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Say you'd coached your son in travel ball for several years, attending coaching seminars, studying books, attending lots of minor league games, studying best practices, etc.

And tonight you went and picked up your now hs freshman son from JV practice, and saw the JV coach teaching the team the wrong things and basically running a worthless, albeit long, session.

Would you:

A -- call the varsity coach (who recruited your son to come to this school) and politely share your concerns? (Coach does not have a rep for taking feedback well)

B -- try to chat up the JV coach and find out why he's teaching what he's teaching?

C -- ignore it?

Of course this is totally and completely hypothetical. I only coached rec.

LHPMom
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What is the coach teaching that makes it wrong? That is a pretty open ended statement and could take on a variety of meanings.

There could be a wide range of things this guy is teaching that could be "wrong" or they may be different.

Is he teaching left handed kids to throw right handed?

OR

Is he teaching that he wants the barrel of the bat on bunts at a 45 degree angle while you think it should be 35 degree angle?

Before we start saying how wrong this guy is please let us know what you think he is doing wrong so we can make an informed decision.
quote:
Originally posted by LHPMom2012:
One of the examples that was given to me was teaching the run-down wrong.

LHPMom


No offense and this is probably coming off as attacking you but I'm really not but this still isn't enough. What is he teaching the kids to do that makes it wrong?

Plus if this is what was given to you that leads me to think that you haven't seen what he is teaching but going on some other source - probably your son. There could be all kinds of things going on here

- your son is mad at the coach because he got onto him for something
- your son might be telling you one thing and you are hearing something else
- he might actually be teaching the wrong thing

My point is your opening post is critical of a coach by a parent and that can open a can of worms that won't do anybody any good. Some people here are going to jump the "bash the coach" bandwagon but I think there might be a potential great discussion here about different philosophies if the coach knows what he is talking about. Then again he might be completely wrong.

Please just give us more to go on to make an informed opinion.
Right, wrong, personal preference. Makes no difference. The question is whether or not a parent of a player, no matter how informed or experienced, should intervene without being asked to do so. The answer is no. The player must adapt and change to what the coach wants done unless it is physically harmful. There are three ways to run a team. The right way, the wrong way, and the coach's way. Guess which way it is going to be done.
As I stated above, Any Conversations Will Be Counterproducive, Bite your tongue!

I have been there, Coach Loved my oldest Son so I thought everything was great. Middle Son comes along and is never given the chance. They did not like his "Arm Slot". I was the Booster Club President, and I said somthing to the coach.

It was so bad, I resigned and sat on the sidelines as my Son sat the bench.

Fortunately the coach retired after 20 years and we have new coaching. My Son is hitting in the 4 hole batting .435 with doubles and a HR, he is pitching and playing every game as a starter.

My Son was given a loss after pitching 2 innings, leaving the game tied, when we went back on the field at the after the Top of 3 we had the lead, and another pitcher took the mound and imploded.

My Son should not have gotten the loss for a multitude of reasons....Do you think that I am going to say something to the coach about it? Not in this lifetime. My kid is playing and contributing. I will bite my tongue from now on. It was not worth it!
Last edited by floridafan
A beautiful example/illustration of what I've been trying to say about parents and context and evaluating coaches and angry letters to Spring league organizers in SoCal.

We have here an evaluation of 'coaching wrong' with a vague 2nd-hand reference to rundowns. Come on, this is pretty silly isn't it?

I will quote once again a legendary HS coach from our area who retired after last season. Newspaper reporter asked him whether he would be attending that school's games or not. "Yes, I think I will sit in the stands. After all, thats where I understand the best coaches are anyways." Big Grin
Last edited by justbaseball
Teaching a rundown "wrong" is not going to get anyone hurt. He made the JV team. Let it go. encourage your son to open his mind and learn the coach's way. Absolutely no good can come of telling a coach how to coach. And telling the varsity coach that the JV coach does things "wrong" because he does it differently than you did when you coached him... I definitely wouldn't go there.

Agree with floridafan - if coach truly is wrong, then supplement the player's training on weekends, and especially in the off-season. It's always a tough adjustment for 2B to go between travel and HS because the coaches philosophies are different. But a player can take what is valuable and works for him from each coach to improve his game.
[QUOTE]

Would you:

A -- call the varsity coach (who recruited your son to come to this school) and politely share your concerns? (Coach does not have a rep for taking feedback well)

No! Anything you have to say valid or not opens up future unwanted conversations... Your in his world now.

B -- try to chat up the JV coach and find out why he's teaching what he's teaching?

See above.

C -- ignore it?

Yes! At the end of the year if your son had a miserable time, if it's an option, transfer to another school.

Frankly, these are lessons learned 5-6 years ago.
Last edited by dswann
Hey, I know I'm not that smart. I know very little about baseball. It was only a few years ago that I learned about the whole "if the catcher catches a foul tip third strike, the batter's out" deal.

