What happened to the sandlot and Little League?

quote:

I hope I'm done with these type of parents. What should I expect in the HS ranks now a days?

All the above!

Sit back and enjoy the experience, the circus has just begun

quote
"I just don't want my kid or myself to have to deal with whiny, unruly, idiotic parents who swear their kid is the best thing since Nolan Ryan."

Try piano lessons, or golf, the last time I looked they were still not team sports.

quote:

Try piano lessons, or golf, the last time I looked they were still not team sports.

That's the point, baseball is a TEAM sport but it's difficult when there are kids with egos as big as their parents because of select ball.

quote:

Originally posted by CUJAYS34:
Hey I'm new here and just asking some questions? I was directed to this site through my kid's HS website. He just made the HS team as a freshman. One thing I think is great about this is he made it through without playing a day of "select" baseball. I grew up in LL as there wasn't such a thing growing up. These "select" teams were atrocious (sp) as the kids played up to a hundred games a season, parents were the type we see on dateline, blowing up, etc. It wasn't a game to them, probably due to the financial burden taken on and parent's living their dreams through the kids. After reading some of the posts on here, it seems there are a lot of these "select" parents here in the HS ranks. I've read whining about coaches, playing time, a sick amount of bragging, "my kid this," "my kid that."

I just don't want my kid or myself to have to deal with whiny, unruly, idiotic parents who swear their kid is the best thing since Nolan Ryan. We had a summer like that last year and it was dreadful going to games. It was a LL team that travelled in the area. It is nice to see advice to whiny parents on here to tell the kids to suck it up as that is the rule I've always followed as it teaches life lessons, but for every bit of that advice given, there is a lot of whining going on.

Little league was a blast for me and my kids in general as there was no burnout, and we played at the sandlot when there weren't games going on. Ya never see a kid with a bat and glove hanging off of the handlebars of a bike anymore, it seems that a kids talent is guaged by how much money mommy and daddy have.

I hope I'm done with these type of parents. What should I expect in the HS ranks now a days?

quote:

it seems that a kids talent is guaged by how much money mommy and daddy have.

I have to disagree with this. You can't assume because a kid is on a travel (or elite, select or whatever team) that the parent has money. We have struggled alot the last few years so our son can play travel ball, and move up each level. It's not easy (we don't "have money"), but money has nothing to do with talent. We all take different routes, just because you took one route doesn't make the others wrong. It's true some do have lots of money and will pay for all kinds of lessons and coaching and etc, but that only helps a kid so much. My opinion is you can't teach talent, it's something you're born with. You can work on talent and improve it, but you can't teach it. Also, if someone doesn't have a "natural talent" it does not mean you can't work hard and get better. But don't assume a kid is only good or talented because his parents have money. Money doesn't=talent, it helps with some aspects, but it doesn't make a kid more talented.
BTW, congratulations to your son on making his HS team, that is awesome!

CUJays34;

Pretend your a pro scout. Watch the game from different angles. Two innings in RF corner; one inning behind 1b; two innings behind home plate;two innings past 3b and down the line.

Wear sunglasses and a straw hat, stop watch with cord hanging 2 "below the right pants pocket. Also have a tape recorder or note book.

That will be 7 innings and the game is over. No one will talk to you.

This was the story of a father, when his son played on our 1994 Goodwill Series teams in Japan. The son later played 10 years in the Major Leagues.

Bob

quote:

He just made the HS team as a freshman

Congrats to the young man making the team. Hopefully it'll be a fun ride.

quote:

One thing I think is great about this is he made it through without playing a day of "select" baseball. I grew up in LL as there wasn't such a thing growing up.

