Edgarfan .... Here's a model I try to follow. Unless asked specifically about my son or I need to use my son as an example to make my point, when I reread my post I ask ... If I take out the part about my son is it still a good post?
The reason most people are on this board is because their son has a passion for the game. He's probably in high school. He was probably a star leading up to high school. He's at least a competent player capable of playing college ball at some level.
With the exception of a handful of parents with stud prospect sons or sons who have already made it to pro ball, everyone is in the same boat. This is the big pond. But I don't have an issue with your question. I believe it reenergized the conversation.
Let's talk about investment. Time investment. Financial investment. Emotional investment. These can be a deadly trinity playing on the minds of parents. You can give until you can give no more. It doesn't change a players potential. It only cultivates the potential. You can't buy talent.quote:But I also feel that I should learn all that I can to help put him in the best possible situations to open doors too.
There's a former teammate of my son heading off to play at a ranked SEC program. His father has a lot of money. The father spared no expense getting his son training and exposure. I watched other dads try to follow the model. What they didn't grasp was this kid has far more potential than their kids without all the extra expense.
The other dads were blinded by this kid wasn't better than their son's until high school. Then his potential exploded. Some dads thought it was the money spent. It's the kid's size and baseball potential.
Where I'm going with this is investment only provides opporunity. Investment doesn't guarantee return on investment. I've seen some crazy parents who were overly invested financially and emotionally. Anyone who thinks they overinvested timewise with their son needs to be whacked in the head. But I've heard the complaint. "We sacrificed our lives to baseball the past X years."
I wonder how wealthy I could become if I created a sedative marketed specifically to parents going through the recruiting process.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
"Let's talk about investment. Time investment. Financial investment. Emotional investment. These can be a deadly trinity playing on the minds of parents. You can give until you can give no more. It doesn't change a players potential. It only cultivates the potential."
RJM, that's a great post, and maybe would have been a better prelude to asking what I was originally trying to get at with my "too personal" post. At the particular stage my son is in, it is very difficult to gauge "potential" and there is a lot of anxiety surrounding the "deadly trinity" that leads to questions like mine. I guess a less personal way to ask it might have been, what sorts of markers (athletic and otherwise) do we see in players at the beginning of HS who later become successful and worth "the deadly trinity" of time, financial, and emotional investment required?
Edgarfan, I can certainly empathize with the "how do you know" position you are in as my son is the same age as yours.
This topic is timely as my son just had his fall evaluation with his team. All of the coaches played in college at some level and a few professionally. About 6 to 8 of them have worked with this group of boys for the last 3 months.
When talking to them they qualify many (if not most) of their statements with the parents with lots of "ifs" and I mean lots. Because of this site I have a much better understanding of why. Things change a lot. Certainly we both see it with our sons and their peers already. Last years stud is no faster this year and everyone else is, etc..
Now if someone could just help me with the whole relax and enjoy I would be great. I am much better at it because of the nuggets shared here but still have the occasional why the heck did I do that moment. Thankfully most of these are confined to private dealings with my son and not in public anymore. Ha.
This topic is timely as my son just had his fall evaluation with his team. All of the coaches played in college at some level and a few professionally. About 6 to 8 of them have worked with this group of boys for the last 3 months.
When talking to them they qualify many (if not most) of their statements with the parents with lots of "ifs" and I mean lots. Because of this site I have a much better understanding of why. Things change a lot. Certainly we both see it with our sons and their peers already. Last years stud is no faster this year and everyone else is, etc..
Now if someone could just help me with the whole relax and enjoy I would be great. I am much better at it because of the nuggets shared here but still have the occasional why the heck did I do that moment. Thankfully most of these are confined to private dealings with my son and not in public anymore. Ha.
quote:I honestly don't know where my son fits in. He has good qualities and bad qualities (both athletically and otherwise), and there are times when I am sure he looks like a college prospect and others when I am sure he is not. I was hoping that some of the more experienced eyes would see something in my description that would tell me that we're at least on a track where I am not wasting my time and money chasing a scholarship, if not quite yet what sorts of schools/divisions we should be focusing on at this age.
EdgarFan,
I have captured this aspect of your post because it seems important not only to you, but to a number of others who have posted in this thread who have son's at a similar age.
As an "old timer" who has enjoyed this site immensely over the years, and gained far more than I could ever give, my honest and immediate thought is why is there such a need to know at ages 14-15?
Understandably, it seems to me it is because of sites like this and the showcase/travel ball media/social network communication fury which is taking over youth/teen/HS baseball.
I joined this site when our son was a sophomore in college at a small D3 in Texas in about 2002/2003. I thought he was pretty good. So did his college coaches.
While the baseball team was pretty big in D3, D3 and the school were not part of the dialogue on this site.
When I posted for the first time of the SCAC baseball conference and schools like Rhodes, Trinity and Millsaps, one grizzly veteran who had a son at an SEC school commented in a way which made me question if our son was even playing/competing in college baseball.
When our son was 14-15, he was about 4'8", and less than 100lbs. He played senior little league when that was in season, flag football in season, basketball in season, soxxer in season, and swam year round 3 days per week, supplemented by a bit of tennis.
