Situation: 1 out, runners on 2nd and 3rd.
Batter flies out to center field, both runners tag up and reach safely. Team appeals and runner on 2nd is called out for leaving early, 3 out.
Question: Does the run score?
CF Dad
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Let's see what I've learned from these forums-
I believe this is a time play for the appeal at second base. The run does count assuming he touches home prior to the defense tagging second base. In these situations I believe the run counts unless the out is a force.
I believe this is a time play for the appeal at second base. The run does count assuming he touches home prior to the defense tagging second base. In these situations I believe the run counts unless the out is a force.
Good job EH.
I hope your umps called it correctly. I know ours didn't.
Well, they debated it for nearly 30 min, going back and forth between the run scoring and the run not scoring. Ultimately, they ruled that the run scored.
I didn't know the rule, however, I thought the run should not have counted because in the sequence of events, the runner leaving early happened before the run scored, therefore since the 3rd out occurred prior to the run scoring, the run does not count. That was my line of thinking.
But what EH explains makes more sense. The 3rd out doesn't occur until the defense appeals and steps on 2nd, therefore the run counts because it scored prior to the 3rd out being recorded......correct?
I didn't know the rule, however, I thought the run should not have counted because in the sequence of events, the runner leaving early happened before the run scored, therefore since the 3rd out occurred prior to the run scoring, the run does not count. That was my line of thinking.
But what EH explains makes more sense. The 3rd out doesn't occur until the defense appeals and steps on 2nd, therefore the run counts because it scored prior to the 3rd out being recorded......correct?
30 min to make the call, right or wrong? Hard to believe...
quote:Originally posted by CF Dad:
But what EH explains makes more sense. The 3rd out doesn't occur until the defense appeals and steps on 2nd, therefore the run counts because it scored prior to the 3rd out being recorded......correct?
Correct. There are two exceptions: (1) The appealed out was a force play, and (2) The appealed out was the batter missing 1B.
In addition, any runs that scored by following the appealed player will not count. For example, R2/R3 with 2 outs. Double scores both runners, but (a) R3 missed the plate, or (b) R2 missed the plate. How many runs score?
In (a), no runs score. In (b) one run scores.
How about this one: 1 out runners on first and third. Sac fly to deep center. runner on 3rd tags and scores. runner on first thinks the ball was dropped and rounds 2nd. he then turns around to go back. the ball beats him back to first but AFTER the runner had scored.
Does the run count? This happened to us and they didn't count it. We lost the game 2-1.
Does the run count? This happened to us and they didn't count it. We lost the game 2-1.
quote:Originally posted by northwest:
How about this one: 1 out runners on first and third. Sac fly to deep center. runner on 3rd tags and scores. runner on first thinks the ball was dropped and rounds 2nd. he then turns around to go back. the ball beats him back to first but AFTER the runner had scored.
Does the run count? This happened to us and they didn't count it. We lost the game 2-1.
Yep, run counts.
northwest,
If you want to try to educate the umpire (it too late to protest now...), he or his assignor probably won't accept an internet ruling.
But you could refer him to NFHS Caseplay 8.2.2 Situation B.
With the bases loaded and one out, a fly ball is hit to deep center field and caught. The runner on third legally tags and advances to home plate. The runner on second leaves before the ball is touched by the center fielder. With runners now standing on third and second base, and before a pitch, the defense is granted time and verbally appeals that the runner on second left the base too early. RULING: This is a valid appeal and the runner is declared out. The run scoring on the proper tag-up from third base will count.
For OBR the last Approved Ruling at the end of Rule 4.09 applies.
APPROVED RULING: One out, Jones on third, Smith on first, and Brown flies out to right field. Two outs. Jones tags up and scores after the catch. Smith attempted to return to first but the right fielder’s throw beat him to the base. Three outs. But Jones scored before the throw to catch Smith reached first base, hence Jones’runcounts. It was not a force play.
If you want to try to educate the umpire (it too late to protest now...), he or his assignor probably won't accept an internet ruling.
But you could refer him to NFHS Caseplay 8.2.2 Situation B.
With the bases loaded and one out, a fly ball is hit to deep center field and caught. The runner on third legally tags and advances to home plate. The runner on second leaves before the ball is touched by the center fielder. With runners now standing on third and second base, and before a pitch, the defense is granted time and verbally appeals that the runner on second left the base too early. RULING: This is a valid appeal and the runner is declared out. The run scoring on the proper tag-up from third base will count.
For OBR the last Approved Ruling at the end of Rule 4.09 applies.
APPROVED RULING: One out, Jones on third, Smith on first, and Brown flies out to right field. Two outs. Jones tags up and scores after the catch. Smith attempted to return to first but the right fielder’s throw beat him to the base. Three outs. But Jones scored before the throw to catch Smith reached first base, hence Jones’runcounts. It was not a force play.
Run scores. appeals are part of the time play process. since the runners were not forced and the run scored before the appeal the run scores.