I've seen this mentioned in some other posts and also from coaches who know what they are talking about. When they are yelling "top half" as a cue to a hitter, what exactly are they asking them to do?
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To me, the top half is anything hips and above. The lower starts with the ball of the femur down.
When a hitting coach starts giving a cue "Top Half" is usually means to me that the hitter should try to hit the top half of the ball, usually to compensate for a hitter that is hitting pop ups due to hitting the bottom half of the ball.
Just a mental cue to get the hitter to square up properly.
Just a mental cue to get the hitter to square up properly.
Dont even try to "hit down" on the ball...
Top half - attack the top half of the baseball
Not a fan of the que because I would rather focus on fixing the problem vs compensating
But it is heard alot
Not a fan of the que because I would rather focus on fixing the problem vs compensating
But it is heard alot
If you're that good - can hit the top half of the ball - then, just go ahead and hit the middle.....
I never got that statement because it would cause you to hit the ball right into the ground. Is that what pitching coaches want hitters to do? Hitting the ball square = the greatest amount of force on the ball. Thats why I invented the ImpactBat
Lol BlueDog thats what I have always said and thought when I hear that. The goal is to center the baseball. Square it up if you will. If your goal is to hit the top half and you achieve that goal consistently you will be an excellent ground ball hitter.
The cue is just that a cue. The goal is not to hit the top half but to adjust off hitting underneath the ball causing a pop up.
My guys were 11 or 12 when this cue was used with them. It was simple and easily understood by my boys.
I don't think this cue is used for MLB players though...It is geared for a younger audience. Purely to communicate a minor adjustment.
My guys were 11 or 12 when this cue was used with them. It was simple and easily understood by my boys.
I don't think this cue is used for MLB players though...It is geared for a younger audience. Purely to communicate a minor adjustment.
I do believe, learn how to whip the bat and it will square up with the ball alot more consistently....
Problem is, you see pushed or pulled bats and not whipped bats.....
Problem is, you see pushed or pulled bats and not whipped bats.....
Whats the cue for that...Top Hand, I believe.
quote:Originally posted by floridafan:
The cue is just that a cue. The goal is not to hit the top half but to adjust off hitting underneath the ball causing a pop up.
My guys were 11 or 12 when this cue was used with them. It was simple and easily understood by my boys.
I don't think this cue is used for MLB players though...It is geared for a younger audience. Purely to communicate a minor adjustment.
Yep! It will work up to that age for most kids. John Cohen has a drill where he has hitters hit on the down slope or up slope of a Pitcher's mound to correct topping or undercutting. It is a quick fix, but usually temporary for older hitters.
I have Cohen's DVD on the 40 drills...was really impressed with him after attending a clinic...don't care for too many of the drills...would say they are geared more for a younger audience.
Do like the med ball warm-ups he has.
Do like the med ball warm-ups he has.
quote:Originally posted by PlankSpanker:
I've seen this mentioned in some other posts and also from coaches who know what they are talking about. When they are yelling "top half" as a cue to a hitter, what exactly are they asking them to do?
When I hear and say "top half" I think top half of the body. When talking top half, its usually related to the shoulders being open or closed. (Just as "lower half" is usually used for the hips being open or closed.)
BlueDog's post made me laugh. I can understand inside half, but not top half. (I must admit to asking players to try to hit the top half at select times. But this is for extreme cases where a hitter is swinging and missing under the ball repeatedly and is intended to shift the hitters eyes/focus a bit, not for repeated, long-term use.)
I once had an "experienced" coach, who has won alot more games that me...ask...Do ya'll teach TOP half or BOTTOM half of the ball?
I said.......middle
I said.......middle
I'm pretty sure the ones I'm referencing mean "top half" of the body not the ball, but I could be wrong. I've heard 2 guys say this recently and they were both former MLB players talking to high school players. Maybe I'll just ask next time...
I also heard one recently about hitting the "inside" of the baseball and creating "backspin". If you were really good enough to see what part of the ball to hit and how to spin it, how would you ever miss?
