What is a good HS hitters stats in your area?

Ja'Crispy posted:

I was talking to my son about this.  He has some friends from a neighboring state who are putting up good stats for this HS season so far, 500 + avg, 2 HRs, 1 3b, 6 2b. That got me thinking since all HS stats are relative to your competition what would be good hitting stats in different parts of the country? Around Chicago we have big number of pretty good players if you had a 400+ average you are tearing it up. I would imagine in some places down south or in southern California if you were 300+ you are a beast.

I think it all depends on the conference/district level of competition.  For example, a player at 1A (small population school) isn't likely to face a lot of superior pitching no matter where that 1A school is - north south east or west.  

Why don't you just go to Maxpreps and see for yourself? Use this link and you should be able to break down any area in the country, assuming they submit stats to MaxPreps.

http://www.maxpreps.com/leader...age/stat-leaders.htm

Stats4Gnats posted:

Why don't you just go to Maxpreps and see for yourself? Use this link and you should be able to break down any area in the country, assuming they submit stats to MaxPreps.

http://www.maxpreps.com/leader...age/stat-leaders.htm

 

Just an exercise in fun to see what other peoples opinion is.  The Max Prep numbers doesn't tell me if others think that number is legitimately good or not.  I just glanced at a couple of leaders from my area that I would question the competition.

based on MaxPreps, there's a kid at my son's 6A school that would be leading TX in home runs and in the top 10 in the nation, but our school doesn't report I guess.  I'm guessing the numbers on MaxPreps includes all tournaments and non-district games?

Stats4Gnats posted:

Why don't you just go to Maxpreps and see for yourself? Use this link and you should be able to break down any area in the country, assuming they submit stats to MaxPreps.

http://www.maxpreps.com/leader...age/stat-leaders.htm

 

Unfortunately Max Preps is hit and miss at best. Some schools upload/report everything, some schools only report a portion of their season games and other schools upload/report nothing at all (certainly wouldn't want the opponent to know prior to the game who the stud hitters on the team are...lol).

For example: My kid's team played 29 games this season and only 20 were uploaded to max-preps. They use gamechanger to score games and if the game is not on the max-preps schedule it can't be uploaded via gamechanger (I'm sure it actually can, but who wants to go thru all the steps necessary). Not to mention the 'scorers' of the games are a kid on the bench that's not playing and unfortunately they often have a hard time determining what a 'hit' is, what an 'error' is and who the error should be assigned to.

LOL

Our HS prohibits stat collecting and publishing.  The coach does not want people questioning why he keeps a batter in the lineup when he has one hit after 14 games.

generally, since every area is different, I look for BA & SLG that is 100-150 points above the average

stats after 20 AB's or 30 AB's are close to worthless. sample size issues...

In HS or other short seasons the only stats that matter are the eye test and metrics of talent.

We have one boy hitting over 500 with 2 swinging bunts, 2 pop ups in no mans land and 3 ground balls the saw the way into a hole...another one has hit a full handful on the button right at people and is batting .220. Who do you think is having a better season?

Ja'Crispy posted:

I was talking to my son about this.  He has some friends from a neighboring state who are putting up good stats for this HS season so far, 500 + avg, 2 HRs, 1 3b, 6 2b. That got me thinking since all HS stats are relative to your competition what would be good hitting stats in different parts of the country? Around Chicago we have big number of pretty good players if you had a 400+ average you are tearing it up. I would imagine in some places down south or in southern California if you were 300+ you are a beast.

Really, you answered your own question.  Competitive levels vary widely.  Typically, the few exceptional hitting stats in our area are put up by decent players in a very weak league.  On the flip side, we played a few teams in a recent tourney and their individual offensive stats were pedestrian.  It was because they came from some of the most competitive leagues in the region and faced top pitchers on a regular basis.  Their 7-8-9 hitters were likely better than that typical local guy in a weak league putting up big #s.

As Old School said, sample size and eye test are factors.  You really have to know the league and the level of pitching to put any meaning toward posted offensive stats.

Agree with Cabbage and Slugger that positive stats are near meaningless without knowing a lot about the level of competition of the particular high school. OTOH, I think some negative stats can be instructive -- like, striking out in 45% of your ABs is bad, no matter the level of competition.

