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14 replies

when do you say something

L liner100+ posts
Looking for a bit input from some of the members of the coaching fraternity - and anyone with 2 cents.

We see many posts about coaches and unhappy parents; in most cases conventional thought is let the guy do his job, there's plenty of other opportunity, and it's a life buliding skill, no argument here.

But there are areas that it leads to harm besides hurt feelings, and where do you initiate contact or become proactive. This might be a rare circumstance, but if the parent were more proactive it might have been prevented.

My sons team has a capable player (Jr), plays OF/Inf and pitches a bit, not too much as there are kids paying good $ just to pitch. He was off for 6 weeks with an injury, and due to sore arms in the staff he was used to start the semi's of a tournament a couple weeks after returning (only pitched a few innings 10 weeks ago). Did a good job, going 7 innings, holding to 1 run. Threw over 100 pitches, and played the next day in OF - really strained his arm in the finals on a throw to the plate. Took off the week, did some rehab and returned for the next tourney playing infield, without any issues. Following weekend he was called on to start the first game of the tourney out of the blue, felt okay and went 4 innings. Same issue the next day. He has to bow out of a few upcoming showcases as a result.

Is this just one of those things, or should the parent have been more proactive - talked to the coach during the 1st game (risk being labelled a whiner or over brearing). The kid obviously has some responsibility (playing the next day with a stiff arm), but the pressure to win is enormous, and where you draw the lines becomes clouded.
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MTHMTH10,000+ posts
I guess you could assess "blame" all the way around. But the big problem I see here is the parents. They should have the kid properly evaluated by an orthopedic, get his recommendations, pass them along to the coach, and see what happens. There may or may not be a problem with the coach.

As you point out, the kid must accept responsibility as well, especially if he is a serious college prospect.
J HJ H5,000+ posts
This is a situation that many come across and a tough situation to overcome. I have a lot of respect for players who care about their team's well being. However, one way to look at it is this: would it hurt the team more to not have you in the outfield or on the mound for the one game you are playing? Or would it hurt the team more to have you hurt your arm because you have done too much during a short period of time and now must miss games because of injury?

There are pros and cons to every situation in life. For a team-oriented player, the opportunity cost of an arm injury could prove to be much greater than the alternative.
TRhitTRhit10,000+ posts
Number one as a coach I would be nursing the kids arm since he was out for a good period of time

I also think the player has to speak up

One last thing to the poster---it is not your concern--it sort of gets tiring to see parents of "so-called others kids on their team" bitching

Do you know the total story?


What age group is this?

Lots of things to explain here
Last edited by TRhit
L liner100+ posts
No intention to stir up a ***** session, just an attempt to see what might be an appropriate path. Sharing an experience, not complaining about anything in particular. If we don't share experiences, I'm curious how we can figure out the best alternatives. I try to MMOB, and do a pretty good job of the collective complaining often heard. 17/18's primarilly.

one of the issues as a parent is when to approach the coach...if it's in a game - that's probably out of bounds; but the damage can be done at a certain point, so as a parent, what's appropriate. My gut instinct was that 100 pitches was too many for him. Many major league teams will limit young starters to 110 or so, and these guys are pros with a strict throwing regiment.
Last edited by liner
2Bmom2Bmom1,000+ posts
quote:
But the big problem I see here is the parents. They should have the kid properly evaluated by an orthopedic, get his recommendations, pass them along to the coach, and see what happens.


I agree with this approach. I know of a couple of situations where if parents had just taken their son to the doc, it would be completely different. One parent relied on a trainer (a high school student!) who said the injury was just a strain and take a few days off and the player would be fine. He was in and out of the lineup for 3 months before taking him to the doc. He needed surgery. Another player, a catcher had a rotator cuff problem and couldn't throw at all. His mom didn't want to take him to the doc because (get this) "If a college coach asks him if he's ever been seen for a shoulder problem, he'll have to say yes." True story. He also needed surgery and missed his senior year.

Get to the doc, get a diagnosis and treatment plan, tell the coach.
igballigball500+ posts
When it comes to the health and well being of your children you have to say something if you know there's a health problem or potential problem.