So many questions....
I also heard one recently about hitting the "inside" of the baseball and creating "backspin". If you were really good enough to see what part of the ball to hit and how to spin it, how would you ever miss?
So many questions....
If you hit the top of the ball, it can only go down, and the ball is rotating down like a curveball.
If you hit the middle of the ball, it knuckles.
If you hit the middle, inside of the ball, it spins sideways and gets no lift.
If you hit just below the center line, it goes up - with backspin like a 4 seam fastball.
If you hit too far under, its a popup.
Also, look at a video of any top MLB hitter. The bat head goes under the hands.
If you hit the middle of the ball, it knuckles.
If you hit the middle, inside of the ball, it spins sideways and gets no lift.
If you hit just below the center line, it goes up - with backspin like a 4 seam fastball.
If you hit too far under, its a popup.
Also, look at a video of any top MLB hitter. The bat head goes under the hands.
What some of you guys may not realize is that when we speak of certain things...we mean the extreme..
We I talk of bat head below hands...I mean 8-12 inches...on a belt high fastball...
Not 3-6 inches like some MLB hitters...
We I talk of bat head below hands...I mean 8-12 inches...on a belt high fastball...
Not 3-6 inches like some MLB hitters...
quote:Also, look at a video of any top MLB hitter. The bat head goes under the hands.
On extension, not at contact
I have primarily heard "top half" during an at bat in the context of trying to encourage the hitter to strike the top half of the ball.
I have also heard comments about "your lower half" usually meaning that the hips are not turning fast enough.
I would not be surprised if an instructor/coach who has a player that is not finishing in a balanced stance, might have a cue about "top half" that references this.
Having watched my son and many instructors work, it's not surprising that the same words can have different meanings at different times. Like most things, you have to take it in context with what is being taught. It's also quite funny how, someone saying something for a week has no success and they change the wording just slightly and the kid gets it!
I have also heard comments about "your lower half" usually meaning that the hips are not turning fast enough.
I would not be surprised if an instructor/coach who has a player that is not finishing in a balanced stance, might have a cue about "top half" that references this.
Having watched my son and many instructors work, it's not surprising that the same words can have different meanings at different times. Like most things, you have to take it in context with what is being taught. It's also quite funny how, someone saying something for a week has no success and they change the wording just slightly and the kid gets it!
Blue Dog
I am very curious about bat whip and how to achieve it. We are at this stage of the process in my sons hitting instruction right now.
He is being taught rotational style of hitting. The stages we have been through thus far have been basically:
Stance/Balance
Trigger coming back to balance point on rear leg
Stride and plant
hips turn almost fully open now when top half (everything above the hips here) starts to go. I understand that the term "separation" is the time between when the hips start and when the shoulders start to turn.
We work with a whiffle ball on a rope and the ball is approximately fifteen feet out in front of the plate (approximately where the swing begins). The rope is angled at the trajectory of the pitch.
My son drives his hands (the knob of the bat) out to the ball (a little inside). At full extension, the wrists snap and the bat is level. As the wrists roll, we want the bat to glide level along the rope (swing plane) for as long as possible.
There are a lot of drills we have done to assist this last part. Our instructor has said that this is primarily to achieve "whip" and the best way he says to know you've got it is to hear it.
One of the drills we are doing to assist with whip, is using a hockey glove, my son backhand swats whiffle balls with his lead hand line driving balls outward.
I believe that the whip begins with the speed of the hips (my son's hips lagged his upper body back in September) and is helped by the hands actively accelerating out to the ball, facilitating a powerful snap of the wrists. I say this because there are a lot of coaches that will say drive the knob of the bat to the ball.
We have a lot of stuff to do yet, not the least of which is that my son's bat speed is visually about double what it used to be - a lot of that attributed to the more direct route to the ball.
The other thing we are tryng to achieve is to put backspin on the ball but, that is down the road from where we are at now.
Right now we are hearing whip once or twice in twenty swings.