I appreciate the plethora of comments about keeping one's mouth shut, and will advise the angry former travel coach to whom I'm married and whose rant last night after watching son's practice prompted this post.

LHPMom
coaches have different philosophies for a variety of reasons. have your son learn this coaches system so he fits into the coaches plans.

on the summer teams that tour nationally, players are expected to play at a higher level. on a JV high school team some coaches usually have a much more conservative style... the team with less errors is the team that gets the "W".

the next time your hubby goes on a rant, pour him a cocktail, rub his back, and tell him to let it go.
Last edited by Texas Crude
quote:
Originally posted by LHPMom2012:
the angry former travel coach to whom I'm married and whose rant last night after watching son's practice prompted this post.

LHPMom


Well now....this is going to be an interesting season for you...freshmen player...dad former travel coach...hmmm seen this one a few times.

At least your husband will have first hand opportunity to listen to what people have been saying about him in the stands the past few years.

You might want to purchase a real nice chair and prop him up in the outfield somewhere where others won't have to listen to his rants. If not sharpen up your elbows.
quote:
Originally posted by BOF:
quote:
Originally posted by LHPMom2012:
the angry former travel coach to whom I'm married and whose rant last night after watching son's practice prompted this post.

LHPMom


Well now....this is going to be an interesting season for you...freshmen player...dad former travel coach...hmmm seen this one a few times.

At least your husband will have first hand opportunity to listen to what people have been saying about him in the stands the past few years.

You might want to purchase a real nice chair and prop him up in the outfield somewhere where others won't have to listen to his rants. If not sharpen up your elbows.


Great Post!!!
It has been my experience that a former travel coach that has coached his own son is hyper-sensitive at his own child's lack of playing time. They tend to criticize, pick apart, and find fault with anything and everything until their child gets the playing time or the treatment he feels he deserves. It is an unfortunate fact of travel/hs baseball. That being said. HS coaches are largely underpaid and sometimes you get what you pay for. The reality is that playing for your school and representing your school is supposed to be an honor. Travel ball, tournaments, and showcases are where a baseball player is showcased. So, sit back and enjoy the ride and don't poison a young man's experience that is supposed to be so positive. Your time is too short to be angry about it all. It will all be over before you know it. jmo
First bit of advice is to keep it to yourself for the good of your son. Then, if you agree with the advice, make sure your son is also aware that "loose lips sink ships".

During my sons years of baseball I noticed many slight variations of a "rundown". As long as all the players are on the same page and the end result is consistantly getting runners out, whats the problem of trying something a little different. If in the end your assumptions that it is the incorrect way are true, it may be time for the coaches to re-design THEIR wheel, but without your input.

Enjoy the game and your sons involvement, because it ends to soon.
Last edited by rz1
quote:
Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
quote:
the next time your hubby goes on a rant, pour him a cocktail, rub his back, and tell him to let it go.


I've heard Mrs. Texas Crude has a portable bar in the back of her surburban for just this reason. Wink


Portable would imply that it comes out of the Suburban. No. That bad boy is a built-in. The massage table is portable though.
One of the most important things to remember when a situation like this arises is that there is a difference between teaching things "differently" and teaching things "wrong".

A lot of people equate different to wrong. If you don't believe me, then you haven't been paying a lot of attention to these boards.

Often times it's a good thing that something is taught differently. You never know when that lightbulb will go on for the players hearing the same old thing described differently or in a way that works better for them.
LHPMom – I am sure by now you are feeling picked on, including by me. Hang in there!

But now, I wish to offer a little more helpful response.

The feelings your husband has are not unusual. Especially for a parent who feels he understands the game and/or has coached his son and achieved success. In one way or another, most of us have ‘been-there, done-that.Big Grin

These feelings don’t necessarily end in HS JV ball, HS varsity ball or even college ball if your son is lucky enough to get to that level. As a parent, we often question what we see if it doesn’t line up with our evaluation or our own way of doing things.

These are reasons that you’ll read from parents on here, who have been through all of this, things like: ‘relax,’ ‘find a seat down the line,’ ‘let go,’ ‘keep your words to yourself’ and ‘don’t attend practice.’

We know acting a whole lot differently doesn’t bear a whole lot of fruit!

There is not one way to execute a rundown, lay down a bunt, throw a fastball or to hit. There is simply no way to agree with everything you see even in a major league game. True, when it is our sons, we (feel we) have way more at stake and our microscopes get turned up ten notches. But you gotta realize this is how we parents react and realize that in large part you need to get out of the way and let your son grow up without mom or dad holding their hands every step of the way.

Think about it in a manner similar to a math, science or english teacher. For the most part, we parents let those teachers do their thing…totally agree? or disagree?…we let them run their classroom the way they want to run it without near the interjection we (want to) offer in baseball.

Yes, we step in if we see signs of abuse, gross incompetence…or other gigantic red flags. But we don’t observe their classroom usually…we don’t look for debriefs every night and when we disagree with a teaching method, we don't offer near the criticism nor use bad names…and never in front of sons or daughters.

