What should constitute TAPPS post-season recognition?

how big a battle is the coach willing to fight to get his kids recognized? some more than others i guess. that's the guy i want coaching my kid. one that will put it out there for the kids they are committed to.

It is a bunch of politics and how much the coaches are willing to fight for their guys. Coaches team up together and feel having a bunch of players on the all district team makes them look better. Other coaches let their record do the talking. Last time I checked, winning district games and winning in the playoffs are what coaches are supposed to do.

It is pretty interesting that Nolan,Lynch,and TCA's players got short changed by two new schools to the district. They were by far the best three teams in the district and you can tell by their record and their playoff success. Lynch had a few players who are playing in college on scholarship next year not even make it. Pretty Ridiculous.

It is a no win situation, and it really stinks for the kids who had great years but again it comes down to how much a coach fights for his players. Baseball is just like Washington all POLITICS.

quote:

how much the coaches are willing to fight for their guys

Sounds to me like your beef should be with your coach who didn't care enough to fight for his guys...not the process. If a coach who knows his player best doesn't fight for him, why would anyone else vote for him?

Great comments all, and I would love to see more. I've always felt team accomplishments should be taken into consideration for post-season awards, and it certainly appears TAPPS D1-5A didn't do that (except for the eight Lynch players voted 1st and 2nd team all-district, which was deserved based on their individual and team performances).

Conversly, good players are often on "underperforming" teams, and they shouldn't be punished for something they can't control. However, when I see five and six kids named all-district for 4th and 5th place teams respectively it's pretty ridiculous. All the coaches in the division should recognize how such inequities stand out like a sore thumb. If any coaches should be held accountable, it's the ones from under-performing teams who ram-rodded in their own players for all-district at what would appear to be the expense of the high-performing teams.

While politics at the district level is understandable, I still don't get what happened at the all-state level. Five Grapevine 1st amd 2nd team all-staters versus only three from Lynch, one from TCA and one from Nolan is more than strange. Of course, Harlingen Marine Military who lost to D1-5A last place team Dunne in the first round of the playoffs, got four 1st and 2nd teamers, which is probably a testiment to the validity of such post-season lists to begin with

rather than "held accountable" it should read "be commended". clearly these two coaches went to battle for the kids they were responsible for. great job coach maack and coach ford!! all kids should play for coaches with such devotion.

quote:

rather than "held accountable" it should read "be commended". clearly these two coaches went to battle for the kids they were responsible for. great job coach maack and coach ford!! all kids should play for coaches with such devotion.

couldn't agree more on both coaches

quote:

However, when I see five and six kids named all-district for 4th and 5th place teams respectively it's pretty ridiculous

That's a ridiculous statement. There were 30 kids named all district in 5A 1...a 7 team district that was very close 1-5. Over half of BL's roster made all district. Did you expect the whole roster to make it?

quote:

Originally posted by FlakAttack:
After seeing the TAPPS 5A All-State and all-district teams that can be found on tapps.org, I was very surprised. I wonder what should constitute recognition for these post-season honors? Maybe some of the braintrust on this site have opinions to share.

Certainly all the young men honored this year for 5A are quality players. However, I find it curious Grapevine Faith, who finished 4th in D1-5A behind Lynch, Nolan and TCA and was one and done in the playoffs, managed five all-district and four all-state honorees. Likewise, Prestonwood Christian Academy, who finished 5th in D1-5A and was ineligible for the playoffs, managed six all-district and one all-state honoree.

I know politics play a big part in post-season honors, but this really seems overboard.

By comparison I only saw four all-district honorees and one all-state honoree for TCA (3rd in 5A behind Lynch and Nolan) and only three all-district and one-state honoree for Nolan. TCA battled Lynch neck-and-neck for first place all season until getting knocked to 3rd place by Lynch and Nolan at the very end. Likewise, Nolan finished 2nd behind Lynch, won 22 games playing a very demanding schedule, and pretty much dominated TCA, Grapevine and Prestonwood in their head-to-head matchups. The honors count was a combined seven all-district and two all-state honorees for TCA and Nolan vs. 11 all-district and five all-state honorees for Grapevine and Prestonwood.

Am I the only one who thinks there's something wrong with this picture? Would love to hear others' comments.

Also, I'm not a big Lynch supporter, but after seeing Lynch play several times this year, it's a crime TJ Martin wasn't named all-state based on the tremendous season he had. That kid is a stud. I didn't see another shortstop who even came close.

