning from others, and becoming involved with credible folks within the baseball community can be a great start for future success. Here in our region, Perfect Game is solidifying its presence through Perfect Game Northeast which will benefit high school players even more. In addition, College Select, SelectFest, the Top 100 Mid-Atlantic Showcase (thru All-Star Baseball Academy), and others provide even more chances for players to showcase, learn, and improve. Of course, on a nationl scale, Perfect Game has no equal (IMHO), and its latest innovation, BaseballWebTV, will help lead the recruiting process to a new and exciting era.
Finally, getting back to TR's original question (sorry I took so long Tom!), expectations of a showcase will always vary of course (nearly everyone has their own wish list or suggestion box of what works, what is best, etc.) but we should all remember the very basic objective of a showcase...bringing quality players together with recruiters and scouts within a format that is conducive to the player showing his talent, and the recruiter/scout evaluating that talent. As indicated by others in previous posts, the showcase is, in simplest terms, the stage...the stage on which players perform and decision-makers evaluate. As more and more talented players attend a particular showcase, more and more recruiters and scouts want to attend too...when more decision-makers attend a specific showcase, more of the better talent want to be there in order "to be seen". Be seen, compete, and welcome the feedback.
One last thought...this process is about maximizing opportunities, no promises, no guarantees. Maximizing opportunities=more choices, more possibilities, more leverage.
Wally Lubanski
Collegeville, PA
But, it was the feedback from the baseball evaluators, and the opportunity to compete against many of the nation's top players, that helped to spark Chris' development especially during the first couple years of high school. This feedback and high level of competition played an instrumental role in helping to fuel Chris' passion to take his game as far as he could. And it was the occasional setbacks that he experienced at these events which brought greater focus to the areas of his game that needed the most improvement. It was this direction and guidance that helped to shape amd cultivate his development.
We relied on Perfect Game's evaluations of Chris numerous times, and Jerry Ford (and others) offered us his insights on dozens of occasions. This input served, to a large degree, as the foundation for an overall training program which evolved for Chris over time. Playing with and against the likes of Delmon Young, Chad Billingsly, Lastings Milledge, Ryan Harvey, Jeff Allison, Ryan Sweeney, Andrew Miller, and many other tremendous talents certainly helped to challenge Chris' abilities. Just excelling on the field in our corner of the world would have significantly limited Chris' opportunities, plus hindered his development as well. Being content with being a "big fish in a small pond" would not have put Chris' tools and skills to the test.
And waiting too long before dipping into the showcase waters could have been detrimental. If Chris had waited to the summer after his Junior year to experience his first showcase or two, precious time would have been lost, time that he/we used to listen generously to the feedback we received, and provide Chris...a Northeast kid...with the chance to compete against the best talent that the South, West, and Midwest had to offer. Younger players (Freshmen/Sophomores) should take advantage of showcase opportunites earlier in the process when practical...the experience of participating with older players can be invaluable! Plus, by competing sooner rather than later, younger players can learn the ropes of showcasing, iron out a few of the wrinkles, and thus be much better prepared down the road. My 15 year old Freshman has already attended several showcase events, not necessarily for the exposure, but for the experience that participation provides a young talent...and his development will be promoted by the many things he learns, good and not-so-good, through these early opportunities.
A broader perspective clearly reveals that competing at showcase and tournament events can contribute to a player's development. And, thankfully, opportunities abound today for every player and his family. Educating yourself about the process (this website being THE SOURCE for much of that education), learning from others, and becoming involved with credible folks within the baseball community can be a great start for future success. Here in our region, Perfect Game is solidifying its presence through Perfect Game Northeast which will benefit high school players even more. In addition, College Select, SelectFest, the Top 100 Mid-Atlantic Showcase (thru All-Star Baseball Academy), and others provide even more chances for players to showcase, learn, and improve. Of course, on a nationl scale, Perfect Game has no equal (IMHO), and its latest innovation, BaseballWebTV, will help lead the recruiting process to a new and exciting era.