Select ball isn't requiredto make a high school team. However, one thing that helps a player if he does play in leagues that are more advanced than rec is that they'll see better pitching and more of it. Again, it's not necessary but if they can play more baseball than the rec season and all-stars offer and they want to do it, it'll only help them get better. In our area, there are local travel leagues which cost little more than joining the local rec league but in those leagues are the concentration of more advanced players that likely will be on their high school team. High school coaches will always find a place for players who can hit. That's the biggest thing my son got out of playing on a travel team in a travel league. More better players. His defense was always gonna be there but facing consistent higher level pitching helped him a lot as a hitter.

My son's former high school head coach assumed most of his players played in some level of travel ball outside of rec.

quote:

These "select" teams were atrocious (sp) as the kids played up to a hundred games a season, parents were the type we see on dateline, blowing up, etc. It wasn't a game to them, probably due to the financial burden taken on and parent's living their dreams through the kids.

That's their choice and who are we to judge what's right for someone else's kid. Travel ball works for many that make a high school team. The only problem is when it comes to an end for the ones who plunk down a ton of loot and the kid gets cut from the high school team, they come crashing down very hard. How much money parents spend on their dream and their kid's dream is their business. I couldn't be bothered worrying about that nonsense.

I enjoyed every minute of all the years my son played ball and got a kick out of reading about him in the paper for having a big day with the bat contributing to a varsity win.

For my son, playing travel ball definitely helped him play at the next level.

quote:

Reading some of the posts on here, it seems there are a lot of these "select" parents here in the HS ranks. I've read whining about coaches, playing time, a sick amount of bragging, "my kid this," "my kid that."

I suppose if I got bugged by that stuff all that, I wouldn't have enjoyed watching my kid play all those years. If some parent caught my ear and started bragging about their kid, I didn't care. I was there to watch my kid play. I got a kick out of hearing some of the things they'd say. If I heard enough, I'd just go watch the game somewhere else on the field.

quote:

I just don't want my kid or myself to have to deal with whiny, unruly, idiotic parents who swear their kid is the best thing since Nolan Ryan. We had a summer like that last year and it was dreadful going to games. It was a LL team that travelled in the area.

Don't hang around that circle of peeps. What else can you do? Go watch the game in a quiet area of the field. This way, they don't bother you.

quote:

It is nice to see advice to whiny parents on here to tell the kids to suck it up as that is the rule I've always followed as it teaches life lessons, but for every bit of that advice given, there is a lot of whining going on.

It's all good.

quote:

Little league was a blast for me and my kids in general as there was no burnout, and we played at the sandlot when there weren't games going on. Ya never see a kid with a bat and glove hanging off of the handlebars of a bike anymore, it seems that a kids talent is guaged by how much money mommy and daddy have.

That was years ago. Today's world is different and the best thing to do is to go with it. I played more ball on weekends alone then today's kid did in an entire season. That's the way it was. If I counted, I probably threw 200 pitches in games and it wasn't with just a baseball. it was spongeballs and that dreaded whiffleball that today's dads cringe at when they see their investment in their sons pitching coaches at 10 yrs old go out and throw the whiffleball.

What worked 30-40 years ago won't necessarily work today. It's a little more than coincidence that almost all the players I know of who played high school ball played in some advanced league outside of rec. That's the way it is.

quote:

I hope I'm done with these type of parents. What should I expect in the HS ranks now a days?

Don't count on it going away because it's high school ball. Yea, the daddyball thing will cut down but you get a new twist of potential politicking with the booster club parents. You'll just have to figure out how to deal with it.

quote:

Originally posted by CUJAYS34:
I hope I'm done with these type of parents. What should I expect in the HS ranks now a days?

