Every day we see news of college athletes being arrested or suspended for all sorts of violations
What is happening to them?
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Maybe if we stopped spending countless hours blogging on HOW BIG IS YOUR HS roster we could really get into a good discussion like the one you just presented.
There are many kids today and I have witnessed it first hand watching my kids go through highschool whose paretns allow them to drink and smoke-- as long as they are not driving. Even in their own homes.
There are many kids who are held accountable to nothing in school, as long as they pass with a 2.0 and can be elgible to play their sport.
Now before all the parents of the good kids get on here and diatribe about how great their kids are, and how hard they work on thier grades and baseball (i have one of those also) but I watch as my sons HS team barely has a 2.0 GPA, my son and about three others keep it above that.The parents dont seem to understand that thats not going to cut it.
A lot of kids think everything is ok as long as they dont get caught. The standard is too low just as the post about NO child is left behind.There is another example of not holding people accountable.
Maybe we can use the excuse that their elders are getting away with illegal stuff so whats the big deal.
Maybe when they removed prayer in the schools? that should spark some reaction on this blog.Maybe because a lot of kids today have no higher power to look up to for their accountability.
Maybe baseball was too high a priority and not enough time was spent on community service, helping the elders, feeding the homeless, learning to help others besides yourself.
Look at the world we live in. OJ Simpson probably got away with murder and now his girlfriend is found beaten up. A Heisman trophy athlete, does that make him above the law? Barry Bonds Purjured himself in front of the grandjury, is he above the law?
Kids watch movies, listen to music with murder,rape,crime, sick crimes watch a current episode of law and order, the lines between right and wrong are becoming blurry to a lot of the youth.Girls are being date raped every day, and not having *** in HS is not the norm.
The sitting down to dinner as a family at least three to four times a week where has that gone with the hustle and bustle of getting our kids to three sports and special lessons. all of a sudden their 18 and on their own. Did we spend enought time getting to know their HEARTS,who they are as people, what they believe and why? is there a foundation for them to rely on whatever that is for us its Chrisianity and that doesnt guarantee our kids will make great choices either.
Are they angry and why? are they happy insides themselves at the core of who they are and if not why?Do they have something to believe in that is bigger than themselves and their own goals.This subject will def. bring a lot of heated discussion, but I will enjoy seeing peoples reacions. Much better spent time then HOW big is your team.
There are many kids today and I have witnessed it first hand watching my kids go through highschool whose paretns allow them to drink and smoke-- as long as they are not driving. Even in their own homes.
There are many kids who are held accountable to nothing in school, as long as they pass with a 2.0 and can be elgible to play their sport.
Now before all the parents of the good kids get on here and diatribe about how great their kids are, and how hard they work on thier grades and baseball (i have one of those also) but I watch as my sons HS team barely has a 2.0 GPA, my son and about three others keep it above that.The parents dont seem to understand that thats not going to cut it.
A lot of kids think everything is ok as long as they dont get caught. The standard is too low just as the post about NO child is left behind.There is another example of not holding people accountable.
Maybe we can use the excuse that their elders are getting away with illegal stuff so whats the big deal.
Maybe when they removed prayer in the schools? that should spark some reaction on this blog.Maybe because a lot of kids today have no higher power to look up to for their accountability.
Maybe baseball was too high a priority and not enough time was spent on community service, helping the elders, feeding the homeless, learning to help others besides yourself.
Look at the world we live in. OJ Simpson probably got away with murder and now his girlfriend is found beaten up. A Heisman trophy athlete, does that make him above the law? Barry Bonds Purjured himself in front of the grandjury, is he above the law?
Kids watch movies, listen to music with murder,rape,crime, sick crimes watch a current episode of law and order, the lines between right and wrong are becoming blurry to a lot of the youth.Girls are being date raped every day, and not having *** in HS is not the norm.
The sitting down to dinner as a family at least three to four times a week where has that gone with the hustle and bustle of getting our kids to three sports and special lessons. all of a sudden their 18 and on their own. Did we spend enought time getting to know their HEARTS,who they are as people, what they believe and why? is there a foundation for them to rely on whatever that is for us its Chrisianity and that doesnt guarantee our kids will make great choices either.
Are they angry and why? are they happy insides themselves at the core of who they are and if not why?Do they have something to believe in that is bigger than themselves and their own goals.This subject will def. bring a lot of heated discussion, but I will enjoy seeing peoples reacions. Much better spent time then HOW big is your team.
I think this is another example of what is wrong.
University of Indiana basketball coach - Kelvin Sampson - resigns because of recruiting violations. He was paid $700,000 to resign.
What happened to "you broke the rules, you broke your contract and you are a bad example of what we want for our institution. I wish you the best of luck in the future but your services are no longer needed." End of story.
Mistake #1 - IU hired a guy who was in trouble while at Oklahoma for recruiting violations
Mistake #2 - Dragging this out
Mistake #3 - Allowing Sampson to leave on his terms
The man broke the rules and then didn't care and broke more rules. Now his players are trying to defend him. They protested by some of them not showing up for practice under the interim coach.
