What size showcase is right?

You left out the most important info, how good is the player? What showcases has they been invited to?

Many parents and players are compeletely clueless about how good they really are. For one thing most of the HS players will not play college baseball.

Before you start spending $$$ to attend any HS Showcase attend some pro tryout camps and get a reality check whether college baseball is in your future.

Alot of player may have the talent level to play college baseball but they really dont understand the time commitment physicially and mentally to get to the next level.

IMO, a player and his parents have to find a starting point.
A player that is a top player in his own little pond may not be top player compared to the ocean.
I suggest that a player, based on his geographical area begin at a regional showcase. Why jump into the pond, spend money unless you know what other fish you are up against.
My son's first showcase was regional, did well and moved onto one national showcase. At that point it was determined he could compete on a national level, which he did in WWBA competitions and travel tournaments. This eliminated a lot of time and $$ determining where he fit in.

For me it is not size--- a regional/local event can have as many players in attendance as a National event and in some cases even more----the key is what feed back he will get and what level schools are there


The same with a travel team---they can play in a tournament with 16 teams and get seen by as many coaches as if they played in a tournament with 32 teams---it all has to do with location and accessibility to fields---

I think Frank has hit on something very important here. I go to alot of showcase events and just watch players. Im looking for guys I can fill a card out on. The bottom line is I am constantly amazed at the amount of kids at the events that are not even good hs players. Im not trying to be cruel please understand this. Im just being honest.

I have been to some HS showcases and was so embarrassed for some of the young men that were out there because they clearly had no business on a baseball field. Not making fun of them, but simply embarrassed because maybe their parents told them they belonged there (reminds me of Idol) or they didn't know and didn't think to get a 2nd opinion from a HS coach, etc. I don't think you are being cruel Coach by your comments. I know exactly what you are saying. Some may even be kids who were cut from their HS team and are trying to justify why they belong on a team. shrugs.

I certainly don't envy recruiters/scouts at all. I know their job is hard and weary at times.

100 players recently attended an unsigned 08 showcase. I was present and wanted to see if there were going to be some guys I had not seen yet. There were numerous college coaches at the event. The bottom line is there were and are three types of kids present at showcase events.

#1- The guys that have tools that make them stand out above everyone at the event.
#2- The guys that do not stand out above the rest.
#3- The guys that stand out for not having the tools needed to compete with either of the above.

The college coaches are there to see the #1 guys. Out of the 100 guys in attendance 8 fell into the #1 group. 15 fell into the #3 group. 77 were group #2 players.

Again, the college coaches are there to see the guys that have the tools that they believe will play at their level. They are not there to see average players. If you are an outstanding player but your tools do not stand out - Pro Style Tryouts are not a good avenue for you. You will not stand out. And you will not get any bang for your buck.

The 8 guys at this tryout got alot of bang for their buck. They stood out. The rest paid the bills.

Coach May, In your opinion has it always been this way with just a few kids that stand out of the crowd? Or is it that the showcases are a lot more relaxed with their invites?

In my son's case. We requested an invite to a local showcase through a national showcaser. He didn't end up going. Soon thereafter he started getting invites to their national underclass showcases and just about every event they had. It makes me wonder how exclusive they are.

It depends on the showcase. Take PG for example. Their invitation national showcase events are outstanding. You will see numerous outstanding players. At the regional type PG showcase events where its sign up and come not an invitation situation you will see alot of good players. And some average players. And only a few that are not up to snuff so to speak.

What we have around here are showcase events where if you pay the entry fee you are welcome to come and participate. College coaches are called and most are well attended. The problem is alot of people are misinformed. They assume that if their kid goes enough times and gets seen enough times someone will like them. There is no feedback unless you are singled out by a college program for your performance.

Let me be perfectly frank about something here. PG is the best because every kid that attends gets feedback. You are put in their database. And if you get a 7.5 you can go look at every 7.5 at your posistion and get an understanding of what they think. PG events are not cheap. But they imo are well worth the money. You will be evaluated. The staff will talk to your son during the event and will offer tips and advice. You take something away from the event with you. They see thousands of kids every year. They have the type of experience doing this that is invaluable. Trust me they have seen someone that they can compare you to. If fact many kids they can compare you to.