Ralph Waldo Emerson said it best:
Evermore in the world is this marvelous balance of beauty and disgust, magnificence and rats

I do hear you about Little League and sandlot, we played baseball all summer from dusk to dawn, no umpires , I dont even remember if we kept score. But that is not there for my son, I wish it was. He started out in Rec ball but when he was 11 we were asked to join a travel team. Beleive me when I say we do not have money, but we wanted are son to get better coaching and play better competition, so far (he is now 15) it has worked for us. You see bad parents at rec ball just like travel. Anyway congrats on your son making his high school enjoy every minute.

quote:

Originally posted by CUJAYS34:
Hey I'm new here and just asking some questions? I was directed to this site through my kid's HS website. He just made the HS team as a freshman. One thing I think is great about this is he made it through without playing a day of "select" baseball. I grew up in LL as there wasn't such a thing growing up. These "select" teams were atrocious (sp) as the kids played up to a hundred games a season, parents were the type we see on dateline, blowing up, etc. It wasn't a game to them, probably due to the financial burden taken on and parent's living their dreams through the kids. After reading some of the posts on here, it seems there are a lot of these "select" parents here in the HS ranks. I've read whining about coaches, playing time, a sick amount of bragging, "my kid this," "my kid that."

I just don't want my kid or myself to have to deal with whiny, unruly, idiotic parents who swear their kid is the best thing since Nolan Ryan. We had a summer like that last year and it was dreadful going to games. It was a LL team that travelled in the area. It is nice to see advice to whiny parents on here to tell the kids to suck it up as that is the rule I've always followed as it teaches life lessons, but for every bit of that advice given, there is a lot of whining going on.

Little league was a blast for me and my kids in general as there was no burnout, and we played at the sandlot when there weren't games going on. Ya never see a kid with a bat and glove hanging off of the handlebars of a bike anymore, it seems that a kids talent is guaged by how much money mommy and daddy have.

I hope I'm done with these type of parents. What should I expect in the HS ranks now a days?

Did you come on here just to slam travel ball? It's too bad your travel experience was horrible. I've found my son's experience and mine as a coach to be mostly positive. The problems I dealt with as a coach in travel were the same I experienced in LL. If a LL all-star team went travel in our area they would have trouble winning games. In 13U my team beat the regions BRWS representative 17-4. In 14U we beat the bordering state's LL Jr's state champion 22-3.

Today it was a Junior Legion dad (rec ball) who showed up at the varsity high school game to make a horse's behind of himself telling us how his son would be the staff ace next year as a freshman. Given one freshman has made varsity in the history of the program and his kid throws 70 in 8th grade we were all quite amused. His kid is a good Junior Legion pitcher. That's nice given all the most talented players play travel ball. The freshman who made varsity plays travel ball. The only sophs I know of who made varsity in the past ten years play(ed) travel ball.

"It is nice to see advice to whiny parents on here to tell the kids to suck it up as that is the rule I've always followed as it teaches life lessons, but for every bit of that advice given, there is a lot of whining going on."

A lot of the advice is coming from parents and coaches of travel ball players.

CUJAYS34
New Member,

Now that you Slammed 3/4 of the people here on the HSBBW, Welcome to the best baseball site for Parent's on the Web.

Your right, it would be nice to go back to simplier times and just play on the corner sandlot.
Hoping some rogue scout comes driving by and see's something that he's interested in. Good Luck with that approach.

I know what works, and I wouldn't change are approach to baseball for anything.

EH

Traveling around the state for 6 years with my son, at a ballfield every weekend doing double headers, meeting folks that we have played with over the years show up on college teams we play against.

I would not trade those years and that time with my son for anything the world has to offer.

Some of the most enjoyable times that my wife and I have spent together were the days and years of travel baseball.

Posted March 10, 2009 06:28 PM Hide Post
CUJays34;

Pretend your a pro scout. Watch the game from different angles. Two innings in RF corner; one inning behind 1b; two innings behind home plate;two innings past 3b and down the line.

Wear sunglasses and a straw hat, stop watch with cord hanging 2 "below the right pants pocket. Also have a tape recorder or note book.

That will be 7 innings and the game is over. No one will talk to you.

This was the story of a father, when his son played on our 1994 Goodwill Series teams in Japan. The son later played 10 years in the Major Leagues.

Bob

Great idea, make em wonder what you're up to.