Yeah, these kids learned a great message - break the rules and then quit so you can get paid.
University of Indiana basketball coach - Kelvin Sampson - resigns because of recruiting violations. He was paid $700,000 to resign.
What happened to "you broke the rules, you broke your contract and you are a bad example of what we want for our institution. I wish you the best of luck in the future but your services are no longer needed." End of story.
Mistake #1 - IU hired a guy who was in trouble while at Oklahoma for recruiting violations
Mistake #2 - Dragging this out
Mistake #3 - Allowing Sampson to leave on his terms
The man broke the rules and then didn't care and broke more rules. Now his players are trying to defend him. They protested by some of them not showing up for practice under the interim coach.
Yeah, these kids learned a great message - break the rules and then quit so you can get paid.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
What happened to "you broke the rules, you broke your contract and you are a bad example of what we want for our institution. I wish you the best of luck in the future but your services are no longer needed." End of story.
Seth Davis explains why Indiana couldn't just fire him: so far, he hasn't been officially shown to have broken the rules. So IU was in a undesireable position, because eventually the NCAA would declare infractions, but they haven't yet. From the article:
"Remember, former Ohio State coach Jim O'Brien won a $2.5 million judgement because the school fired him in the midst of an NCAA investigation --- even though the NCAA later found the program guilty of committing major violations. "
Sampson's alleged violations are not "major", so IU would clearly be fiscally foolish to fire him. On the other hand, they really needed to get rid of him. Firing him would likely not have been the "end of story".
Seth Davis at SI.cnn.com
TR...this is a good topic for discussion.
As it has been said before, I'll reiterate the point. Too much emphasis on athletics!!!!!!!!!
I was as competitive a jock as anyone up until the age of 30. And I coached the same way. Gotta win all the time. At 30, I had my first significant injury that kept me off the field. I still went and watched my friends play, and what I saw was not pretty. Grown men almost coming to blows during games, guys taking out other guys when both guys had to go to work the next day. I had, well, an awakening. And I know it made me a better coach.
But we still have out of control coaches and parents who drill invincibility in the kids starting at an early age. Combines, showcases, good will games (what a joke), etc... Big business and $$$. Tell me that all these "scouting services and showcases and parents" aren't preying on people and sending a message to the kids that they are the most important things in the world. Then, with all that good guidance and upbringing, we release them to college with no real skills on how to be humble and how to thank GOD for the blessings that have been bestowed upon them.
Sorry for the rambling rant and incoherent argument. After I calm down a little, I'll repost.
As it has been said before, I'll reiterate the point. Too much emphasis on athletics!!!!!!!!!
I was as competitive a jock as anyone up until the age of 30. And I coached the same way. Gotta win all the time. At 30, I had my first significant injury that kept me off the field. I still went and watched my friends play, and what I saw was not pretty. Grown men almost coming to blows during games, guys taking out other guys when both guys had to go to work the next day. I had, well, an awakening. And I know it made me a better coach.
But we still have out of control coaches and parents who drill invincibility in the kids starting at an early age. Combines, showcases, good will games (what a joke), etc... Big business and $$$. Tell me that all these "scouting services and showcases and parents" aren't preying on people and sending a message to the kids that they are the most important things in the world. Then, with all that good guidance and upbringing, we release them to college with no real skills on how to be humble and how to thank GOD for the blessings that have been bestowed upon them.
Sorry for the rambling rant and incoherent argument. After I calm down a little, I'll repost.
3fingeredglove - thanks for clearing that up for me. I didn't realize some of the facts of the case. It was more complicated than I thought.
quote:Originally posted by larrythompson:
TR...this is a good topic for discussion.
As it has been said before, I'll reiterate the point. Too much emphasis on athletics!!!!!!!!!
I was as competitive a jock as anyone up until the age of 30. And I coached the same way. Gotta win all the time. At 30, I had my first significant injury that kept me off the field. I still went and watched my friends play, and what I saw was not pretty. Grown men almost coming to blows during games, guys taking out other guys when both guys had to go to work the next day. I had, well, an awakening. And I know it made me a better coach.
But we still have out of control coaches and parents who drill invincibility in the kids starting at an early age. Combines, showcases, good will games (what a joke), etc... Big business and $$$. Tell me that all these "scouting services and showcases and parents" aren't preying on people and sending a message to the kids that they are the most important things in the world. Then, with all that good guidance and upbringing, we release them to college with no real skills on how to be humble and how to thank GOD for the blessings that have been bestowed upon them.
Sorry for the rambling rant and incoherent argument. After I calm down a little, I'll repost.
Good points, LT.
At work it's the drive to perfection, the six-sigma thing. It is a nice goal to aspire to. We have the technology to measure it and get closer to it. But the human element is being engineered out of the picture. I see this competitive mentality in your observations while sitting out.
With six-sigma, I believe that all too often the wrong things are being measured. Perhaps also with your team, fun (the human element) has been engineered out for the sake of a W. At some point, life and living it has to be factored in.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Every day we see news of college athletes geing arrested or suspended for all sorts of violations
What is happening to them?