FWIW, I had a somewhat similar situation with my son's high school coach a couple of years ago. Son plays ss and pitches. After pitching a game, the next game he's at ss and I could tell his arm bothered him. So I simply emailed the coach after the game and said that I could use his help teaching my son to speak up and let him know when his arm is bothering him because he cares about the team so much that he will not mention it on his own. Coach got the message and after pitching he either DH'd, played 1B or 2B the rest of his career.
L liner100+ posts
...other (and initial injury) wasn't arm related. In this instance the parents didn't want to be too over protective or involved in how the coach manages. It's a pretty common occurrence when we 2nd guess how much a kid should throw. There are parents who are way too involved in little Johnny, this may be the opposite.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by liner:
No intention to stir up a ***** session, just an attempt to see what might be an appropriate path. Sharing an experience, not complaining about anything in particular. If we don't share experiences, I'm curious how we can figure out the best alternatives. I try to MMOB, and do a pretty good job of the collective complaining often heard. 17/18's primarilly.

one of the issues as a parent is when to approach the coach...if it's in a game - that's probably out of bounds; but the damage can be done at a certain point, so as a parent, what's appropriate. My gut instinct was that 100 pitches was too many for him. Many major league teams will limit young starters to 110 or so, and these guys are pros with a strict throwing regiment.


Liner,
No where have you indicated that the player did not see a doctor.
If he was off for six weeks and able to return he must have had a clearance. Who gave him 6 weeks off? It doesn't matter what the injry was, pitchers need their entire body not just an arm.

Did he prepare to pitch during that time frame? I don't get this going out to pitch for 7 innings upon return with that pitch count, regardless of what position you play. That is way too much.

I agree with MTH that the blame is to be shared equally, but leave the player out, he was only doing what he was told and wanted to help his team. The parents may or may not be educated as to pitcher's routines. The coach should be and he is the one responsible for players sore arm.

I understand your concern, I would be too. Although you have no control over someone elses player, I feel that parents who know better have somewhat of an obligation to educate those that don't, including the coach.
Last edited by TPM
L liner100+ posts
I tried to keep it brief, relaying the main points; basically a position player for the last 2 years. One of the coaches knows him to be a good pitcher from past experience, but not his main role with this team.

I think under the circumstances 3-4 innings would be max, but everyone gets caught up in winning, (the kid especially) and we were all rooting for him. It could have maybe been prevented if the parent talks to the coach in the 4th or 5th, but how well would that be received - and at the time a tough call. It was discussed during the game - some saying he heasn't pitched for so long, he should come out - other saying let him be, he's doing great, he's young. Bottom line is that sometimes we may need to be more responsible, do what is right for the kids despite what others say , or think.

In the same tournament a mom went on the field and confronted an umpire at home plate. Never seen that before. Intersting opposites of the spectrum.
trojan-skippertrojan-skipper1,000+ posts
This pops up everywhere. This summer we faced a guy on a Saturday, he threw 106 pitches (according to our book, can probably add a few for 2 strike foul balls). He threw a whale of a game. Then on Monday we are still alive in tourney and so are they; they bring him back and he throws 89 pitches (15 yrs old).

I bit my tongue and didn't say anything; we knocked him out, finally, in the 5th inning of the second game, and his coach told him as he was walking off the mound, "you just weren't yourself out there today."

I'm the opposing coach so it looks like I'm whining if I say anything but it was crazy....
Bulldog 19Bulldog 195,000+ posts
quote:
I know of a couple of situations where if parents had just taken their son to the doc, it would be completely different. One parent relied on a trainer (a high school student!) who said the injury was just a strain and take a few days off and the player would be fine.


Appreciate the slam. Really I do. But I guess when 90% of my education revolves around orthopedic conditions it means nothing. Considering many physicians' response to any orthopedic conditions "sit two weeks" I definitely know any kid should go running to the doctor rather than a healthcare professional trained in orthopedic injury.

PS it's ATHLETIC TRAINER.
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
The player needs to let the coach know whats going on. The coach needs to respect the player and look after him. If the player does not speak up the coach may assume everything is fine. If the coach does not respect what the player is saying and does not look after him then he has no one to blame but himself when the parents of the player step up and do what they have to do.

There is not given set of pitches or innings for every player and every situation is different. Three innings in a weekend may be all some players can handle. Some kids need more time than others. Some kids can pitch , play the field and bounce back quicker than others. Some simply can not due to many factors. Anyone that has been around the game for any period of time knows and understands this.

At this age the player needs to be the one to go to the coach first. If the coach does not do his job then it is time for the parents to do theirs. JMO

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