What do you guys think of this...

95% chance his success is not in baseball.

5% chance it is baseball and will play in the bigs five years after surviving the minors five.

 

100,000 salary (non-baseball) * .95 * 10 years = $950,000

1,000,000 (baseball) *.05 * 5 = $250,000

 

No matter how it stacks up go to the great school.  If he's talented they will know about him. 

As usual, Bum is right.  Could not agree more.

My son and I fought about this before he committed.  Lucky another offer came through that fit both criteria.  I'm 50 and made every argument I could make to get him to consider better school, and he would have probably gone, but he would have resented it at first.  Good luck. 

Bum I hear you loud and clear and that is the exact reason this school is still on our short list. Other Opportunities in ACC and Big 10 are what we are really comparing this school to. In our opinion this school fits him the absolute best from every other aspect except the Baseball side of things.

Alee it the opposite with us, the wife and him love this place and are ready to jump on board. I am the one with the Baseball issue. I just do not want him to have any regrets or think about what could of been.Plus he always loves the last place we visited so I want to make a few more visits to make sure if you know what I mean...

Sounds like a great deal.  Its not who plays with you that matters.  Its who you play against! At (Villanova?) he has a better chance to play right away and play against some good competition with St Johns and CT still in the conference (...I think). Villanova is a great school but the baseball logistics are a real problem there not necessarily the talent.  That would be the only sticking point in our house.  

 

For instance, Hofstra has a terrible team but Verbitsky was taken in the third round(Padres), while Reistetter and Poma both signed Minor league deals after starting for three years and losing LOTS of games.  They would have all been better off getting a degree and a job but thats their issue.  To the OP's question the opportunities are there regardless of the teams quality.  Pick the best school and the best deal and the best opportunity to play.  A no brainer!

I hate it when you all use facts to make a decision.

My son played at a PAC 12 school and never made a regional. PAC 12 is a very good conference and it was a great experience.

 

Where your son is comfortable in all aspects as possible is what matters.

 

If its a top notch education, he likes it, coaches like him ?

 

Honestly very few get it all.

 

Don't know his talent level, but even on losing teams there is talent.

Is he a 2014? If so, the early signing period doesn't allow much time to explore the other opportunities you say he will have. How much time does he have to reply to the offer from the school with the stunning campus?

 

Hard to say he should take this offer or keep looking without knowing more about the alternatives.....academically and athletically

GreenL he is a 2015 so he has time.

Use the time! Has the current school thrown out a tight time limit that might get in the way?

They talked about really nice Baseball numbers but also wanted us to send in our Financials along with an essay and SAT/ACT scores to try and get some additional funds from Alum/School. They only have 6 of the 11.7 scholarships, the Aumi/School gives them another 6 but has significant say on who gets this money. Because of this our deadline to answer has conveniently been extended until all this is worked out. We were told that typically he does not leave the window to answer open very long.

 

Use every second you have to explore alternatives, I would say.

 

I am 100% on board with the academics-first faction.

 

At the same time, I think there are maybe 10 or 15, surely no more than 20 schools where in the vast majority of cases the degree is a ticket/credential to success that other schools cannot match.

 

At the other end of the spectrum there are a whole bunch of schools that do not provide much if any value-added in today's economy.

 

Between these two extremes there is a vast middle ground where the difference in educational or credential value is hard to quantify. Probably just best to pick a school where the probability of "happiness", whatever that means, is maximized....because if someone is doing what they are enjoying there is a greater chance for success.

 

A Big East school is not an Ivy or Stanford or MIT. That's 10 schools. Maybe it is in the next 5-10 with special educational/credential value, in which case maybe you sacrifice a little baseball perfection for the academics. Or maybe it is part of the vast middle ground where you can hold out more strongly for your ideal baseball situation.

 

You are fortunate to have time to figure this all out

Very well put, Green Light! I am a card carrying member of Academics First Club.  But, two facts I did not know at time of prior post: he is 2015 (not 2014) and there may be ACC interest.  Depends on the school, but combo of ACC baseball/academics/weather would beat most/all Big East schools, IMO.  Weather matters in overall school experience, baseball player or not.  I know from experience (NE, cold/rain, field still frozen upon return from Spring Trip, etc).  I still tell the story of my coach telling me not to throw breaking balls because it was literally snowing during a game (not a practice or scrimmage) in March.

Who is doing the thinking, you or him?