DesertDuck posted:

Stats4Gnats posted:

Why don't you just go to Maxpreps and see for yourself? Use this link and you should be able to break down any area in the country, assuming they submit stats to MaxPreps.

http://www.maxpreps.com/leader...age/stat-leaders.htm

 

Unfortunately Max Preps is hit and miss at best. Some schools upload/report everything, some schools only report a portion of their season games and other schools upload/report nothing at all (certainly wouldn't want the opponent to know prior to the game who the stud hitters on the team are...lol).

For example: My kid's team played 29 games this season and only 20 were uploaded to max-preps. They use gamechanger to score games and if the game is not on the max-preps schedule it can't be uploaded via gamechanger (I'm sure it actually can, but who wants to go thru all the steps necessary). Not to mention the 'scorers' of the games are a kid on the bench that's not playing and unfortunately they often have a hard time determining what a 'hit' is, what an 'error' is and who the error should be assigned to.

LOL

For some reason, in half of our games, the opposing team always gets 1 more run and we get 1 less run than what we scored.  I know for a fact that we score correctly, as nobody but the coaches score, while other teams usually have an overly enthusiastic parent score.  I've seen a scoring issue at almost every basketball game where the crowd goes nuts on and on over a 2 point difference between the scoreboard score and the "fan" score.  State associations should make it necessary to have an official scorer (usually a ref/ump) at every game just taking scores and uploading it to MP.  

I realize that you are going to face different talent levels in HS and drilling down you can usually find the answer to the really high numbers.  If you play in a league that has Jesus, Mary, and Joseph Christian Academy you will probably see a lot more 75 mph straight fast balls than if you always face a huge public HS that has 100 kids come out for baseball. I think people who see enough HS games around where they live have a number in their head that if your neighbor said Johnny Smith in the next town over was hitting 450 it may peak your interest to look up how he is doing in games.  For some it may be 300,400,500 or even 600. My interest is in more of a survey of what level of numbers would get someone to want to drill down deeper. Just a curious diversion from boring work things popping up at work.

I know HS stats really mean very little, I don't even look at my S stats.  I look at how his ABs go and how he is swinging.

Small school/large school is a big difference to me. Lack of depth in pitching, lineups and defense overall in smaller school conferences.

I"ll use our team (NW Ill county 4A) as an example. We are a pretty strong conference with typically 3-5 teams ranked in PBR Ill top 25. Our team alone has 3 pitchers to hit 90. Our best hitter I am guessing is around .400 with 4 HR's and numerous doubles. 2nd best hitter .375 (again guessing) 1 HR numerous doubles as well. Both 90plus EV's. After that, have a few guys around .300-.350 mostly singles and a few doubles scattered in. However, not uncommon for 4-5 guys in the lineup .250/.300.

old_school posted:

stats after 20 AB's or 30 AB's are close to worthless. sample size issues...

In HS or other short seasons the only stats that matter are the eye test and metrics of talent.

This kind of response is how arguments about stats start. The OP wasn’t asking about how meaningful stats were or how accurate they were to predict what players would do in the future! All JA’CRISPY was asking for what was what people in the different parts of the country considered “good hitting stats”.

All anyone needs for that is to pick a metric, find the average for an area in that metric, determine what percentage above that is good, and then compare players to it. That hasn’t got a dang thing to do with predicting whether a player will get a ‘ship or get drafted. It’s purely about simple math because it can’t be done only by the eye test because it’s impossible to see every player in the country!

Since there is no mandatory national database for stats, I referred him to the largest one by far in the country. It definitely has its limits, but it’s the best available source for HS stats.

2018_Dad posted:

based on MaxPreps, there's a kid at my son's 6A school that would be leading TX in home runs and in the top 10 in the nation, but our school doesn't report I guess.  I'm guessing the numbers on MaxPreps includes all tournaments and non-district games?

The numbers include every game the coach puts in stats for. I put in every possible stat for every game in the season that isn’t a scrimmage, but most coaches don’t do that, and there’s no minimum requirement by MaxPreps. Coaches get to put in whatever they want.

DesertDuck posted:

Unfortunately Max Preps is hit and miss at best. Some schools upload/report everything, some schools only report a portion of their season games and other schools upload/report nothing at all (certainly wouldn't want the opponent to know prior to the game who the stud hitters on the team are...lol).

