What "it" takes

quote:

Are you born with it?
Do you learn it?
Is it an "instinct?
Can it be taught?
Do some have it, some not have it?
Can you have it and lose?
Can you have it, not use it, and then start it?
Leaving Jeter out, what is a "competitive inferno?"

I think you're largely born with it...or perhaps you see it in your parents/home environment and thats the way you quickly learn to think about things.

There must be some ability to "teach" it...else coaches wouldn't work so hard at instilling it. But how much? I don't know. I think you can "lose it" at some point in a certain domain...but I think the basic trait is there to stay.

To me, "competitive inferno" is something I have a hard time defining, but I sure think I know it when I see it...or when it seems to be completely absent.

I love the idea behind this topic!

I'll probably have more than one post in this thread but the Yankees have incorporated "it." They have a corporate culture that produces "it."

I loved Reggie Jackson but it seemed like Thurmon Munson was the one who had it. But there were others. Paul O'Neill definitely had it but other Jeter contemporaries like Mariano Rivera and Andy Pettite also seem to have it. They continue to find it, groom it, and pass it on down to the next generation. Sometimes, like with the case of O'Neill, they trade for it.

I think some players have some of it but don't find it unless it is coached out of them. I think of JD Drew when he was traded to Boston and how the team leaders explained to him what it was going to take which was far different than the way JD had been coddeled up until that time. I am not arguing that JD has it but "it" became more apparent in him after he was forced to be accountable to his teammates. Boston has a number of guys with it like Youkalis, Pedroia, Varitek. Sometimes, the guys who have it like Varitek don't have the best stats but they have the best leadership qualities. Who can ever forget Varitek putting his glove in Arod's face.

Some guys demonstrate it through intimidation. I think of Bob Gibson and the stories that are told about his competitive fire. Think about Kirk Gibson running around the bases on one leg pumping his fist at the same time the flamboyant Dennis Eckersly is hanging his head.

If people get the chance, the MLB network routinely shows game 7 of the 1991 World Series between John Smoltz and Jack Morris. Maybe there will never be a pure definition of it but "it" was on display that day from both pitchers. I know people will take me to task for saying this, but Morris deserves to be in the Hall of Fame for that one game alone imho. There he truly demonstrated "it."

I knew other thoughts would come to me. There are different ways of expressing it. Some guys demonstrate it with enthusiasm. I think of Willie Mays. I think of Clemente and how determined and intense he was. I think of Pete Rose and Ty Cobb and how intense they were and wonder if a line can be crossed when achieving it.

CD,
Those are great examples. I particularly like Clemente because he so often gets overlooked and the same for Jack Morris.
But, how do they get that raging competitive inferno and how do they keep it day in and day out?
That is really what I hope this thread might discuss in detail. Can a player learn it or is it instinct and something you have or don't?
When Jack Morris was on that mound in the 1-0 game and would not come out and would not give in, why did he do that and others(like me) don't?

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
But, how do they get that raging competitive inferno and how do they keep it day in and day out?

That is a great question and I think I see where you are going with it. Perhaps the easy part for Jack Morris and other great ones like Jeter is playing the game. The part where they really prove "it" is the preperation necessary to perform in "the game."

Jerry Krause once said that what separated Michael Jordan was that not only was he the best player but he was the best "practice" player. In other words, he worked harder in practice than any other player. He also expected it out of his teammates.

I am sure this is also true with Jeter and the like. Not only are they willing to pay the price so that their game performance is optimum, they don't mind grinding it out in practice everyday in order to ensure the result they already envision beforehand in their mind's eye.

They sure do pay the price and do it everyday... and seem to thrive on it.
The best personal illustration I can make from recent experience is doing marathons.
Sometime around miles 17-20, a voice starts to talk about stopping, about quitting, about how your legs hurt, feet are throbbing, blisters are biting.
It isn't a loud voice/thought.
It just lingers.
What I will say is the voice, the pain, the discomfort, the cramping has never won.
I have never quit.
But, the symptoms and voice can make an impact and slow me down. They may cause me to walk a water stop rather than run through it as an example.

Elite runners must hear the same voice, but it doesn't win in any way with them. It does not slow them down.
Something about them or about competition, or both allows them to either ignore that voice of pain and discomfort or they just don't ever hear it.
I don't believe the latter, though.
I wonder if I can find/aquire, at my age, a "raging inferno" for competition.
I wonder if it can be taught to an 8-10 year old in LL. Can it be taught to a HS player/college player?
Actually, the more I think of this, the more questions I have.
I wonder if it is the competition that results in/causes and brings out the "raging inferno" or does the "inferno" exist in some athletes like Jeter, but is manifested by competition?

This is a subject which I have constantly studied since my graduate work at MSU in
Social Psychology.

During my years at MSU Earl Morrall [3b and NFL quarterback] was my teammate.