Let me know if this sounds right and if there are other drills to help us achieve the whip.
I am very curious about bat whip and how to achieve it. We are at this stage of the process in my sons hitting instruction right now.
He is being taught rotational style of hitting. The stages we have been through thus far have been basically:
Stance/Balance
Trigger coming back to balance point on rear leg
Stride and plant
hips turn almost fully open now when top half (everything above the hips here) starts to go. I understand that the term "separation" is the time between when the hips start and when the shoulders start to turn.
We work with a whiffle ball on a rope and the ball is approximately fifteen feet out in front of the plate (approximately where the swing begins). The rope is angled at the trajectory of the pitch.
My son drives his hands (the knob of the bat) out to the ball (a little inside). At full extension, the wrists snap and the bat is level. As the wrists roll, we want the bat to glide level along the rope (swing plane) for as long as possible.
There are a lot of drills we have done to assist this last part. Our instructor has said that this is primarily to achieve "whip" and the best way he says to know you've got it is to hear it.
One of the drills we are doing to assist with whip, is using a hockey glove, my son backhand swats whiffle balls with his lead hand line driving balls outward.
I believe that the whip begins with the speed of the hips (my son's hips lagged his upper body back in September) and is helped by the hands actively accelerating out to the ball, facilitating a powerful snap of the wrists. I say this because there are a lot of coaches that will say drive the knob of the bat to the ball.
We have a lot of stuff to do yet, not the least of which is that my son's bat speed is visually about double what it used to be - a lot of that attributed to the more direct route to the ball.
The other thing we are tryng to achieve is to put backspin on the ball but, that is down the road from where we are at now.
Right now we are hearing whip once or twice in twenty swings.
Let me know if this sounds right and if there are other drills to help us achieve the whip.
quote:Originally posted by Old School79:quote:Also, look at a video of any top MLB hitter. The bat head goes under the hands.
On extension, not at contact
ummm... prior to contact
quote:Originally posted by Notlongtilicantcatchim:
hips turn almost fully open now when top half (everything above the hips here) starts to go.
Do you see this in the videos of top MLB hitters? Look at my avatar for a start.
I should add that he has been pushed to keep his hands above the bat head as he comes to the rope (point of contact). I can recall one lesson where they spent quite a bit of time on that.
The avatar looks like Williams. His hands are going with his hips. Right now, my son's hips are about 80% turned before his hands even start to go.
The instructor may change this. There are other things that he has distinctly started one way saying that we will change later (his lead arm out with the bent elbow up).
My son has been the big roly-poly kid for four years. He's now a lot leaner and stronger (body changed, basketball, and five days a week in the gym - his choice - last summer). His swing was all upper body - the hips just came along for the ride. When we started into hitting in the fall with this instructor, his body had changed quite a bit. At first we did a lot of tee work, with the bat held
across the hipbones - just turning the hips and hitting driving a whiffle ball. We did this for about a month and then we had to stop for a couple of months. He's been back at it for a month or so now.
The big thing we can see now is how fast his hips can turn when he does a free swing. It could be that the instructor is going to change the timing of when that happens but, doesnt want to discourage how fast that's working. He definitely sees it.
I should add that much of what we are doing now is speeding up the drive of the hands to the ball. I will ask this weekend.
The avatar looks like Williams. His hands are going with his hips. Right now, my son's hips are about 80% turned before his hands even start to go.
The instructor may change this. There are other things that he has distinctly started one way saying that we will change later (his lead arm out with the bent elbow up).
My son has been the big roly-poly kid for four years. He's now a lot leaner and stronger (body changed, basketball, and five days a week in the gym - his choice - last summer). His swing was all upper body - the hips just came along for the ride. When we started into hitting in the fall with this instructor, his body had changed quite a bit. At first we did a lot of tee work, with the bat held
across the hipbones - just turning the hips and hitting driving a whiffle ball. We did this for about a month and then we had to stop for a couple of months. He's been back at it for a month or so now.