We didn't have PG, Headfirst, the HSBBW or any other social networking medium.
The idea of where he "fit" in baseball outside our area never crossed my mind. How far he might play baseball or play in college never crossed my mind.
We just wanted him to get bigger than 4'8" and be more than 96lbs, which was his size/height for the first HS physical for real football.
Certainly, where he "fit" started to become an issue during his junior year in HS. Even the Stanford Camp didn't solve the question even for the coaches.
The first time I actually had reasonable idea where he "fit" was during a game against Team USA in the Summer after his sophomore year. The Team USA pitcher was being discussed as the #1 pick in the draft. When he started to wind up for the 1st pitch, there must have been close to 50 guns go in the air. Next thing I know, that 96mph fastball was buzzing right back up the middle by the ear of the pitcher.
At that minute, I had some idea where our son "fit."
Until that point, we really didn't have any.
From ages 14-17, it didn't matter because I didn't read PG stuff, HF stuff, the HSBBW stuff and BA and all the things which generate so much media frenzy and angst...among the readers.
Perhaps our family would not be able to survive in the media world of youth baseball as it exists today.
I would like to think we could because not knowing just didn't matter.
We didn't have access to places like this that made us feel like we didn't know, or needed to know.
Do you and the others who have asked truly need to know at ages 14/15?
Honestly, I don't think so.
But I can surely understand and appreciate why you might think you do need to know.
From our experience, my input is you do have the power and ability to choose either pathway.
I don't feel you need to feel compelled by all the "hype" including the type of player comments noted by twotex when she started this thread.
Honestly, even if you did know where he is at 14 and 15, I wonder if that would probably only lead to more worry and angst about where he will be when he is 17 and 18.
infielddad, nicely put a i think you may be on to something as far as why there is 'such a need to know'.
Couple of additional comments to this interesting thread.
1. Focus on academics. It will open hundreds of more doors than athletic ability ever will. There is 10x’s more academic money out there than athletic. Too bad there is not a HSAcademicWeb… maybe there is… college board? Don’t know but find it and push him academically NOW.
2. You are not going to find out where he fits athletically on a bulletin board for crying out loud. You will find this out on a baseball field in front of knowledgeable baseball people. Frankly you don’t need this at 14. 16 is a good time to get an idea on where he fits in the baseball world IMO. Frankly if he is at good baseball events, you won’t need to ask. Take him to the USA baseball 16U championships and you will figure this out real quick for yourself where he fits.
3. If you really want to know a "number" take him to a PG event and for $550 you can get a number if you want.
4. You can find out all you need to know “process wise” here. Use HSBBW for that, there is no better place. IMO don’t waist your time trying to figure out his place in the baseball world here.
1. Focus on academics. It will open hundreds of more doors than athletic ability ever will. There is 10x’s more academic money out there than athletic. Too bad there is not a HSAcademicWeb… maybe there is… college board? Don’t know but find it and push him academically NOW.
2. You are not going to find out where he fits athletically on a bulletin board for crying out loud. You will find this out on a baseball field in front of knowledgeable baseball people. Frankly you don’t need this at 14. 16 is a good time to get an idea on where he fits in the baseball world IMO. Frankly if he is at good baseball events, you won’t need to ask. Take him to the USA baseball 16U championships and you will figure this out real quick for yourself where he fits.
3. If you really want to know a "number" take him to a PG event and for $550 you can get a number if you want.
4. You can find out all you need to know “process wise” here. Use HSBBW for that, there is no better place. IMO don’t waist your time trying to figure out his place in the baseball world here.
quote:Originally posted by infielddad:
"As an "old timer" who has enjoyed this site immensely over the years, and gained far more than I could ever give, my honest and immediate thought is why is there such a need to know at ages 14-15?"
infielddad, thank you for your thoughtful post.
I think the answer to this question is actually contained in some of the other things you talk about in your post, and you even say you understand and appreciate why people in my position think we "need" to know at that age.
At the risk of incurring more wrath, I will explain from personal experience, much as I did in my first post ever here.
I came to HSBBWeb because my son had success at decent showcases that brought with them attention. Select team invites, tournament team invites, coaches coming out of the woodwork to ask me questions, letters from coaches with camp invites (which I now know - thanks to HSBBWeb - don't mean anything, but I didn't know that then, and that was just a few months ago).
Among that newfound attention was NCSA, who was offering free websites and free consultations, etc., etc., and while I heard them out, I definitely wanted to find out more and what others thought and that is how I found HSBBWeb.
I know "old timers" appreciate this, but it is important to reiterate that the context of recruiting that they may have gone through is different from what we're going through now. You described very well many of those things, and I hope I did too.
It is very easy to look back after success and just tell other to relax and sit back (which sounds a bit like the "it/they will come to you" advice that is roundly criticized here). It is far harder when you are in the middle of fielding inquiries and offers you don't understand the significance of, not to worry about how to spend limited resources while at the same time maximizing opportunity for your son in an appropriate forum at the appropriate time. The "how does my son stack up" questions come because there is a lot of money tied up in figuring out the appropriate forum at the appropriate time, and a strong sense of not wanting to "miss out" when peers of your son are doing X, Y, and Z at earlier and earlier and earlier ages.
