What do you say to the 2nd baseman

I think you say - "Great season - and get ready for the next game."

Thats about it. IMO.

It wasn't that bad of throw.
1st Baseman should of been at rt field side of bag.
It hit his Glove.
That's Baseball.
A Game Of Inches??

EH,

Dead on IMO.

Great game and great series either way - All the young men should be proud of the show they put on.

Nobody should have to Hang there head's.
Not if you've played your Heart out.
It's Just the way the Ball Bounces.

I gasped when the played happened that allowed the go ahead run to score. Hate to see a game decided that way, but have to agree with theEH. The 1st baseman (a catcher) was a bit late to the bag and had his foot in the middle of the bag possibly not allowing him to react to the throw. As a parent you hug your son and tell him you LOVE him and that is all he needs to know for now.

If I could, I'd give the error to the first baseman. He had his right foot on the middle of the bag and his left foot was on the home plate side of the base.

He had two options, first of all, FACE THE FIELDER and stretch out to him.

Second, and better, move your feet so left foot is on the bag and stretch down the line with right foot.

It wasn't that bad of a throw.

Regardless, you can't have 4 errors in a game and expect to win.

I thought the 1B shouldhave left the bag to snare the throw. However the throw was wide, so I'd give the error to the 2nd baseman. Had he left the bag to get the throw the runner would've been safe, thus the error on the 2nd baseman is still the right call.

Wasn't the 1st baseman right handed? It wouldn't make sense to hold the bag w/his left foot and stretch with his right. You don't get any reach doing that do you? In hindsight, he needed to get to the bag and get his right foot on the corner of the base.

One play in game of 54 outs. I will bet there will be 100's of coaches who will be doing footwork drills with first basemen this Fall.

Great tournament from end to end, hats off to the NCAA for good job. Big time kudos to the guys in Blue.

No game is decided by one play. It is the summation of many pitches, plays, hits, strikeouts, errors, coach's decisions and much, much more.

Sometimes the game appears to boil down to one play...but it just isn't so.

However, I'm sure both the 2B and 1Bmen feel awful. But one thing about great ballplayers (and if you're playing at that level, you are by definition a 'great' baseball player)...great ballplayers have something that I don't have. They bounce back and move on. These two kids will do exactly that. All the best to both of them.

.

Agree with every word JB said....

44

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Really a shame for game to turn on a play like that. Kid shouldn't have to bear the brunt. If they had done a better job early then the play might not have mattered.

It was a catcher playing 1st base and it showed.

Nothing wrong with the throw that a 1st baseman wouldn't catch.

Error to the 1st baseman.

By the way, the home plate ump suc...d...We have the technology. When are they going to implement the technology to show when a ball actually crosses home plate without an umpire guessing. Same thing in pro ball.

Kid gets rung up by bad call after bad call.

I'm with 44 on this one...well said justbaseball.

It was a great CWS.

The UNC Tarheels have a heckuva' team. Their pitchers are almost unreal...Bard looked like he was getting stronger as the game lengthened...his 98 mph pitches looked effortless in the seventh inning!

The OSU Beavers pitchers weren't too shabby either...lots of heart and determination.

I'll tip my cap to the Heels, they battled and seized the momentum a few times tonight from the Beavers, but it wasn't to be tonight for them.

I'm proud of the Beavers, the entire state of Oregon is also...who would have thought an NCAA Div. I baseball champ would ever come out of the rainy Pacific Northwest?

quote:

Originally posted by BeenthereIL:
It was a catcher playing 1st base and it showed.

Nothing wrong with the throw that a 1st baseman wouldn't catch.

Error to the 1st baseman.

I agree wholeheartedly with you.

quote:

Kid gets rung up by bad call after bad call.

Or as in tonight's game...NOT getting rung up when they should have been. I think the ump blew at least two calls apiece on pitches that were called balls when it was very apparent from the television view that they were clearly strikes.

JB - I shared this post with my son - upcoming soph - your reply hit home with him - in my opinion yours is a classic post - every good/great player will come up short at some time or another.

Last I looked at the rule book, you can't make an error sitting in the dugout, the stands or in front of the TV, You alos cant help your team get to the CWS sitting in the dugout (that may not be true), the stands or in front of the TV.

Great post....my heart goes out to all who gave it thier all tonight!

quote:

Originally posted by catcher09:
....what do you say to this young man.

I would remind him Bill Buckner’s career included a very high profile World Series error but he also played MLB for 22 year. Would you give up 22 years of baseball to avoid that one play? A single play never really defines a game any more than it defines the player.

My son often wears a Boston #6 shirt under his uniform to remind himself that he plays his best when he plays for the love of the game.

Not to change the subject, but Bill Buckner's son is a very good prospect who plays SS and can really hit!

What happened to Buckner was a Shame on the Fan's.
Having Played 22 year's, Bill Buckner didn't have a chance to come back and make a Great Hit are Play to make the Fan's forget about a single Errant Play.

Baseball fans can be ugly! We've been told that Bill Buckner actually received death threats from crazy fans for years after that one play.