Finally, getting back to TR's original question (sorry I took so long Tom!), expectations of a showcase will always vary of course (nearly everyone has their own wish list or suggestion box of what works, what is best, etc.) but we should all remember the very basic objective of a showcase...bringing quality players together with recruiters and scouts within a format that is conducive to the player showing his talent, and the recruiter/scout evaluating that talent. As indicated by others in previous posts, the showcase is, in simplest terms, the stage...the stage on which players perform and decision-makers evaluate. As more and more talented players attend a particular showcase, more and more recruiters and scouts want to attend too...when more decision-makers attend a specific showcase, more of the better talent want to be there in order "to be seen". Be seen, compete, and welcome the feedback.
One last thought...this process is about maximizing opportunities, no promises, no guarantees. Maximizing opportunities=more choices, more possibilities, more leverage.
Wally Lubanski
Collegeville, PA
quote:Originally posted by WallyL:
One last thought...this process is about maximizing opportunities, no promises, no guarantees. Maximizing opportunities=more choices, more possibilities, more leverage.
Wally Lubanski
Collegeville, PA
With all your thoughts...and there were many
I thought your last line deserved kudos.....
5 tool players not yet mentioned: Roberto Clemente & Young Mickey Mantle
4 tool player: Babe Ruth
at best a 3 tool player and probably a 2 tool player: Ted Williams
What I want a showcase to do is give all the participants an equal opportunity to demonstrate their particular talent for the game of baseball to the objective observers, scouts, college coaches and others in attendance. How can I expect more than that?
Attempting to follow the apparent flow of the discussion of this question, this oppportunity should not be limited to a demonstration of almost all of the players inabilities to measure up to the ideal "five tools player", who I would argue is rare indeed.
The showcases, tryouts, camps, etc. my son [a position player] has attended have done an excellent job of providing all like participants an equal opportunity to demonstrate their speed in the 60, their ability to field a ground ball and throw it to a base with accuracy and at a measurable speed and their ability to swing a bat at [usually] 10 pitches. If the player did the best he could in each of these situations then that is all he can do. How well they succeeded and how someone else evaluates that level of success or lack thereof in light of each of the 5 tools is, as this whole thread clearly demonstrates, a very subjective determination.
But I have no quarrel with that and I do not think anyone really should. We can't seem to agree on which MLB players are 5 tool players, let alone whether a particular high school player we would all see for a limited time doing the same things will project into one. I can only hope [but I cannot expect] that some college coach or MLB scout in attendance at a showcase event or viewing a tape or CD taken at the event sees something in my son that he likes enough to, at the appropriate time, contact my son. If there is a school or several schools that my son is interested in attending and playing baseball for, I can contact that coaching staff and see what showcases they will be attending and try to get my son invited to that showcase. There are some showcases that attempt to invite only players with strong academics presumably so that they have the opportunity to demonstrate their baseball talents to an audience that is equally or more interested in their academic ability. But a showcase should be all about and only about providing the equal opportunity.
The players are then placed in a quasi-baseball game situation and given an equal opportunity to play their position. But obviously, by the very randomness of a baseball game, not an equal game opportunity to demonstrate their talents. Does every middle infield combination get an equal chance to be seen turning a double play? Does every third baseman get an equal chance to be seen fielding a slow hit ground ball? Does every first baseman get an equal chance to be seen digging a ball out of the dirt? Of course not. And we cannot expect that randomness to even out in 2 games or even 3 games.
I have, however, one big problem with showcases but I do not have a solution to it. I don't like the fact that there are no walks. Or, at the very least, no apparent penalty for the pitcher who consistently throws balls instead of strikes. I believe this approach favors certain pitchers or, at least, hurts the excellent hitters. I have seen pitchers, after getting two strikes, throw pitch after pitch that is outside the strike zone [maybe just barely out] on a consistent basis and finally either the pitcher makes a mistake [which, in my expereince does not happen that often with "good pitchers"] or, the hitter swings at one of the pitches outside the strike zone in frustration [swing and a miss strikout credited to the pitcher], or, more likely with the really good hitters, the umpire finally calls one of them a strike [caught looking strikeout credited to the pitcher]. If the pitchers who utilize this tactic are being penalized in some way I would certainly like to know about it. But what about the hitters? Are they being evaluated as "patient at the plate" and how does that evaluation play into the fact that what everyone really wants to see is whether he can swing the bat in a such a way to hit line drives with power to or over the wall?