Have ACC or Big 10 programs recruited or offered your son an opportunity?  As stated just because he will go play for one of those teams doesn't mean a regional, or even a trip to their conference championship.

 

If he has to think about it then it may not be the right fit and he has time, is he ready to commit for the right reasons?

 

We all know that chances are that most will not play bb after college, but if the game is important to him then HE needs to figure it out.

Green Light,

 

That actually made a lot of sense to me.  And I'm not even very smart.

Tip o' the cap, PG and BucsFan. One of the most important things I've learned in this thread is that if your kid can't hit Uncle Charlie, send him to a school in  NE where BucsFan played!

 

Green thanks a bunch!

 

If he is just 17 and you feel too young to do his own thinking, then maybe he needs sometime (which seems to be on his side).

Your son was offered a scholarship at the ACC/Big Ten but he prefers the Big east school, so there is something there that he likes very much and maybe it's not all about baseball.

 

Everyone has different reasons for the right fit, this is what he needs to figure out. Degree, geography, bb program, other factors such as campus life, scholarship dollars, etc all should play a factor in the process.

 

Go back to read my last sentence, if the game is important then he needs to figure out what is important in a fit, maybe the things that others think are important (facilities,  making a regional, school committed to baseball) are not to him.

 

FWIW, there are some ACC schools that are not as committed to their baseball programs as some other conference programs.  Don't let it be all about the conference.  Playing for a school in and being at the bottom of the ladder isn't always all that fun either.  However, I know of some who chose those programs due to education and other factors.

 

Your son's college experience should be a combination of many factors, and if he gets an opportunity to play beyond college, that's just the icing on the cake.

Which school has the hotter chicks?  Good luck. 

A Big East school is not an Ivy or Stanford or MIT.

Hard to argue that Georgetown isn't more or less in that club.

LeftyDad22 - I'm just gonna tell you how we felt about this.

 

#1 on list?  Academics.  Was the school gonna be near the top of what our sons could achieve?  Was baseball gonna help them get a tier higher on the academic scale than they might have without baseball?

 

#2 on list?  Overall fit.  Was it a school that felt "right" to them.  After #1 was satisfied, both sons had an opportunity to go to schools that were high on academics and baseball, but low on "fit."

 

#3 on list?  Baseball.

 

This comment by you screams out at me:

Just about everything about the school is loved by my son.

I think your son may(?) be telling you everything you need to listen to carefully.

 

There was a school my wife and I wanted one of our sons to attend...very badly.  Our son woulda done it...he said so.  But we both could feel what you said above by our son.  So we let him choose the one he wanted (academics was a tie, "fit" was not).  It could not have worked out better.  Loves the school 100% and is thriving in the classroom and socially.

 

Glad we listened.  No matter the end result, make sure you at the very least...listen.  

 

 

All great stuff JustB, thanks

LeftyDad22,

 

My two cents....You have a golden opportunity to sit down with your son to figure out what he wants to get out of life, and paths to get there.   I think you've received golden advice from all in this thread.  For me, it comes down to your son and you/wife determining what is most important among academics, athletics and financial (investment and payback).   Don't get me wrong, they are all important but one will be the most important.  I think if the three of you can agree on what is most important, then the rest of this process gets a lot easier to accept shortcomings.  I'm on my third kid with this process, and each kid has different needs & wants.   Does he want to get drafted?  Does he want the most challenging or best education possible?  Is a baseball scholarship the most important thing to help with finances? 

 

Based upon what you shared, I think I would continue to look with my son.  If he has been offered in the Fall of Junior Year, I'm willing to bet there will be others interested if he keeps playing offense and reaching out to programs.   There may be schools that can offer more relative to the exiting offere on the academic side, and others that can offer a better baseball experience.  As Green Light pointed out there is a Bell Curve with academic schools.  Most academic schools have NOT sought verbal commitments with 2015s yet.   There is that same Bell Curve with baseball talent at ACC/SEC/PAC12/Etc schools, and my sense of it is that most have sought verbal commitments.   So, figuring out where your son fits into the the marketplace becomes very important.

 

Good luck!

 

This is one of the best pieces of advice I have heard for dealing with this process.

My family is a baseball family, and this is a baseball website, so my take is different than most post here... let me digress...

 

No one values education more than I do.  I am an engineer and a lawyer so I've spent a good part of my life going to college and have an understanding/appreciation for what education can mean to success in life.  I did not go to a top school.  I worked my way through school while raising three kids and working full time.  I completely understand that rubbing elbows with other kids at a top school can provide opportunities that kids that go to Cleveland State (like I did) may not have.  That said, if your underlying major has value and you apply yourself, there is nothing holding you back from going to the top. 