The big thing we can see now is how fast his hips can turn when he does a free swing. It could be that the instructor is going to change the timing of when that happens but, doesnt want to discourage how fast that's working. He definitely sees it.
I should add that much of what we are doing now is speeding up the drive of the hands to the ball. I will ask this weekend.
quote:Originally posted by Notlongtilicantcatchim:
I should add that much of what we are doing now is speeding up the drive of the hands to the ball. I will ask this weekend.
Try this experiment. Go to a field. Hit a few balls by driving your hands faster. Then hit a few balls by holding your hands back as long as possible. Which balls go further? Which video looks more like a top MLB hitter?
quote:Originally posted by Notlongtilicantcatchim:
Blue Dog
I am very curious about bat whip and how to achieve it. We are at this stage of the process in my sons hitting instruction right now.
He is being taught rotational style of hitting. The stages we have been through thus far have been basically:
Stance/Balance
Trigger coming back to balance point on rear leg
Stride and plant
hips turn almost fully open now when top half (everything above the hips here) starts to go. I understand that the term "separation" is the time between when the hips start and when the shoulders start to turn.
We work with a whiffle ball on a rope and the ball is approximately fifteen feet out in front of the plate (approximately where the swing begins). The rope is angled at the trajectory of the pitch.
My son drives his hands (the knob of the bat) out to the ball (a little inside). At full extension, the wrists snap and the bat is level. As the wrists roll, we want the bat to glide level along the rope (swing plane) for as long as possible.
There are a lot of drills we have done to assist this last part. Our instructor has said that this is primarily to achieve "whip" and the best way he says to know you've got it is to hear it.
One of the drills we are doing to assist with whip, is using a hockey glove, my son backhand swats whiffle balls with his lead hand line driving balls outward.
I believe that the whip begins with the speed of the hips (my son's hips lagged his upper body back in September) and is helped by the hands actively accelerating out to the ball, facilitating a powerful snap of the wrists. I say this because there are a lot of coaches that will say drive the knob of the bat to the ball.
We have a lot of stuff to do yet, not the least of which is that my son's bat speed is visually about double what it used to be - a lot of that attributed to the more direct route to the ball.
The other thing we are tryng to achieve is to put backspin on the ball but, that is down the road from where we are at now.
Right now we are hearing whip once or twice in twenty swings.
Let me know if this sounds right and if there are other drills to help us achieve the whip.
Post a clip of your Son's current swing and you will get your answers.
quote:Originally posted by Notlongtilicantcatchim:
My son drives his hands (the knob of the bat) out to the ball (a little inside). At full extension, the wrists snap and the bat is level. As the wrists roll, we want the bat to glide level along the rope (swing plane) for as long as possible.
Are his hands driving to the ball or are his arms driving his hands to the ball? The difference is critical.
Have him take some swings with his hands spread apart like Ty Cobb. See what happens. Film it and watch it frame by frame so you know for sure. Watch the elbows in relation to the hands in relation to the shoulder along with the timing of the hip drive. Ask him how it feels. (Make him be more specific than "weird" and/or "different"!)
I may or may not be a bit out of context here but, I didnt mean that the hands would be driving the ball.
In the avatar swing the shoulder and hips appear to rotate much the same. The arms are are back and bring the bat head around in an arc. Am I seeing this right?
When I say bringing the hands faster to the ball, I am not saying that from a standpoint of bringing the bat head out and around - all arms. I am saying that from a standpoint of adding to momentum prior to snap, roll, and contact.
I look at this like a torsional spring (with a variable spring constant). Assume I can maximize the rotational acceleration with my hips to the point just before contact. Assume I can add the rotational acceleration of my upper body (caused by the separation) to that (not happening in the avatar). Assume that my hands drive the knob linearly with acceleration (the tricky part) out in front. Assume my wrists dont just break and roll - they actually add to the rotational acceleration as they are breaking and rolling.
If we look at this after the hips turn, there are three additional sources of acceleration as compared to the arms in the avatar. Further, the bat head is quicker to the ball (it's not travelling around in a gradual arc prior to whip). This should give the hitter a longer look.