Does that make sense? Your perspective makes sense to me, too - I get that there is so much ground to cover between now and the end of HS that many of you will think of these questions as premature. But that's the best I can do for now at explaining why I ask anyway....
quote:what sorts of markers (athletic and otherwise) do we see in players at the beginning of HS who later become successful and worth "the deadly trinity" of time, financial, and emotional investment required?
Time: There's no such thing as committing too much time as long as dad and son are meeting their other responsibilities.
Financial: Don't spend more than you can afford.
Emotional: Keep a balanced view of your son's potential. Let others who know what they're talking about tell you how good he is.
I recommend you put into it whatever you can afford in these three areas, don't expect a return on investment other than your son's commitment to be the best player he can be, and enjoy the ride.
quote:Originally posted by BOF:
"...2. You are not going to find out where he fits athletically on a bulletin board for crying out loud. You will find this out on a baseball field in front of knowledgeable baseball people. Frankly you don’t need this at 14. 16 is a good time to get an idea on where he fits in the baseball world IMO. Frankly if he is at good baseball events, you won’t need to ask. Take him to the USA baseball 16U championships and you will figure this out real quick for yourself where he fits."
Thanks BOF for another thoughtful response. Your #4 actually is really good food for thought about how most of the "old timers" view the role of HSBBWeb.
A couple of comments, though.
First, there are a LOT of "knowledgeable baseball people" on this board! I know it is not as good as being evaluated "on the field" but that costs $$$ and deciding where to do that is important. Is posting a description of your kid and hoping to get some help with a little "pre-fitting" based on that description such a crime?
The other thing is, my son is 15 now (turned 15 in August), and is playing 16U. He did play USA Baseball at the rising 16U level and will again next summer. So I think the question is more timely than I am being given credit for.
And I disagree that participating in USA Baseball will tell you real quick where a kid fits. For one thing, the evaluators at NTIS didn't say much to us. For another, early experiences at that level of competition raise as many questions as they answer. There is clearly an "elite" notch there and frankly I didn't see my kid being part of that. He is part of the vast middle - looks like he belongs, but essentially average at that level, but on the other hand, just being there means something - that you should be paying more attention, something.
What does that mean? I have no idea. It made me more confused and anxious about whether I am/was doing the right things for my son, and how much sacrifice to make, than it did to clear anything up.
Many times I've heard the suggestion... Just sit back and relax. In fact, not sure, but I might have told a few people that myself.
I'm sure some are much better than others when it comes to sitting back and relaxing. However, we see thousands of parents every year and I see very few that appear to be relaxed.
Personally I don't see anything wrong if someone feels like bragging about their son. More wrong, are those that would be ashamed of their son. Besides, when someone comes on here and talks about there son, I hardly ever know who there son is. For that matter, I seldom even know who the poster is. So without anyone knowing who is who, how do we define it as bragging?
There's nothing wrong with seeking answers here. Unfortunately there are times when the true answer is something people don't want to hear. Fact is, when it comes to recruiting, professional baseball and other things people want to know about, there are no exact right answers. This site is full of parents and players who have experienced some success. Each and every one of them has a different story. Yes, might be many things in common, but just as many that took completely different paths.
No one really knows what's best for your children. What will give them the best chance to be successful. Yet, everyone's suggestions based on their own experience can be helpful. My thinking is simple... It's your kid... You do it your way and pray that it works out!
People ask me for advice a lot... Should I sign? Which college? Who should I get for an advisor? and many other things. My standard answer is, I don't give advice when it comes to certain things because whatever advice I might give could turn out to be the worst advice you ever received. There are some decisions that are your responsibility. I can share knowledge, though and I think that is what most people try to do here.
Hope I haven't sidetracked this thread even more.
I'm sure some are much better than others when it comes to sitting back and relaxing. However, we see thousands of parents every year and I see very few that appear to be relaxed.
Personally I don't see anything wrong if someone feels like bragging about their son. More wrong, are those that would be ashamed of their son. Besides, when someone comes on here and talks about there son, I hardly ever know who there son is. For that matter, I seldom even know who the poster is. So without anyone knowing who is who, how do we define it as bragging?
There's nothing wrong with seeking answers here. Unfortunately there are times when the true answer is something people don't want to hear. Fact is, when it comes to recruiting, professional baseball and other things people want to know about, there are no exact right answers. This site is full of parents and players who have experienced some success. Each and every one of them has a different story. Yes, might be many things in common, but just as many that took completely different paths.
No one really knows what's best for your children. What will give them the best chance to be successful. Yet, everyone's suggestions based on their own experience can be helpful. My thinking is simple... It's your kid... You do it your way and pray that it works out!
People ask me for advice a lot... Should I sign? Which college? Who should I get for an advisor? and many other things. My standard answer is, I don't give advice when it comes to certain things because whatever advice I might give could turn out to be the worst advice you ever received. There are some decisions that are your responsibility. I can share knowledge, though and I think that is what most people try to do here.
Hope I haven't sidetracked this thread even more.
quote:what sorts of markers (athletic and otherwise) do we see in players at the beginning of HS who later become successful and worth "the deadly trinity" of time, financial, and emotional investment required?
