What do you think happened?

Correction - Team AB down 2-0

PC - hit your spots and let the guys behind you have a chance to make the play.  You don't have to strike out everyone.

HC - Pitcher is struggling, take until you get a strike.  After that, make sure it is in your wheelhouse.  Don't go fishing.

Result - ??  Pitcher settles down, throws a first pitch strike.  Second pitch, batter grounds into double play.

How long do I have to wait in suspense?

PC - God Almighty! Throw a strike! How hard is it? We've talked about this. Stop sucking. I should've cut you. Throw strikes.

HC - This guy on the mound sucks. He's just what you need to break out of your crap-tastic slump the last few games. If you can't get a hit off this guy why do you even get a jersey? Stop sucking.

Result - Who knows? We're dealing with teenagers. Who suck.

Not much context to work with, but I will bite....

What do you think the pitching coach said or stressed to the pitcher?

PC said whatever he needed to relax the pitcher (tell him a joke, ask about his girlfriend, summer plans, whatever), then told him to focus on the glove and work down in the zone.  "One pitch away from getting out of this, let your D work, get us a ground ball."  Assuming the team in the field has done some scouting, maybe he said "This kid has been struggling, don't be afraid to challenge him."

What do you think the HC said or stressed to the hitter coming to bat?

"Take a strike.  He is struggling.  If he gets ahead, then trust your swing and look for something to hit hard."

What do you think was the result?

HBP in the earhole on 1st pitch. Nah....

4-6-3 DP on 0-1 count.

PC - probably didn't say too much, the pitcher already knew he was in a bind.  Most likely gave him the standard pep talk but in reality made a visit to break the tempo of the opposing rally. 

HC - probably told his hitter to settle in, be patient, and wait until the pitcher throws a strike.  Most likely stressed the importance of not running into a double play to his runners. 

End result - I have no idea.  Many possible outcomes but I would love to know. 

Please don't tell me the team AB called sac bunt! Nothing drives me nuts more than that:  plate's on wheels, P can't throw a strike and team AB gives them an out.  Can I change?  I say team AB called for sac bunt, he popped it up and doubled off the kid at 1b.  Sorry if I am hedging my bets here.  After rereading, I somehow got the sense the team AB did something really dumb.

should add HS Varsity 4A schools

Hint - Stay with typical advice

PC-Let your defense work, quit tying yourself into knots and let the batter hit the ball.

HC - Get on base, don't care if it is a hit, a walk, or a hit by pitch, get there kid!

Result: Pitcher balks.

Everyday Dad posted:

should add HS Varsity 4A schools

My reply remains unchanged. 

I have no idea what age group...whoops saw it after i posted

PC - I cant upload any pics to facebook, can you take a look at it for me after the game?

HC - Move up and in, take one for the team. Instead he bunts, lays it down the 3b line, F5 over throws F3, batter tries for 3rd, F5 cant get the short hop batter scores, they're up 3-2.

bball - on target with coaches advice

PC - umpire strike zone sucks.  Just throw it down the middle and lets make a play

HC -  Umpire strike zone sucks.  Look for a pitch down the middle

Haha Lion - The umpire strike zone played a part in the result

Well, if it happened this week where I live, it probably started raining during the mound visit, the game was suspended, and they'll resume action next week.

Swampboy posted:

Well, if it happened this week where I live, it probably started raining during the mound visit, the game was suspended, and they'll resume action next week.

PC - hey man it's all good.  Just relax and let your mechanics take care of you.  This is something you've done a thousand times successfully.  You got this.........ok serious question:  Did you see Ms. So and So at school today?  She was looking good.  I don't see how anybody fails her class.

HC - hey man it's all good.  Just relax and let your mechanics take care of you.  This is something you've done a thousand times successfully.  You got this.........ok serious question: Did you see Ms. So and So at school today?  She was looking good.  I don't see how anybody fails her class.

Result - Deep flyball to RF and runner on second tags.  He leaves a touch too early before the catch.  RF has a cannon and tries to throw out runner going to third but air mails it over relay man and it trickles towards third base / LF area.  Runner makes the turn and scores easily.  But runner on first tries to go to third and is thrown out to end the inning (one out coming in, fly ball in RF 2nd out and this guy is out 3).  But the freshman book keeper saw the runner leave early.  He tells the HC and they make the appeal and run doesn't count on appeal for the mythical fourth out

Throw strikes this guy couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

Take til you get a strike, keep the line moving, get to the next guy.

Swings at first pitch, dp, game over.  

Post game comment by hitter, Coach it was right down the middle and I thought I was going to hit a 3 run hr to win it.  

PC...."ok, we're going to call the play where you turn, act like you're going to throw to 2nd and the SS and 2B take off like you threw it into CF...when the runner takes off, go tag him....then get the guy who is going from first to 2nd....because he fell for it too!!!  I know, I know, it shouldn't work, because we're well past 2nd grade...but trust me...we got this!!"