I am not affiliated with PG. My son attended a regional PG event the summer before his soph year in HS. He attended the PG national underclass and PG nationals. He played in several WWBA events. What I can say is being in their data base was huge for my son. PG will not take credit for many things they do. But the fact is they do so much no one knows about.

If your an average player pro style tryouts will not help you. You need to be seen playing the game. You may not have the type of 60 that garners attention. But you may be an outstanding baserunner. You may not show well in bp. But you mash live pitching. You may not have a cannon for an arm. But you can play the he ll out of your posistion. These players I call "Gamers" need to be put in a situation where they can let their tools be seen in action. THEY PLAY ABOVE THEIR TOOLS. If your son falls into this category then he needs to be seen actually playing the game.

Son had been playing on travel teams since the age of 12. Each team was pay to play. At the end of every season coaches would give us an evaluaiton. I trusted the coaches as they all have been real baseball people not just dads. In the back of my mind I have always wondered if the evaluations was influanced by keeping the player and the money in the program. Entering his JR year of high school we wanted some evaluations we feel were not bias on a monthly fee to play. Son attended his first showcase a PG event in the local area. He preformend just above average. He confessed to me that he was nervous and a bit intimated and that affected his performance and his evaluation. A month or so later he attended a baseball factory showcase and did much better and recieved a better evaluation and was invited to one of their training and tournament sessions in Omaha. Son told me he knew what to expect at the baseball factory showcase so he was not intimated and felt more comfortable. Were the invites to the showcases from PG and baseball factory true invites or did my check become the invitation? If son is not going to be among those 8 players that stand out above the rest is there any value in attending showcases? I just don't want to be one of those parents "paying the bills". Is there any value in attending several more showcases? Of course I feel he can play ball after HS maybe not division one, but some where. With all the great info on this site I can see it can get expensive with showcases, propect camps etc.

Thats a great question. What are your sons goals? Play in state? Here in NC the coaches from all levels will attend certain showcase events held each year. Send an email telling the coaches your interested in their school and program and you are going to be at such and such event. Go to the college camps where you can spend time around the coaches and players. Plus they can get to know your kid as well.

I just dont see any use in just attending showcase after showcase for the sake of trying to be seen. Seen by who? If your from NC why showcase in California? Are you trying to go to UCLA? Are they even going to be there? Will they even like you? Dont they have a ton of high caliber players in California in state already? My point is go to a PG type of showcase and get an understanding of where you stand. If your a national level recruit and your willing to go anywhere then fine. If your a potential draft guy thats fine. But if you are a solid player that wants to play in college have a better game plan. Be more of a sniper and less of a shotgun approach.

You can waist alot of money and time. And there can be alot of frustration as well.

Coach May brings up an excellent point. You don't have to showcase in California if you want to go to school in north carolina, etc. We felt that same about the area code games in CA at the time, what was a scout going to see out in california that he wasn't going to notice here in Florida? Geography plays a huge part in the recruting process.

One needs to talk to son to find out what he would like to do, then concentrate on that goal.

Originally son thought he would stay in FL so we concentrated here on a PG showcase. His first PG was basically attended mostly by those who live in here or I do beleive GA. He was not the best at the showcase, neither was he the best at PG National that summer, though he received an excellent rating which I understand is based on future potential?

As a sophmore he had made tryouts for the youth national team, so we knew he could compete nationally. The following summer the PG national was in Omaha and he was there so he attended. He wasn't the best there either, but his rating remained the same. It was consistant, solid top D1 prospect with pro draft potential. We didn't feel the need to do anymore.