All he did was get over 2700 hits and play in over 2,500 ML games. Yet he is best remembered for something negative that took place in a split second. Baseball can be cruel!

I agree with so many other comments:

- Your heart really goes out to the 2B & 1B on that play.

- You can't pin the loss on that one play.

- What an amazing effort by Horton in an attempt to steal home. WOW.

- The UNC pitching staff was absolutely incredible.

- The heart and desire of the OSU team was so obvious.

- The calls (or lack of) by the home plate umpire really had me dumbfounded there in the 8th inning.

- I think Coach Fox's trip to the mound was interesting. Why did he go? What did he say? Did Bard talk him out of pulling him?

I'm not sure if anybody else noticed it but I think the camera angle was much more directly in line with the pitcher and home plate compared to an MLB telecast.

Beez:

quote:

Originally posted by Beezer:
I'm not sure if anybody else noticed it but I think the camera angle was much more directly in line with the pitcher and home plate compared to an MLB telecast.

What point are you trying to make Beez? The MLB AV geeks don't know their trigonometry as well as the AV geeks at ESPN?

That camera angle last night from outfield to the plate really showed how effortlessly Bard was throwing there in the seventh inning...97 and 98 mph! Amazing.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Baseball fans can be ugly! We've been told that Bill Buckner actually received death threats from crazy fans for years after that one play.

All he did was get over 2700 hits and play in over 2,500 ML games. Yet he is best remembered for something negative that took place in a split second. Baseball can be cruel!

On the other hand, I see the photo of that play autographed by Bill Buckner and for sale in a number of shops. So its not all bad. Actually shows me he has a little sense of humor about it all.

BTW, my favorite autographed photo of a famous play is by Yogi Berra, trying to tag out Jackie Robinson at home plate on the WS steal. Yogi signs it, "He was out!" Cannot tell from the photo.

quote:

Baseball can be cruel!

Truer words have never been spoken. Don Denkinger - the umpire, may have even gotten it worse than Buckner when he screwed up a call against the Cardinals in the WS.

What do I tell this kid?

Every kid in America wished he could have been in your shoes to make that throw. It took hundreds and hundreds of successful plays to get there as many kids were already sitting at home because they did not execute properly.

Right now, it is very painful. Emotional wounds take time to heal and there is no short-cutting the healing process. In time, the pain will subside and it will be supplanted by the proud knowledge that you were one of the chosen few.

Absolutely the error should have been to the 1st baseman, wrong side of the bag, and very catchable. As for the UMP...that first pitch was belt high and dead center, and from that point on his strike zone change the whole complextion of that game. Another good point by some...WHAT THE HECK was Fox thinking in going out - 2 outs nobody on, pitcher still throwing hardheat, all he managed to do was take the boy out of his zone.

Too bad for NC, but take nothing away from OSU...they played hard and deserved to win just the same.

A very important point.

A right handed first baseman should ALMOST never stretch or even set up with his left foot on the bag. Why give up 12-24" of stretch when it could cost you the out or the catch? It also takes away from coordination.

Every staff everywhere seems to be teaching this when the bunt is on.

It is OK only when the angle is severe and the ball is thrown from very close to home plate.

This bad approach has now spread to second base on force outs...and it is costing teams outs and runs.

If you watch as many games as I do you'll see this mistake over and over again.

I firmly believe this started as a way to avoid injury (collisions at first). It is truly amazing that coaches don't jump to correct this very poor way of receiving the ball.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
Beez:What point are you trying to make Beez? The MLB AV geeks don't know their trigonometry as well as the AV geeks at ESPN?

That camera angle last night from outfield to the plate really showed how effortlessly Bard was throwing there in the seventh inning...97 and 98 mph! Amazing.

My point? I think MLB tries to hide where the pitches actually are to protect the umps maybe?



But in this case, you can clearly see (on most pitches) where the ball crosses the plate. This just gets back to those questionable "ball" calls on Bard. I'm not suggesting the umps blew the game but think it just contributed to his frustration.

I would say to both of those kids: "I love you and will take you on my team any day."

quote:

Originally posted by grateful:
I would say to both of those kids: "I love you and will take you on my team any day."

Now that is the comment I will remember - thank you sir!

Beez:

That makes sense. It seems from the television coverage that the ump was clearly wrong on a number of pitches that should have been called strikes, but weren't. The ump was missing those strikes for both teams late in the game.

How frustrating do you think that must have been for the pitchers and the rest of the team...to not get the call on obvious strikes...at very critical times in a very tight and dramatic game?

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Baseball fans can be ugly! We've been told that Bill Buckner actually received death threats from crazy fans for years after that one play.

All he did was get over 2700 hits and play in over 2,500 ML games. Yet he is best remembered for something negative that took place in a split second. Baseball can be cruel!

Off topic: Buckner owns some commercial real estate in Central Florida with his home address listed in public records. He now lives at the end of a dirt road somewhere in Idaho.

A few observations;

Those two kids feel bad enough.