Another reason for adopting this swing is to keep the level bat head moving through the zone of contact for as long as possible. Part of the reason we have chosen to go with this style, is that we wont be able to actually walk out onto a baseball field until April and our season will end in early September. If you compare kids who play from February to December in the southern climates, they could have the worst swing in the world but, have the hours of repitition to put the bat on the ball all day. Many MLB hitters swing with a deep vee for a home run ball. I dont believe with our short seasons that that's a good strategy for my son. We dont see the same quality of pitching that we might in Texas, etc.
In know our instructor has used Ramirez and Howard as examples. If I recall correctly, he has specifically talked about how Howard strives to get the knob of the bat out as far as possible.
I am just an observer with a bit of a technical bent (enough to be dangerous). My reason for asking questions here is to facilitate the process.
I notice in the "Evaluate my swing post" above, powertoallfields seems to be a proponent of separation.
I know there are different swing styles and I can respect those differences.
In the avatar swing the shoulder and hips appear to rotate much the same. The arms are are back and bring the bat head around in an arc. Am I seeing this right?
When I say bringing the hands faster to the ball, I am not saying that from a standpoint of bringing the bat head out and around - all arms. I am saying that from a standpoint of adding to momentum prior to snap, roll, and contact.
I look at this like a torsional spring (with a variable spring constant). Assume I can maximize the rotational acceleration with my hips to the point just before contact. Assume I can add the rotational acceleration of my upper body (caused by the separation) to that (not happening in the avatar). Assume that my hands drive the knob linearly with acceleration (the tricky part) out in front. Assume my wrists dont just break and roll - they actually add to the rotational acceleration as they are breaking and rolling.
If we look at this after the hips turn, there are three additional sources of acceleration as compared to the arms in the avatar. Further, the bat head is quicker to the ball (it's not travelling around in a gradual arc prior to whip). This should give the hitter a longer look.
Another reason for adopting this swing is to keep the level bat head moving through the zone of contact for as long as possible. Part of the reason we have chosen to go with this style, is that we wont be able to actually walk out onto a baseball field until April and our season will end in early September. If you compare kids who play from February to December in the southern climates, they could have the worst swing in the world but, have the hours of repitition to put the bat on the ball all day. Many MLB hitters swing with a deep vee for a home run ball. I dont believe with our short seasons that that's a good strategy for my son. We dont see the same quality of pitching that we might in Texas, etc.
In know our instructor has used Ramirez and Howard as examples. If I recall correctly, he has specifically talked about how Howard strives to get the knob of the bat out as far as possible.
I am just an observer with a bit of a technical bent (enough to be dangerous). My reason for asking questions here is to facilitate the process.
I notice in the "Evaluate my swing post" above, powertoallfields seems to be a proponent of separation.
I know there are different swing styles and I can respect those differences.
BobbyTewks
The emphasis is on getting the hands out or driving the knob out in the lessons. The rear upper arm is kept in close the body. He started out by having the front upper arm high but, said this would change after a while. Definitely, the guy is asking him to get his hands extended as far as possible. It’s like getting the hands to the fulcrum point quickly.
We are getting the benefit of an instructor whose son is in third year at a school south of the Mason Dixon line. We go two days a week and two hours each session. It’s definitely not about the money. In his own words, his son was not necessarily a stand out in elite ball. In fact his son had an upper body fly away swing like my son’s old one at seventeen. The big change came that year when he took his son to a guy in Wisconsin (Sportstechnique or something). We hope to go there sometime with the trainer. The son has gone on to become a highly successful player/hitter. He’s in his third year at a university south of the Mason Dixon line (had multiple offers this year). My son is thirteen and actually taller than his son.
The trainer is a high school teacher and I believe that one of the reasons he likes working with my son is that my son is able to clearly articulate what’s happening with his body. In fact, he’s there to help another kid learn to articulate better.