 

I concede that the kid going to the top school will likely start out making more money and have more initial opportunities (no guarantee) but there is a shortage of talent out there.  Our corporations are going to places like India and China to fill the void.  If you apply yourself with a demanding major at a decent school, there will be ample opportunities for you.

 

Now that my education ramblings and perspective are done...

 

You can never go back and undo a bad baseball decision.  Baseball is played by young people and those opportunities generally expire after four years of college.  Education on the other hand can be tackled on a number of fronts.  Selecting a demanding major and applying yourself while in school account for most success.  If getting a name degree is important, you can always go to graduate school at a name school if deemed important.  There is no graduate school for baseball unless you should be lucky enough to be drafted.  Those odds diminish greatly if you are with a mediocre baseball program.  A - your development will not be as good and B - your exposure to the pro scouts will be minimized.  If professional baseball is not an aspiration, you could spend four precious years hating the athletic experience.

 

I've never understood why people would come to this site if elite education was the controlling factor.  If your choices are between Stanford and Cal State Fullerton (two national baseball powerhouses) then I fully get the argument for picking Stanford and of course would advise my son accordingly assuming the Stanford coach was more enthused about my son than the Cal State Fullerton coach.  

My 2015 and I are going through this same situation.  Getting lots of love from the Academics (with no money per se), getting a decent amount of interest (and one offer) from lesser members of some Premier Conferences (Big 10, PAC 12) and a bunch of interest from all those in between.  

 

Fenway is spot on as usual:, 2015 and I haven't really verbalized exactly what our (especially his) priorities are.  Unlike a lot of kids, he's probably not as opinionated as he should be:  He tends to like most everyplace we visit!  "I could see my self here" ... about a dozen different times!

 

As far as a timeline goes, based on everything I've read here, I'd be inclined to wait and keep visiting schools.   In our scenario, 2015 will need top notch test scores for the Academics and he won't take those until February.  We'll continue to visit schools, but primarily those that fit our priorities best. 

Don't discount the ability to watch him play, with the campus just an hour away. Your son will enjoy the dinners out after the games as well!

Cleveland, I think this is a great site for baseball information and general information about the Ivies and other academically selective schools. I think people for whom elite education is a primary factor come to this site because of the interesting and hopefully useful discussions that are generated. The internet, after all, is a pretty democratic place.

 

Are you saying you would like posters such as Fenway and me and Aleebaba (for a period of time) to take that talk elsewhere? Or just that you don't understand why we post?

Georgetown would be the next tier of schools. USNews has Georgetown at #20. Not all Ivies are considered top ten. Chicago, Vanderbilt, Duke, Hopkins and Cal Tech are rated above some of them.

Ranking the top schools is an imperfect science...in fact I think it is as much art as science. I think it is a combination of reputation, alumni network, endowment, academic profile of students. Not all of these things can be objectively quantified.

 

The US News rankings are fun, and schools sure are happy when they get highly ranked. But for a back-of-the-envelope ranking system, I like to refer to the following website, which lists SAT and ACT scores for the 25-75 percentile of each school's enrolled students. Again, this is not definitive...and it says nothing about reputation and alumni network. But at least it is an objective, apples-to-apples comparison

 

http://collegeapps.about.com/o.../sat_side_x_side.htm

 

My wife and I had “The Conversation” with our 2015.  We are and have visited a variety of schools he would like to attend.  As of current he does not have any official offers but has interest from many schools including top academics and Ivys.  His thought is to look long term and go with the academic school.  Any hope of playing after college will depend on too many variables and he feels if he is good enough he will get an opportunity.

After the academics, for my 2015 playing time is the #1 priority.  He does not want to sit for 2-3 years before he gets an opportunity.  The feedback he is getting from the schools is that he can compete sooner than later at the academics and smaller conferences. Playing time is never guaranteed at any school but knowing you are getting a top tier education waiting your turn is a lot better than the alternative.  A friend’s son went to an SEC school as the #1 ranked player in his state at his position. He committed early, signed and the whole nine yards only to find out at the last minute the #1 ranked player in the country at his position will be attending as well.

The prior posted have examples of the small chance of making it to the CWS and the small chance of playing beyond college. No one can ever take the education away but baseball can be taken away though.   My wife and I have discussed the expense and lack of opportunity to see our 2015 play but it is about us guiding him to “his” decision. He is choosing the best academic school where he can play the soonest.