Your right, it would be nice to go back to simplier times and just play on the corner sandlot.
Hoping some rogue scout comes driving by and see's something that he's interested in. Good Luck with that approach.

Now I know I saw professional baseball 30 years ago before "select" ball.

Now that you Slammed 3/4 of the people here on the HSBBW, Welcome to the best baseball site for Parent's on the Web.

Not my intention, just tired of pretentious parents that seem to come out of the woodwork with "select" leagues. Thanks for the welcome.

Some of the most enjoyable times that my wife and I have spent together were the days and years of travel baseball.

I/we have the same memories of the sandlots with mine.

Thanks for the welcome and congrats will be passed onto the kid. I'll be tapping into some of the knowledge of steps through the processes if the talent and desire warrants. Good luck everyone with the up coming season and stop by for a beer if you're in town for the CWS!

WOW, so what was your point of posting?

Oh to brag about your son making freshmne team?

To insult people?

Just didnt get the point of your post

How about , hello everyone , my son made the freshmen team, we havent done any travel ball,just didnt think it was right for my family,I have a hard time with some of the baseball parents I come across,etc etc etc,.

fan

kind of wondered that myself. he's new, it'll come around.

cujay

congrats to your son. good luck to you.

CUJAYS34,
Sports are unique, there seems to be a "place" for everyone. There is a team for the rich, the poor, the talented, and the true beginner. Some parents spend money, some spend time, some spend both time and money while some spend neither and stay at home. It's whatever "works" for you. I could complain about the parents that spends very little time and/or money on their kid allowing them to wither away in some weed and rodent infested sandlot or I could complain about the affluent parent that seeks out the "highly select" team flaunting money and aloofness as they go. I could complain about the parent that scrapes the budget bucket and spends what little they have (or don't have) on hitting lessons for their son. But WHY complain? There's not a right or wrong way to approach sports. Therefore it's pointless to criticize another's approach to the game. I could share with you what "worked" for me but that's not saying these are the "ways" to do it -- they're just options.
I've experienced different situations. My oldest son never played baseball --- never wanted to. I never went to any of his baseball games. I spent ZERO money on his baseball. I never complained to anyone about that, not even him. That worked for us.

My youngest son played the "best" baseball he he could find --- but it took my support both time and money. That also worked for us.

The next time you come to a fork in the road ---- Take it.
Fungo

There are pain the tail parents, egos, attitudes, envy, etc in any high level sporting endeavor. I always viewed it as a price that had to be paid in order to compete against the best competition. There is politics and all the bad stuff. The chance to play at the highest levels and the highest competition made it worth it. We got to travel, meet people, and see the country. It paid for my kids college. You can find the bad in anything if you look for it. We choose to find the best in things.

I grew up with LL and loved it. I still remember the LL oath.

I trust in god.
I love my country,
and will respect its laws.
I will play fair,
and strive to win,
but win or lose,
I will always do my best.

I tried to make my son and daughter play sports to have fun. I told them when it stops being fun, quit. If you are going to play, be the best you can be. It worked ok for us.

That choice is there for those who don't want travel or elite ball. However, even there you will deal with the politics and other stuff. My cure was to take my chair, my cigar, and go to the outfield or down the line. I would shut up and watch the game. It took me a while to learn to do that. The other stuff used to make me crazy.

Welcome to the site. It sounds like you are joining us bragging about our kids. "My son made varsity as a freshman." Mine did too last year so welcome to the boards and the bragging.
You say your son never played travel ball so I reckon he will have his eyes opened when he faces a 92 MPH fastball this year. The neat part of travel ball for us has been the people we have met, the places we have gone, the players we have played with, and no one locally will overwhelm my kids. They have seen the best, the fastest, the strongest and they don't live near us. I think there are some great things about local ball and we miss it some days but I don't miss my kid not being able to hit the fastball (I mean 90+), being able to say they played with or against the top recruits their age. If your kid has never played travel, he will have a rude awakening when he steps on the field against the best in high school.