EdgarFan, I for one applaud your recent posts. The initial descriptions about your son did appear like a Scouting report and based upon that alone, I would have advised you to begin looking for his agent now! But, we now know that bragging about your boy, was not your intention. And to your point, often questions and OP go unanswered. But, that probably won't change.
I refer to your rephrased question above; asking about signs, or markers that might indicate or even predict if a player at 15 has what it takes to ...... at age 18?
That is the question that no one in baseball, or parenting, without the proverbial crystal ball, can answer! If it were possible, coaches recruiters and scouts would never miss!
Can you see why there might be a whole bunch of stuttering go on in trying to address a question like that? InfieldDad summed up the thoughts of many; "is there such a need to know at ages 14-15?
My advice to all asking about College, is don't take any steps for granted along the way. I believe the next one would be to make and play on the Varsity team at his high school?
For the record; NCAA statistics report that 2% of high school athletes attend College on some measure of an athletic scholarship (that includes all Divisions that award athletic scholarships). The percentage in baseball is a little bit higher, about 5% the last time I looked. Parents can do the math, it is simple. The average HS baseball team may have 20, at most on their Roster. That means, ONE, on average nationally, will play College baseball under scholarship! About 5% from College earn the opportunity to play professionally.
So endorsing and supporting their dream, and perhaps our dream of them continuing to play baseball into College, is an understandable endeavor. But don't invest heavily in the trilogy, RJM referred to, as the payback is not there. The return for time spent in the classroom would undoubtedly be greater in MOST cases!
Thanks to all as I have learned something about underlying dynamics that can be prevalent in our site. I vow to answer the question or refrain from responding.
bballdad2016,
Your apology is accepted, sometime things posted just come out all wrong, happens often. My intentions are often misunderstood, however, I am the first to admit I am not a vanilla poster, and if you didn't realize it then, you should now.
I am more of a tough love person, I wish that someone here would have given me some of the advice that is often now given here, but when I first came that wasn't happening. There was only one person that was posting at the time, that I could relate my son's circumstance too, and I hung on to every word he would say. That was about 10-11 years ago and one of the reasons I stayed here was because I hoped to make this place better to help parents through a difficult situation. As JH posted, it may not always be to your liking, but maybe some day you will look back and understand.
Edgarfan,
My intention was to get your attention, and I guess that I did.
I understand your need to try to figure out, now, where your son fits into the scheme of things. But something tells me that you already know that. If your son at 15 is getting attention than most likely he is pretty good. There are some people here whose sons don't get the attention until late in HS, so consider yourself fortunate. Somtimes it's easier when you have a very talented player and sometimes it's harder. Again try to enjoy this time and when the time is ready (perhaps next year) attend a PG showcase for an evaluation. Then you won't have to sit and worry where he might fit in.
You do not have to spend unlimited resources at this time. Contact catchersdad, he is from your neck of the woods, he can give you good advice.
Your apology is accepted, sometime things posted just come out all wrong, happens often. My intentions are often misunderstood, however, I am the first to admit I am not a vanilla poster, and if you didn't realize it then, you should now.
I am more of a tough love person, I wish that someone here would have given me some of the advice that is often now given here, but when I first came that wasn't happening. There was only one person that was posting at the time, that I could relate my son's circumstance too, and I hung on to every word he would say. That was about 10-11 years ago and one of the reasons I stayed here was because I hoped to make this place better to help parents through a difficult situation. As JH posted, it may not always be to your liking, but maybe some day you will look back and understand.
Edgarfan,
My intention was to get your attention, and I guess that I did.
I understand your need to try to figure out, now, where your son fits into the scheme of things. But something tells me that you already know that. If your son at 15 is getting attention than most likely he is pretty good. There are some people here whose sons don't get the attention until late in HS, so consider yourself fortunate. Somtimes it's easier when you have a very talented player and sometimes it's harder. Again try to enjoy this time and when the time is ready (perhaps next year) attend a PG showcase for an evaluation. Then you won't have to sit and worry where he might fit in.
You do not have to spend unlimited resources at this time. Contact catchersdad, he is from your neck of the woods, he can give you good advice.
quote:Originally posted by RJM:
Time: There's no such thing as committing too much time as long as dad and son are meeting their other responsibilities.
Financial: Don't spend more than you can afford.
Emotional: Keep a balanced view of your son's potential. Let others who know what they're talking about tell you how good he is.
I recommend you put into it whatever you can afford in these three areas, don't expect a return on investment other than your son's commitment to be the best player he can be, and enjoy the ride.
Thanks again, RJM.
It's funny, of the three, time is something I have never hesitated to give. In fact, my "oppo pet peeve" would probably be the development of my relationship with my son as a direct result of all the time we spend together through baseball, and the common passion we enjoy for the game. And my "pet peeve" is a related one - baseball parents who never spend any time with their boys developing their game, who then say things like "Your son as such NATURAL talent!" As if the 30,000 BP pitches I've thrown to him had nothing to do with it! Anyway, I'm unlikely to shortchange the kid on investment of time anytime soon.
I think I'm going to be fine with the emotional side of it, even though I know it will be a roller coaster. I am truly fine with my son ending up anywhere and doing anything, as long as he is happy.