 

 

CD,

 

You and I have been on this site a long time together.  I understand your post (above) and perspective about baseball as a priority however I'm extremely surprised with your comment.  I think of myself as a pretty open minded person.  People come from all walks of baseball life and put a varying priority on things.   For many people on this site, they will choose athletics as the priority, closely followed by academics and financial considerations. I get that, and see it every day.  Baseball is something that you and your family decided a long time ago as a priority, and your son has done amazingly well with that decision.  When professional games are being played, I often check on him and others in the minors hoping for that day when he gets called up.  It is one of the reasons I continue to come back here.  I get a chance to live through the experiences of others

 

What I'm sensing is a hesitancy to understand others (using this site) for their desire to put academics ahead of baseball and financial consideration  Do you feel we are watering down the baseball discussion? Folks come here for baseball advice from all walks of life.  Kids and parents with a passion for the game, but may be lacking in ability with the top players.   Help me understand why that is difficult to understand?  Honestly, you've really surprised me.

I am not saying either.  If your main criteria is the academics, what difference does baseball have to do with it?  You find the best academic schools your son is qualified for, you see if the coach at of any of them would want him, and you select the best one of the lot.  If none of the academic schools deem your son a fit, then he can enjoy the ride as a student.

 

Where I think the hsbbweb makes a difference is for those kids who really care about baseball.  They might find that a school like Johns Hopkins, a D3 school, offers the best of both worlds rather than trading off one for the other.  I guess I don't see why people are comfortable trading off the baseball with the perceived notion they are picking the ultimate academic school.  In the original post in this thread, it sounds like a sub-standard baseball opportunity and most don't seem to have a problem with that.  There are hundreds of fine schools out there and to imply only one (or a few) meet the academic needs makes no sense to me if baseball also really means something to the kid.  

This has really turned into a very good thread chock full of reference, advice, past experience, thoughts and suggestions, thank you all so much!

CD - Provocative posts.  I like it! 

 

I cannot disagree with what you've written...after all, I attended the 'evil' state school to your South. 

 

I think we looked at this 2 ways (not meaning any other way is wrong).

 

1. We weren't going to send our sons to any school just to play baseball.  Thats not a judgement on any school, but there were certainly some schools that if they were the only choice...then baseball was going to be over for them.  There's a whole lot that went into that comment...academics was definitely a part of it.

 

(BTW, we just sent our daughter to a BIG state school without a giant academic reputation in the Southwest that we believe was a good "fit" for her in many ways, including academics for her desired and challenging major...same as yours and mine ).

 

2. We were going to let baseball 'assist' our sons in getting to a slightly better school than they might have on their own.  Actually, we could debate whether or not thats a good idea as it can be a challenge to compete with others with more time to study and higher academic credentials entering.  But its what we did and I don't regret it.

 

Having said all of that, your view is certainly every bit as good as mine.  There is no debating that.  But I do believe that this site serves the whole spectrum...those searching for the best of one thing first and the other second...and vice versa.

 

 

When my son was I were dealing with these kinds of questions, I was very pleased that he clearly understood that he wasn't invulnerable and that his baseball "career" could be over tomorrow due to some injury.  While baseball was extremely important to him, he felt needed to have a backup plan.  So choosing a college that could provide him with the best future after baseball was a somewhat higher priority than the baseball program.  He was fortunate to have a lot of choices and chose a school that has an outstanding academic program as well as outstanding alum relationships.  But the school's baseball program was currently struggling, though in an outstanding conference where he felt he would still have good competition and good exposure to MLB scouts.

 

As it turned out, he just loved his school just as he had hoped and though the baseball program continued to struggle while he was there, he feels he learned a lot and that he made the right decision.  If I had made him follow my personal preference for him, he would have gone to the CWS, still would have gotten a good education and would probably still have been drafted.  But. . . . I don't think he would have loved the school of my choice near as much as the one he chose.

 

Just how much priority to set on academics vs. baseball or which school is the better choice has to be base on the individual situation. IMHO For example, if the family is well-to-do and there's no real concern for future earning power, one might find it easy to just focus on baseball.   On the other side of that coin, for a family that's doesn't have those kinds of resources or some college legacy, one might want to choose to emphasis the academic potential for future career success and earnings.  There's a lot of factors and emotions in play and one just has to try to make the best or best optimal choice out of the available choices.