What's a Parent to Do?

It may become very obvious to you both after the visits which is the better fit. Just ask him to keep an open mind until he has seen both schools and met with each coaching staff, players, and academic advisor. Does he have offers already from both schools? This may come into play as well. Going on a visit doesn't guarantee an offer (or the one you want anyway). As long as he is able to make an informed decision, he should ultimately be the one to make it. Just my two cents.

Tough situation we are going through same situation with a couple schools with our son and have taken a couple un-official visits on our own to help set some standards. It seems alot of kids today are name brand motivated with alot of their decisions verse what the best long term Fit- academically, athletically, and socially would be. I still feel strongly that as a parent and financial supporter that we have a say in the final decision BUT it is a very delicate situation and you don't want them to resent your advice SO perhaps you can as we will attempt to lead him without him realizing the steering is going on. In the end Pros and Cons should be the deciding factor especially when odds are that most will never go on to major league ball and it will be the education and experience that matters in the end. Very important topic

Thanks for the input. RYNO, you are right -- it IS a very delicate situation. Unfortunately, now that he has seen our pros and cons list, he pretty much knows where we stand. It will be difficult at this point to "lead him without him realizing the steering is going on."

iheartbb, I agree with your statement: "As long as he is able to make an informed decision, he should ultimately be the one to make it." However, what if he's not making an "informed" decision? What if he's making a decision based on emotion? This is where it gets sticky.

I sure hope the visits provide some clarity. One is an official one, at which we expect an offer, and the other is an unofficial visit, but based on feedback we've gotten so far from the coach, an offer most likely is forthcoming.

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I sure hope the visits provide some clarity. One is an official one, at which we expect an offer, and the other is an unofficial visit, but based on feedback we've gotten so far from the coach, an offer most likely is forthcoming.

If and when the offers come.
Its your son who will be making the commitment.
Let him know now that whatever he decides is fine with you.
It's his decision.
Let the visit's happen.
alot could change in 2weeks.
EH

The basis of the sanctions would seem important to me as a parent. Reputation(I am assuming it is poor) of the coaches relates to what? Stockpilers;poor instructors. Hard to make a suggestion with vagueness.

What is a "casual environment" ?

Most universities are very diverse simply because of the curriculum they offer and the large base of students.

ihbb said it right, that is, go on the visits to both to get a feel.

From experience, my son went on several visits, some official and some unofficial. Some of them resulted in "like the campus and not crazy about the baseball program/coach" and "like the baseball part but not the feel of the campus"

When both are liked, then the financial fit comes into play. When my son made his decision, he chose one of the lesser offers in exchange for the college and baseball overall fit.

We had one basic premise---"Son, find the place you want to be and we will make the finances work"

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Originally posted by TRhit:
We had one basic premise---"Son, find the place you want to be and we will make the finances work"

Not everyone has that luxury.

quote:

Originally posted by parent:

We don't want to force him to attend the "superior" school; however, we don't like the idea of him making a mistake that could come back to bite him in the future. He will be visiting both schools in the next 2 weeks and will need to make a decision soon thereafter. Any and all advice appreciated.

How do you know that he would make a mistake choosing the inferior school?
What were the sanctions for, APR?

You need to go on the visits with son and let him make his own decision after that. He is the one who will attend, not you. Your son should be making his own pro/con list, with your guidance, I don't blame him for being upset.

A big part of this process is based on emotions, I know in our case the pros (geography, more scholarship $$, in state, great school, good baseball program) for one school made much more sense than the other, but son's "gut" instinct (not ours) helped make the final decision to the school that had more cons.

I think this is an interesting question.

Emotions may be more important than logic in some cases however. You know the old saying, "If your heart's not into it you cannot perform to your best ability" I believe the only way you can get him to choose one school over the other is to make him think it is his decision. That also must agree with what his heart tells him and you may not be able to overcome that.

I am not as concerned as much with one school being academically superior. If the young man goes somewhere where his heart is not into it, he might not get the best grades possible. Also, I think academics is something that can be corrected somewhat in the future. If he goes to the lesser school and does well, he can get into a name school for a post-graduate degree for example. Chances are, good grades at the lesser school will be more than adequate to land a good job. Also, hard work will always win out over pedigree in the long run.

The decision that cannot be corrected in the future is the baseball decision and that one would concern me the most. Baseball at the college level is basically a one time shot. Sometimes transfers can be used but the athlete often pays dearly for a poor decision - athletically and/or academically. He'll have four and perhaps five precious years left of baseball, he'll want to make sure that opportunity is maximized if possible. I think winning is important. It may seem cool at first if a kid got to play right away but I believe losing grows old over time. It is fun to win and it is a bigger challenge for the athlete to make and contribute to a winning team.