The emphasis is on getting the hands out or driving the knob out in the lessons. The rear upper arm is kept in close the body. He started out by having the front upper arm high but, said this would change after a while. Definitely, the guy is asking him to get his hands extended as far as possible. It’s like getting the hands to the fulcrum point quickly.
We are getting the benefit of an instructor whose son is in third year at a school south of the Mason Dixon line. We go two days a week and two hours each session. It’s definitely not about the money. In his own words, his son was not necessarily a stand out in elite ball. In fact his son had an upper body fly away swing like my son’s old one at seventeen. The big change came that year when he took his son to a guy in Wisconsin (Sportstechnique or something). We hope to go there sometime with the trainer. The son has gone on to become a highly successful player/hitter. He’s in his third year at a university south of the Mason Dixon line (had multiple offers this year). My son is thirteen and actually taller than his son.
The trainer is a high school teacher and I believe that one of the reasons he likes working with my son is that my son is able to clearly articulate what’s happening with his body. In fact, he’s there to help another kid learn to articulate better.
What is "as far out in front as possible"?
Swing style and swing mechanics are different. Style is initial handset, stride length, wiggling the bat, anything pre-swing or pre "go".
Swing style and swing mechanics are different. Style is initial handset, stride length, wiggling the bat, anything pre-swing or pre "go".
Also, when driving out to the front with the hands, does the "fulcrum" then occur out in front? When does this fulcrum kick into gear? Check Manny in the overhead view above - where it he rolling his wrists over? (By the way, how far do you think that ball went???)
I remember reading something about Howard (maybe in ESPN the Magazine). He said he thinks of himself as a contact hitter who happens to have power.
I remember reading something about Howard (maybe in ESPN the Magazine). He said he thinks of himself as a contact hitter who happens to have power.
You see in the first and third clips how Manny’s hands are actually moving out towards the trajectory of the ball…
I’m not talking necessarily about being in front of the ball at the point of contact. I cant remember the exact numbers but, I believe that a swing must be started about 0.1 seconds prior to crossing the plate (when the ball is about 15’ out). When my son starts to initiate his swing, his hands are driving out to that point when the ball was about 15’ out.
All the hitters in the clips tend to cross a point where my son is being asked to start now. If you look in the third clip, if you got about ¾ of the way through, you would see his rear upper arm down alongside his body and his front arm higher bent at the elbow, etc. That is the position where my son is being started now. It is now making sense to me why the instructor said we would change this later. The hitters in the clips are recoiling or cocking prior to coming through this position. I believe my son is being given a plce that he must always come through. I will confirm this on the weekend.
Let me say in my case, there was a time where I overworked my son. I had him with just about every hitting instructor there was at different times. I do recognize that there are times where an instructor will get a kid to do something as an interim measure so he can work on one aspect without a lot of other stuff going on.
To be clear, imagine that a ball is 10 or 12 feet out in front of you on its trajectory to being a strike. That is where my son is targeting his hands and the knob. By the time the ball is at the contact point, his wrists are rolling etc. so the hands are not really in front of the ball at the contact point. When you said check Manny out when his wrists roll, I agree – the knob is not WAY in front. Maybe I should say way in front AT the ball (when the ball was in front).
I do notice that my son’s trigger step is different. He is encouraged to bring his foot back in a circle before he plants. He exaggerates the word BAAAA and when the plant foot comes down he says BOOM and his hips explode. The instructor wants him to be at a perfect balance on his rear leg when the front foot is farthest back in the circle. Certainly my sons separation is more exaggerated than the clips but, then again he’s not taking a 90 mph fastball.
He also did quite a lot of drills hitting with his front hand only (like the hockey glove drill) using a small aluminum bat and taking whiffle balls to different locations. The idea was to take the hand out to the ball and snap (with the wrist) a line drive. He had to use his hips and end up with balance. It was incredible the amount of power he generated from that. I think if it were a baseball he would have gone 200’ on some of them.