Later Willie Mays became a friend, coached John Wetteland and Torri Hunter in our Goodwill Series events. Our alumni list exceeds 400 MLB players.

I look for the "common tread" among all players.

Self discipline and leadership are important traits
for successful athletes.

Today, a parent can teach leadership to their son or daughter.

Mark Newman, Vice President and I talked about this subject several years ago. I call it the 6th tool
and presented a formula for their scouts to search for the 6th tool.

Thanks for presenting this subject. Maybe I will present a 2 week seminar next December in Australia.

We will have our 60 USA players, 35 parents, 12 pro scouts as coaches and the 140 Australian players. A perfect core group to interview.

Bob Williams

IT is a mental skill.

Mental skills, like all skills, are acquired through deliberate and continuous practice.

The quality and strength of IT depends on the quality of execution of your mental skill exercises and the number of repetitions.

Are you born with it? No.
Do you learn it? Yes.
Is it an "instinct? No.
Can it be taught? Yes.
Do some have it, some not have it? Yes.
Can you have it and lose? Yes.
Can you have it, not use it, and then start it? Yes.

----------------------------------------------
editorial staff, sportsvisionmagazine.com
- training visual, cognitive and intelligence skills

I agree, there are many players that have talent to play their game, but not everyone has "it".

In baseball, Jeter has it, Pujols has it, Rivera has it, and others, but not everyone, some young players have "it", like Porcello, Lincecum. In basketball it's players like Colby, Wade, LeBron, etc. that have "it". Tiger has "it". Mays had it and so did Mantle. Sometimes all you have to do is sit back and watch a game and the "it" player shouts out at you.

There's tons of talent out there, but shouldn't be confused with having "it".

JMO.

The "competitive inferno" as infielddad calls it is something, IMO, we are born with. Regarding sports I feel it is a personal disdain for losing.

When I played basketball (never played baseball)I felt that if we lost a game that the other team thought they were better human beings than us. That sounds strange putting on paper but that's how I internalized it. "These SOBs aren't going to look down on me when they win." I hated my opponents during games. Even guys I knew well. An hour after the game I was fine, but during the game all bets were off.

My son has that same desire playing baseball. I never realized until I was asked to help coach one fall. When he made and out he would come back to the dugout ****ed off and cursing the pitcher. Yesterday he had a couple of hits in a game and a couple of the opposing players congratulated him during the game. He couldn't understand how an opposing player could say something nice to the opposition while the game was in progress. He said he would never do it. Whether it's good or not, I guess the apple stayed close to the tree here.

I really don't think this is a "condition" you can teach a player. A strong desire to win, or the fear of losing, whether sports or academic, can be a very good motivator to work and perform at your best.

Anybody know a good shrink?

quote:

...it is something, IMO, we are born with. Regarding sports I feel it is a personal disdain for losing.

fillsfan, I believe you've hit the nail on the head. For my oldest, second place doesn't even count. Not in basketball...and definitely not in baseball. Opposing players are the enemy...between the lines. Even if they were youth-league teammates; the friendships do not count until after the game. And, the best games, are the victories. It's just the way he's wired.

Even former coaches, whether super-league or from tournaments, are the enemy until the game ends. Before the game...after the game...they are "Coach". During the game, they are the opposing coach, and his job is to beat them.

He has always been this way. I remember an 8U LL game against the coach who had coached him from t-ball to 7U. Great guy...and very competitive himself. He was standing on the 1st-base side, telling his hitters (loudly) that they could hit anything son could throw. Son would stare down the coach between pitches...strike-out the hitter...and stare down the coach again. By the 3rd or 4th inning, the coach became very quiet. Son smiled...quit staring at the coach between pitches...and finished the game.

I've never taught that, and I don't know any of his coaches who have, either. It comes from within him, and it burns continuously.

Today, I research an old article written by Dan Peterson of Sports Illustrated. He was stopping in St Louis at the Union Station September 18, 1956 and met Ted Williams, who was reading the Sporting News.

Ted rolled the issue of the Sporting News like a bat to show to the writer his swing.

The writer summarized the success of Ted Williams.
1. He is a perfectionist.
2. He is better than you are. Cocky and jolly.
3. He is a consummate thinker and question everyone.
4. Childlike.
5. Iconoclastic, not conventional.
6. He is in charge.
7. Passion about his trade, inquisitive.

If we apply the above traits to the great players, we may find the "common tread".

Personally, I believe they can be learned, if the opportunity and environment to learn is created.

Bob Williams

To me "IT" is a unique and magical asset which is "GOD Given"---it is something a player is either born with or he isn't.

How do you teach a player to do what Jeter did against the A's with that play at home ?---you cannot practice that

You cannot teach a player to have the "flair" that Willie Mays had !

There is simply them that gots it and them that don't