 All very true, especially the part about not wanting opponents to get any advantage from the stats.

 For example: My kid's team played 29 games this season and only 20 were uploaded to max-preps. They use gamechanger to score games and if the game is not on the max-preps schedule it can't be uploaded via gamechanger (I'm sure it actually can, but who wants to go thru all the steps necessary). Not to mention the 'scorers' of the games are a kid on the bench that's not playing and unfortunately they often have a hard time determining what a 'hit' is, what an 'error' is and who the error should be assigned to.

 LOL

 Actually, stats can NOT be entered for a game not on the schedule, nor can they be entered for a player not on the MP roster. MP only offers a free service. It’s completely up to coaches who they choose to keep score and what gets posted to MP.

 It can be a real PITA for someone who’s never gone through the process before, but I have to admit MP has made it a fairly simple process. Here’s an example using a brand new school.

 The HC has to contact MP. They will do everything they can to help him set up the admin stuff for his program. Once that stuff is in, the 1^st thing that has to be done is put players on the roster. If they include the player’s grade, the next year all they have to do is press a button and the roster for the new season will be made with all players except seniors. That means only new players have to be put on the roster. That’s pretty simple to me.

 The next thing that has to be done is to schedule games. That’s fairly simple as well, and something making it easier is, once a game is scheduled by either team, it shows up on the schedule for both teams.

 Entering the data is also a fairly painless effort, especially for anyone using a scoring app from a MP stat partner. See =====>  http://www.maxpreps.com/utilit...f6-bd82-ad088a41b17a

 All ya have to do is sign in, choose enter results, choose the game you want to enter stats for, put in the score and then import the data.

 Are there little glitches in any of the above? OF COURSE THERE ARE! But it’s free, pretty darn easy, and they have an 800 number with folks that will gladly help.

In Georgia, it's mandated that pitch count data is kept in MaxPreps. The GHSA sends a third official to each game to capture the pitch count data.

Other than that, some teams don't have any data available via the MaxPreps site. Some also have partial data entered into the site.  Our coach has loaded all of the season stats except our last game into MaxPreps. 

hshuler posted:

In Georgia, it's mandated that pitch count data is kept in MaxPreps. The GHSA sends a third official to each game to capture the pitch count data.

 How kool is it to have an actual official for that? I love it, but am afraid it’s an expensive way to do it. Do they send an official to Fr and JV games too? How much does that person get paid?

 Other than that, some teams don't have any data available via the MaxPreps site. Some also have partial data entered into the site.  Our coach has loaded all of the season stats except our last game into MaxPreps. 

 I think you’ll find that more and more teams will start using MP for their stats now that so many states require the pitches to go in.

 Kudos to Georgia!

I found it the information.

http://www.ghsa.net/sites/defa...tch_Count_Policy.pdf

Stats4Gnats posted:

I found it the information.

http://www.ghsa.net/sites/defa...tch_Count_Policy.pdf

 

Yep - you got it!

The state of Nebraska also mandates loading pitch count into Max Preps.  I think each coach is responsible for loading their own counts. 

We have 26 teams in Class A in Nebraska.  That is the largest class.  In order to be among the stats leaders in the state the last time they published you pretty much had to be .400 or above.  Because of the relatively small number of teams and that most of them are concentrated in the 2 main population centers 45 miles apart, we are all facing pretty much the same competition.  So in our case it is probably easier than most to get the true leaders based on stats.  Well, batting anyway. 

#3 overall 2015 pick (Rockies) never batted over .360 during his 4 years on Varsity... We were in the toughest, highest ranked district in Florida... During those 4 years, 2 years in a row a different team from our district won the 8A State Championship... A 3rd team was in the final-4 the next year but lost, and then last year a 4th different team made it to the championship game...

Everyday Dad posted:

I"ll use our team (NW Ill county 4A) as an example. We are a pretty strong conference with typically 3-5 teams ranked in PBR Ill top 25. Our team alone has 3 pitchers to hit 90. Our best hitter I am guessing is around .400 with 4 HR's and numerous doubles. 2nd best hitter .375 (again guessing) 1 HR numerous doubles as well. Both 90plus EV's. After that, have a few guys around .300-.350 mostly singles and a few doubles scattered in. However, not uncommon for 4-5 guys in the lineup .250/.300.