It is really the financial side of it that causes me anxiety. I had another child, a daughter. Is it fair to her, all this baseball money spent on him? Even within "what you can afford" how much is enough, how do you decide where best to spend it, and how do you find an appropriate balance? All of these questions have been exacerbated by the downturn in the economy, too.
At this point I am really just venting my anxiety. It is pretty clear that there isn't much anybody but me, and my son (perhaps aided by a PG event - PGStaff, I may have to PM you to find out about that!) can do to answer these questions.
Thank you all for your patience and help.
EdgarFan,
I just used the USA baseball 16U tournament as an example; it could be any major event for that matter. For me at least, I did not need anyone else to tell me where my son fit when he went to that tournament. I was amazed at the collection of talent there, but I saw with my own eyes that he belonged. From there we started the process of searching and playing in events that colleges went to, and the more he played with top level players, the more we figured out where he really fit. This is where HSBBW comes in, as there are more choices than you have time or money. There are national events, local events, high academic events, regional events, invite only events, etc etc. This is where, at least for me, that this place is invaluable. As far as where he REALLY fits, it becomes self evident in the process as the colleges that think he fits call, the others don’t.
My son is playing college ball right now for two reasons. 1) He had the talent and worked harder than anyone at his HS. 2) His grades and test scores. (he is on academic scholarship)
Don’t neglect number 2!
I just used the USA baseball 16U tournament as an example; it could be any major event for that matter. For me at least, I did not need anyone else to tell me where my son fit when he went to that tournament. I was amazed at the collection of talent there, but I saw with my own eyes that he belonged. From there we started the process of searching and playing in events that colleges went to, and the more he played with top level players, the more we figured out where he really fit. This is where HSBBW comes in, as there are more choices than you have time or money. There are national events, local events, high academic events, regional events, invite only events, etc etc. This is where, at least for me, that this place is invaluable. As far as where he REALLY fits, it becomes self evident in the process as the colleges that think he fits call, the others don’t.
My son is playing college ball right now for two reasons. 1) He had the talent and worked harder than anyone at his HS. 2) His grades and test scores. (he is on academic scholarship)
Don’t neglect number 2!
quote:Don’t neglect number 2!
I have gotten the impression on this board that a lot of the recruitment anxiety is caused by parents and players worried that they might be 'leaving something on the table' scholarship wise if they aren't seen by every coach in the country.
Having the grades and test scores to earn academic money allows you to relax and pick a school rather than hope a school picks you...
Be more concerned the investment in time is equal. I have a daughter five years older than my son. She's also an athlete. She played college softball. When she was going through the process I worked very hard to make sure my son was getting equal time. I coached both. I figured out one year I attended about 120 baseball and softball games between the two of them. I missed very few games. At the time they were also playing five other sports over the course of the year.quote:I had another child, a daughter. Is it fair to her, all this baseball money spent on him?
Financially, when the time comes you will figure out the level he can potentially play, make a list of schools and figure the most affordable way to get in front of as many as possible.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PGStaff:
"Personally I don't see anything wrong if someone feels like bragging about their son. More wrong, are those that would be ashamed of their son. Besides, when someone comes on here and talks about there son, I hardly ever know who there son is. For that matter, I seldom even know who the poster is. So without anyone knowing who is who, how do we define it as bragging?"
Wow do I agree on this one. If someone tells us how good their kid is, it is simply their opinion and evaluation. It means nothing more. So what if they are wrong? So what if they are being modest? It's only an opinion that the parent is willing to post on a website.
"Personally I don't see anything wrong if someone feels like bragging about their son. More wrong, are those that would be ashamed of their son. Besides, when someone comes on here and talks about there son, I hardly ever know who there son is. For that matter, I seldom even know who the poster is. So without anyone knowing who is who, how do we define it as bragging?"
Wow do I agree on this one. If someone tells us how good their kid is, it is simply their opinion and evaluation. It means nothing more. So what if they are wrong? So what if they are being modest? It's only an opinion that the parent is willing to post on a website.
Edgar Fan, good to hear from the NW. I certainly did not get offended by your original question. There are many good posters on this site and they have given great advice. Keep your head up and by all means don't let a few high handed posters keep you from posting. Like any school bully I still believe the best response is to ignore them.
I can never aspire to PG, or Coach May's level of knowledge or wisdom, just pleased we have them here.
Best wishes for your son and his baseball journey.
I can never aspire to PG, or Coach May's level of knowledge or wisdom, just pleased we have them here.
Best wishes for your son and his baseball journey.
Edgarfan,
I have spent an awful lot of time over the years watching younger players.
My assessment after all of these years can be condensed into a few points:
1) Comparing stages of skill/development at 14 years old is a completely useless exercise.
2) From 14 to 16 - or from 14 to 18 - you will see every twist and turn imaginable - on a consistent basis. The stud at 14 - becomes the dud at 18. The guy you never noticed at 14 becomes the best player on the field at 18 etc...
3) If your son desires to continue to pursue greater heights in the game - the best bet is to work at each aspect of the game one step at a time.
If he is fast now - work at gaining another step or cutting the bag one step quicker. If he has a quick release at 2nd base - work at getting a little bit quicker. When he reaches goals like that - do it again.
