What would you do?

I have not had this happen to me, but worked on a crew when it happened to a partner. He ejected the pitcher, catcher and skipper.

From this video, that's exactly what should have been done in this case. The hit was obviously intentional. The catcher is beginning his act at the relase of the pitch.

Never of this sort.......I was struck once by a errant pitch out attempt.........the catcher called for a pitch out.........hopped out and the pitcher threw it right down the center of the plate........I took it in the chest protector.......no problems.....

The runner on first was attempting to steal and the catcher attempted to reach back and glove the ball.......so I believed it was unintentional....


This one, however, seems to be blatantly intentional.......

If you read the background stuff, they were bitching about balls and strikes the whole game. The pitcher's brother (SS) was rung up the inning before. I don't think there is any doubt it was intentional. I need to be sure, but if I am, I'm dumping the battery, the HC, and anyone who so much as cracks a smile. I will also seek a lifetime ban on everyone involved, and I think the baseball program should be pulled for a year, at least. I might also seek criminal charges. Other than that, I'm ok with it.

I agree with all....They catcher, pitcher and head coach should have been tossed. Their should be some action against the school and coach. WHAT HAS HAPPENED?

So far all that has happened is that the principal of the high school has talked with the coaches and they are pleading total innocence. The Georgia High school association will get involved at some point. The catcher was a senior and the pitcher a junior so I am not sure what the punishment ( if any ) will be. I have umpired with these kids before, the whole team is not bad but they do have some rotten apples in the basket. The catcher has signed to play college ball. I, like you guys would have run the pither, catcher and head coach.

If I am the college coach, who recruited that catcher, I would rescind the scholarship of that catcher....HE WOULD NOT PLAY FOR ME!

I recall when this manuever was part of the game and accepted---the good home plate umpires will never have this problem

quote:

the good home plate umpires will never have this problem

So were you at this game? Just because a player disagrees with an umpire, it makes the umpire bad?????

bulldog

Where do I say "bad ump""

No I wasnt at the game in question? WHERE YOU?

I made a simple statement reharding what used to be

You inferred the umpire was bad by:

quote:

good home plate umpires will never have this problem

And no, I wasn't there.

quote:

and I think the baseball program should be pulled for a year,

Dash I think this is a little too much because you are now punishing kids who had nothing to do with this action. Punish the ones who did it - catcher, pitcher and probably coach - but don't punish everyone.

This is a travesty, a mockery and ridiculos act and should be punished and punished hard.

I may be wrong but I don't think so about this. I do not think the head coach or his assistants had anything to do with this. The times I have had them the coaches seemed like pretty stand up guys. We have had a discussion or two but nothing out of the way. I truly think this was three players who set this up and the sad part is one will be drafted Thursday probably in the first round.

I am in no way am condoning this and hope they get in trouble. But... I was watching it with my son's teammates, because we played with these guys in Little League. One of them asked the question, "How is this any different than throwing at a batter?"
They began to talk about all the times in their playing careers (they were all juniors and below) that they had known pitchers to throw at batters intentionally. They said that most of them every one knew what was happening.
Should the same penalties be imposed for throwing at a batter as they are at throwing at an ump?
I have to admit that I was outraged when I watched it. But after hearing these guys talk, realized that we, society, baseball community, do not hold pitchers to the same standard when they are throwing at a batter.
I wonder how many of us protect our batters as much as we are demanding protection in this situation. We were talking about how many pitchers will be drafted this weekend that have on multiple occasions hit a batter intentionally for standing too close, hitting a home run, making a jesture, stealing a sign. They were asking what is the big deal about hitting an ump versus a player. They were not justifying this either.
I wonder how many of us get as upset about a player being hit as we do about an ump.
I was at my 15 year old son's game this weekend and an adult and coach said to their pitcher "That batter is too close to your plate, you better back him up." Would you have ejected them on the next inside pitch? Most of us laugh at this but it is the same.
Again, I am not condoning this, these ball players just got me to thinking.

Hitting a batter is a part of the game. By doing something during the game like showing up the pitcher, standing on top of the plate, tagging hard, etc, the batter knows what to expect.

The umpire on the other hand is just doing his job.

The two acts are, IMO, not on the same level.

Be careful. You are saying that it is appropriate to intentionally injure another player and that is okay. This has made me think about this game my family loves. Have we crossed the line? Is this a time for a wakeup call for the baseball community?

Hitting a player and injuring them are not the same thing. You don't hit them in the head. I see guys all the time get plunked with 90+ mph fastballs and all that is left is a bruise.

It is what it is...it is part of the game we all love. Baseball has been like this since the beginning. If you play it the right way, and don't disrespect other players or the game, there aren't many problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Connell:
One of them asked the question, "How is this any different than throwing at a batter?"