I mentioned to the instructor that last summer my son appeared to be an anxious hitter. He was playing in a weak league but he was playing two years up. The instructor has been working on having him take the ball deeper and deeper (forcing an opposite field hit).
I’m not talking necessarily about being in front of the ball at the point of contact. I cant remember the exact numbers but, I believe that a swing must be started about 0.1 seconds prior to crossing the plate (when the ball is about 15’ out). When my son starts to initiate his swing, his hands are driving out to that point when the ball was about 15’ out.
All the hitters in the clips tend to cross a point where my son is being asked to start now. If you look in the third clip, if you got about ¾ of the way through, you would see his rear upper arm down alongside his body and his front arm higher bent at the elbow, etc. That is the position where my son is being started now. It is now making sense to me why the instructor said we would change this later. The hitters in the clips are recoiling or cocking prior to coming through this position. I believe my son is being given a plce that he must always come through. I will confirm this on the weekend.
Let me say in my case, there was a time where I overworked my son. I had him with just about every hitting instructor there was at different times. I do recognize that there are times where an instructor will get a kid to do something as an interim measure so he can work on one aspect without a lot of other stuff going on.
To be clear, imagine that a ball is 10 or 12 feet out in front of you on its trajectory to being a strike. That is where my son is targeting his hands and the knob. By the time the ball is at the contact point, his wrists are rolling etc. so the hands are not really in front of the ball at the contact point. When you said check Manny out when his wrists roll, I agree – the knob is not WAY in front. Maybe I should say way in front AT the ball (when the ball was in front).
I do notice that my son’s trigger step is different. He is encouraged to bring his foot back in a circle before he plants. He exaggerates the word BAAAA and when the plant foot comes down he says BOOM and his hips explode. The instructor wants him to be at a perfect balance on his rear leg when the front foot is farthest back in the circle. Certainly my sons separation is more exaggerated than the clips but, then again he’s not taking a 90 mph fastball.
He also did quite a lot of drills hitting with his front hand only (like the hockey glove drill) using a small aluminum bat and taking whiffle balls to different locations. The idea was to take the hand out to the ball and snap (with the wrist) a line drive. He had to use his hips and end up with balance. It was incredible the amount of power he generated from that. I think if it were a baseball he would have gone 200’ on some of them.
I mentioned to the instructor that last summer my son appeared to be an anxious hitter. He was playing in a weak league but he was playing two years up. The instructor has been working on having him take the ball deeper and deeper (forcing an opposite field hit).
Yeah... love that swing.
quote:Originally posted by Notlongtilicantcatchim:
By the time the ball is at the contact point, his wrists are rolling etc.
He also did quite a lot of drills hitting with his front hand only (like the hockey glove drill) using a small aluminum bat and taking whiffle balls to different locations. The idea was to take the hand out to the ball and snap (with the wrist) a line drive.
I would change instructors. This is not rotational hitting
Sorry, I wrote that incorrectly. The sequence he was taught was jab, snap, and roll. I wrote that at the contact point, my son’s his wrists were rolling – that is incorrect. I talked to my son tonight and his wrists are rolling after contact.
Sorry for the confusion.
Sorry for the confusion.
quote:The other thing we are tryng to achieve is to put backspin on the ball
Every cue and drill you are using, sounds like linear hitting. My alarm bells are going off.
This one (backspin) sounds like the old "hit the top of the ball to get it to go up" cue. The only way to get backspin (and rightly so) is to allow the bat head to get UNDER your hands before contact.
Sultan, I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you.
If I look at all of the clips above prior to contact, I see specific things my son has been asked to do. My son has been pushed to have his hands above the bat head. The way Manny’s upper half and the position of his arms are all consistent with the way my sons are in that third clip. The only thing different, is my son has yet to add the counter rotation.
Here’s the difference I see from what we are doing compared to the clips:
At the end of clip 3, Manny’s wrists appear to be snapping. Stop me if I’m wrong. I believe that my sons hands would be further out in front of him. If I look at clip 1 after his wrists snap, Manny’s finish is high lifting the ball out – like Howard. My son’s bat barrel will travel out level (not high) and the barrel will at one point be extended pointing at the pitcher (I suspect another one of the linear swing buzzwords). Then his wrists will roll over after the swing.
