What would you do?

You can use his kids but if the other coach is there it will be a disaster!! One cook per kitchen. I love democracy, but not when it comes to coaching!!

I am with Doughnutman---there has to be one and one leader only ===otherewise it is mayhem

Look...you can't worry about feelings. Especially when we are talking about adults. Too many good people take the easy way out to avoid confrontations with the people who aren't doing the right thing. If you really believe your way is the best way, then you need to confront the powers that be (including the incumbant) and make your case for the team being yours.

May I ask why you are persona non grata to Babe Ruth?

I have nothing to offer in the way of a solution but I just wanted to say how impressed I am that you are so loyal to your entire team and want to keep the team together.
We experienced just the opposite from our long time travel coach. You are obviously a coach that wants the best for all his players and I hope the players and parents appreciate you!

Do rules prohibit two Legion teams, his and yours?

Is there anyway you can go independent? I know there would be insurance concerns to consider but have a team and develop your own schedule. Granted their won't be any kind of playoff but you will at least be able to control the fate of your team.

Larry - here's a brief overview of where we've come from. hope its not too long..

we started our town travel team when the kids were eight. I was a manager in the rec league, and coach for the travel team. from eight to ten, we were pretty good and won our fair share of games and tournaments. But when we were eleven, we started to slip and the teams that we had our greatest rivalries with started beating us easily. Every year, when we looked at the roster, the manager wouldn't consider other kids who had grown and gotten better. It was more of a "good 'ol boys" club, and he rewarded people who helped him, with roster space and playing time, regardless if their kids were any good. Also, the manager became the president of our little league, so he became judge and jury.

By the time we were twelve, things were really bad. when the team played poorly, he made them run, and yelled and screamed at them. practices were terrible, as he really didn't understand how to coach and help make these kids better (i.e line up all the kids at ss and have them make throws to first). When the manager couldn't make a practice, I took the opportunity to run practices more efficiently, having various stations, working on technique, etc. Also, we had one very good catcher, but a couple of other kids liked to catch. After working with two other kids, I told the manager that they were ready, and able, to contribute behind the plate. Did he ever let them catch? No. Not even when we were up 10-0.

To add to this, the manager's kid ended up starting at 3B every game and made at least two errors a game, either fielding or throwing. and of course, he struck out almost every at-bat, swinging at balls above his head, etc. meanwhile, we had capable kids on the bench who should've gotten time, but didn't. Daddyball at its best. He wasn't interested in the coaches input.

The shinola hit the fan when we went to Cooperstown Dreams Park to play in the summer tournament. The parents were getting frustrated by the lack of change, lack of positive attitude, and lack of results. we went 1-7 in cooperstown, and lost at least 3-4 games that we should've won. Although the Cooperstown experience was great, the actual baseball part was terrible.

Plus there were money issues. We raised about $10K (yes, $10K) for Cooperstown, but the money was never put in a bank. it was under mattresses, in boxes, etc, and there was never an accounting of it. He managed it and was always vague when questions were asked. I'm not saying he stole any of the money, but for that amount, it should've been handled better.

After our summer season, about half of the parents, who trusted me, told me that they would not come back for the next season unless there was a change. I felt the same way myself. We had a meeting (without the manager) and about 8 out of 12 families said they would leave if he stayed on. One parent suggested that I take over. I said that I would if they would stay. They did.

When we were 13, we broke off from the old coach b/c we were tired of "daddy ball" . But remember, the old manager was the president of the league, and well-connected to the Babe Ruth league that we were moving up to. Although I took over the travel team to keep the kids together, he made sure I didn't get to coach in the rec league in Babe Ruth, even though I had won rec championships two years in a row when we were 11 and 12. He had me blackballed, and when the time came for the kids to pick between staying with me playing travel, or playing with him on the Babe Ruth district team, every single one stayed with me. Since then, we are not allowed on town fields and have to play most of our home games on the road (hence my "signiture" at the bottom of all my posts). Now it is 4 years later, and not one kid has left to play Babe Ruth (we play Legion in the summer). They are fiercely loyal to the team, and the parents are too. We have to drive an hour to play a home playoff game away while some 13 yr olds have a practice on the home fields. We are 2nd class citizens in this town to the Babe Ruth league, but it doesn't matter. The former manager is still jealous and resents that we are together, playing better than ever (16-5 last summer). We enjoy playing together, have fun, and respect and work at the game. That's probably why this is such a big issue to us. The Babe Ruth's pettiness may box us out of local fields, but all the players are on my team, and will make up 95% of the varsity team in the next two years.


ok, so it wasn't as short as I had hoped, but alot has happened over the last 8 years!!

I'd stay away from the coach and his players but that presents the Legion problem.

I thought you could have an independent Legion team if you had a Legion member associated with or a coach of the team (not really sure). Will have to do insurance through the Legion.

Are there any other Legion posts willing to sponsor/back you at least in name?