Wheres TRhit when you need him?

What do you need me for---you guys are doing quite well on your own

Just agreeing with Jeff C. In state last year my son's travel team was 38-3 when we went, we played only travel teams at 14U-- fastest pitcher we saw maybe--maybe 80mph (schaumberg seminoles top 15U team in Il. my son pitched we won 5-2--had to brag a little). We went to the WWBC 14U and could not beleive the quality of teams there. Almost all the teams had pitchers in the 80+mph range our pitchers were low to mid 70s, our pitchers did ok though, and our fielding was as good as anyone, BUT we wern't used to that caliber (speed wise) of pitching, we went 1-4 all close games but it opened our eyes. This year before we go we will play up a year to face faster pitching before we go, hopefully do a little better.
My son dominated when he played rec. ball, at travel in Il. he's as good as anyone, but nationally he's got to keep working hard (year round) to compete.
If you don't play agianst the best you really don't realize how great of talent is out there.

Striving for the best will bring you closer to the best.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Connell:
Welcome to the site. It sounds like you are joining us bragging about our kids. "My son made varsity as a freshman." Mine did too last year so welcome to the boards and the bragging.
You say your son never played travel ball so I reckon he will have his eyes opened when he faces a 92 MPH fastball this year. The neat part of travel ball for us has been the people we have met, the places we have gone, the players we have played with, and no one locally will overwhelm my kids. They have seen the best, the fastest, the strongest and they don't live near us. I think there are some great things about local ball and we miss it some days but I don't miss my kid not being able to hit the fastball (I mean 90+), being able to say they played with or against the top recruits their age. If your kid has never played travel, he will have a rude awakening when he steps on the field against the best in high school.

Great post! My son played his first varsity game yesterday. He's the first soph (along with another and a freshman) to start opening day in six years. He roped a triple in his first at bat (walked other two AB's). When I asked him about it after the game he said the opposing high school ace wasn't as good as the top travel pitchers he faced in 16U last year.

The varsity hasn't had a soph start opening day in six years. This year there are two sophs and a freshman starting. No one remembers a freshman ever starting. The two sophs were the last cuts from a very senior dominated team last year. What do they have in common with each other and differentiating themselves from other players trying out? They played for top level travel teams and faced pitching that's better than many high school pitchers. Yesterday, the combined stats of the three were 4-7 with 2 walks.

Interesting conversations here....

I would suggest that high school stats and whether or not you play as a freshman are not the only barometers for success... touting these things here on these boards - I have no clue what that means... If 12 guys tried out for varsity, and you made it as a freshman does that mean you are better than some other freshman who tried out against 120 kids and managed to make his respective "freshman" team? Perhaps and perhaps not as things are relative...

I suggest encouraging your sons to elevate their respective teams as well. In other words, I believe true high school success is measured by how far your "team" advances in the state playoffs. Most state playoff formats are sudden death so the pressure to produce is much greater than a normal high school game or a high level summer travel game for that matter. As your team advances further along in the playoffs, you will start to encounter these "elite" players that many seem to insist are only found in the summertime.

quote:

As your team advances further along in the playoffs, you will start to encounter these "elite" players that many seem to insist are only found in the summertime.

These guys are there in high school too. They just may not be in your conference. Like you say, they show up in the playoffs. They also show up if the coach believes in a strong pre conference play, non-conference schedule.

I'm new to this site also and would just like to take a moment to say hi all, this is a great place to be.

I'm not gonna brag about my boy, he's 14 and playing the game he loves. He has played on LL, Major and senior, rec and travel. I can tell you this the money, which I to don't have, was well spent on travel 13U and 14U, called up for his bat. He holds his own pitching at both those levels and also pitched on a 15u this past summer for a couple of rec games. Those teams did not hold a candel to his 13u travel team and he dominated on the mound (ok so I'm bragging a little)

My point being there are plenty of programs to be involved in and different calibers all over this country, that is why this site is so great, one areas rec team is another areas travel team. Daddy ball is daddy ball with some exceptions. No right way or wrong way, talent is talent, play against the best and you either rise to the occasion or go home in a bag. HS is no different and the parents all the same. I will find out soon enough, his tryouts begin on the 23rd and with all the time and effort he has put in with his travel team all winter he should do well. He would not have had any conditioning, BP, or throwing if he only played rec ball, so yea travel is gonna help him hopefully make his HS team.

