What is the difference?

Auntie, What level of program is your nephew signing with. While the National Letter of Intent is a program that oversees NCAA DI signings, there are LOI or Letter of Intents that are governed by other programs. Do you know if it's a NCAA school and if so, DI, DII, DIII or is it an NAIA or JUCO?

Whatever he's signing, he couldn't sign within that level... he will be committed to that school at that level.

Hi. Thank you for your question. Yes, it is a Division 1 NCAA baseball school here in the midwest. Mom and Dad didn't know who to ask. I heard about this place and thought I'd help them out. Thank you.

I cannot answer that question for you auntie, but I always like to see a good ol Nebraska boy living his baseball dreams. If you feel comfortable let us know his name and the school and I will keep an eye out for him

Auntie - Welcome to the web site!

I have not seen any National Letter of Intent for D1 without a $$ component (from baseball $$), that is the main reason to lock yourself into the school.

Actually the National Letter of Intent applies to both D1 and D2.

Link for more information:

http://www.national-letter.org/

Auntie, I'm assuming it must be his "dream school" since he's signing without any money. I have known a kid who signed for a roster spot at a large DI.... that was the only thing guaranteed by the school for the year... no money. It was my understanding that they were promising the player he wouldn't be cut. I actually didn't see the NLI, but do know he signed something.

Players make choices based on alot of factors and for some the dollars aren't important. For others they are and for a variety of reasons.

The true issue is not whether a school is a Division I or Division II institution but whether an institution is a member of the National Letter of Intent program. With more than 500 participating institutions, the NLI program is truly national in scope. All Division I institutions, with the exception of the Service Academies, half of the Patriot League and schools in the Ivy League, are members of the program, and most fully active Division II institutions participate in the program. No Division III institutions, NAIA schools, preparatory schools, junior colleges, or community colleges participate in the National Letter of Intent program.

Panther, That is why I clarified what level. If it is DI, it is under the NLI program. However, if it was JUCO, it was under the NJCAA most likely and their LOI program. NAIA doesn't enforce a LOI as a governing body, but do typically respect the "LOI" signed at least within conferences. So, what governing body and what the implications are depended on what level of school the player was signing with.

Since he is signing with a DI, he will be locked into that institution at the DI level. While he could sign again with other levels of play, the real question comes if you're questioning your choice, I don't think it's a good thing to sign. But then again sometimes it's just "pre wedding jitters".

So my nephew should not be saying it is a National letter of intent because he's not getting scholarship, right? The reason I ask is the local newspaper wants to put an article in about him. His dad says it doesn't matter. They can say what they want. But I don't think he should say what is not true. Is an Intent to Enroll a good thing to have in Division I?

Auntie, I don't think any of us can say for certain what your nephew is signing because we haven't seen it. The paper probably won't refer to a "National Letter of Inent" anyway. Most articles state that a player "signed" with such and such. I think that might because there are so many different avenues of "signing" a player depending on what program. If they do state National Letter of Intent and that's not what he signed, I don't think there's any malice involved or intentionally misleading anyone.

The main point is that he's made a choice and has the opportunity to do what many players dream of. That's something to be celebrated whatever the form says. A big congrats to him on his journey!

http://www.national-letter.org/guidelines/nli_text.php

Point two talks about the Financial point.

I was just looking at the copy of the NLI that my son signed and the top of the form has the following heading:

2007-2008 National Letter of Intent.

A signing is a signing and like lafmom stated "all the newspaper is interested in is that a player signed". We have another local kid that signed with Harvard which does not give any athletic money but nevertheless he did sign and will be playing baseball at Harvard.

From the National Letter of Intent website:

In order for a National Letter of Intent it be considered valid, it must be accompanied by an athletics financial aid award letter, which lists the terms and conditions of the award, including the amount and duration of the financial aid. The athletics financial aid offer must be signed by both the student and his or her parent or legal guardian. Simply put, there must be an athletics scholarship for a National Letter of Intent to be valid.

Not disagreeing with the definition of the NLI here. But a friend of mine's son was offered a roster spot at a mid-major D1 this week, with no athletic money offered, although there is a strong prospect of some academic money. School messengered over a "Letter of Intent to Apply" and generally made it clear that they wished to treat him in every way as a recruit, except they didn't have any money to offer him. Signing ceremony, lots of calls from the coaches and so on. The kid is thrilled as this is his #1 choice of school; he is the kind of kid who flys under the radar and is a perfect fit at this school, which does a great job of ferreting out kids like him and turning them into minor leaguers come their junior and senior years. My point is, if a college has recruited a kid, and is offering him a roster spot in November, even without any money offered, that is certainly a reason to celebrate in my book. Just because he isn't signing an official NLI doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to call himself a recruit; after all, it's the roster spot that puts him on the team, not the dollar amount of the scholarship. I say call the newspapers and let the locals know they have a talented player in their midst.