Still yet another option here is to find another school suitable for both parents and student. It is only October 1st. I don't see why any decisions have to be made right now.

On the other hand, CD, baseball might only be for another year (injury, doesn't make the cut, changing priorities, etc.). Probably four more years at the very most.

The academic side will have a much longer effect.

An alma mater with a great reputation in the boy's chosen career field could open doors that would not otherwise be available.

Great grades will not make up for coming out of a school with a poor academic reputation.

Depends upon how much difference really exists between the academic reputations of the two schools. Moderate difference? Probably not such a big deal. Significant difference? Could have some longer term effects.

As CD stated, the decisions doesn't have to be made today.

I am glad this topic has been raised. It seems that many posters here have a much easier give and take with their senior student/athletes. My relationship with my son has been great and he has positioned himself well by performing well on the field and getting great grades. Now, however, it seems that I am the one creating the pros and cons list and he is much more interested in what 17 yo's are interested in. It can be nerve wracking to see him approach what appears to me to be, until now, the most important decision in his life, in this way. I will gladly read on.

Great topic. With all due respect, I would remind folks that now days a bachelors degree does not carry so much weight anymore, no matter where it's earned. Graduate degrees are another story. Now that doesn't mean undergrad doesn't count at all; grades do count.

Certain sacrifices happen to accommodate student athletes. Doesn't mean they can't go back or continue on with an advanced degree when they're done. If the kid wants to play baseball in college, then look for a good baseball fit. Keep the other stuff in perspective. JMHO.

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Originally posted by Double Eagle:
Now, however, it seems that I am the one creating the pros and cons list and he is much more interested in what 17 yo's are interested in. It can be nerve wracking to see him approach what appears to me to be, until now, the most important decision in his life, in this way. I will gladly read on.

If you speak to most parents who have gone through the process, they will tell you this is not unusual.

We are busy trying to help them make the decision but they seem to have other concerns. Your role should be to leave communication open for opinions when he wants to communicate about it. I think we as parents seem to make it more complicated than it really is. I feel as parents we do have a right to express our opinions, especially when we are paying for the bill, and financial considerations should be respected. I know when we were going through the process, we didn't care how great we thought the program was, an 80-100K college debt was not what we had in mind, especially when he earned lots of free money for in state tuition, with or without baseball.

When the time comes to make the final decision, you would be surprised how much they know what they want and 9 times out of 10 the decision turns out a lot better than we would have chosen.

IMHO, parents should not abdicate their responsibilities to a 17YO. The intent and goal should be to help guide a 17YO down a good decision path.

But this parent, for one, retains veto authority should that decision turn out to be obviously flawed. Even the most mature 17YO can't see very far down the road. That is why the Good Lord gave kids parents.

My nephew received a very nice Track scholarship to a premire school in the Northeast. His parents pretty much told him he had to go (because of the $$). He was hesitant to go but went because he knew it would save his parents so much money he went anyway. Being a California boy it was not long before he was miserable, by winter break he was home. It would have been nice if his parents had listened a little bit more to how the kid was reacting to the situation. Live and learn.

It sure feels comfy knowing after all this reading that my wife and I aren't the only ones who have a 17yr old with the "attitude" about all this.

There are many times I have banged my head on the desk at work.

However, after sitting down and talking to him several times about how his decision does in fact affect his parents, he does listen. After reading HSBBW and reading here the message boards for so long, it has helped me help him put things in perspective, i.e. locale to home, how important is playing time, finances, academics, etc.

Good luck to all you parent who are in the same boat as me rowing your hearts out!

We go on our first "official" visit this weekend! Seems like when I was 12yrs old again and Christmas is tomorrow a.m.!

quote:

I sure hope the visits provide some clarity. One is an official one, at which we expect an offer, and the other is an unofficial visit, but based on feedback we've gotten so far from the coach, an offer most likely is forthcoming.

Are we talking local JUCO v. an Ivy, or some difference less stark? Regardless, the student is the one working on the field and in the classroom> It sounds like you understand while his first choice might your second, forcing a round peg in a square hole rarely fits smoothly.

Every visit we took I got "Well, I could go here!" Visit your #1 choice second. Usually, the last place seen gets top choice. Good luck.

As a junior my son made an announcement he was going to go where he got the most money.

We kept our thoughts to ourselves until senior summer when the invites to visits began.