Like what doing with your team; I wouldn't break up that group of kids (and parents). Really, the whole group of you have done a good job keeping the team together. Very rare these days.

Good luck...sounds like you deserve some.

so here's the update. The other coach recognized that he could only get 3-4 of his kids to commit. so he admitted that he'd have to use my 12-14, and his 3-4 for the roster.

so that was good. then I told him that being that we had 80% of the kids, plus we had some sponsorship money associated with one of my coaches ($1,500), as well as our kids not being happy with his style when they played up for him last year, I told him that we wanted our coaching staff to run the team. Well, he did not like that at all. He said that its his team and he has the right to manage it. He said he was easy to get along with, and the kids should have no problem with him. He thought this may be his last year, so he wanted to do it. I told him I understood his point, and we left it at that.

So I talked to my coaches and they, like me, were pretty adament that keeping the team together meant keeping the coaching staff together as well. If the old manager is running the team, with 3-4 of his kids from last year, it will be a mess. Those 3-4 kids, although talented, think that these games are a frat party. They don't hustle, they yell back at the coach, throw helmets, etc. Just a very bad example for my kids, who although not angels, respect the game and play hard.

so the legion meeting was thursday night. the manager said everything was good, even though I left him a voicemail prior to the meeting saying our team was not ok with that arrangement, and that we'd probably play elsewhere this year. I called the league director, and he said that although he would love for the old manager to be gone, there was nothing he could do about it. He said we had until today (sunday) to get it figured out, or we would be gone from legion.

manager hasn't called me back yet. if he doesn't change his mind, his 3-4 kids have no team, so he's screwed. I thought that he would've called me by now to say he understands the situation, but he hasn't. I'm curious if he'll call later before the deadline.

so that's where we're at. not good....

sounds like he's calling your bluff to me.....move on, schedule the best competition you can, the experience your players gain from the top competition will go further than playing in any league for any so called championship. I admire your commitment to the boys and from what I've read, you must be doing the right things if 8 years later you still have the commitment from all of those players and families. Best of Luck to you and the team!

Regardless of where you play, who you play or when you play the important thing is that you have a TEAM. Those kids will benefit more from you standing up for the team and be willing to run through 2 walls instead of 1 based on how you stood up for them.

Once you have that then the sky is the limit as to what you and your coaches can teach them. You will be able to teach them baseball and life lessons like crazy.

Let this jerk suffer and, while I hate to say this, let his kids suffer for his attitude. They put themselves in this position.

You are doing the right thing.

We're putting together a Legion team this year, so I've gotten schooled on what their rules are. S. Abrams has it right, you don't have to have a Legion post sponsor you, as long as you have one Legion member in the team management. I'm not sure if that person has to be an official manager or not.

If you want to go that route, though, you'll probably have to hurry. Our regional organizational meeting is next week and if we want a team we have to be there. There is one more problem too, they (regional officials) will have to figure out how to divide up the school districts between your team and others.

We don't have a team member that is legion affiliated, as far as I know. The senior legion team is already independent, as the manager belongs to a legion in another town, so I guess that's how they got in.

The latest is that the manager is pretty ticked off at me, and he won't return my phone calls. I did talk to the Legion guy, and he said the manager told him he would have at least 15 kids ready to go come June 1st. Considering our town already has a Babe Ruth team and my team, I don't know where he's going to get these players from. I did find out that he's been making calls to some of my players, trying to pry them away.

We have a team meeting on Saturday where I'll go through everything with everybody. There seems to be a good amount of weekend tournaments within a couple hours drive for us, and if the team is willing to incur more expense than last summer (we charged $200 per player last year), then we should be fine.

The legion official also said that if the manager called him in a month and said he couldn't get a team together, they'd come back to us. So that's in our back pocket as well..

I don't know who you spoke to in the Legion, but you might want to check with the regional manager before you meet with your team. http://www.baseball.legion.org/database/list_chair.php

Also, league fees including insurance are about $1,400 this year.

Last year a couple guys whose kids didn't have any place to play put together a BR 16-18 team. Although they were good enough to make it to the league championship game, they had constant problems fielding 9 players. 3 or 4 of the HSV players played on a Legion team a couple towns over and one kid played on a "showcase" travel team. The BR team got everyone else who wanted to play.

There are basically two classes of travel around here. Some towns put together teams to essentially play each other. Then, a baseball academy about an hour drive away runs some real travel teams. My son (14yo now) played on one of the academy teams. It was expensive and required way too much travel, even to practices, but did provide good training and competition. One of the town teams somehow got into the league my son's team played in and was humiliated in every game they played. I felt sorry for the kids.

So, for our local kids to play at a high level we just about have to get a Legion team. The HS varsity coach decided he wanted to start one and needed someone (can you say gopher) to do the administrative stuff. That's me. But, it's a good experience and I'm going to learn a lot just tagging along with these guys. I've only coached LL before.

Good luck with your team. Sounds like you've put together a great bunch of players and parents.