I may get smashed for this, but here goes...

I really don't think a D1 college should ask a kid to sign anything unless they're offering $$. Yes, it makes the kid and mom and dad feel good...AND FEEL COMMITTED, which is exactly what the coach wants! IMO, thats really not fair to the kid and family.

A coach should tell the kid if he comes to his school that there's a roster spot for him if thats what he wants. Go ahead and ask the kid if he intends to take it. But don't make him feel "committed" when they have made no real commitment to him. My guess is they're worried someone else may find him and give him a little $$.

Look, college athletics is a business of sorts. It is impossible to rid yourself of emotion in this process, but take as much out of the equation as you can. I can almost guarantee you when your son arrives on campus, all that hoopla-boopla from the recruiting stuff will be gone and "business" and performance will be the name of the game...and the $$ players will be starting 10 yards in front of the non-$$ players.

Justbb, it depends on what the kid and family are looking for. As said above, there are many situations where the kid is going somewhere where they aren't giving athletic money (like Harvard) or are in a situation where they don't need athletic money, they just want to know the kid has a spot on the team.

As for your last statement, if it is about performance, then it won't matter whether a kid is there on athletic $$ or academic $$. To be sure, a player who they have given athletic $$ to might be given a couple of more chances, but in the end, the coaches need to win to keep their jobs, and they will play the best player at a position, whether that kid is there on athletic money or a walk-on.

Given how few kids make a roster of a D1 team, regardless of money, it is an accomplishment.

Maybe the kid is happy to have the coach's thumb on the scale when his application goes through admissions? Sometimes you can use your sport to get into a better school than you might be able to get into otherwise.

Beepers,
If you click on the link above, and read the NCAA guidelines, a NLI for a D1 school has to include financial aid (some refer to it also as grant in aid).

I don't know what a National letter of Intent to Apply means.

What it does mean to me, is that if there is no NLI to protect either the player or school, he is being far more trusting than I would be. The coach has nothing to lose, the player does.

If your friend and son feel comfortable with that, then that is their choice to do so.
But this is a scenerio that I would certainly not encourage.
Anyone can be offered a roster spot, but again remember no valid NLI then there is NO guarantee that spot will be available next fall or he will even be given a chance to work for one.
JBB,
No smashing I am with you and the others on this one!
JMO.

The Ivy League doesn't participate in the NLI program...so its useless there.

quote:

The National Letter of Intent (NLI) program is administered by the Collegiate
Commissioners Association. Currently 55 conferences are members of the
National Letter of Intent program and more than 500 institutions participate. All
NCAA Division I institutions, with the exception of those in the Ivy League, the
Service Academies and some schools in the Patriot League, are members of the
program.

I am NOT minimizing the accomplishment. Ask for the coach's endorsement in the application process. He'd darn-well better do at least that! I don't think the coaches shouldn't ask for a signature when none is necessary.

It is a HUGE step to go from "guaranteed roster spot" to playing time. If we're going to give honest advice here, we must acknowledge that.

Anyone who signs an NLI is essentially guaranteed a roster spot for one year. Not neccesarily a starter, key word here is guaranteed.

But I have to agree with TD, coach is being unfair asking player to sign something that is NOT valid. The end of the process is a commitment as TD says. The coach is asking that player to commit in November because he has no money to give him now, how can a coach do this? Most likely because the player and parents indicated he would play there for nothing. I am sure coaches just love having an extra player, and not having to count him in the 11.7. I wonder if he passed the player info to the admissions department. Or is that a letter of intent to apply?
This player has a whole year in front of him to find a place to play that will give him a commitment and something to back it up.

To answer the question, I have seen the NLI, my son signed one and it is clear as day on the top of the letter. I have also seen D1 schools give a "Letter of Intent" to a recruit. On it is the $$ amount that the recruit is getting. The catch is there is NO baseball scholarship money. Basically this player is being recruited just like the NLI player however there is a good possibility that this player was going to get more $$ from said school through academics or need based financial aid then he would have gotten in baseball scholarship. My son had an offer like this last year.

Two years ago a player I know received a 90% need based financial aid award from a major D1, NO baseball money. The result is he does not get a NLI but the Letter from the school. Had he accepted the baseball offer, he would have gotten 20% less. The program benifits since nothing is held against the 11.7. The player gets to sign a paper and again it's really no ones business..This is all valid and the player will get the same spot guaranteed the the NLI kid gets.....No spots are guaranteed, hence redshirts...

Coach Merc...you are right. These situations do exist too.

But there's still a $$ amount coming to the kid. Some coaches (I am told) are asking for signatures with nothing behind it other than a guaranteed roster spot. That is misleading to ask a kid to sign that IMO.