They grow up.
I could be quite wrong about this, but I believe that young collegiate and young professional athletes male and female have gotten themselves into trouble all along. Technology has affected the rate at which we receive information on such events.
Misinformation often times is dispensed at such a rapid rate that it is quite impossible to recover from.
It was possible back in the day to quietly sweep colorful events under the carpet, these days it just takes one person with a cell phone to photograph you, write an article about you (with or without sources) and have it to the editors desk and within minutes it can be part of tomorrows front page or within seconds on the internet.
In our society today the media usually chooses to highlight the negative and save the positive for those few "feel good" stories to fill space.
Misinformation often times is dispensed at such a rapid rate that it is quite impossible to recover from.
It was possible back in the day to quietly sweep colorful events under the carpet, these days it just takes one person with a cell phone to photograph you, write an article about you (with or without sources) and have it to the editors desk and within minutes it can be part of tomorrows front page or within seconds on the internet.
In our society today the media usually chooses to highlight the negative and save the positive for those few "feel good" stories to fill space.
quote:Originally posted by iheartbb:
I could be quite wrong about this, but I believe that young collegiate and young professional athletes male and female have gotten themselves into trouble all along. Technology has affected the rate at which we receive information on such events.
Misinformation often times is dispensed at such a rapid rate that it is quite impossible to recover from.
It was possible back in the day to quietly sweep colorful events under the carpet, these days it just takes one person with a cell phone to photograph you, write an article about you (with or without sources) and have it to the editors desk and within minutes it can be part of tomorrows front page or within seconds on the internet.
In our society today the media usually chooses to highlight the negative and save the positive for those few "feel good" stories to fill space.
While there are many other things to share the blame I think you have a very valid point here.
To add to what you have put I think news media has changed quite a bit which you pointed out that they choose to report the negative. They can make a career by breaking a huge story and today that is usually something negative. One of the first examples is Woodward and Bernstein who broke the whole Watergate scandel with Nixon.
Back in the day the news media used to help celebrities / politicians cover up things and report on the things that were blatently obvious. Example here is JFK and his extramarital affairs. He is remembered as one of the more popular presidents in our history yet he did the same stuff as Clinton. But because Clinton got caught he has a negative view.
I hope I haven't went off to far of a tangent here.
They are a reflection of where our culture, as a whole, has gone. Life today has little to do with the way it was growing up in the 60s and 70s. Things started to change in the 80s, IMO, and here we are.......
The best we can do is raise our own kids right, and then just hope for the best.
The best we can do is raise our own kids right, and then just hope for the best.
baseball isn't year round. missing supper might be from working too much and/or having too many "parent" activities too.
On the Kelvin Sampson situation: Very ugly. Very bad way to handle his resignation. He is really a disgrace to college athletics. Arrogant. more concerned about figuring away around the system and not getting caught than he was about abiding by the rules. Arrogant, self-centered man on one hand...and to the players, a father-figure. can't be both and we just found out why.
On the Kelvin Sampson situation: Very ugly. Very bad way to handle his resignation. He is really a disgrace to college athletics. Arrogant. more concerned about figuring away around the system and not getting caught than he was about abiding by the rules. Arrogant, self-centered man on one hand...and to the players, a father-figure. can't be both and we just found out why.
There are a lot of good points made here. I'm not sure that there is any one thing to blame or any one thing to bless.
It does seem that it is easier for the media to get these stories out there. What used to go on behind the barn stayed pretty close to the farm, perhaps only disclosed long after the fact, when the perpetrator was looking back, chuckling at the mistakes of his or her youth.
However, now, not only is misinformation dispensed at a rapid rate, but there is instantaneous self reporting of actual events as well (myspce, facebook, etc., as well as cell phones, e-mails and im's).
As one consequence of this self reporting, coaches, schools, and parents are being presented with stark evidence of behavior that can range from the silly to the criminal. Can, or should, they ignore that evidence when it comes to their attention?
To me the second and, in my opinion, more imortant consequence of the publication (by the individuals themselves, or by the media) of this information is the desensitizing effect it has. Not only does it suggest that "everyone is doing it", but it may change how those responsible (parents, coaches, schools, governing boards of frats and sororities, etc.) view how they should respond to those activities.
If such activities are no longer occurring behind the figurative barn - they are occurring right out for everyone to see. Those activities are potentially perceived no longer as taboo, dangerous, illegal, or shameful, but, instead, are viewed as cause for celebrity and celebration. At the very least, they are more likely to be considered a normal part of growing up, the normal way to get ahead. The coach thinks it is the parent's job to police their child, the parent wonders that if the coach isn't bothered by it, should they make it an issue?, schools are faced with deciding how far their authority extends or should extend.
My point being, that, back in the day when you took your youthful indiscretions behind the barn, there was an understanding that you were doing something wrong or forbidden. If caught, there were generally swift and concrete consequences attached to those activities. If you chose to engage in the behavior, you were also knowingly risking the consequences.