So, to answer TRHits original question, if my son has that talent, i expect him to be given an opportunity to show the ability above described in a game situation where a pitcher has to throw a strike or two, or preferably three before he throws 4 balls. Am I expecting too much?
4 tool player: Babe Ruth
at best a 3 tool player and probably a 2 tool player: Ted Williams
What I want a showcase to do is give all the participants an equal opportunity to demonstrate their particular talent for the game of baseball to the objective observers, scouts, college coaches and others in attendance. How can I expect more than that?
Attempting to follow the apparent flow of the discussion of this question, this oppportunity should not be limited to a demonstration of almost all of the players inabilities to measure up to the ideal "five tools player", who I would argue is rare indeed.
The showcases, tryouts, camps, etc. my son [a position player] has attended have done an excellent job of providing all like participants an equal opportunity to demonstrate their speed in the 60, their ability to field a ground ball and throw it to a base with accuracy and at a measurable speed and their ability to swing a bat at [usually] 10 pitches. If the player did the best he could in each of these situations then that is all he can do. How well they succeeded and how someone else evaluates that level of success or lack thereof in light of each of the 5 tools is, as this whole thread clearly demonstrates, a very subjective determination.
But I have no quarrel with that and I do not think anyone really should. We can't seem to agree on which MLB players are 5 tool players, let alone whether a particular high school player we would all see for a limited time doing the same things will project into one. I can only hope [but I cannot expect] that some college coach or MLB scout in attendance at a showcase event or viewing a tape or CD taken at the event sees something in my son that he likes enough to, at the appropriate time, contact my son. If there is a school or several schools that my son is interested in attending and playing baseball for, I can contact that coaching staff and see what showcases they will be attending and try to get my son invited to that showcase. There are some showcases that attempt to invite only players with strong academics presumably so that they have the opportunity to demonstrate their baseball talents to an audience that is equally or more interested in their academic ability. But a showcase should be all about and only about providing the equal opportunity.
The players are then placed in a quasi-baseball game situation and given an equal opportunity to play their position. But obviously, by the very randomness of a baseball game, not an equal game opportunity to demonstrate their talents. Does every middle infield combination get an equal chance to be seen turning a double play? Does every third baseman get an equal chance to be seen fielding a slow hit ground ball? Does every first baseman get an equal chance to be seen digging a ball out of the dirt? Of course not. And we cannot expect that randomness to even out in 2 games or even 3 games.
I have, however, one big problem with showcases but I do not have a solution to it. I don't like the fact that there are no walks. Or, at the very least, no apparent penalty for the pitcher who consistently throws balls instead of strikes. I believe this approach favors certain pitchers or, at least, hurts the excellent hitters. I have seen pitchers, after getting two strikes, throw pitch after pitch that is outside the strike zone [maybe just barely out] on a consistent basis and finally either the pitcher makes a mistake [which, in my expereince does not happen that often with "good pitchers"] or, the hitter swings at one of the pitches outside the strike zone in frustration [swing and a miss strikout credited to the pitcher], or, more likely with the really good hitters, the umpire finally calls one of them a strike [caught looking strikeout credited to the pitcher]. If the pitchers who utilize this tactic are being penalized in some way I would certainly like to know about it. But what about the hitters? Are they being evaluated as "patient at the plate" and how does that evaluation play into the fact that what everyone really wants to see is whether he can swing the bat in a such a way to hit line drives with power to or over the wall?
So, to answer TRHits original question, if my son has that talent, i expect him to be given an opportunity to show the ability above described in a game situation where a pitcher has to throw a strike or two, or preferably three before he throws 4 balls. Am I expecting too much?