Flak & others,

If the posted All-district and All-state teams are not reasonable in your opinion, please define teams that make more sense. Thanks.

Great dialog, guys. I love everyone’s honesty. I guess there’s no right or wrong answers, just opinions. We aren’t privy to the stats presented by each coach to support their players, just the outcomes of the games that are played or what gets published in the newspaper.

If I were a coach who finished in 4th or 5th place, I probably wouldn’t want a lot of first or second team all-district or all-staters. After all, wouldn’t that call into question just how good of a coach I really am? With five all staters on my team, shouldn’t I at least be expected to finish near the top of the district standings and win one or more playoff games?

Here are a few supporting fact.

As far as the strength of D1-5A this year, one through three (Lynch, TCA and Nolan) were close, not one through five. Lynch, TCA and Nolan posted combined district records of 27-8 while going 9-2 versus Grapevine Faith and Prestonwood, outscoring them a whopping 81-36. That, my friends, is domination.

Also, of the eight district losses by Lynch (2), TCA (4) and Nolan (2), five of those were to each other. That means Grapevine and Prestonwood went a combined 2-9 against the top three teams. That said, Lynch was 3-1 vs. TCA and Nolan, outscoring them by a combined 50-13, so they clearly deserved top billing in the division.

I know Grapevine and Prestonwood moved up to 5A this year with great aspirations, especially based on their previous year’s performances, but they found the other 5A teams are not pushovers.

I wasn’t in the room during voting, but from what I gather (and I’m guessing) it sounds like the new coaches on the 5A block banned together and supported each others all-district/all-state nominees while the other pre-existing 5A coaches voted – perhaps naively -- on merit alone. I could be wrong, but I don’t know how else to explain the lack of TCA and Nolan players on the all-district list (yes, Lynch rightfully got the lion’s share) as well as the overall number of Grapevine and Prestonwood players on the all-state list at the expense of Lynch, TCA and Nolan.

I personally believe in district meeting the coaches’ responsibilities are, in this order, to the league, to all the kids representing the league and, lastly, their own players. That’s an altruistic attitude, I know, but this shouldn’t be like Survivor. Politics and personal agendas should be checked at the door.

your arguement doesn't hold up. this is a 7 (i believe) team district. maack and ford could account only for 2 of 7 votes. had to be pulling votes from the other coaches as well. the majority of the coaches on the room must have believed those kids were deserving, and they were. prestonwoods season was derailed by poor teenage decisions, and faith didn't have the pitching to compete game in/game out with the big boys. but, apparently, position by position they had pretty good players, as did prestonwood. i know faith has 3-5 seniors who will continue their baseball careers in college, don't know how many prestonwood has, but i am quessing they will be represented on the college fields.

4Sport, certainly the team performances I pointed out are factual. Certainly I'm just speculataing on the voting block issue.

Grapevine may not have had the pitching to hang, but it doesn’t seem they had the offense either. Save for one 17-run outburst against TCA, they scored 3, 0, 1 and 1 in their head-to-head district games vs. the 1st-3rd D1-5A teams. It’s certainly possible to say the better teams (and not players) won those matchups, and that argument might hold up were it not for so many Grapevine and Prestonwood players receiving honors. John Paul II and Dunne have some good players, too, but they hardly registered on the radar. Are their coaches to blame or was it their poor records? Can’t really speak on Prestonwood’s situation since I don’t know how many district games some of their starters missed.

However, all-district recognition is supposed to be based on performance within the district, and there are only 12 district games. If players didn’t perform well against the top three teams or missed several games and did not build up a strong body of district stats, I guess the question is whether or not those players were deserving of such honors, not whether they are good players, which I’m sure they are.

As I said in my original post, I was a bit taken by the large number of players from 4th and 5th place teams receiving post-season honors. Having followed the district pretty closely and being fortunate to see most of the teams play multiple times through the year in and out of district, I was simply surprised. I was also surprised that D1-5A only got one team past the second round of playoffs, too, but I guess that's best saved for a different post

So would you like to go with a method the current administration would support?

1) Every player who participated in a district game should get all-district.

2) Any player who received 1st team all-district should distribute his award to other players who did not get recognized.

Ya think the Prestonwood coach voted for any of the Bishop Lynch players ---- after the dust up between the coaches?

quote:

Ya think the Prestonwood coach voted for any of the Bishop Lynch players ---- after the dust up between the coaches?