I gave a list of things to consider when choosing a school and he began to seriously look at websites and rosters, COA and debt after college, ncaa appearances, degrees offered, CWS appearances, draft, school life, etc. It really didn't mean a whole heck of a lot until that time when he knew a decision had to be made end of summer. Well, that eliminated most of his choices, leaving only two visits. After both visits and offers were in, we sat down and made him make the pro/con list. We didn't do it he did and then he asked us to HELP add anything he may have missed and it was discussed. He had two great choices, we let him go with his gut feeling because he was going to be there, not us, he had to go to class, not us, he had to work with the pitching coach every day, not us, he would be farther from home (his biggest concern), not us, etc.
Turned out HE made the right choice.

Parents, you are not alone!!!!!

a few thoughts ..

kudos, many guys/parents would love to have several choices

agree, that parents should have some input, but YOU have some EMOTION showing too ...
I googled "inferior colleges", "inferior college baseball programs" and got -0- results, on each

so other than some vague references ya made trying to sway the opinion of websters, I have no way of determining who has the "CLEAR PICTURE" - Son or Parent

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TG Posted: "I don't want to freeze my (behind) off living and playing there." That I could relate to. I made the same decision many years ago. Maybe visiting Massachusetts and Florida in February influenced the decision.

Amen. Go Hatters (or insert other warm weather school here)!! Good post TG.

Bee>,
Sometimes I like your style.

Sometimes, for our players, the "inferior" school may be a better fit than the "superior" school. Some of the things you mention "on paper" don't make it the better fit for every player.

You can't alway judge a book by it's cover.

TPM hit on the key...it is all about FIT.

Thanks to all for your responses. The waters are still pretty muddy, but you've given me some good stuff to think about.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
I googled "inferior colleges", "inferior college baseball programs" and got -0- results, on each

I can give you a few names if you really want. Google ain't perfect...

I'm still in the middle of this too, but I will say my son has completely flip-flopped his opinions on several schools after actually visiting them. Probably the best "baseball" school (DI, top 25) he visited was the one where we left and he said "I do NOT want to go to school there." Then we visited a DIII that he loved. So, your son may feel totally different after he visits.

Double Eagle: I totally relate to you. My son is dragging his feet on getting the applications filled out and the essays written. He qualifies for academic money - which will help him with baseball, but the apps have to be in December 1. It amazes me that he has worked his tail off for 13 years on the bb field so that he can play college ball, and now he's going to blow it b/c he won't write a 500 word essay .

I did something with my daughter when being recruited and would recommend it to any parent regardless if they are an athlete or not. I got the idea somewhere (here??) but I had her do an excercise to define her ideal school based on a number of parameters such as (jogging my memory here):

Do you want to go to school in an Urban or a rural setting.

Do you want to go to a big school or a small school?

Do you want to go to school close to home or far away?

Do you want to go to school where several friends will be attending or do you mind going out on your own?

There were several other qualifying questions. For baseball you can include several other qualifiers such as quality of program, ability to play right away, level of competition, type of league, type of coach, etc. Then, once she put into her words what her ideal "FIT" was, she could rate each school following a visit and give it a score. Give each item a value of 1-5 or 1-10 based on how the school you just visited compared to his ideal school. That helps take some of the emotion out of it.

Regarding parental input, I think we still have a right to give input as long as we're bearing some of the cost. If they're getting a full ride, and feel good after visiting, it's hard to argue. But if we're helping pay the bills, I'd like to have a say in it. Yes, it's their life and I'd like them to ultimately decide because they need to be happy with the choice, but it might be MY money going down the tube if it doesn't work out for some reason.

Parent, there is no absolute answer to be found here as you can see. There are too many different variables within each family making this kind of decision. Take what you can from the conversation, you have a lot of info and opinions to consider.
Hopefully the light bulb will come on over the next couple of weeks, and your answer will be clear for you and your son.

My son "just knew" when he found what he was looking for - the right combination of things that have been talked about here in this forum. He went on all 5 visits. He was beeming after his second one and has never waivered from his decision. The school he chose was not the biggest and the best of the group, but it was the one that offered a great education while also allowing him a very good chance at pursuing his chosen profession - MLB. If and when that door closes he is ready to persue his degree and post gradute school with the same intensity he has shown so far to reach his goal of playing D-1 college baseball and beyond. So far he has shown he has a plan and I have no reason to doubt him. I trust him to make informed decisions. I have to, it is his life. I know at 18, I had a plan, it was not my parents plan, I had my own plan, I wanted my own plan, I needed my own plan. I followed my plan, I am glad I did.
He is really very happy and growing in a lot of ways because (I think) he has taken charge of his life and his choices and he is maturing into a really good man. (They do listen through those "terrible teens" years if you are talking)
They just put it on the back burner until they need it. Good luck.

Many good suggestions and points made here.

I recommend to take some time after your visits to both schools. Do not get in a hurry to pick one. My son made his choice in the car on the way home from the school and wanted to call the coach RIGHT THEN! This decision was based on emotions because it was the school he had always thought he wanted but we talked him into letting it go for a while, sit on it, think about it. He changed his mind and decided on another school. It happened to be the one I wanted for him, but he made the decision on his own.