Coach May

Your points are well taken

I truly think that the "normal" HS starter has to look around and not just see the trees in the forest---your region is not too much different than ours in terms of the Division II and III programs---this gives the kids a lot of latitude in terms of their talent judgement---as I say to kids--we can evaluate you but the bottom line is simple---if you get 20 letters and 18 are Diviison II and III programs that sort of tells you where your talent lies---and trust me sometimes the player knows it but the parents have to be convinced and that ain't always easy

Another aspect that I have seen come into acute perspective is who the parents are listening to in terms of what they should do. If they listen with the erroneous ear they and their son can be in a load of trouble. They need to be careful here


A final note--- I truly believe that any player who is starting in HS can find a place to play college ball---it may not be where he or his parents want to be but there is a place for him

Coach May

As expected wonderful adivce. Son wants to stay in California. He has picked several colleges at all levels he is interested in here in CA. I will send son to one more PG event for a better understanding where he stands and from that point we will put the scope on the rifle and become that sniper. We missed the prospect camps in our area this year. Should he attend them next year before his Sr. year of HS?

Thanks - TR and TPM

I have always took this approach. If I was not sure I would err on the side of "do it"!

TR makes a good point. If you have attended showcase events and played in showcase tourneys in front of D-1 coaches and no one is calling then they really have given you their input. That does not mean you can not play at that level. It just means that those programs are not interested.

What I have always been miffed about is this desire or this need to play D-1. It does not validate the parent or the player imo. It just means you have an opportunity. Where are you wanted? Do you want to play some baseball and get a college education? It is just a big of accomplishment in my eyes to be wanted by the local juco or D-3 program.

It feels good to be wanted. It does not feel good to sneak in the back door and hope they end up liking you. Every middle school player dreams of playing in HS. Every HS player dreams of playing in college. Every college player dreams of playing pro ball.

I remember a kid I coached against for four years in hs. He went to a D-3 program. He was a solid player with good speed but he was a little small and not very physically developed. He was drafted last year and is a stud now. How many of those D-1 studs went undrafted? Does it matter now where he went? One thing is for sure. No one sitting on the bench gets scouted by the scouts at the games. The guys playing do , at every level of college baseball.

Dont get caught up in where you are. Its not where you are but what you do where you are.

There will always be kids that are more concerned with the name on the jersey than what is the best fit for them. I understand that. Sometimes that big name school is the right fit and the best move for a player. My point is dont get so concerned with the name on the jersey but be more concerned with what is the best fit for you. Both academically and baseball wise.

What I try to preach is baseball is a marathon and not a sprint. You may not be a top tier recruit coming out of hs. But you may be way better than all those guys when you are 21. And the only way you will get a chance to see if that can happen is if you play at the next level , regardless of what level that is.

Coach MAy


Tell them about the Division II and III programs in your area such as Erskine, Mary Washington, Methodist etc---the list goes on and they can play with many Division I programs in the country

Some great information is being shared on this thread for the high school player wanting to play college baseball. Different perspectives from some very knowledgeable baseball people (excluding me).
Fungo

FUNGO


Do not ever exclude yourself from discussions such as this !

There are 14 D-2 programs in our state. There are 4 D-3 prgrams. There are a ton of JUCO's. And then there are 16 D-1 programs.

I have always said that our state is unmatched in the opportunities that are available. Maybe Im a little biased , No I know I am.

The quality of the baseball at these other levels is outstanding. I go to watch many of these teams each year. The D-3 prgrams , Methodist College , NC Wesleyan , Guilford College , Greensboro College are all outstanding academic institutions. And the baseball programs are first rate. The D-2 programs are outstanding as well. TR is correct. Many of these teams can play with anyone. They dont have the quality pitching depth as the D-1 programs but they play high quality baseball and the coaching is first rate.

I have a player at Methodist right now. And I hope to have a couple at NC Wesleyan in a few months. TR is well aware of the quality of these programs and the coaches as well. There is a place for every kid that has the work ethic and desire to play at the next level. No kid should ever have to look in the mirror when he is 40 and wonder if he could have.

I too think there is a lot of valuable information posted here, but would like to add some thoughts. Some might take this as a business thing, but it is very true.