I sit in the stands chat with some parents, and when some one tells me how well my kid is doing, or how poorly, I offer my scripted response "well HE works really hard at it and loves the game" My point being he does all the work and he plays the game, I am just a fan so go pat him on the back when it's over.

CUJAYS34 I hope only the best for you and your son, congrats on making the team...... Parents at all levels of play that I have been involved with run the gamut of quiet to my son rules, even at seven years old they had them pegged for a MLB contract. I suggest you find where you fit and hang with that group, just look around the field you will see each in thier own little spots.... Booster club, book readers only their to say they were, the behind the backstop coaches group ect ect ect......., you get the picture it's up to you to decide where you will watch from and what type of parent you will be.

Techniquedad - great post and welcome to the hsbbweb

Thanks for the advice all. We are pretty lucky to live in Omaha, (During the Summer) as winter pretty much blows. There were about 70 kids that tried out for the 16 spots available. (for those that commented)

This summer, his school hosts one of the tournaments during the CWS, so that should be fun and there are a plethora of camps in the midwest. I may get him involved in one if he feels it will help.

Again, thanks for the welcome and congrats and good luck this season.

I am also in Omaha with a son who is a high school junior. My other sons are not high school age yet. I have to respectfully disagree with your characterization of parents of 'select' team players. My oldest son played little league through his 12 year old season. At 13 he played on a select team. The other boys played little league through their Farm 8 seasons and have played select ball from that time. The amount and quality of coaching our oldest received in that one year was vastly superior to anything he learned in little league. In fact, the little league coaching he received in Omaha was atrocious at best. That is the problem with little league. You may get a dad who is very qualified, or you might have someone who is in way over his head. The league is at the mercy of whoever is willing to volunteer. This led to our decision to pull our younger boys when they hit their 9 year old season.

The parents we have met at both the select and high school level have been wonderful. We have not experienced any more unruliness or bragging from select parents than we did in little league. In fact, I would say that at all levels we have made great friends and have seen mostly good from parents. What I've seen more of is parents that seem to have a chip on their shoulder over the fact that I have decided to allow my kids to try out for select teams. I'm not really sure why they get so bent out of shape about it. Our thought process is that if our kids want to play baseball we should provide them with good coaching, better competition, and a chance to actually get some games in. None of our kids is playing 100 games in a season so I can't comment on that, but they are certainly getting more than the 15 games they would get in little league. Sure, a kid who has only played little league has a shot at playing high school ball, but if you look at the better teams in the Omaha metro, the vast majority of those kids played on select teams. Congratulations to your son and best of luck this season. I hope your experience is as wonderful as ours has been so far.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Connell:
Welcome to the site. It sounds like you are joining us bragging about our kids. "My son made varsity as a freshman." Mine did too last year so welcome to the boards and the bragging.
You say your son never played travel ball so I reckon he will have his eyes opened when he faces a 92 MPH fastball this year. The neat part of travel ball for us has been the people we have met, the places we have gone, the players we have played with, and no one locally will overwhelm my kids. They have seen the best, the fastest, the strongest and they don't live near us. I think there are some great things about local ball and we miss it some days but I don't miss my kid not being able to hit the fastball (I mean 90+), being able to say they played with or against the top recruits their age. If your kid has never played travel, he will have a rude awakening when he steps on the field against the best in high school.