One thing I have learned, never choose a school based on going to play pro ball as a priority on your list. Too many things can happen in that time. A consideration can be their history of getting players drafted, but that is a dangerous assumption that it will happen. that should be an afterthought. JMO.

I have written before on this, the lure of the big D1 with a top 25-30 program is very appealing. Great baseball programs, but big business as well. Many times, really good players find themselves sitting more than playing. The reason being, 34 other players are just as, if not better than you. It's a harsh reality, but one that should be considered. It is not for everybody. Often times, players are more successful at those "inferior" (whatever that is) schools.

For pitchers, check stats for every school, see how they manage their pitching staff. One example I am thinking of, over used one successful pitcher (yes they had an abundance but remember it's a business) for two years, now a top prospect in his draft year, he is having TJS. Pitchers should consider programs where they will gradually ease into the rotation,not 100 innings+ in their first season. JMO.

TPM...that's a great point about pitchers. Is this a question you can ask the coach? How would you go about asking a coach how they plan to develop your son?

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Originally posted by PFBB:
TPM...that's a great point about pitchers. Is this a question you can ask the coach? How would you go about asking a coach how they plan to develop your son?

Flat out ask. We asked a coach why he relied on ONE pitcher so much, interesting answer. He is no longer a coach.

Another question, if you want, ask what they like about your pitcher, if the only answer is they like how he competes, chances are he has no clue how many pitches he might even have in his arsenal.

Remember that visit, unofficial or official should be your and son's fact finding mission as well.

agree with TPM's points but even the best thought out questions will not ensure a good fit at a school. The coaches will change their approach as the season develops. He will adjust according to what he sees from his players. All statements and promises are out the window. If they are winning you will see less changes than if they are losing. Losing can create opportunities for some and lost oportunities for others.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:

quote:

Originally posted by PFBB:
TPM...that's a great point about pitchers. Is this a question you can ask the coach? How would you go about asking a coach how they plan to develop your son?

Another question, if you want, ask what they like about your pitcher, if the only answer is they like how he competes, chances are he has no clue how many pitches he might even have in his arsenal.

That answer may not be all that bad. Vague as it is, it is probably based on the fact the pitching coach saw the player several times and liked his makeup. Maybe the kid was in a jam and fought his way out of it? When the kid was dominating, he liked how he carried himself?

Knowing a few excellent college pitching coaches, they seem less concerned with the arsenal of pitches in high school.

Take the flamethrower with a straight fastball that gets rocked at times. He has the velocity, the coach should provide some movement to it during development.

You will probably see less room for development at D1 with the new rules.
If you look at fresman rosters for a school 2-3 years before you will see a high percentage are no longer at teh school.
If the coach is recruiting you he obviously likes you. Hopefully he will still like you at the end of 1st,2nd and 3rd year. That assumes the coach is still there.
We didn't ask any BB questions until after year 1 and that was do you see me in your future plans ? We were more interested in academic questions. BB questions and the answers change with the wind.

Oldslugger8,

I understand that should be a given, but when we asked this coach he never mentioned anything about his pitching.
In college, it's very hard to take a just a flamethrower and turn him into a pitcher, it takes too long.

Another pitching coach knew all of his pitches and what adjustments he should make, a year before he came to work with him.

Barring pro/con lists for all schools were equal, which coach would you want your son to work with? I know that's taking a big cahnce, coach might not have been there, but we were more turned off by what one coach didn't know by being turned on about what one coach did.

Another thing that worked for us is a school half the way across the country from us was recruiting our son when he was a junior so we arranged for him to go to a camp by himself. Before going, he thought the distance would be no problem. When he got home his whole outlook had changed. The coaches were so so, because of having to commute by airline, it took a complete day to get there and another back. When actually making the trip, the reality sunk in about the distance. Probably the best money we ever spent. He chose a school where the fit was perfect and a comfortable distance from home. His team also won the College World Series. What a bonus.

LHPitcher,
Strange how things work huh?

He saved you money and got a ring!

Did he mind the flight to DC?

He was flying high. Said it was unbelievable. I think sometimes you need to let the kids make those recruiting trips on their own. If we are there it just isn't the same.

I have to agree with LHPitcher. It's best to let the boy go alone, ask his own questions, and get a real feel for the place. It's too easy to shade the first real college experience with parental oversight. Also a good time for parents to start preparing for the inevitable.

Mine took his aloha trip solo, and it's a long, long way from home. In his case it was worth the trip, and he doesn't mind making it again and again. No ring yet, but he did get leid.