I'm not sure it is as clear today what it is that is considered to be wrong or forbidden, or, further, that there consequences attached. As much as the media (including self publication like myspace, facebook, etc.), publishes these events, and as much as we hear about the consequences, or lack of consequences, of the extreme cases, there is not nearly as much information of the consequences, if any, of the majority of such behavior. Does that mean that there is nothing wrong with the behavior, or just that we can't cope with the shear volume of it?
I clearly don't have any answers, but I am not sure that we should be ignoring these behaviors merely because they are becoming more commonplace and visible. The cat bringing the dead bird to your doorstep may be a sign of affection on the part of the cat. To me, the posting and publication, especially self publication, of indiscretions should be viewed as a call for help, or at least a call for intervention.
I do recognize that variables such as age, seriousness of the action, effect on others, should dictate the response.
The best way that I can figure to deal with it in our family is not only to reinforce respect for self and respect for others, but to help our kids think about the potential consequences of actions. This involves long term abstract thinking that isn't fully developed until the mid 20's.
One of the most concrete ways I have of doing that is to remind them that, if it is not something they would not want me to know about, a) they shouldn't do it; b) they certainly should not write about it or post photos about it on the web!
No easy answers here, and no one is immune. Even the best of kids do stupid things.
It does seem that it is easier for the media to get these stories out there. What used to go on behind the barn stayed pretty close to the farm, perhaps only disclosed long after the fact, when the perpetrator was looking back, chuckling at the mistakes of his or her youth.
However, now, not only is misinformation dispensed at a rapid rate, but there is instantaneous self reporting of actual events as well (myspce, facebook, etc., as well as cell phones, e-mails and im's).
As one consequence of this self reporting, coaches, schools, and parents are being presented with stark evidence of behavior that can range from the silly to the criminal. Can, or should, they ignore that evidence when it comes to their attention?
To me the second and, in my opinion, more imortant consequence of the publication (by the individuals themselves, or by the media) of this information is the desensitizing effect it has. Not only does it suggest that "everyone is doing it", but it may change how those responsible (parents, coaches, schools, governing boards of frats and sororities, etc.) view how they should respond to those activities.
If such activities are no longer occurring behind the figurative barn - they are occurring right out for everyone to see. Those activities are potentially perceived no longer as taboo, dangerous, illegal, or shameful, but, instead, are viewed as cause for celebrity and celebration. At the very least, they are more likely to be considered a normal part of growing up, the normal way to get ahead. The coach thinks it is the parent's job to police their child, the parent wonders that if the coach isn't bothered by it, should they make it an issue?, schools are faced with deciding how far their authority extends or should extend.
My point being, that, back in the day when you took your youthful indiscretions behind the barn, there was an understanding that you were doing something wrong or forbidden. If caught, there were generally swift and concrete consequences attached to those activities. If you chose to engage in the behavior, you were also knowingly risking the consequences.
I'm not sure it is as clear today what it is that is considered to be wrong or forbidden, or, further, that there consequences attached. As much as the media (including self publication like myspace, facebook, etc.), publishes these events, and as much as we hear about the consequences, or lack of consequences, of the extreme cases, there is not nearly as much information of the consequences, if any, of the majority of such behavior. Does that mean that there is nothing wrong with the behavior, or just that we can't cope with the shear volume of it?
I clearly don't have any answers, but I am not sure that we should be ignoring these behaviors merely because they are becoming more commonplace and visible. The cat bringing the dead bird to your doorstep may be a sign of affection on the part of the cat. To me, the posting and publication, especially self publication, of indiscretions should be viewed as a call for help, or at least a call for intervention.
I do recognize that variables such as age, seriousness of the action, effect on others, should dictate the response.
The best way that I can figure to deal with it in our family is not only to reinforce respect for self and respect for others, but to help our kids think about the potential consequences of actions. This involves long term abstract thinking that isn't fully developed until the mid 20's.
One of the most concrete ways I have of doing that is to remind them that, if it is not something they would not want me to know about, a) they shouldn't do it; b) they certainly should not write about it or post photos about it on the web!
No easy answers here, and no one is immune. Even the best of kids do stupid things.
Good post P&C mom. The problem is not "athletic" in nature. It permeates every aspect of society. There needs to be a clearer understanding of what is right and what is wrong. Many people have a problem standing up and expressing their feelings about what they know to be right or wrong for fear of offending others. I think the benchmarks on accepted behavior are established by ALL members of society (not just judges, police officers, preachers and teachers) --- and we are part of that society. YOU and I set the benchmarks. If you don't want to participate in setting those benchmarks by expressing yourself then you have no right to complain. If you ignore the fact that your neighbor is doing bad things then you should not be surprised if your child does the same thing.
Some promote "It takes a village to raise a child"
---- You may disagree but you cannot keep the "village" from influenceing your children. So, how in the world can you allow the villagers to raise your child then shy away from telling the village how they should be doing it? 
Fungo
Some promote "It takes a village to raise a child"
---- You may disagree but you cannot keep the "village" from influenceing your children. So, how in the world can you allow the villagers to raise your child then shy away from telling the village how they should be doing it? Fungo
Just deleted the last post. Please lets not go there. Thanks.