HC....."no matter what....don't fall for that stupid play where they act like the P throws it into CF....then they get you out at 2nd because you fell for a play that shouldn't work past 2nd grade"

Result....P turns, fakes a throw to 2nd....SS and 2B run toward CF screaming like crazy....guy runs from 2nd...pitcher chases him down......field ump is confused by what's going on....gets in the way of the runner and gets run over.  Home plate ump is still watching the 2B run around in CF and doesn't see the play.  Runner from first thinks the runner from 2nd is out....and passes him on the base path and scores.  Runner from 2nd gets up after running over the ump...and goes back to 2nd.   Umps rule run scores and guy is safe at 2nd because in the confusion the pitcher never tagged him.      Sounds perfectly reasonable to me......and it's a slow Friday here at work....my mind is wandering

PC - Hey, where's the team going for dinner after the game?  AC's and I want to throw back a few so we want to avoid the team.

HC - Dude, take till you get a strike.  Once you have the strike you have the green light.  

Love the levity guys/gals - took the post in a different direction 

Ok here goes

PC - Honestly don't know for sure, although assumed with the timing, it was to stop the momentum and  tell the pitcher relax, throw strikes and his defense was there to back him up. Kind of typical advice to a pitcher who was doing well till the last 2 batters.

HC - To the affect. He just walked 2 batters. Don't help him. Take a pitch or 2.

Result - Thought it was obvious. Takes a meatball for strike 1, takes an outside corner strike for number 2, takes a ball, then gets rung up by an unforgiving ump on a bad call. A curveball that drops in the zone at the chest.

Point is, to me this typical situation has the same predictable outcome for the most part. Just because the pitcher walked 2 straight batters doesn't mean he won't throw another strike again. Yet this is a typical thought process by all, that almost never helps a hitter. 

Buckeye 2015 posted:

PC...."ok, we're going to call the play where you turn, act like you're going to throw to 2nd and the SS and 2B take off like you threw it into CF...when the runner takes off, go tag him....then get the guy who is going from first to 2nd....because he fell for it too!!!  I know, I know, it shouldn't work, because we're well past 2nd grade...but trust me...we got this!!"

HC....."no matter what....don't fall for that stupid play where they act like the P throws it into CF....then they get you out at 2nd because you fell for a play that shouldn't work past 2nd grade"

Result....P turns, fakes a throw to 2nd....SS and 2B run toward CF screaming like crazy....guy runs from 2nd...pitcher chases him down......field ump is confused by what's going on....gets in the way of the runner and gets run over.  Home plate ump is still watching the 2B run around in CF and doesn't see the play.  Runner from first thinks the runner from 2nd is out....and passes him on the base path and scores.  Runner from 2nd gets up after running over the ump...and goes back to 2nd.   Umps rule run scores and guy is safe at 2nd because in the confusion the pitcher never tagged him.      Sounds perfectly reasonable to me......and it's a slow Friday here at work....my mind is wandering

And que the Benny Hill theme song.......I have no clue how to post videos or I would 

We had a similar situation in a game a few weeks ago with  my son coming up.  His coach told him to be selective, but to be ready to jump on that first pitch if it is where he wants it.  He told him that this kid is going to probably try to groove the first one to try to get his stuff back....so be ready.  

Result, son hit a first pitch triple

I agree with smart baseball and not helping a struggling pitcher...but sometimes coaches can literally (unintentionally) hinder a kid by taking the bat out of his hand.  I am pretty sure my son went up to the plate with the idea of taking until a strike, but when his coach gave him the green light to be aggressive it took the pressure off and gave him the confidence to trust his judgement.

Shows the wisdom of Coach May's post the other day about hunting for pitches to mash.

I think if he had talked to the batter, Coach May would have said something to the effect of, "Forget what happened to the previous batters. You step into that box looking for a ball you can smack in the face." 

Not sure why so many coaches get this one wrong...

If the pitcher is struggling - what do you think he is going to do with his first pitch?  He's going to try to get a strike. Most likely with a fastball right down the middle. Might even take a couple MPH off of it.

So, you get the holy grail of pitches as a batter.  Fastball down the middle, and you know it's coming.  What's that coach?  You want me to give him a free strike?  Even if he throws a beach ball right down the middle? I'm going to get the pitch you are always telling me to look for - but this time I'm not supposed to hit it?

Of course the smart pitcher knows they are expecting a meatball, so he throws the changeup - gets the batter to dink one to the SS for an easy DP.

The really smart batter knows the pitcher knows he is looking for a fastball down the middle, so he looks offspeed instead.

Then you get those really really smart pitchers and it starts to get confusing.

Rob T posted:

Not sure why so many coaches get this one wrong...

 

....

Of course the smart pitcher knows they are expecting a meatball, so he throws the changeup - gets the batter to dink one to the SS for an easy DP.

The really smart batter knows the pitcher knows he is looking for a fastball down the middle, so he looks offspeed instead.

Then you get those really really smart pitchers and it starts to get confusing.

 

 

Hahaha, now we're getting somewhere.  How often do we out-think ourselves into compete confusion?  That could be a good topic.

cabbagedad posted:

Rob T posted:

Not sure why so many coaches get this one wrong...

 

....

Of course the smart pitcher knows they are expecting a meatball, so he throws the changeup - gets the batter to dink one to the SS for an easy DP.