TW
Your closing paragraph is why we include three games in our showcase format. Our pitchers throw anywhere from 2 to 4 innings in the event, all in game situations
Your closing paragraph is why we include three games in our showcase format. Our pitchers throw anywhere from 2 to 4 innings in the event, all in game situations
TWW&TR,
I also agree with your last statement.
The only thing a showcase really can do, is give the player a venue to showcase there talent. And have that talent evaluated
By baseball insiders with the knowledge to know what there looking at.
The Players and Parents need to Know that up front, which most do. a showcase is not going to make are break a prospects chances of going to the next level, be it College are Pro ball. It just can Help That's All
Its all subjective. Any Showcase's staff do not know all the Tangleble's of that player and what he may be capable of in just 2 days of Showcaseing. But they get a pretty good idea, and are usaully real close to being on the Money.
They do get a better idea of a player after seeing them over a few year's of high profile Tournaments, and other showcase events.
And grades might rise, because that player worked on what needed to be improved.
Are players grew to a become a projectable body type with skills to match, AKA "Late Bloomers".
I think that it is hard for those type players to crack into Top Prospects lists because who are they going to replace on the List.
Players that project early as a 15 yr old have an advantage
and that's just the way it is.
Players/Parents need to take Advantage of every oppurtuinity that presents itself, Are at least the higher profile one's if you believe that player could and has the Talent to play at the next level.
I can only go by my Son's Experience at the Showcases, and Tournaments.
And there are things I agree with and things I don't. Because I've seen what a player is Capable of in High profile Venue's over years of attending these events.
But what I think doesn't mean squat in the evaluating process, and I think that's whats frustrate's Parent's the Most.
As a parent You don't Have any say and that's the way it Should and HAS TO BE.
Cut your Child loose and let them Succeed.
It's hard, we want to protect. We want everything to be the Perfect Game situation and everything goes just great.
That would be a perfect World. It just doesn't always work that way.
That's why I think that the Showcase People do a great Job in looking past a few mistakes are booted balls are Strike Outs.
To evauluate in a subjective mannor.
Keep up the Good Work, Find ways to make things as equal as possible. Thats all you can Do. The EH
I also agree with your last statement.
The only thing a showcase really can do, is give the player a venue to showcase there talent. And have that talent evaluated
By baseball insiders with the knowledge to know what there looking at.
The Players and Parents need to Know that up front, which most do. a showcase is not going to make are break a prospects chances of going to the next level, be it College are Pro ball. It just can Help That's All
Its all subjective. Any Showcase's staff do not know all the Tangleble's of that player and what he may be capable of in just 2 days of Showcaseing. But they get a pretty good idea, and are usaully real close to being on the Money.
They do get a better idea of a player after seeing them over a few year's of high profile Tournaments, and other showcase events.
And grades might rise, because that player worked on what needed to be improved.
Are players grew to a become a projectable body type with skills to match, AKA "Late Bloomers".
I think that it is hard for those type players to crack into Top Prospects lists because who are they going to replace on the List.
Players that project early as a 15 yr old have an advantage
and that's just the way it is.
Players/Parents need to take Advantage of every oppurtuinity that presents itself, Are at least the higher profile one's if you believe that player could and has the Talent to play at the next level.
I can only go by my Son's Experience at the Showcases, and Tournaments.
And there are things I agree with and things I don't. Because I've seen what a player is Capable of in High profile Venue's over years of attending these events.
But what I think doesn't mean squat in the evaluating process, and I think that's whats frustrate's Parent's the Most.
As a parent You don't Have any say and that's the way it Should and HAS TO BE.
Cut your Child loose and let them Succeed.
It's hard, we want to protect. We want everything to be the Perfect Game situation and everything goes just great.
That would be a perfect World. It just doesn't always work that way.
That's why I think that the Showcase People do a great Job in looking past a few mistakes are booted balls are Strike Outs.
To evauluate in a subjective mannor.
Keep up the Good Work, Find ways to make things as equal as possible. Thats all you can Do. The EH