You are entering a time of your son’s life that is critically important to his growth, his ability to fend for himself and to the relationship you and your husband will have with him long term. Ask yourself how you want that to pan out. Do you want to solve problems for him when he gets to college?...when he's 25? What do you want him to remember about HS baseball? That his parents attended his HS games and cheered for him and his teammates like crazy? Or that his parents thought his HS coach was a knucklehead?

I think, even if his coach is in fact a knucklehead, you might want to consider skipping that thought with him (minus a serious knucklehead problem) and focus on his team’s performance, his own performance…how great they did or how your son could do this-or-that to help his team get better. And advising your son about how to be a good cheerleader is a lot more productive for all involved than advising him that his coach is wrong.

Good luck! Have fun and have a great season! Wink
Last edited by justbaseball
quote:
Originally posted by Emanski's Heroes:

....Often times it's a good thing that something is taught differently. You never know when that lightbulb will go on for the players hearing the same old thing described differently or in a way that works better for them.


This is pretty good advice. If a player relies on one coach for instruction his whole "career" he's likely missing out on some good(informative?) instruction. My son has learned all sorts of useful stuff from bad coaches over the last few years.

If the player has an attitude that the coach knows nothing (even if true) the player will learn nothing positive and his time with the coach will be poorly spent.
quote:
Originally posted by justbaseball:
LHPMom – I am sure by now you are feeling picked on, including by me. Hang in there!


I hope you guys are not disillusioned by the responses here. My motto from both the giving and recieving ends on the HSBBW is. "If you post they will come". Many topics can "stir" the emotions and opinions of posters and it looks like you're cookin up a good sized pot. Pull up a chair and enjoy. While it may not be what you ordered, I'm sure you'll be back.



No rundown for you Big Grin
Last edited by rz1
quote:
Originally posted by rz1:
quote:
Originally posted by justbaseball:
LHPMom – I am sure by now you are feeling picked on, including by me. Hang in there!


I hope you guys are not disillusioned by the responses here. My motto from both the giving and recieving ends on the HSBBW is. "If you post they will come" Many topics can "stir" the emotions of posters and it looks like you're cookin up a good sized pot. Pull up a chair and enjoy. While it may not be what you ordered, I'm sure you'll be back.

You have become quite the philosopher these days

Seriously, I thought LHP2012mom took a beating in this thread when I think all she did was ask an innocent question. Her husband is the one who should have taken the beating imho Big Grin

Seriously again, I thought justbb's last response above was very nice, thoughtful, and generous to explain things Smile
Last edited by ClevelandDad
quote:
I appreciate the plethora of comments about keeping one's mouth shut, and will advise the angry former travel coach to whom I'm married and whose rant last night after watching son's practice prompted this post.
If he doesn't like what he sees, advise him to stay away from practice. Your son might even like him staying away from practice. Advise your husband not to be an arm chair coach in the stands during games. It will get back to the coach.

Also tell your husband just because he's a travel coach doesn't mean he knows more than the high school coach. I'm a travel coach. I played at a higher level of college ball than my son's high school coach. I would NEVER consider second guessing him and complaining. Besides, I think he's a great coach. There are dad/coaches who do second guess him the entire game in their little circle. I call them The Jury. I stay clear of them. To quote Jim Mora (regarding The Jury) "I know they don't know what they think they know that they think the coach doesn't know."
Last edited by RJM
Thanks again for your responses. No, I don't feel picked on... but FWIW, my husband would never solicit advice on a message board about anything. Because he's not only right about baseball, he's right about everything. Wink

Since I get all my baseball knowledge from him, I didn't realize there was more than one "right" way to execute a run-down, lay down a bunt, etc. (I've attended enough hitting and pitching lessons to realize there's more than one right way to swing a bat or throw a ball, though.)

FWIW, he was a good travel coach; the other kids and parents loved him. At least that's what they told me... and it's not a playing time issue. School had a fall ball team -- no practices, just Sunday doubleheaders -- and son played an appropriate amount, did well, etc. And yes, hubby was pacing around the outfield, muttering to himself, while I was hanging out with the other parents near first base.

Bottom line appears to be: don't ever talk to coach. Not worth it.

And I really do appreciate all the commments. This is such a fun group!

LHPMom
quote:
Well now....this is going to be an interesting season for you...freshmen player...dad former travel coach...hmmm seen this one a few times.

At least your husband will have first hand opportunity to listen to what people have been saying about him in the stands the past few years.
It's been determined through scientific research from know it all parents, a person loses 20 points in IQ when he assumes control of a sports team. He his IQ rises 40 points when he leaves the dugout/bench for the stands.

When I stopped coaching my daughter's travel softball team, I would get the "What would you have done in that situation?" All the time. I had a canned response. "There's more than one way to handle a situation. Any disagreement would only be based on coaching philosophy." Then I shut up. The other parents eventually stopped asking.

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