Once we have OKed a request for someone, that player will receive invitations to other events. It’s not a matter of being selective or not, our job is to see players. The same player may never see an invitation to the highly selective events. In many cases we have no idea how talented someone is until we actually see them. We have events that anyone can get into. You pay you’re in… If you can play you will probably be very happy… If you can’t play you might be unhappy and thrown your money out the window.

That said, I once got a call from a parent of a player who had attended one of our events a few years ago. The dad wanted to thank us for everything we did for his son. I couldn’t remember his son so I looked him up on our database. While I’m talking to the dad, I’m reading his son’s old notes and realize that his son was the lowest graded player at that event. Now I’m worried about this thank you call, expecting things to turn bad. The dad went on to tell me that the event he attended was one of the proudest moments of his son’s life. He actually did go on to play DIII baseball, but he will someday be able to tell his kids that he played on the same showcase team with Delmon Young, Lastings Milledge, Chad Billingsley, Scott Kazmir, and a bunch of other first round draft picks. He also realized for the first time that he might not be quite as good as he thought. His dad told me that his son follows these players every day during the season. That call caused me to rethink what I consider most important and what is a waste of time and money. It seems everyone makes up their own mind whether something is worthwhile or not.

Our entire business revolves around identifying baseball players with talent. It doesn’t mean we won’t try to help others when possible. Coach May, mentioned something regarding the top level players and the others. It is odd how people can always learn something new…

Before the Jupiter WWBA this fall we posted all kinds of information about ranked players who were playing in the tournament. It was an innocent thing on our part, but here is what happened. I must have had at least 50 college coaches or MLB scouts thank us for putting out that list of players attending. They said it made their job a little easier having a list to glue in on.

At first I felt kind of proud, thinking we had done something good to help the coaches and scouts. Then as always, we started to follow the game notes from our scouts at every game. All kinds of new names were popping up… Pitchers throwing 92-93 mph that we had never heard of, hitters owning high level pitching, great bodied OFs who could run and hit, Highest level defensive SSs and Cs. Lots of players who were not on the list, better than many who were on the list. While our people saw it all, you couldn’t help but wonder about the pre-tournament list we put together and what those college coaches and scouts were thanking us for. There are always highest level prospects left off lists and in this case our original list, while very good, only told a small part of what was present in Jupiter. We only hope that those scouts and college coaches didn’t miss some very good players because they were geared into our list.

In our job, there is nothing more exciting or fun than finding a good player you had never seen before. I’m expecting to see a lot of those types over the next few days. It’s fun! And coach, believe me, we do notice those guys who don’t tool well, but play lights out. The REAL players! We’ve seen a lot of those types go on to have great college careers and a few who have gone on much farther than that. For people like you and me, those guys stick out like a sore thumb. You just have to put away the gun and the stopwatch and watch them a little closer. There's a lot of room for those types because they are special.

This is a great thread. Son and I have figured out that DI is a long shot. He is looking and would be very happy at a DII, DIII or a Juco. I am proud of him being realistic and working to play ball after HS.

Thanks Jerry! You know how I feel about you guys. I hate I dont have another son to do it all over with again. But I will be there this summer at East Cobb. And I wouldnt miss Jupiter for the world. To me its baseball heaven.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
What I have always been miffed about is this desire or this need to play D-1. It does not validate the parent or the player imo. It just means you have an opportunity. Where are you wanted? Do you want to play some baseball and get a college education? It is just a big of accomplishment in my eyes to be wanted by the local juco or D-3 program.

I agree with the above.

I think some of the most successful players in the college game are those who are realistic and base their decision on that premise. Sometimes things don't work out, but it may not have been because a player was unrealistic, circumstances just prevented you from playing every game, not lack of talent for the level you had chosen.

I will bet the story that PG told is not uncommon. Many players who do attend showcases, may not do as well as they expected and adjust their thinking and direction afterwards, so showcases can prove to be valuable for many in more ways than one.

PG

Great post. It gives a great insight to the value of your events. Thanks.