Coach Merc,
If that is the story then I might understand BUT that is not what was indicated to us.

There was way too much talk about Guaranteed roster spots here. I think the similar term is the check is in the mail....Nothing is guaranteed, the player earns his spot when he arrives on campus. I'm sure these programs that have signed 21 and 19 and 27 kids this past year all guaranteed spots....

If you have your child sign any paper with no financial reward, be it the NLI or just the LI, could be questioned.
Auntie only mentions no SCHOLARSHIP money....there has to be some trade off.

I would also imagine that since this is not a "NLI" governed by the NCAA that it's non binding and the recruit would be able to sign a "NLI" at anytime in the future.

It is invalid with no $$ behind it...that is clear. BUT, the problem is the coach is trying to make the kid 1) feel good (I'm ok with that) and 2) feel committed (I'm NOT ok with that).

I do not believe I would let my son sign an "letter of intent" without some financial backing behind it. I would be happy to tell a coach 'thank you, my son currently intends to enroll at your school, can you help with admissions?' But sign something? No, not here...even if its not worth the paper its written (signed) on.

Justbaseball and TPM have brought up some very good points that I confess have crossed my mind as well. I think I remember reading another of JBB's posts saying that when his son signed, his coach told him that once the team reported in the fall, the dollar amount of the scholarship made no difference in terms of playing time--that starts had to be earned based on performance. But it's hard not to look at a dollar amount as a coach's perception of the player's worth coming in to the program. So where does one rate someone who's offered an "early" roster spot but no money?

And of course, because this is a friend and not myself I am speaking of, I don't know all the intimate details of the financial arrangements--for all I know the school would have offered him baseball money if he hadn't appeared to qualify for academic aid. The coach is indeed helping him with the admission--they appear to be doing everything they can to convince him he is wanted--except offer him dollars. I kind of wondered, though, if they really wanted to lock him up, why they wouldn't offer even a token amount--say, $100.00 or so--just to get the official committment.

My take is that the kid wants to play for the school more than the school wants him on its team. I'm not saying the school doesn't want him--only that, as in many relationships, one party has stronger feelings than the other. The school wants him enough to offer a roster spot, but not enough to offer him money. And the player is happy just being offered the chance to prove he belongs there. But the paper the school is giving him to sign isn't asking for much of a commitment from the player, either--it only asks for an intent to apply, not for an intent to enroll if admitted. So really, it's all a big gesture. The player would feel committed only in the sense that he committed himself years ago--this was the school he wants and that's that.

Bought a car lately? One of the techniques used by salesmen is to have you sign a letter of intent. They basically ask you to sign a non-binding contract that states you agree to purchase his vehicle if he can get his sales manager to approve a certain purchase price. The car buyer and the baseball player are both emotionally involved in the process. The coach and the car salesman are both businessmen and both are using the emotional aspect of the processes to their advantage.
I feel as if this coach is just trying to seal the deal on this player. You can’t say it’s good or bad but it should not be necessary. From my perspective (and the coach’s) it seems as if the coach has a player ---- and the player has a worthless piece of paper. If the player is excited and happy then I guess we should all be excited and happy. I see nothing wrong with going to the paper and allowing them to print a article that says the player has signed with college if they chose to call it a “national” letter of intent so be it.
Maybe ignorance is bliss. If you were to give a girl a 3 carat cubic zirconia ring and passed it off as the real thing she would be just as excited as if it were a real diamond ---- if she never had it appraised. By doing this you end up with an appreciative girl and she has virtually nothing. She can even show it off to her friends as long as they aren’t appraisers.
Fungo

congrats to nephew!!

back to the original question as I see it ...
Why is auntie raining on the kid's parade??

if her understanding is correct & he's getting no $$, she should just give him a big hug (w/an "auntie" kiss that leaves lipstick smeared on his face) while explaining SHE will be sending him expen$e money each month

jmo


ps - between his parents & auntie's "checkbook love" the newspaper could report nephew was essentially getting a full ride "like everyone else is"



.

Bee - I like your idea!!!!

Fungo - May I have G.'s cell number please?

Beepers,
My belief is that both parties (coaches and recruits) should feel the same way.
I posted something a few weeks back about recruits going to a school because they really wanted to go play for that school (for whatever reason) and maybe some thouhgt the scenerio that happened doesn't exist. But there are so many things that DO happen and many times it is not positive.
I just can't see signing a letter when that letter has no valid meaning other that to make the recruit feel good. And I agree, they could have given him something, but my understanding is once they did that, it becomes binding and legal. I wouldn't have my son sign for a minimal amout to be told more would be on it's way later on.

