Whats with Ozzie Guiilen?

Typical Ozzie

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I think he ordered sushi once...without having an interpreter. I'm guessing it wasn't a good experience for Oz.




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My first thought was, okay, Ozzie is going on one of his tangents as he does several times a year. But the more I thought about it, he has a point. How he communicates that point is another matter. Then I read John Kruk's article about the subject, and I definetly think Ozzie has a point. You be the judge.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/...ll-tonight-clubhouse

Sometimes, with Ozzie and others, the message gets lost with the messenger.
If your son has been around Milb, with Asian and Latin players, one could see there is some validity in some of the points being made.
One point Ozzie made that is not being highlighted in the message is that American and Asian players are being drafted or signed when they are 21-23 years old.
That is rare for a Latin player.
Don't agree with everything Ozzie says and have some doubts about the "why." But his views and thoughts have some merit in terms of the way things have evolved in Milb.
For anyone who has not seen it, before you condemn Ozzie, see the movie "Sugar." Pretty well done movie on Milb, presented from the perspective of a Latin.

My problem with Ozzie's rant is that it was not accurate, at least not in full.

In the AZL every team had not only interpreters but also educators for the Latino players. The players had not only English lessons but also lessons on "social skills" and financial matters. Additionally, most, if not all, the teams had coaching staff who spoke Spanish.

What the White Sox does at the Major level, I can't speak to; but MLB does work with the kids in the minors.

quote:

What the White Sox does at the Major level, I can't speak to; but MLB does work with the kids in the minors.

Jimmy, that is variable depending on the level of Milb, the club, and probably the number of Latin players.

We watched 8 rookie league games while at BCS a few weeks ago. Every team had a spanish speaking coach. Almost all of them was the coach that talked to the pitchers. I'm not sure all were the pitching coach but they were the one that went to the mound if it was a latin player.

Yea in my opinion I feel he is overreacting. I think at the end of the day, there are plenty of resources for latin players to understand what needs to be understood.

Also Asian players are much older when they get introduced into the league, they are expected to produce right away. I feel it's nessasary for them to have translators rather then young latin players coming up through the system

By the way infielddad, your signature quote is fantastic. It literally gave me goosbumps

artofbaseball.net

This may sound bitter but if these Latin players are trying to learn English with the same "enthusiasm" many of newer "citizens" in South Texas then it's a wasted effort. That's why every phone message, pulse machine, etc. here has to be in Spanish and English or so many jobs require Bilingual skills. I'm not a racist as I have many Hispanic friends and even relatives through marriage but I still feel English is the national language of the US and the last time I looked that included Texas. That's why I feel Ozzie's rant is as usual from him, a lot of hot air. Japanese is a language for removed from mainstream English and there are far less people who speak it than there are Spanish speakers. And as other posters stated, the investment and entry level is much higher at least for the Japanese stars who had to go through the posting process which requires, I believe, nine years in the Japanese Leagues. Remember, in Org.Baseball, the bigger the investment in a player, the more privileges, chances and help he gets and thats just the way it is.

There are players 18-20 years old coming from Asia and playing in the lowest levels of Milb, with tutors.
Let's all be speaking about the same information and perspective when it comes to the players. While there are more Latins for sure, there isn't much difference in the experience levels in Milb from Asian players.

I'm confused infield dad. Would you mind explaining that agin?sorry


Artofbaseball.net

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:

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What the White Sox does at the Major level, I can't speak to; but MLB does work with the kids in the minors.

Jimmy, that is variable depending on the level of Milb, the club, and probably the number of Latin players.

My point is Ozzie made a "universal" accusation that is not universal. I have seen spoken with tutors working wtih Latino players in the minors. I have seen translaters and Latino coaches working with Latinos in the minors.

Ozzie needs to direct his complaints appropriately, not at baseball as a whole.

You are exactly right Jimmy03. Too bad Ozzie didn't feel the same way about being privileged when it came to his wanting his son drafted in a high spot he totally didn't deserve.

Jimmy,
as I said in my first post, the message and the messenger often are difficult when Ozzie is involved.
I did not read Ozzie to be providing a universal indictment of MLB. Maybe that is what he intended but I didn't view his comments that way.
Perhaps that is because I tend not to always view things in the newspaper/ESPN/SI.com as black/white but try to appreciate there can be shades of gray.
Also, through history, I was aware of the efforts of Ewing Kaufman back in the 80's and how much different he was in scouting and assimilating Latin players even then.
Our son played Milb with Latin players who struggled mightily with English and who would have English taught to them by a volunteer in one of the Cities where they were playing.
He also played with very young Asian players who received very large bonuses, and who had a translator at all times.
To an extent we talked about the the difference in the way the players would try or did assimilate, especially from a language perspective. He commented on the fact it was difficult for the players, he always found all of them, whether Asian or Latin, to make every effort to assimilate/communicate in English, to the extent they could. He readily recognized the game was more complicated for them. He commented that personal/interpersonal relationships were harder too.
To the extent the game requires verbal communication, it is done in English. Having a translator with you at all times as contrasted with learning English when time permits during the season from a wonderful community volunteer is a distinct difference that I personally observed, and not too long ago.
Easy for us, I would propose, to view the issue from our background. It is harder for us to view it from the perspective of a Latin or Asian player.
Personally, I think there can be some accuracy in the comments Ozzie made.
I don't however, think that MLB or any team consciously made the decision to treat anyone differently.