And you guys aren't the best hitting team in the conference. 

I would say anything above .400 is probably excellent.  I think our record holder is .442 set by a kid currently in the marlins organization.   .350+ really gets the job done.   

FYI: As far as recruiting goes , NCAA Baseball and Pro ball don't care about high school stats.

StrainedOblique posted:

FYI: As far as recruiting goes , NCAA Baseball and Pro ball don't care about high school stats.

 How do you think recruiters notice players in order to further evaluate them?

Stats4Gnats posted:

StrainedOblique posted:

FYI: As far as recruiting goes , NCAA Baseball and Pro ball don't care about high school stats.

 How do you think recruiters notice players in order to further evaluate them?

By height. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1M_8ByLMJQ

Best hitter is .491, with an OPS of 1.166. That's with 18 GP, 73 PA, 55 AB:  27 H, 23 1B's, 10 RBI's, 22 R, 13 W, 2 SO, 17 SB's (team total SB's 51).   This kid is a contact hitting machine vs almost any pitcher.  His batting stats are similar to his performance last HS season where he finished off at .450.  His summer club hitting avg was .440 after roughly 45 games played. Kid is 5'5, 150lb 2Bman, with good glove.  His hits always seem to drop, it's weird, it's like he has enough "power" to hit a hard liner that falls short of every outfielder.  He's productive, kid is an aberration, colleges are saying he's too small.  He'll make some college very happy.

The next best hitters are: .400, .388, .333, .293, .254  (These are the first 6 hitters in the lineup)  Team avg .284.

Eye site and sound test:  the .293, .254, .222 are the kids that hit the ball the hardest, have good fundamentals, and are excellent defensively, and all of them aspire to play in college.  Unfortunately their hits are just not dropping, The data sample of only 18 games played is small.  The .254 hitter is a Big Conference recruit, and  hopeful draft pick.  Teams throw him junk all the time, rarely sees a FB.  

The HS conference is in the Midwest with a mix of talent, from a top 93FB (Big 12 recruit), to a team with a top 84 FB kid with good command.  Pitching velocities are all over the place, and with the new pitch limits the coaches are throwing anybody to get through the game.  All teams facing same scenario, so equal playing field.  Best HS  team in conference has 2 Big 12 pitcher commits,   

The overwhelming majority of scouts/recruiters have relationships with local HS, travel, and showcase/camp organizers. Those local sources tell the scouts who that coach believes has potential to play at the next level; stats have nothing really to do with that - the recommending coaches understand what the scout/recruiter is looking for.

HS stats have tremendous meaning - to parents, players and to the HS coach; only the outlier - the kid hitting 30 HRs (eg) - would get a notice. And, the initial look on a kid like that (who had slipped his coaches notice despite hitting 30 dingers) would most likely be from an "assistant" (e.g., associate scout). No scout/recruiter would base his recruiting plan upon MAXPREPS.

The primary reason for that is the inconsistent talent levels and inconsistent score keeping. The former means that a hitter (eg) could be stymied by an opponents #1 pitcher (heading to the next level) but go 8 for 8 against the other pitchers who won't be moving in to the next level; the latter is self-explanatory - no recruiter/scout is making plans based upon the results of a parent scorekeeper.

Recruiting is not haphazard; every look is planned out in advance. And while a recruiter/scout watches a game to see certain players - ANYONE else who shows skills to succeed at the next level will get noted and asked about.

As a parent who had a kid whose local records may never be broken (decent player in an awful, small school league), I loved those stats, loved sorting MAXPREPS, loved fielding the calls from local reporters and reading the articles. But, it meant nothing to recruiters. Recruiters at the HS level are not looking for past results; they are looking for future projections which are really not related to HS results (for the most part).

Gov posted:

Best hitter is .491, with an OPS of 1.166. That's with 18 GP, 73 PA, 55 AB:  27 H, 23 1B's, 10 RBI's, 22 R, 13 W, 2 SO, 17 SB's (team total SB's 51).   This kid is a contact hitting machine vs almost any pitcher.  His batting stats are similar to his performance last HS season where he finished off at .450.  His summer club hitting avg was .440 after roughly 45 games played. Kid is 5'5, 150lb 2Bman, with good glove.  His hits always seem to drop, it's weird, it's like he has enough "power" to hit a hard liner that falls short of every outfielder.  He's productive, kid is an aberration, colleges are saying he's too small.  He'll make some college very happy.