These are all extremely well-thought and well-written thoughts on what the heck is going on. I'd like to add my thoughts to the mix.
I think a lot of it has to do with what P&CMom said--
There don't seem to be many consequences anymore---and it doesn't just start when kids grow up to be in college. It isn't happening in the grade schools, either. I know I'm dating myself when I remember the days of writing 1000 times--in perfect cursive--after school--"I will not (insert bad thing)". Teachers' hands are tied when it comes to "punishing" kids for actions that used to be punishable, either because the parents will threaten a lawsuit, or because the administration won't back them up. I've seen it. At least this happens in my area area. Not just in the public schools, either, but in the Catholic schools, which used to be hallmarks for "discipline". Perhaps they believe if they come down too hard (or not at all) on a kid, the parents will take them out of the school and there goes tuition money (or state-funded), which they desperately need. And so, when kids are allowed to get away with stuff when they are younger, it emboldens them to do bad or inappropriate stuff because they know they will get away with it as they get older.
And many parents are afraid to "punish" kids for fear of the kids running to DCFS, or them not being their "friend" anymore. I'm not talking about corporal punishment, either. My husband and I are the "worst" parents in the world because we have clear ideas of what our kids can and cannot do. We are just so mean. My favorite words are "no"--as in "no you're not"---and an equally favorite word is "yes"--as in "oh yes you are...or oh yes you do". I'm talking about our younger kids, now. I hope we did a good enough job with the older ones that they don't engage in (any more--they aren't "perfect") stupid stuff. As P&CMom said, "Even the best of kids do stupid things." And the best (or worst) of parents have good kids who do stupid things.
But, of course, not all college athletes do stupid things, the majority don't. Not all high school or grade school kids do stupid things. Not all members of society do stupid things. Just a few...but they can make life unpleasant for the rest of us.
I think a lot of it has to do with what P&CMom said--
quote:... back in the day when you took your youthful indiscretions behind the barn, there was an understanding that you were doing something wrong or forbidden. If caught, there were generally swift and concrete consequences attached to those activities. If you chose to engage in the behavior, you were also knowingly risking the consequences.
There don't seem to be many consequences anymore---and it doesn't just start when kids grow up to be in college. It isn't happening in the grade schools, either. I know I'm dating myself when I remember the days of writing 1000 times--in perfect cursive--after school--"I will not (insert bad thing)". Teachers' hands are tied when it comes to "punishing" kids for actions that used to be punishable, either because the parents will threaten a lawsuit, or because the administration won't back them up. I've seen it. At least this happens in my area area. Not just in the public schools, either, but in the Catholic schools, which used to be hallmarks for "discipline". Perhaps they believe if they come down too hard (or not at all) on a kid, the parents will take them out of the school and there goes tuition money (or state-funded), which they desperately need. And so, when kids are allowed to get away with stuff when they are younger, it emboldens them to do bad or inappropriate stuff because they know they will get away with it as they get older.
And many parents are afraid to "punish" kids for fear of the kids running to DCFS, or them not being their "friend" anymore. I'm not talking about corporal punishment, either. My husband and I are the "worst" parents in the world because we have clear ideas of what our kids can and cannot do. We are just so mean. My favorite words are "no"--as in "no you're not"---and an equally favorite word is "yes"--as in "oh yes you are...or oh yes you do". I'm talking about our younger kids, now. I hope we did a good enough job with the older ones that they don't engage in (any more--they aren't "perfect") stupid stuff. As P&CMom said, "Even the best of kids do stupid things." And the best (or worst) of parents have good kids who do stupid things.
But, of course, not all college athletes do stupid things, the majority don't. Not all high school or grade school kids do stupid things. Not all members of society do stupid things. Just a few...but they can make life unpleasant for the rest of us.
I deleted my response to a deleted post.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Every day we see news of college athletes geing arrested or suspended for all sorts of violations
What is happening to them?
They grow up.
and go to jail like Sammy Smith, Nate Newton and countless others. They were punks when the got to school and punks when the left. College was just a stop along the way.
I know there are exceptions to every rule but lets look in our own backyards.
If you have kids in college have they gotten in trouble?
The families that you associate with who have kids in college, have they gotten in trouble?
Your sons closest friends on the team or in school, have they gotten in trouble?
Maybe we're looking at the wrong culprit and should dig a little deeper into the DNA. Lets ask the Moms and Dads of those who do get in trouble if they did their jobs in teaching the kids that life is a "team" game and when they get older, if their not thinking, they will be punished for their mistakes. I'll bet that if you look at the backgrounds of those who get in trouble you will find that they were allowed to walk on the edge their entire life and had a parental safety net when they fell off that edge.
If you have kids in college have they gotten in trouble?
The families that you associate with who have kids in college, have they gotten in trouble?
Your sons closest friends on the team or in school, have they gotten in trouble?