Great post! My son played his first varsity game yesterday. He's the first soph (along with another and a freshman) to start opening day in six years. He roped a triple in his first at bat (walked other two AB's). When I asked him about it after the game he said the opposing high school ace wasn't as good as the top travel pitchers he faced in 16U last year.

The varsity hasn't had a soph start opening day in six years. This year there are two sophs and a freshman starting. No one remembers a freshman ever starting. The two sophs were the last cuts from a very senior dominated team last year. What do they have in common with each other and differentiating themselves from other players trying out? They played for top level travel teams and faced pitching that's better than many high school pitchers. Yesterday, the combined stats of the three were 4-7 with 2 walks.

In Georgia, we don't normally see too many players start Varsity as a Frosh. It usually depends on the talent pool of the players that attend that HS. I have seen some programs where FROSH are put in as seniors have graduated the previous year and "they are building for the future". However, it sounds like your sons have the opportunity to show how Travel Ball has helped them to compete in HS at a very early age. Congratulations!!

I have coached in LL from Tee ball to seniors, city rec ball from 8u coed to 16u and helped (unofficially, more like waterboy)) coach my sons travel teams from 10U American to 14U national USSSA elite Champions at Disneyworld. We enjoyed all three, for different reasons. When the travel team tried to put a "No LL" rule in place because it was a waist of time I refused to go along with it. What was funny was my son prefered the LL because it was FUN, his real school friends, losing was OK, a few great neighborhood rivalries, but no real pressure. I explained that as proud as my kid was to wear the Travel team colors, they were making it almost Job like, and these kids were to young to work. I know a few kids that burnt out before High School even hit.
The rec league was the best, change positions every inning, bat til you hit, pure joy of playing the game, the closest to my era "sandlot" games where you decide who gets first picks by who's hand ends up on the top of the bat (remember that).
Anyway, my point is all levels of youth baseball are equally important in the development of your child, don't downplay any of them. Natural tools and talent still come first and a good coaching staff will recognize them. Even if there not honed to "Travel Ball" perfection...

Diamond Dog, I could not agree with you more on LL. My son's team made it to state at age 10, was the best summer he ever had, jacked his first HR too. He did not do travel until age 15. I wouldn't trade those years for anything, most of the boys he played against long ago left baseball, but went on to other sports. He got to know most of the 2010 and 2009 boys in our county. Its fun to see where they go and to read about them in the newspapers.

One of the posts referenced promoting travel ball was mine. I believe the benefit of travel ball starts at 13U when the kids hit the 60/90 field. Before that it doesn't matter where a kid plays. My son played LL. The prospective all-stars played in a travel Sunday doubleheader league in 11U and 12U. 11U and 12U didn't help my son become a high school player. It helped the all-star team play in to August twice. It was a great time.

quote:

Originally posted by RJM:
One of the posts referenced promoting travel ball was mine. I believe the benefit of travel ball starts at 13U when the kids hit the 60/90 field. Before that it doesn't matter where a kid plays. My son played LL. The prospective all-stars played in a travel Sunday doubleheader league in 11U and 12U. 11U and 12U didn't help my son become a high school player. It helped the all-star team play in to August twice. It was a great time.

RJM:

I agree whole heartedly. Up until 12U in LL it helped them to play multiple positions as well. However, it was also around the time the boys began to mature. That is something I won't soon forget either. As they say, "man child" and you can understand when some of these kids hit a growth spurt! During that time I also remember my son standing out! We also found out that during the August tourneys it seemed that the more competition he faced, the better he played so I wanted to make sure to get him into a position to be pushed and found that LL could not do that. I also got tired of Daddy Ball. So we decided to take him to Travel Ball. Fortunately for us, our son only played one season where a Dad had a player on the team.