Here's how. When the batter sees a pitch coming at his head, he does everything he can to protect himself and/or get out of the way. The umpire must track that pitch all the way to the glove and not budge a fraction of an inch. He is relying on the catcher to catch the ball (and to prevent him from being seriously injured). I hope you can see the difference.

I understand dash, but do you eject every pitcher that throws at a batter, even if he gets out of the way? If not, why should we expect any difference when it happens to us?

Jeff: I have to say you are taking something part of the game like hitting the batter and comparing it to something like having the catcher intentionally move out of the way to allow it to hit an umpire...think about what you are saying.

How about this...I don't like the third base coach, so next time the left fielder and warm up guy are playing catch, the warm up guy intentionally lets the ball go by and hits the coach...it's no part of the game.

If you don't like your kids to get thrown at, teach them the right way to play the game.

I have seen the third base coach thrown at and I don't agree with that either.
The incident this weekend was not my kid batting. The batter has the right to the box without having to fear a kid throwing at him. That is not part of baseball. The pitcher does not have a right to throw at another player.
Throwing at a kid is not the right way to play the game. You must be one of those that teaches this bush league stuff.

Jeff: If a kid is "comfortable" in the batter's box the pitcher is not doing his job. When a kid is comfortable, he is reaching out over the plate and getting to pitches he shouldn't if he wasn't over the plate. If kids aren't all over the plate, they don't get busted in for that reason. It's not bush league. It happens at every level of the game...I have been thrown at and I KNEW it was coming. Did it hurt me? No. I was fine and the game went on. It's a way for players who know how to play the game to self-regulate.

Then don't complain when players self-regulate the same thing with umpires who don't call consistent strike zones or coaches who are smart-alics. If it okay for a player to throw at a player, it must be okay for a player to throw at an umpire or coach.

Understand, I'm not saying it is okay to throw at anyone, You are.
I don't think this is part of baseball. It has become part of baseball because umpires have allowed it. Anytime someone does something to intentionally hurt another, it is wrong. Hurt is not kill, hurt is hurt.

Jeff: I'm sorry but no one who is a "baseball person" would agree that throwing at a player and throwing at somebody not in a game is ANYWHERE near the same league. Any player that is truly a baseball player would not do that or throw at a coach.

I'm sorry if I played and teach the game the right way...I want my players to be hard-nosed, diving everywhere, taking balls of their chest, going 100% all of the time and just in general respecting the game. If you look at the best teams (amateur, college, professional) you will see the "dirtbag" mentality...and IMO, those are the best teams to watch.

If you respect the game and other players there is nothing to worry about.

Got ya! Hit em boys. If they step in your box, hit em. If they hit a home run, hit em. If they get a hit, hit em.
Just don't hit the coaches that are telling them to hit ya.

I bet you have coached some of the tournament teams we have played against. It is people with your mentallity that causes kids to do things like these two did. In fact, you sound a lot like the one kid's dad.

Sorry I'm not afraid to play the game. I would never advocate doing something as stupid as what they did and you are just being plain ignorant. If you don't love the game for what it is, go have your son play a non-contact sport.

It's people like you that teach players the wrong way to play the game; these are the players that are afraid to stick their nose into a hard one hopper and knock it down. Go watch any good college game, professional game, or amateur game and you will find what real baseball is all about.

Jeff:

If I have the same evidence that the pitcher is intentionally throwing at the batter as this video provides regarding the pitcher hitting the umpire, he's gone.

I don't dispute that throwing at batters is "part of the game." But so is ejecting pitchers when it happens.

I think if you reflect a bit, you'll remember that the number of pitchers ejected for throwing at batters in the majors is up significantly over the past three or four years.

There is a lot of tough guy talk from coaches who don't have to stand in and take it. And that's all a lot of it is, talk.

Jimmy: If you think I am just talking I am not...I just got done playing and have been in the middle of it. I practiced what I preach. I have been hit my fair share of times.

I have been in the middle of some East Cobb vs. Midland battles...and those are teams that have a distinct dislike for each other.

quote:

Originally posted by INshocker:
Jimmy: If you think I am just talking I am not...I just got done playing and have been in the middle of it. I practiced what I preach. I have been hit my fair share of times.

I have been in the middle of some East Cobb vs. Midland battles...and those are teams that have a distinct dislike for each other.

Sorry, I did not realize I was talking to a kid. Never mind. I will end this discussion here. I apologize for having this conversation with a kid.

Sorry I am not a kid. I am a former D1 baseball player who is now a coach. My point to him was I did practice what I preach.