The really smart batter knows the pitcher knows he is looking for a fastball down the middle, so he looks offspeed instead.

Then you get those really really smart pitchers and it starts to get confusing.

 

 

Hahaha, now we're getting somewhere.  How often do we out-think ourselves into compete confusion?  That could be a good topic.

COMPETE Confusion.....I think you just coined a new term cabbagedad!

My son was a closer in high school. The coach always seemed amped up after he put my son in and gave his talk. One day I asked my son what he says.

My son said its the same every time. Then he asked if he tells me I won't report the coach. It's a little over the top. I figured if my son was humored and could handle what's being said its not my problem.

"Cut that hitter's balls off (translation: smoke him with heat). Shove them down his throat and get the hell out of here with a (bleep'n) win."

This coach is not a yeller. He's not out of control in the dugout. But he has the death stare of a serial killer.

cabbagedad posted:

Rob T posted:

Not sure why so many coaches get this one wrong...

 

....

Of course the smart pitcher knows they are expecting a meatball, so he throws the changeup - gets the batter to dink one to the SS for an easy DP.

The really smart batter knows the pitcher knows he is looking for a fastball down the middle, so he looks offspeed instead.

Then you get those really really smart pitchers and it starts to get confusing.

 

 

Hahaha, now we're getting somewhere.  How often do we out-think ourselves into compete confusion?  That could be a good topic.

Count Vizzini logic in action.

Everyday Dad posted:

Love the levity guys/gals - took the post in a different direction 

Ok here goes

PC - Honestly don't know for sure, although assumed with the timing, it was to stop the momentum and  tell the pitcher relax, throw strikes and his defense was there to back him up. Kind of typical advice to a pitcher who was doing well till the last 2 batters.

HC - To the affect. He just walked 2 batters. Don't help him. Take a pitch or 2.

Result - Thought it was obvious. Takes a meatball for strike 1, takes an outside corner strike for number 2, takes a ball, then gets rung up by an unforgiving ump on a bad call. A curveball that drops in the zone at the chest.

Point is, to me this typical situation has the same predictable outcome for the most part. Just because the pitcher walked 2 straight batters doesn't mean he won't throw another strike again. Yet this is a typical thought process by all, that almost never helps a hitter. 

Yes.....ish.  How do you know he won't walk that third guy?  But how do we know he won't groove one either or paint the corner with a nasty fastball?  The thing is you never know so you play the percentages.  Yes one strategy is to take until he throws a strike and that includes one right down the middle.  You still have two strikes to work with.  I hope my hitter is mentally tough enough to continue to battle for another good pitch to do something with.  But if my guys sees that pitch down the middle and strokes it into the gap scoring one or both runs my coaching to him will be giving him a high five and telling him great job.  I don't have a take sign and don't believe in them.  I want to teach my hitters to be smart and be disciplined.  Sadly it doesn't always work and I get that kid who thinks it was right down the middle as he hits into an infield fly where they turn the triple play.  

Overall I agree it's crazy to think the pitcher will not throw another strike again but I hope he doesn't.  Plus I hope the other coach has strong belief he will throw another strike but we score 7 or 8 runs before he gives up that belief.  So yeah I agree with you that giving a take sign here might not be the right move but you can't guarantee he will throw another strike either.  How many times have we all seen a struggling pitcher get bailed out by an over aggressive hitting team?  But how many times have we seen a rally stopped because the hitters are taking too many pitches because they are hoping the pitcher is still struggling?

I say teach them to hit through discipline, intelligence and mental toughness.  It may not work all the time but it's better than going one to one of the extremes of being too passive or too aggressive.

You tell the struggling pitcher to throw a fastball down the middle.  Overwhelming  percentages say that first pitch swings will be an out.  Kid will slightly Miss the middle but not enough for the hungry batter to recognize.  Batter rolls over and you've got an out or two.   Works every tyne. 

RJM posted:

My son was a closer in high school. The coach always seemed amped up after he put my son in and gave his talk. One day I asked my son what he says.

My son said its the same every time. Then he asked if he tells me I won't report the coach. It's a little over the top. I figured if my son was humoresque and could handle what's being said its not my problem.

"Cut that hitter's balls off (translation: smoke him with heat). Shove them down his throat and get the hell out of here with a (bleep'n) win."

This coach is not a yeller. He's not out of control in the dugout. But he has the death stare of a serial killer.

Everyday Dad posted:

I'll create the scenario. Have a few questions on what you believe each coach pointed out or stressed to each player. Then guess what eventually developed. I'll confirm the facts later.

3rd inning, Team AB down 3-2..1 out...pitcher walks his first two batters in a row on 9 pitches. Coach calls time to visit the mound, and the HC of the team at bat then summons the slumping player coming to bat and the 2 runners for a chat.

Questions

What do you think the pitching coach said or stressed to the pitcher?

What do you think the HC said or stressed to the hitter coming to bat?

What do you think was the result?

PC:  Throw a strike

HC: Hit a strike

Result:  Real baseball was played. Abner DD smiled from under his massive mustache.

I've always told my players after a mound visit, sit FB and crush it.