4) Pick the people you listen to for advice very carefully. Most people I have listened to were dead wrong. A very select few knew what advice to give and what advice not to give. In almost every case - the good advice was centered around getting incrementally better - and not about projection of the ultimate destination.
5) Never - ever - get caught up in the hype. Hype sells - hype makes money for people - but hype never makes a player better.
Remember - focus on the next step - spend whatever time you like on the game - spend whatever amount of money you like on the game. There is no right amount of time nor is there any correct amount of money. Ultimately - you will wind up doing what your heart and mind tell you to do anyway.
When your son has reached his peak - he will know it. When he has lost his desire to continue - he will know it.
Keep it simple - focus on the next step. Don't waste time projecting - spend time doing and the answers will eventually come, whether you like them or not.
And enjoy it all - it goes real fast.
I have spent an awful lot of time over the years watching younger players.
My assessment after all of these years can be condensed into a few points:
1) Comparing stages of skill/development at 14 years old is a completely useless exercise.
2) From 14 to 16 - or from 14 to 18 - you will see every twist and turn imaginable - on a consistent basis. The stud at 14 - becomes the dud at 18. The guy you never noticed at 14 becomes the best player on the field at 18 etc...
3) If your son desires to continue to pursue greater heights in the game - the best bet is to work at each aspect of the game one step at a time.
If he is fast now - work at gaining another step or cutting the bag one step quicker. If he has a quick release at 2nd base - work at getting a little bit quicker. When he reaches goals like that - do it again.
4) Pick the people you listen to for advice very carefully. Most people I have listened to were dead wrong. A very select few knew what advice to give and what advice not to give. In almost every case - the good advice was centered around getting incrementally better - and not about projection of the ultimate destination.
5) Never - ever - get caught up in the hype. Hype sells - hype makes money for people - but hype never makes a player better.
Remember - focus on the next step - spend whatever time you like on the game - spend whatever amount of money you like on the game. There is no right amount of time nor is there any correct amount of money. Ultimately - you will wind up doing what your heart and mind tell you to do anyway.
When your son has reached his peak - he will know it. When he has lost his desire to continue - he will know it.
Keep it simple - focus on the next step. Don't waste time projecting - spend time doing and the answers will eventually come, whether you like them or not.
And enjoy it all - it goes real fast.
Its...simply an awesome post. 
Gamer, one of the best posts I have ever read. You don't post very often here anymore. But you make up for it in the quality of them. If there is one person I make sure I read everything they write here its you. Your real. You are the truth. Thanks
Hello Coach! - I have been completely consumed with work the last 6 months.
It is getting better and I hope to spend more time here soon.
I miss it alot - I miss reading the stories and opinions - I miss the fellowship - and I miss the discussions with you and others very much.
It is getting better and I hope to spend more time here soon.
I miss it alot - I miss reading the stories and opinions - I miss the fellowship - and I miss the discussions with you and others very much.
its - where in the he-double hockey sticks have you been? 
Work is not a good excuse. I like money as much as the next guy but "quality" time is more valuable...
Either way, all sins are forgiven when you post a classic post like that. I especially like the part about hype
Either way, all sins are forgiven when you post a classic post like that. I especially like the part about hype
Hey CD! - I have been doing my best to follow Tyler - he is doing great!!!
The work thing has been hard. It is a pretty big company - and we are selling about 65% of it. I am the COO of the company and in addition to executing the actual transaction - I have to manage the effects on about 250 people who wont be with us come early spring.
It is going very well - but I cant wait for it to be over.
The work thing has been hard. It is a pretty big company - and we are selling about 65% of it. I am the COO of the company and in addition to executing the actual transaction - I have to manage the effects on about 250 people who wont be with us come early spring.
It is going very well - but I cant wait for it to be over.
Great post and great to see you back!
Welcome back itsinthegame, great points and all 100% on target!
Thanks.
Thanks.
itsinthegame... simply well put.
Mr. itsinthegame...You've got game sir!
Have not read the whole thread but I believe you summarized what's really important and what needs to be placed in perpspective.
My only son will be turning 18 this month and it was nice seeing him grow as a player and more importantly as a son.
It seems to us that he might be able to play at the next level based on all indications.
I am just grateful that he will have that chance to play at whatever level of baseball he decides on doing after this season. Our wish is to spend all the time we can with him during this senior year and support him 110% with his decision.
I may need to start finding that thread about the empty nest.
Have not read the whole thread but I believe you summarized what's really important and what needs to be placed in perpspective.
My only son will be turning 18 this month and it was nice seeing him grow as a player and more importantly as a son.
It seems to us that he might be able to play at the next level based on all indications.
I am just grateful that he will have that chance to play at whatever level of baseball he decides on doing after this season. Our wish is to spend all the time we can with him during this senior year and support him 110% with his decision.
I may need to start finding that thread about the empty nest.
I have been unable to visit and puruse the board much in the past couple of days, so I am a bit tardy with "thank yous" to Pop Up Hitter Dad and itsinthegame for their feedback, insight, and well-wishes. It is much appreciated.