They did their best.

NC probably would not have been there but for them.

Every player on the field is still an amatuer student athlete.

posted by Grateful:

quote:

I would say to both of those kids: "I love you and will take you on my team any day."

There is nothing else to say.

Baseball can be cruel. My son had a good year. His ERA was the lowest for a starter on the team in 9 years. "Fans" on message boards still picked him apart.

Play for your teammates and coaches. Play for yourself. Fans are fickle.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
How frustrating do you think that must have been for the pitchers and the rest of the team...to not get the call on obvious strikes...at very critical times in a very tight and dramatic game?

It seemed to really rattle & frustrate Bard. And who can blame him? Like you said though, he missed a couple for both (IMO). Who knows, maybe he was just as nervous as the players? But I think overall, the crew was OUTSTANDING.

quote:

Baseball can be cruel. My son had a good year. His ERA was the lowest for a starter on the team in 9 years. "Fans" on message boards still picked him apart.

Play for your teammates and coaches. Play for yourself. Fans are fickle.

Baseball is a tough game. My son made an error in a very BIG game that by itself did not lose the game, however, the inning stayed alive and several more runs scored than would have if not for the error. He did not put any base runners on in the game, he did not give up any homeruns, and he made several outstanding plays after the error. The damage was done however. After the game, he was inconsolable. He was sobbing like I had never seen him before. One "thoughtful" lady walked by and said loud enough for all to hear "If it weren't for that error, we would have won the game" I'll never forget that comment, and I'll never forget what happend next.

There was a man who also had a son on the team and he had fine baseball reputation in our community. He was wearing his National Championship ring from Arizona State that he had won with the likes of Rick Monday, Sal Bando, Reggie Jackson and so forth. He came up and put his hands on my son's shoulders and looked at him with tears in his own eyes. He said "I am telling you the honest truth, we would not have played in that game to begin with if it were not for you." He said some other kind things but I will forever be indebted to the kindness he showed my son that day.

The fact is North Carolina just finished their most successful season ever and were more successful than most D1 programs have ever been. How many schools have never even made it to the regionals, super regionals, CWS, and/or the CWS championship series? Most have never been where NC, Oregon State, or the other CWS participants have been. I congratulate all the kids and the ones who fight till their last out to make it there.

quote:

I'll never forget that comment, and I'll never forget what happend next.

Fans have an annoying habit of expectting perfection in a game based on imperfection. Thankfully your son met one that understands.

quote:

But I think overall, the crew was OUTSTANDING.

They did well...other than badly hosing Bard. They hosed Buck also, though.

Dad04:

quote:

Originally posted by Dad04:
They did well...other than badly hosing Bard. They hosed Buck also, though.

Good observation Dad...I agree fully!

My son made a similar error at 1b last year, last game of season vs major rival. Bad throw from catcher on dropped third, but catchable, would have been last out for the win for us.

One year later, same team (now district champs)last game of the season, but this time they put him in to pitch in the 2nd. No idea why, he hadn't played a whole lot and we had starters who were fresh.

Didn't have his best stuff but through determination beats them for 5 innings. Unfortunately the game got away from our closer in the 7th and we lost.

Anyway, he was very fortunate to get another chance, so my heart goes out for the college seniors who won't have another opportunity.

Teams win and lose together. That second baseman was on the field because his talent at that position gave UNC the best chance to win that day. He made an error, pitchers walked batters, hitters struck out. The UNC team lost the game same as the Oregon State team won the game. The beauty of baseball is that there always is another game and another chance to do your best out there. And teams win and lose because of their collective effort that day - individuals cannot lose games by themselves. Give the kid a Lifesaver (from the old commercial) and tell him to go get the next one. It's history now.

I don't know if this is true or not, but it seems to me that we are so ESPNized. They take a game with hundreds of pitches and plays and lasts two plus hours and boil it down to a 30 to 60 second clip. In truth, I guess the newspapers back in my younger days probably did the same thing.

Baseball is a cruel game at times but you can never make (or blow) the big play unless you make it on the field and to the big game.

The young men at the CWS were awesome and I would love to hear thier stories - especially as they get older and the stories are enhanced a bit

You can't blame the 1st baseman.... converted catcher or not, I agree the throw wasn't bad, but if you guys watched the replay from the back side, the 1B was playing really deep as he should with 2 outs and the go ahead run on second. It was a 2 hopper to the 2B and he never gave the 1B time to get to the base and square up, therefore the poor attempt at the catch. (when the ball was hit 1B sprinted from where he was playing to the base... just as he was setting his feet on the bag and tturning around the ball was already in the air just behind him he had no chance {almost like a wide receiver coming out of a cut and the throw being just behind them it is almost impossible to catch unless the QB waits for him to come out of his pattern}) The batter runner was only a little over 1/2 way to 1st if you watch the replay. Not to rip the 2B but he should have shuffled his feet a little and waited for his 1B to square up to him...he got rid of the ball way to quick ( [B]mental error not a physical one in my book, and he and all young ball players should learn from it.