Maybe we're looking at the wrong culprit and should dig a little deeper into the DNA. Lets ask the Moms and Dads of those who do get in trouble if they did their jobs in teaching the kids that life is a "team" game and when they get older, if their not thinking, they will be punished for their mistakes. I'll bet that if you look at the backgrounds of those who get in trouble you will find that they were allowed to walk on the edge their entire life and had a parental safety net when they fell off that edge.
Interestingly it seems that baseball players are in the minority here--it seems to be abundantly football and basketball players
Cleveland dad deleted my post because I told the truth about recruiting at major colleges.
I will shorten my post and see if it stays this time.
The reason there are more reports of criminal behavior by college athletes is because colleges are recruiting criminals and bringing them onto their campuses. If I add the part about why they would do that my post will get deleted again.
How's that Cleveland Dad. No harm, no foul!
I will shorten my post and see if it stays this time.
The reason there are more reports of criminal behavior by college athletes is because colleges are recruiting criminals and bringing them onto their campuses. If I add the part about why they would do that my post will get deleted again.
How's that Cleveland Dad. No harm, no foul!
The foundation is rotting! Increased permissiveness by parents and other adult figures in the athletes life contributes; the decline of the two parent family; the increase in both parents working outside the home; the glamorization of athletics; money trumps ethics.
quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
Every day we see news of college athletes being arrested or suspended for all sorts of violations
What is happening to them?
I think my thoughts have been alluded to in several other posts but I will state them as best I can ... I personally believe that more athletes are getting into trouble just as more of our young people are getting into trouble because we (family, society, educators ... fill in the blank) have not set the bar of expectations for behavior high enough.
There is a theory in sociology called 'self-fulfilling prophecy' which relates to how well a person can succeed in life based on what is/was expected of him/her ... how high we go depends on how high we think we can go/how high were were expected to go by our authority figures. The old 'give me the name and I will play the game' theory.
I have felt for many years that our society has gotten to the point that 'boys will be boys' or 'they all try it' are common expressions parents use to validate their soft expectations for their children. Personally, we didn't do that at our house ... we told him that we expected him to behave properly, to NOT drink or do drugs, to NOT disobey driving laws, etc., and laid out the consequences for misbehaving very clearly. Some people may think this is parenting by guilt, but we felt it was necessary as a way to lead our son to making wise decisions, knowing full well that there are consequences for bad choices.
If we, as a society, would expect more out of our children, if we would believe that children and young adults can overcome the peer pressure to make bad decisions, then I think we would see fewer young people getting into trouble, whether athletes or not.
Dear Old Dad. Great point. I agree that programs do overlook many things in recruiting athletes. Maybe the NCAA needs to have "character guidelines" just as they have "academic guidelines" in order to stay NCAA eligible.????
I did not read your post but as I said before we need to speak our mind about what's right and what's wrong. If it steps on the culprit's toes then so be it. At the same time we have to be careful that we don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I did not read your post but as I said before we need to speak our mind about what's right and what's wrong. If it steps on the culprit's toes then so be it. At the same time we have to be careful that we don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
quote:Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
Cleveland dad deleted my post because I told the truth about recruiting at major colleges.
I will shorten my post and see if it stays this time.
The reason there are more reports of criminal behavior by college athletes is because colleges are recruiting criminals and bringing them onto their campuses. If I add the part about why they would do that my post will get deleted again.
How's that Cleveland Dad. No harm, no foul!
I didn't see your post but, there was a UM football player that had 10 incidents (some arrests) with the law before he stepped foot on campus. The community was outraged.
As you all know UM has had many issues over the past sveral years. One reason they claim is because they are taking these kids off the bad streets (and I mean bad if you know where they came from)and giving them scholarships based on talent.
I am not saying this is right or wrong, but brings up the above point.
quote:The reason there are more reports of criminal behavior by college athletes is because colleges are recruiting criminals and bringing them onto their campuses. If I add the part about why they would do that my post will get deleted again.
If one was to agree with that thinking, the why is because these kids are extremely talented. However, your original post went way beyond that!
Last year two baseball players got into serious trouble in college at South Carolina. They did not fit the profile given in your original post.
There will always be plenty of schools willing to give a talented athlete a chance. Many of these cases have turned into good things for all concerned. Some of them have back fired!
For the sake of our society, I for one am glad that some who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks get an education and turn into great citizens.
It all starts, and largely ends, at home.
*There are a few kids who are raised right but go wrong. Pretty small percentage, though.*
*There are a few kids who are raised right but go wrong. Pretty small percentage, though.*
PGStaff,
My post didn't go way beyond anything. I merely pointed out part of the recruiting process. It is the recruiting process that goes, as you say, "way beyond that". I can't help it if you refuse to admit it. What I posted is true and I personnally am outraged by it.
From reading your post, it seems to me that you have no problem with colleges bringing criminals onto campus. Huh??? There is plenty of talent out there so what is wrong with only giving scholarships to kids who have earned it by obeying the law and earning their H.S. grades. Plenty of kids from the "other side of the tracks" have done this.
Your thought process only feeds the already omnipresent belief that talent should trump all other factors. As long as the college gets its bowl game, what are a few felonies along the way.