Toward the end of this thread, I began to crystallize my thinking on what it was I've been struggling with, which is mostly how to figure out which levels of expensive camps, showcases, etc., make the most sense as I don't have unlimited funds and want to spend what I have in the most efficient and useful way for wherever my kid "projects.". What this thread has taught me is that it is best to just keep your head down, work hard to get better incrementally, and see what offers come your way (at which point feedback on this board will probably point you in the right direction, if there are questions about which are appropriate by age, good, etc.). So that's what we're gonna do.
Thanks to everyone who posted in response to my question. Whether you were offended by my post or not, I learned something from ALL of you.
Happy Holidays to all, from the cage for a few hours before the neighborhood Christmas Party!
Toward the end of this thread, I began to crystallize my thinking on what it was I've been struggling with, which is mostly how to figure out which levels of expensive camps, showcases, etc., make the most sense as I don't have unlimited funds and want to spend what I have in the most efficient and useful way for wherever my kid "projects.". What this thread has taught me is that it is best to just keep your head down, work hard to get better incrementally, and see what offers come your way (at which point feedback on this board will probably point you in the right direction, if there are questions about which are appropriate by age, good, etc.). So that's what we're gonna do.
Thanks to everyone who posted in response to my question. Whether you were offended by my post or not, I learned something from ALL of you.
Happy Holidays to all, from the cage for a few hours before the neighborhood Christmas Party!
Hopefully this will help out use2be and EdgarFan and others a bit...Let's call it The Tale of Two's Two Sons! My oldest is a freshman in college and my youngest a sophomore in HS. Each had a fairly similar early history and both wanted to play baseball. Of course, the older son's advantage was early dedicated time to him and the younger son's advantage was learning from his older brother and trying to keep up with "the big boys". Both did well in LL and played travel around the LL season. Occasionally they were each the best on their team, but they were regular starters and were happy to play any position you asked them to. At the risk of bragging, the one thing I will give my boys LOTS of credit for is learning the mental side of the game even early on and that helped them to become better players.
Time shift to my older son's 14U travel season. Some of our kids were 14 year old HS freshman, but most (son included) were in 8th grade. All the HS kids made their HS teams and out of necessity, the coach "borrowed" my younger son (then 11) a few times to play with the 14U team when they didn't have enough kids due to conflicts with HS. He did OK, played 2B - even got a hit or two. I about died when the coach put him on the hill against a 14/15 local Babe Ruth All Star team in a scrimmage since he'd never pitched on the larger diamond, but he survived the inning.
Time shift again to younger son at 13U. He loved pitching and was the best pitcher on a not so good team. That said, at 13, he had 7 complete games (none over 100 pitches) over the summer and was looking forward to a better fall team at 14U. At this point for the older son, he was playing mostly at 3B and I actually had a coach tell me not to let coaches play him at any other position unless they needed him on the mound. Like I can or would tell that to the HS coach.
Younger son wasn't given the opportunity to pitch in the fall (long story with no point to it) and spent his spring in a house lacrosse league learning that game which he really seemed to enjoy. Older son was playing SS for his HS team.
I'd say we learned (here and elsewhere) a bit late about some of the things we should do regarding recruiting, but he was offered a position on a solid showcase team for the summer after his Junior year and had some options to play in college. I'd say he found the best fit for him to include baseball, school / class size, and academics. He has a chance to be starting at SS this spring.
While he always enjoyed going out to throw the ball or take some grounders, he wasn't one to do much in the way of additional work...I saw a definite shift in his approach to that in high school as he saw others putting in time in the weight room, cages, etc. The older he got, the more effort he was putting in and, based on our conversations, he's doing even more of that on his own this year.
Younger son has jumped into lacrosse with both feet and from the start of his freshman year has been putting in lots of additional effort. He made the team and has never looked back to baseball.
Stepping back and trying to compare the boys for the sake of this discussion, both boys loved playing baseball and both were good at the game. I think my younger son's advantage of trying to keep up with the big boys might have made him a better player at any given age, but not by any significant amount. However, we noticed early on that he just didn't seem to have the passion that his older brother had for the game. We thought it might be just the difference in age, but we'll never know for sure. I will say he is passionate about lacrosse in the same way his brother is about baseball. I will say that I am very disappointed and elated at the same time about his switching to lacrosse. LOVE the fact that he's found something he loves and is good at and I am really enjoying watching him play, but disappointed as I was hoping for a few more years of HS baseball. I have to add that last spring every one of the HS baseball coaches asked him if he was "really" enjoying lacrosse and mentioned that baseball was still an option...He said "Thanks, but no..."
Sorry for the long reply, but I hope it will help comparing how two kids from the same family went different directions from 14U forward...
Time shift to my older son's 14U travel season. Some of our kids were 14 year old HS freshman, but most (son included) were in 8th grade. All the HS kids made their HS teams and out of necessity, the coach "borrowed" my younger son (then 11) a few times to play with the 14U team when they didn't have enough kids due to conflicts with HS. He did OK, played 2B - even got a hit or two. I about died when the coach put him on the hill against a 14/15 local Babe Ruth All Star team in a scrimmage since he'd never pitched on the larger diamond, but he survived the inning.