Just an update on the Stephens County situation. The GHSA has fined the school a thousand dollars and they are Severe Warning Status. The GHSA is taking no action on the young men themselves. Not sure why the school has to pay for a few young mens actions

The difference between throwing at an official and a player is unmeasurable. No one here is condoning head hunting. If a pitcher is going to hit a batter he will hit him in the hip. There are similar things in other sports such as a hard tackle in s****r. Remember there are penalties for this behavior. No one would consider tackling a ref or throw at an ump. It is so wrong that I can't imagine anyone defending such an actions or trying to equate it to hitting a player.
In the OP nine players in a row struck out. I bet you the coaches were chirping about strikes before this happened. Many times the coach chirps and the players stop swinging at what they need to swing at. Prefering to stand there and look at strikes and then complain. It may be the players were just head cases that think they are smarter than the umpire.

I can't imagine an adult saying it is okay to hit a kid and yet unheard of to hit an adult. AGain, I don't condone either but you guys are condoning kids hitting each other with baseballs. If they were that good to be able to hit them in the hips versus the head they would not need to hit them at all.
I just can't imagine grown adults getting on here and saying it is part of ball for kids to throw at kids, tackle in s****r, and other things.
I think we need to get rid of all of it. It is just unreal that we can't grasp where it is coming from. For one of my sons or their friends to get on this umpire section and hear you guys tell them that it is okay to hit another player, they can't differentiate between okay to hit a player and not okay to hit a coach or umpire. To a kid, retailiation is retaliation. They would tell you that you are getting paid, if you get hit, oh well. You told them it was okay.

quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Connell:
do you eject every pitcher that throws at a batter

If I am sure it's intentional, yes.

Jeff: There are these types of plays in all sports. This is the same with taking a middle infielder out on a double play. Are you saying you don't agree with that either? I was a middle infielder and knew it was going to happen. There is nothing wrong with it.

Think of it more as sending a message rather than retaliation. If you show up a pitcher, you're going to hear about it. If you make a hard tag at first...,etc. Like I said, teach your kid to play the game the right way and there is not a whole lot to worry about.

If a kid really thinks these are the same, you should explain to them why it isn't. Any kid that has been around the game should understand this because it happens ALL the time.

Did you watch the Rays vs. Red Sox game last night? Cocoa Crisp slid late into the bag...the other team's manager told him he would take care of him tomorrow....Crisp knows what he did and knows he is going to get hit...it's all part of the game.

And the pitcher should get ejected. If you slide into second and raise you foot above the knee, you should get ejected.
Again, you are the coach/player/kid that gets kids into situations like this. You sound just like their dad.
I say if we as umpires did what we are suppose to do, this stuff would not happen.
You keep teaching bush league and I will keep avoiding teams like yours that play that junk. You will be the coach at third that gets thrown at. Remember, DUCK!

Actually my teams are some of the most respected...as all the teams I have played on in the past have been. I play and teach the game the right way. You won't want to play my team because we are a bunch of hard-nosed dirtbags who are afraid of nothing...the kind of players that excel at the upper levels. Get a clue! Every one of my players and coaches around me respect me a great deal. Nobody is stupid enough to throw at me because we play baseball where I come from...not the kind of stuff they teach where you are from.

BTW, I have NEVER seen a coach get thrown at! I just brought up that scenario to give you an example of how stupid you sound!

BTW, since I'm sure you don't know what a dirtbag is it is a player that plays hard all the time...didn't want you taking that out of context.

BTW, if you avoid playing teams that play that junk, you should not send your kid to play high level amateur baseball, college or professional baseball. Because it's all "bush league junk" there.

What teams do you or have you played for? I am in the upper level competitive and there aren't any from Indiana. What D1 did you play for?

Jeff:
Last week in our local Pony league a kid took a 78MPH fastball in the jaw, total accident. The kid plays HS with several kids on the other team. The next day the coach asked how the kid was. She went off on him telling him his pitcher hit him intentionally. The other night I had the plate and the same two teams, the same pitcher. He was having trouble with his curve ball. You could tell it was rolling off his fingers. The manager complained he was throwing at his batters. I sent him on his way. I told him if I thought he was throwing at anybody, I would dump him. I don't condone kids throwing at kids but it certainly happens. If I see it I will take care of it. The same in my other sport. Unsportmanslike gets penalized.
I think any of us here would take care of it. That said, hitting an official is way worse. Think of it this way. Fed considers the ballfield an extention of the classroom. If a kid were to hit another kid in class he would get suspended. If he were to hit the teacher he would be suspended a longer time or expelled. The teacher or umpire in this case isn't in a position to defend himself. The umpire has to stay locked and take the hit to be able to call the pitch. A batter may move back or drop to try and avoid. To take a fastball in the face when you expect the catcher to catch it hurts like hell. This why MLB is tracking stats on shots to the head for umpires. We all saw the PU get knocked out cold with a fastball just the other week.