And I know it would be great if college magically turned all its athletes into great citizens. But the arguement has always been that these kids get used by the college for their talent and come out no better than they went in. And that's not just me saying that.
Your point about a couple of baseball players getting in trouble doesn't have anything to do with my point. Colleges recruit for the wrong reasons and take the wrong kids intentionally. Their unethical practices are not something that you are in a position to deny. The evidence is there for anyone interested enough to simply look it up.
And honestly, why would any person who believes in equality for all support the current process of athletic recruiting.
I have intentionally left out the one point I made before to avoid the deletion of this post.
My post didn't go way beyond anything. I merely pointed out part of the recruiting process. It is the recruiting process that goes, as you say, "way beyond that". I can't help it if you refuse to admit it. What I posted is true and I personnally am outraged by it.
From reading your post, it seems to me that you have no problem with colleges bringing criminals onto campus. Huh??? There is plenty of talent out there so what is wrong with only giving scholarships to kids who have earned it by obeying the law and earning their H.S. grades. Plenty of kids from the "other side of the tracks" have done this.
Your thought process only feeds the already omnipresent belief that talent should trump all other factors. As long as the college gets its bowl game, what are a few felonies along the way.
And I know it would be great if college magically turned all its athletes into great citizens. But the arguement has always been that these kids get used by the college for their talent and come out no better than they went in. And that's not just me saying that.
Your point about a couple of baseball players getting in trouble doesn't have anything to do with my point. Colleges recruit for the wrong reasons and take the wrong kids intentionally. Their unethical practices are not something that you are in a position to deny. The evidence is there for anyone interested enough to simply look it up.
And honestly, why would any person who believes in equality for all support the current process of athletic recruiting.
I have intentionally left out the one point I made before to avoid the deletion of this post.
TPM, you speak of UM, that can be confusing. Since you are from South Fla. I assume you mean Miami, but being a proud graduate of the the Univ. of Mich, UM could also imply the Maize-n-
Blue and many other colleges.
Blue and many other colleges.
quote:Originally posted by Texan:
It all starts, and largely ends, at home.
*There are a few kids who are raised right but go wrong. Pretty small percentage, though.*
----------------------------------------------------
i do believe it starts at home, but it doesn't end there .and i know your last statement is way off base. when your kids do something wrong,they know it. now does that make you a good parent? because they know right from wrong. how many kids do you think do something wrong ,and are totally surprised that it was wrong?
i submit to you most parents who's kids have run off the path so to speak, don't post on websites. they withdraw and keep to themselves,from the embarassment. they are embarassed because they believe as most parents in that situation , it's their fault. they must have done something wrong. there are just as many messed up kids who were raised right. most of us just don't know it. then there's the parents that stand on the high side and say those parents must have done something wrong ,my kids wouldn't think of doing that because we brought him up this way. kids are the only thing we have that doesn't come with directions.
the truth is one parent or two,wrong side of the tracks or not. we don't know when or who the monkey will bite. we teach values and morals but at the end of the day,they are who they are.
i've told the story many times here so i won't do it again. but if you spent the day with my son you'd think he was a bright ,polite and well natured kid. which he is but he is also a cocaine addict,that started with pain killer's. just like roger clemens took.and he took them just like roger,popin them just like skittles. that's why that statement by roger hit home with me.
the point is you or i or a coach can't always tell who has problems, even when you know them. how hard it must be to find out those things when your recruiting them. and talent hides alot of sin's. i really don't know why kids do what they do,but this isn;t the same world that we grew up in. some of the same things our parents did to us still work. but we need to work harder today as parents. the hardest word for the kids to learn is consequence.it must be there for all the pieces to fit.
sorry to rant on ,and i'm sorry if you think this doesn't apply to this thread, but i think it does. an
I will approach this topic from another angle. For every one kid we hear about doing something wrong there are many doing alot of things right. Today nothing is secret. Websites , blogs etc etc. Things you would have never known about in the past are on your screen the day they happen. I believe that the vast majority are doing things right. I believe the vast majority are great kids. I dont think that the actions of a few should taint the reputation of the many.
I feel what is lacking in today's society is respect...no one exhibits any type of respect any longer.
Respect for authority
Respect for adults/elders
Respect for parents and
Respect for oneself...
On a brighter note...3 weeks ago my son took the New York State Police exam...in order to qualify you can not have had "issues" on your record...22,000 young men and women took this exam...so there is hope!!!
Respect for authority
Respect for adults/elders
Respect for parents and
Respect for oneself...
On a brighter note...3 weeks ago my son took the New York State Police exam...in order to qualify you can not have had "issues" on your record...22,000 young men and women took this exam...so there is hope!!!
The good thing about this conversation is that we learn that they're are not really any crooked baseball coaches in D1 or for that matter at any level. The really bad apples are in College Basketball (ie-Kelvin Samspon, Joe B. Hall, Jerry Tarkanian, Jim Harrick).
A few in College Football, but really, none to speak of in College Baseball. We are very fortunate to love this game and not have to worry about the "bad apples" in this sport.