Time shift again to younger son at 13U. He loved pitching and was the best pitcher on a not so good team. That said, at 13, he had 7 complete games (none over 100 pitches) over the summer and was looking forward to a better fall team at 14U. At this point for the older son, he was playing mostly at 3B and I actually had a coach tell me not to let coaches play him at any other position unless they needed him on the mound. Like I can or would tell that to the HS coach.
Younger son wasn't given the opportunity to pitch in the fall (long story with no point to it) and spent his spring in a house lacrosse league learning that game which he really seemed to enjoy. Older son was playing SS for his HS team.
I'd say we learned (here and elsewhere) a bit late about some of the things we should do regarding recruiting, but he was offered a position on a solid showcase team for the summer after his Junior year and had some options to play in college. I'd say he found the best fit for him to include baseball, school / class size, and academics. He has a chance to be starting at SS this spring.
While he always enjoyed going out to throw the ball or take some grounders, he wasn't one to do much in the way of additional work...I saw a definite shift in his approach to that in high school as he saw others putting in time in the weight room, cages, etc. The older he got, the more effort he was putting in and, based on our conversations, he's doing even more of that on his own this year.
Younger son has jumped into lacrosse with both feet and from the start of his freshman year has been putting in lots of additional effort. He made the team and has never looked back to baseball.
Stepping back and trying to compare the boys for the sake of this discussion, both boys loved playing baseball and both were good at the game. I think my younger son's advantage of trying to keep up with the big boys might have made him a better player at any given age, but not by any significant amount. However, we noticed early on that he just didn't seem to have the passion that his older brother had for the game. We thought it might be just the difference in age, but we'll never know for sure. I will say he is passionate about lacrosse in the same way his brother is about baseball. I will say that I am very disappointed and elated at the same time about his switching to lacrosse. LOVE the fact that he's found something he loves and is good at and I am really enjoying watching him play, but disappointed as I was hoping for a few more years of HS baseball. I have to add that last spring every one of the HS baseball coaches asked him if he was "really" enjoying lacrosse and mentioned that baseball was still an option...He said "Thanks, but no..."
Sorry for the long reply, but I hope it will help comparing how two kids from the same family went different directions from 14U forward...
Nice post.
quote:Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Edgarfan,
I have spent an awful lot of time over the years watching younger players.
My assessment after all of these years can be condensed into a few points:
1) Comparing stages of skill/development at 14 years old is a completely useless exercise.
When your son has reached his peak - he will know it. When he has lost his desire to continue - he will know it.
Very well said Itsinthegame!
Since the youngest is 14 I have no idea what level he will finally top out at.
I figure he will find out pretty soon how good he really is. I am happy with whatever happens as long as he acheives his potential. I never looked on the kid as a sure fire anything. If he stops as a freshman playing baseball but graduates high school with a high gpa I will be ecstatic.
I figure he will find out pretty soon how good he really is. I am happy with whatever happens as long as he acheives his potential. I never looked on the kid as a sure fire anything. If he stops as a freshman playing baseball but graduates high school with a high gpa I will be ecstatic.
Wklink, you have a PM.
Got it.
this was a really great topic. i am new to this site but question hit home as my son is also a 2015 and has had success in young past. i think all of us are curious how our kids stack up whether it be academics or athletics. that's just human nature. in order to get better we have to have a starting point and motivation to get better. i also agree with many of the posts that ultimately it is up to our sons as to how far they are able to go. but, having had a close relative just go through this process, i think it is up to us as parents to gently prod our kids. you have to remember that these are young teens that do not view life through the same glasses they will in 5-10 years. problem is, in 5 years its too late. how many of us wish we could go back to age 15 and see the world through the hindsight we have now with experience? most of us were not mature enough or had enough experience to make the best choices as we measure them now. sorry to ramble on so for my first post. i have been a member here for about four months but have never posted. i have received many valuable tips throughout these various posts. i can't imagine how some of you feel now that you have enden or are nearing the end of your son's career, whatever level that may be. there really is nothing i value more than watching my kid's compete in sports. there are so many valuable life lessons one can take from competing in team sports. again, great post from all involved, old and new.
quote:Since the youngest is 14 I have no idea what level he will finally top out at.
I figure he will find out pretty soon how good he really is.
Yes he will. But it's also important for you and him to realize that what he finds out about where he is now, at age 14, doesn't say a whole lot about where he will be, or could be later down the road!
He could dygress or dramatically improve his relative position as he gets older.
Some of the positioning is out of his control, but much depends upon how hard he works, how smart he works and perhaps a little good luck thrown in there for good measure!
Very true.
I figure as long as he enjoys playing I could care less if he plays Varsity, JV or C-team for the rest of his time. If he works hard and does his best then he is a success, no matter where he ends up on some roster.
I figure as long as he enjoys playing I could care less if he plays Varsity, JV or C-team for the rest of his time. If he works hard and does his best then he is a success, no matter where he ends up on some roster.
quote:Originally posted by Wklink:
Very true.
I figure as long as he enjoys playing I could care less if he plays Varsity, JV or C-team for the rest of his time. If he works hard and does his best then he is a success, no matter where he ends up on some roster.
That's a very healthy outlook that will serve you both well. Most importantly, I believe, is that it will keep the father and son relationship based on more relevant factors! Best of luck down the road..