Yes, because he's a man of integrity. You watch too many soap operas.

first timer here, but this is an interesting topic. I found it curious also of the number of Grapevine players on the all district team and all state team. By the way I have a son on that team. Lynch dominated the all district selections and they should. TCA and Nolan were shorted in my opinion. Especially TCA, they had a pitcher that shut us down the second game and he seemed to pitch every big game for them. I don't see him on the all district team. Nolan was a good "TEAM", I don't remember but a couple of outstanding players. Those kids made all district and one made 1st team all state. Ya'll are right, Coach Ford will stand up for his kids. But being one of new teams, not sure we had the support some are suggesting.

To our district record, no excuses here just the facts. Our first game against Lynch, we had 4 starters on the bench for violating team rules and we never played the second game against Nolan because of swine flu, rain and then the playoffs. However Lynch and Nolan put it on us the other games. The second TCA game was a good game we just did not get a timely hit. In the playoffs, we faced Houston Christian and did lose, again a timely hit would have won the game. That's just baseball.

A sad note here. Grapevine did not renew Coach Ford's contract. This did not come from the AD but from the school administration. He is a good man and teaches the kids how to be a "Christian Leader". Coach Ford will be greatly missed. However, he will land on his feet and do another stellar job.

Thanks for the information, goodseats. Really too bad about Coach Ford. It was certainly an up and down season for him, but I'm sure he'll do just fine at his next destination. Agree with your comments about TCA and Nolan. I'm not sure which TCA pitcher you're thinking about, because both McTavish and Hursh were dominant and, rightfully, made 1st team. Nolan only got one 1st team all district (a sophomore catcher, also named all-state) and two 2nd teamers (an infielder and a pitcher). Their record shows that in 11 district games they gave up 1 or 0 runs just six times, so they had some good pitching and defense. For a second place team that only lost two games, Nolan's players certainly didn't get much respect from the league. I guess it's always better for a program to have a good "team" concept vs. good individuals. Arlington Heights almost won a state championship this year using that exact formula.

quote:

Lynch dominated the all district selections and they should. TCA and Nolan were shorted in my opinion. Especially TCA, they had a pitcher that shut us down the second game and he seemed to pitch every big game for them. I don't see him on the all district team.

quote:

I'm not sure which TCA pitcher you're thinking about, because both McTavish and Hursh were dominant and, rightfully, made 1st team.

I could be wrong but I think goodseats is referring to Cole Thompson. He closed against us one game and threw a good game the 2nd time around that eventually got out of hand after he left the game. I also believe that TCA was shorted, not only was their best pitcher left off the list but so was their catcher, Sam Davidson. We have played with and against Sam for years and it is a shame that he was not mentioned, because he is a stellar defensive catcher. Also, both of these players will be playing college baseball in the fall. Cole Thompson will be playing at Centenary (d1 in Louisiana) and Sam Davidson will be playing at the University of the Ozarks (d3 in Arkansas). It is baffling to me that 2 future NCAA athletes were left off the all-district lists.

quote:

I could be wrong but I think goodseats is referring to Cole Thompson... It is baffling to me that 2 future NCAA athletes were left off the all-district lists.

Agreed.

Something else regarding the district list has piqued my interest. One of the schools reported a 1st team honor to a student (announced at school baseball banguet and listed in school communications) but that student is NOT listed on the TAPPS website list (which appears to be the actual source form). What do you make of that?

quote:

Grapevine did not renew Coach Ford's contract. This did not come from the AD but from the school administration. He is a good man and teaches the kids how to be a "Christian Leader". Coach Ford will be greatly missed. However, he will land on his feet and do another stellar job.

Really sorry to hear this. Coach Ford did a great job with those kids. And you're right, he plays the game right on and off the field. Where ever he end up will be lucky to get him.

yes, Cole Thompson is the pitcher. Should have been on an all-district team.

What kids from this district are going to play in All-Star game in July?

quote:

2 future NCAA athletes

In concept, I agree that a high school player who has been deemed by a college coach to be good enough to step up to the next level should be good enough to be named all-district. However, it comes down to how a player performs in his 12 district games vs. the other players at his position. For example, had college-bound Twichell, Hauser or Martin of Lynch had non-college bound players at their positions perform better in district games, I would expect those players to be named all-district. The honors are (or should be) based on performance, not potential or the coach's tenacity in promoting the player. I know of at least three other players who are going on to play college ball from other teams who did not receive all-district honors for that very reason, and there may be more.