The next best hitters are: .400, .388, .333, .293, .254  (These are the first 6 hitters in the lineup)  Team avg .284.

Eye site and sound test:  the .293, .254, .222 are the kids that hit the ball the hardest, have good fundamentals, and are excellent defensively, and all of them aspire to play in college.  Unfortunately their hits are just not dropping, The data sample of only 18 games played is small.  The .254 hitter is a Big Conference recruit, and  hopeful draft pick.  Teams throw him junk all the time, rarely sees a FB.  

The HS conference is in the Midwest with a mix of talent, from a top 93FB (Big 12 recruit), to a team with a top 84 FB kid with good command.  Pitching velocities are all over the place, and with the new pitch limits the coaches are throwing anybody to get through the game.  All teams facing same scenario, so equal playing field.  Best HS  team in conference has 2 Big 12 pitcher commits,   

Good information all. Very interesting to see what your opinions are. It kind of confirms what I am seeing around here.

It is funny you mention that the kid hitting .254 is getting nothing but junk.  I was telling my wife that this year with new pitch count rules and more pitchers being thrown I think coaches are telling their pitchers to not get beat by middle of the order hitters. Thus they throw them nothing but junk.  My Son has been frustrated by this all year and still takes his walks. He half jokingly wants to move in the order to see more fastballs.

Ja'Crispy posted:

Gov posted:

Best hitter is .491, with an OPS of 1.166. That's with 18 GP, 73 PA, 55 AB:  27 H, 23 1B's, 10 RBI's, 22 R, 13 W, 2 SO, 17 SB's (team total SB's 51).   This kid is a contact hitting machine vs almost any pitcher.  His batting stats are similar to his performance last HS season where he finished off at .450.  His summer club hitting avg was .440 after roughly 45 games played. Kid is 5'5, 150lb 2Bman, with good glove.  His hits always seem to drop, it's weird, it's like he has enough "power" to hit a hard liner that falls short of every outfielder.  He's productive, kid is an aberration, colleges are saying he's too small.  He'll make some college very happy.

The next best hitters are: .400, .388, .333, .293, .254  (These are the first 6 hitters in the lineup)  Team avg .284.

Eye site and sound test:  the .293, .254, .222 are the kids that hit the ball the hardest, have good fundamentals, and are excellent defensively, and all of them aspire to play in college.  Unfortunately their hits are just not dropping, The data sample of only 18 games played is small.  The .254 hitter is a Big Conference recruit, and  hopeful draft pick.  Teams throw him junk all the time, rarely sees a FB.  

The HS conference is in the Midwest with a mix of talent, from a top 93FB (Big 12 recruit), to a team with a top 84 FB kid with good command.  Pitching velocities are all over the place, and with the new pitch limits the coaches are throwing anybody to get through the game.  All teams facing same scenario, so equal playing field.  Best HS  team in conference has 2 Big 12 pitcher commits,   

Good information all. Very interesting to see what your opinions are. It kind of confirms what I am seeing around here.

It is funny you mention that the kid hitting .254 is getting nothing but junk.  I was telling my wife that this year with new pitch count rules and more pitchers being thrown I think coaches are telling their pitchers to not get beat by middle of the order hitters. Thus they throw them nothing but junk.  My Son has been frustrated by this all year and still takes his walks. He half jokingly wants to move in the order to see more fastballs.

Great point - good hitters will take their walks. Good hitters also understand their "hot zones" and can drive pitches that end up in those zone, regardless of pitch type. 

Goosegg posted:

… No scout/recruiter would base his recruiting plan upon MAXPREPS….

 Of course not, but to believe a player with crazy good numbers doesn’t get investigated is ludicrous. Projecting any amateur player from stats would be just as ludicrous because there’s no mandatory database for them like there is in pro ball.