A few in College Football, but really, none to speak of in College Baseball. We are very fortunate to love this game and not have to worry about the "bad apples" in this sport.
Thank goodness the good, outweighs, out numbers, and accounts for more,..... than the bad! 
I totally agree. It is a total lack of respect--and it starts very young. It's amazingly sad.quote:Originally posted by catchermom03:
I feel what is lacking in today's society is respect...no one exhibits any type of respect any longer.
Respect for authority
Respect for adults/elders
Respect for parents and
Respect for oneself...
catchermom03--Welcome back! And congratulations to your son. I hope he passes the test, please let us know.
quote:To laugh often and love much; to win the respect of intelligent persons and the affection of children; to earn the approbation of honest critics and to endure the betrayal false friends; to appreciate beauty; to find the best in others; to give of one's self; to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch, or a redeemed social condition; to have played and laughed with enthusiasm and sung with exultation; to know that even one life has breathed easier because you have lived-- this is to have succeeded.
Emerson
Love it. And it doesn't cost anything.....and you can be any size to experience it!
By Dear old Dad
Dear old Dad,
Your post was deleted because it involved racial comments. We need to get that out in the open. I checked your past posts and it appears you have somewhat of a history involving racial discussions. It's not limited to just this thread.
I would not have posted at all, except when you started profiling, it made me mad.
Your claim that colleges are recruiting criminals is a gross exageration. While some college programs might take a chance on an extremely talented athlete once in awhile, the majority of real criminals are behind bars not running around campus. There are hundreds/thousands of good high school kids who got in trouble in college.
Really none of this causes me to post, but racial comments have no place here IMO.
There are many, many documented cases of athletes coming out of college quite a bit better than when they entered. In fact, that's the way it is suppose to be. Nothing works out well 100% of the time!
BTW, I do have a problem if colleges bring criminals on campus. It just doesn't matter to me what race they are.
quote:PGStaff,
My post didn't go way beyond anything. I merely pointed out part of the recruiting process. It is the recruiting process that goes, as you say, "way beyond that". I can't help it if you refuse to admit it. What I posted is true and I personnally am outraged by it.
From reading your post, it seems to me that you have no problem with colleges bringing criminals onto campus. Huh??? There is plenty of talent out there so what is wrong with only giving scholarships to kids who have earned it by obeying the law and earning their H.S. grades. Plenty of kids from the "other side of the tracks" have done this.
Your thought process only feeds the already omnipresent belief that talent should trump all other factors. As long as the college gets its bowl game, what are a few felonies along the way.
And I know it would be great if college magically turned all its athletes into great citizens. But the arguement has always been that these kids get used by the college for their talent and come out no better than they went in. And that's not just me saying that.
Your point about a couple of baseball players getting in trouble doesn't have anything to do with my point. Colleges recruit for the wrong reasons and take the wrong kids intentionally.
I have intentionally left out the one point I made before to avoid the deletion of this post.
Dear old Dad,
Your post was deleted because it involved racial comments. We need to get that out in the open. I checked your past posts and it appears you have somewhat of a history involving racial discussions. It's not limited to just this thread.
I would not have posted at all, except when you started profiling, it made me mad.
Your claim that colleges are recruiting criminals is a gross exageration. While some college programs might take a chance on an extremely talented athlete once in awhile, the majority of real criminals are behind bars not running around campus. There are hundreds/thousands of good high school kids who got in trouble in college.
Really none of this causes me to post, but racial comments have no place here IMO.
There are many, many documented cases of athletes coming out of college quite a bit better than when they entered. In fact, that's the way it is suppose to be. Nothing works out well 100% of the time!
BTW, I do have a problem if colleges bring criminals on campus. It just doesn't matter to me what race they are.
quote:Originally posted by Flintoide:
TPM, you speak of UM, that can be confusing. Since you are from South Fla. I assume you mean Miami, but being a proud graduate of the the Univ. of Mich, UM could also imply the Maize-n-
Blue and many other colleges.
My bad I meant it was about the U, University of Miami.
interesting topic ...
tho it'd be easier to make heads or tails out of this part of the discussion if the (so called) controversial posts hadn't been deleted to protect me from hurt feelings
perhaps if mods only had a finite # of interventions they could make each month it would "moderate" them to choose wisely and allow an exchange of opinions
... even by those that disagree with the clapping hands
tho it'd be easier to make heads or tails out of this part of the discussion if the (so called) controversial posts hadn't been deleted to protect me from hurt feelings
perhaps if mods only had a finite # of interventions they could make each month it would "moderate" them to choose wisely and allow an exchange of opinions
quote:Originally posted by Bee>:
interesting topic ...
tho it'd be easier to make heads or tails out of this part of the discussion if the controversial posts hadn't been deleted to protect me from hurt feelings
perhaps if mods only had a finite # of interventions they could make each month it would "moderate" them a bit
Perhaps you should moderate yourself Bee>... those comments are not appreciated...
Here is the skinny on what he said. He said the reason there is so much crime in college sports is that colleges recruit too many black players. He is clearly a racist and I don't see where that type of vile belongs here on the hsbbweb.