Coach Merc,
There are no guarantees in life, that is for sure. But a player with no NLI agreement has a lot more to lose than the player with one.
What happens come fall? The player with the NLI gets asked to redshirt or remains on active roster and sits. He then has the choice to remain or ask for a release to play somewhere else and has summer to do that. What happens to the player than has no NLI, aren't his chances of being asked to step down greater? Where do you go come January?
Just some questions here I don't understand.

If this player was awaiting academic $$ and admittance, then the coach could have offered a commitment next signing period. All he had to do was go to admissions to give them players info, just like they do in the fall. We all know there is no guarantee until the admittance letter comes.

You all make me sound so mean. I asked a question because the Mom and Dad aren't sure they should ask. You make it sound like I'm not happy. My nephew didn't get any money from the baseball people. He has not gotten any money from the school. He just plays the baseball. Maybe there stupid for not asking for money but they work hard. They don't see many games. I try to help. A friend said this was a nice place. You all so busy worried about money. Maybe you got to much

Auntie:

It was a good question. I don't think anyone was intending to be mean. It's a unique situation. What is sad to me is that his parents were most likely uninformed about the recruiting process and what to expect. I think this is probably very common. And perhaps their lack of knowledge left their son vulnerable. He will have an uphill battle and it may not be because of his ability.

Hi Auntie: I think you are just trying to find out the accurate information so this great moment for your nephew doesn't backfire! But unless somebody is very well versed in all this NLI, letter of intent, intent to enroll, they are not going to know much of a difference. All they need to know is that your nephew is going to college (a good one, by the sound of it) and is going to play baseball there. And there aren't too many kids who get that chance. Whether or not he gets money is between the boy and his parents. It's wonderful news and celebrate. Sometimes the world is forgiving of mistakes with the best intentions. (and Sometimes nobody gives you a break)

Auntie - I had no intention, whatsoever, of making you sound mean or anything else negative. If you felt I did, I am sorry, truly sorry.

Your question and this thread exposed an issue that needs to be discussed in the open. I felt we were discussing it in a generic sense...not focused on your nephew.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with your nephew's situation...many college players accept the same deal...he and his parents and you should feel very, very proud.

But in this type of situation, the coach should not ask the player to sign anything. I have a very strong opinion about that because I think its unfair to the player...its taking advantage of emotions and excitement.

Best of luck. We will ALL be rooting very hard for your nephew to have a great senior season and a terrific college career. You can be sure of that.

Auntie,
Please don’t take these conversations as “mean” as I’m sure no one intended them to be such. I remember the first time I posted on the HSBBW I felt like I had done or said something wrong. The internet, while it can provide us with a lot of information it also lacks emotion and comes across harsh at times. The little emoticons do provide some insight into the intent of the poster but even at that it lack the smile and the eye contact necessary to convey the intent.

For instance I can say ---- Look another new member ---
Or I can say ---- Look another new member ----
They same the same thing but can be taken differently.

Let’s start over.
Welcome to the High School Baseball Web. I think it’s great you are involved in your nephew’s baseball and we appreciate you asking about the NLI. We are also happy that your nephew has found a place that he can play at the next level. The recruiting ride is known as a roller coaster because of the ups and downs and unusual situations pop up from time to time. I’ve been here for a few years and the situation you describe is unique and normally these unique questions or situations do generate some unusual responses. Even if it were a simple question you might get some unusual answers. Please forgive us for being blunt but most of the time that is the best approach especially when it takes as long as it does for someone like me to type out a response.. Congratulations to your nephew and we hope you continue to post here on the HSBBW. You will eventually be our resident expert on the NLI and the LI and can explain the differences between the two.
Fungo

Auntie,
Hope you understand nothing was meant to be mean. Welcome.

I find it very interesting that you have posted an unusual situation, then Beepers shared same story. Maybe it's more common than we think, but maybe just a coincidence.

dear auntie, my appologies if my comments made you sound mean

but you do seem intent to rain on nephew's parade

quote:

by auntie: The reason I ask is the local newspaper wants to put an article in about him ... I don't think he should say what is not true ... Mom and Dad didn't know who to ask

you have gotten some great discussion going here, but does any of it pertain?
who knows

Mom & Dad DO know where to get their questions answered - nephew's coach
and, the money situation should be privy ONLY to those paying the bills

there are plenty of guys continuing their baseball as recruited walk-ons in college - - there are also a ton of guys who'd love to have that chance, and - as their odds for success are pretty tough ... the title of the document they signed is prolly pretty low on their "things to worry about list"

again, congrats



.

Auntie... JustBaseBall & Fungo are just trying to help. I agree with them.If your nephew has no money concerns(can pay the full price without worry)& this is his dream school that is wonderful. Just remember this: Once he signs & it is printed in the newspaper,he will have little or no chance of getting any $$ from ANY school.