If this is linear hitting, please confirm it. I’m OK with that.
If I look at all of the clips above prior to contact, I see specific things my son has been asked to do. My son has been pushed to have his hands above the bat head. The way Manny’s upper half and the position of his arms are all consistent with the way my sons are in that third clip. The only thing different, is my son has yet to add the counter rotation.
Here’s the difference I see from what we are doing compared to the clips:
At the end of clip 3, Manny’s wrists appear to be snapping. Stop me if I’m wrong. I believe that my sons hands would be further out in front of him. If I look at clip 1 after his wrists snap, Manny’s finish is high lifting the ball out – like Howard. My son’s bat barrel will travel out level (not high) and the barrel will at one point be extended pointing at the pitcher (I suspect another one of the linear swing buzzwords). Then his wrists will roll over after the swing.
If this is linear hitting, please confirm it. I’m OK with that.
quote:Every cue and drill you are using, sounds like linear hitting. My alarm bells are going off.
This one (backspin) sounds like the old "hit the top of the ball to get it to go up" cue. The only way to get backspin (and rightly so) is to allow the bat head to get UNDER your hands before contact.
LOL, We call dropping the bat head, flipping the ball, down here. A by product of an aluminium bat swing. Purly rotational swings do not work for most hitters. It does add power if it can be mastered. However, we teach rotational extension. Best described by the swing comparison of Michael Young. Described as a combination of power and average.
Compare it to the swing of Ian Kinsler, a purly rotational hitter. Kinsler has a fly ball swing, great for pulling home runs, however he gives up the outer half of the plate, thus resulting in mostly weak fly balls to right. He hits more home runs with this swing, but his average suffers. Young on the other hand, drives the ball with power to all fields, and has a substantially higher average.
We would rather have our hitters hit for higher average with power, as opposed to the home run flip. Check out the 2 year NCAA study listed on this forum, concerning ground balls, line drives and fly balls. Why would you want hitters to develop a fly ball swing after reading the study?
FLY BALLS (account for approx. 41% of batted balls):
- Only 2% resulted in Home runs beyond the fence.
- BAvg on fly balls was less than .200 (about .186).
Conclusion; don't swing for the fences and if you hit the ball in the air, it will most likely be caught.
GROUND BALLS (account for approx. 44% of batted balls):
- BAvg on ground balls was slightly over .200 (about .210 I think).
Conclusion; statistically you are better served hitting a ground ball than a fly ball. There is the additional possibility of a fielding error (thrower and receiver) or a throwing error granting you a free base! The reason a Coach (particularly at the Youth level), would prefer ground balls to flies.
LINE DRIVES (accounted for less than 15% of all batted balls, I believe).
- An astounding 80% resulted in base hits!
Conclusion; Strive to hit line drives (preferably in the gaps!).
BAvg findings in MLB probably differs with Wood vs. the NCAA metal bats where more ground balls could "find the holes" quicker. But, would bet the instance of flies, grounders and line drives would be similar.
Kinsler's Career Stats
Avg .279
OBP .350
SLG .477
OPS .827
Young' Career Stats
Avg .302
OBP .349
SLG .449
OPS .798
What happened in 2008 when Kinsler hit .319 while Young hit .284? Can you point to a mechanical flaw that caused a 3rd year player to hit 31 HRs and drive in 86 runs (in 2009)? Do you believe that Kinsler is trying to hit fly balls?
Avg .279
OBP .350
SLG .477
OPS .827
Young' Career Stats
Avg .302
OBP .349
SLG .449
OPS .798
What happened in 2008 when Kinsler hit .319 while Young hit .284? Can you point to a mechanical flaw that caused a 3rd year player to hit 31 HRs and drive in 86 runs (in 2009)? Do you believe that Kinsler is trying to hit fly balls?