How many AB's at this point in a season,  30 games total perhaps.  90 ABs.   Still a pretty small sample size if you ask me.   Scouts may see a guy hitting .500 and another hitting .330 and like the latter player better who perhaps has had some bad luck or was in an early season slump.  

old_school posted:

stats after 20 AB's or 30 AB's are close to worthless. sample size issues...

In HS or other short seasons the only stats that matter are the eye test and metrics of talent.

 Sure they’re worthless for projections of future success, but so are the eye tests for the most part. But I am interested in what “metrics of talent” are. Obviously there some kind of measurement being made which means there’s some kind of statistic.

 We have one boy hitting over 500 with 2 swinging bunts, 2 pop ups in no mans land and 3 ground balls the saw the way into a hole...another one has hit a full handful on the button right at people and is batting .220. Who do you think is having a better season?

 The boy hitting over .500 is doing a much better job for his team. What good does it do the team to have a player hitting balls right on the button but making outs?

Golfman25 posted:

Everyday Dad posted:

I"ll use our team (NW Ill county 4A) as an example. We are a pretty strong conference with typically 3-5 teams ranked in PBR Ill top 25. Our team alone has 3 pitchers to hit 90. Our best hitter I am guessing is around .400 with 4 HR's and numerous doubles. 2nd best hitter .375 (again guessing) 1 HR numerous doubles as well. Both 90plus EV's. After that, have a few guys around .300-.350 mostly singles and a few doubles scattered in. However, not uncommon for 4-5 guys in the lineup .250/.300.

And you guys aren't the best hitting team in the conference. 

I would say anything above .400 is probably excellent.  I think our record holder is .442 set by a kid currently in the marlins organization.   .350+ really gets the job done.   

not lately Golf. Number one guy hit another one, although other guys fading.

Everyday Dad posted:

Golfman25 posted:

Everyday Dad posted:

I"ll use our team (NW Ill county 4A) as an example. We are a pretty strong conference with typically 3-5 teams ranked in PBR Ill top 25. Our team alone has 3 pitchers to hit 90. Our best hitter I am guessing is around .400 with 4 HR's and numerous doubles. 2nd best hitter .375 (again guessing) 1 HR numerous doubles as well. Both 90plus EV's. After that, have a few guys around .300-.350 mostly singles and a few doubles scattered in. However, not uncommon for 4-5 guys in the lineup .250/.300.

And you guys aren't the best hitting team in the conference. 

I would say anything above .400 is probably excellent.  I think our record holder is .442 set by a kid currently in the marlins organization.   .350+ really gets the job done.   

not lately Golf. Number one guy hit another one, although other guys fading.

We're probably the worst fielding team in the conference LOL

Bolts-Coach-PR posted:

#3 overall 2015 pick (Rockies) never batted over .360 during his 4 years on Varsity... We were in the toughest, highest ranked district in Florida... During those 4 years, 2 years in a row a different team from our district won the 8A State Championship... A 3rd team was in the final-4 the next year but lost, and then last year a 4th different team made it to the championship game...

Brendan Rodgers... one of the smoothest players I've watched.

Stats4Gnats posted:

StrainedOblique posted:

FYI: As far as recruiting goes , NCAA Baseball and Pro ball don't care about high school stats.

 How do you think recruiters notice players in order to further evaluate them?

Pro ball scouts and NCAA RC's only care about what they see with their eyes.... HS stats don't tell you much about how a kid projects at next level.

If a hitter is hitting .450 in HS it doesn't mean he can hit in the ACC . Conversely , a kid who's hitting .280 in HS may project based on overall tools, mechanics, bat speed and approach for the draft.

A local kid from my area hit about .265 his senior year and batted 8th in the HS line up....He was selected in the 15th round of the 2016 MLB draft. He decided to honor his commitment to college. He is now the starting SS as a FRESHMAN at a SEC powerhouse.

Pitching is sort of the same. HS pitching lines don't say much. A kid can be 8-0 w/ a no-hitter in High School but if he's a RHP that tops out at 84 mph that isn't gonna play at the next level. Conversely , a RHP that sits 93 w/ a win loss record in HS of 2-7 projects at the NCAA or Pro ball level. Maybe the command isn't there yet but the arm is .

A kid w/ HS batting avg of .280 but runs a 6.6 is more attractive to an NCAA RC than a kid who hits .485 in HS but runs a 7.6