My point in this was that long ago, we had three divisions in LL. Minors 8-10 year olds, Majors (11-13) year olds, Seniors were 13-15 year olds. As you went up the rung, you were always playing against kids older than you and that's how you became better. Also, playing ALL day EVERY day during the summer with no coaches, the ability to resolve issues on the field amongst each other seemed to teach more life lessons moreso than the current structures do. Kids seem OVERALL as having a sense of entitlement, getting ribbons for 10th place etc. Travel ball seems also to be just watered down LL. There are at least 20-30 just in our area and only because they are not tied to an organization, they call it travel. I'm not here to bash it, just wondered what happened to playing the game for pure joy and not for what or where it can get you.

CU,
You are correct that there are too many select teams in this area. That is killing the little leagues by pulling more and more kids out thereby reducing the talent level across the board. There are handful of organizations that will generally field pretty competitive teams and then a slew of other teams where someone just decided to put together their own team which may or may not have much talent.
I would also agree that it is sad that the days of kids playing in the park with their friends has become nearly extinct. I say nearly because my boys spend many summer afternoons with their friends in the yard playing baseball. The trees are bases and they use a wiffle ball but they will play for hours with no adult intervention. There are no coaches and if there are arguments they handle them. I would say that the lessons they learn in their play time are just as important as what they learn at the ball field, but they do get different things from both and I believe both are beneficial.

Mine son is still in high school, soph, but have travelled extensivly for 6 0r 7 years, travel ball, showcases, etc. Met some great folks and have benefited with father/son time and lots of memories.
I hate to let the cat out of the bag, but my way of avoiding confrontation and parental misbehavior was I always look for a place away, down the lines, and lite up a churchill Monte Cristo cigar. When you do that only great people approach me, because scouts want to know if I have another one, young women come up and smell the aroma and inform me that 'smell" reminds them of their Dad, Grandpa, (very good feelings). Other Dad's who like to puff a cigar at a ballgame come join me, and the conversation is lite and enjoyable.Plus it keeps me away from embarassing myself, as no one can hear me, especially my son, so I have some great conversations with my alter/ego.
Unfortunately the game ends and some Mommy informs me about me being a bad example, or it is illegal, or that I just plain stink! But, I have used the cigar man logic and reply "it is illegal to puff on my cigar way down here by the foul pole? her reply would be a very radical, YES IT IS, well the comeback is it's just ashame they DO allow cheap perfume at the park.
Try it, and maybe we'll meet at some event, Jupiter, Ft Meyer, who knows. Sometimes I do just chew on it, depends if there seems to be an army of hostile looking mommys.
The best of times, my boy playing the game he loves, and a Monte Cristo curling blueish smoke to the baseball gods.

*** My point in this was that long ago, we had three divisions in LL. Minors 8-10 year olds, Majors (11-13) year olds, Seniors were 13-15 year olds. As you went up the rung, you were always playing against kids older than you and that's how you became better. ***

Now kids become batter by playing against very talented kids their own age from a wide area. When my son filled in on a 16U community travel team he didn't think the pitching was any better than the 13U studs he faced in USSSA Majors semi-finals and finals.

*** Also, playing ALL day EVERY day during the summer with no coaches, the ability to resolve issues on the field amongst each other seemed to teach more life lessons moreso than the current structures do. ***

This day has passed. Get over it.

*** Kids seem OVERALL as having a sense of entitlement, getting ribbons for 10th place etc. ***

Blame the parents. Blame rec ball. Find the right travel team and it doesn't exist.

*** Travel ball seems also to be just watered down LL. There are at least 20-30 just in our area and only because they are not tied to an organization, they call it travel. ***

It doesn't really matter where a preteen plays as long as he's having fun. If it bothers you to hear the parents of Johnnie Mediocre brag he plays travel, tune it out. He won't be playing and the parents won't be at the fields in a few years.

*** I'm not here to bash it, ***

Yes you are,

*** just wondered what happened to playing the game for pure joy and not for what or where it can get you.***

Whether rec ball when he was younger, travel or school ball I don't think my son has ever played baseball for any other reason than it's fun.

Once playing high school varsity if a kid has tools to potentially take him further he would be insane not to play where he can get exposure to the next level.