When does a check swing become a strike?

You are looking for 9.02 c Comment

and you will be disappointed by the definition, it is entirely a judgement as to did the batter try to strike the ball all the breaking the wrist talk and barrel in front of the plate are announce showing their ignorance and spouting ****

(c) If a decision is appealed, the umpire making the decision may ask another umpire for information before making a final decision. No umpire shall criticize, seek to reverse or interfere with another umpire’s decision unless asked to do so by the umpire making it.
Rule 9.02(c) Comment: The manager or the catcher may request the plate umpire to ask his partner for help on a half swing when the plate umpire calls the pitch a ball, but not when the pitch is called a strike. The manager may not complain that the umpire made an improper call, but only that he did not ask his partner for help. Field umpires must be alerted to the request from the plate umpire and quickly respond. Managers may not protest the call of a ball or strike on the pretense they are asking for information about a half swing.
Appeals on a half swing may be made only on the call of ball and when asked to appeal, the home plate umpire must refer to a base umpire for his judgment on the half swing. Should the base umpire call the pitch a strike, the strike call shall prevail.
Baserunners must be alert to the possibility that the base umpire on appeal from the plate umpire may reverse the call of a ball to the call of a strike, in which event the runner is in jeopardy of being out by the catcher’s throw. Also, a catcher must be alert in a base stealing situation if a ball call is reversed to a strike by the base umpire upon appeal from the plate umpire.
The ball is in play on appeal on a half swing.
On a half swing, if the manager comes out to argue with first or third base umpire and if after being warned he persists in arguing, he can be ejected as he is now arguing over a called ball or strike.

When you check a swing to you BU, he determines whether the batter attempted to swing. Technically how far he swings isn't relevant, whether his intent to strike the ball is. Now most will use some form of how much of the bat they see as a basis.

I had seen the 9.02 c, just didn't see any real definition in there.

Seems like this is pretty fundamental to be so open ended in the rules. We've got about five pages of rules and examples for batting out of order, but almost nothing defining a swing?

In MLB it seems like the barrel can get to the front edge of the plate before its called a swing, college is similar.

I saw flinches in HS ball where the barrel never got as far as the batter's back shoulder called swinging strikes by both PU and BU on appeal.

At school it was suggested that after the pitcher released the ball, to look first to the hands to see if a swing might be imminent, and then focus on the torso.

With all due respect to the esteemed contributors to this forum, "What does it all mean?"

If the batter's hands start to move, (lets say 2 degrees of rotation) and his torso moves 90 degrees, but the hands stay back after 2 degrees of rotation, what do you call? In my small, limited, fan based world, this is a non-swing. If the hands and bat stay back, there is no swing. You might have a pulled muscle, but not a 'struck at the ball'.

Likewise, if the bat gets into the strike zone anywhere near the ball, then I can see it being a swing.

The ones I see problems with are the balls up and in where there is a short lunge check swing, but the batter pulls back. Many times, this ball is fouled off, but when not, is called a ball. How can this not be an attempt to hit the ball when the bat comes within inches of the ball? Any movement in the bat looks like an attempt to swing at the pitch.

Likewise, the pitch down and away, where the barrel of the bat comes almost entirely through the zone, but stops short of the ball, it looks like the batter is not making an attempt (he only changed his mind at the last millisecond). He may have committed his hands and torso, but not necessarily made an effort. How do you call these?

I guess my biggest complaint is that in several hundred pages of rules, they don't define a 'swing'.

It isn't exactly spelled out because it is impossible to explain every possible type of swing/no swing. If you think about it there is no exact definition of interference or obstruction either. You can't exactly explain every combination of a physical action, too many variables.

quote:

Originally posted by JMoff:

I guess my biggest complaint is that in several hundred pages of rules, they don't define a 'swing'.

You need to remember that baseball is not a kids game that men play; it is a game designed for men that kids play.

The rules are written for professional players and umpires, not amateurs. Professional umpires, after some seasoning, are amazingly alike in their calls on check swings.

A checked swing becomes a strike when the umpires say it is and it will vary from batter to batter and umpire team to umpire team

This is not bait---it is fact

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
A checked swing becomes a strike when the umpires say it is and it will vary from batter to batter and umpire team to umpire team

This is not bait---it is fact

That is completely true.

Technically how far he swings isn't relevant, whether his intent to strike the ball is.

Well I agree and disagree. IMO in the past few years the check swing strike call has grown to anything that gets near the plate. I agree it should be based on intent only.

Ex: There's a little guy here in Seattle, Ichiro,
ain't nobody in the world ever gonna convice me that he can't get the bat over or even past the plate and still have "no intention of swinging" many others as well.

I personally have never considered "a spot" when appealed too, rather did he go for it.

I appreciate all the comments and don't want to beat a dead horse, but I will anyway.

Technically, they don't even have a rule that says, "A swing is a srike when the batter makes an atempt to strike at the ball". They don't say anything at all.

It used to be the batter had to "break" his wrists---nowadays I don't think it matters

TR, the breaking the wrists comment is a coach's statement, not an umpire's. It is one of many myths that have been around for years that luckily has pretty much died.

Michael

Why is it that everything you guys dont agree with a myth?

Because it is. Find any manual, rulebook or printed authority that says a check swing should be called when the batter breaks his wrists.
Would you prefer if I call it a factoid? A factoid is something repeated enough times that people assume it is true. This may be a more accurate term. The problem is many believe a factoid is a fancy word for a fact.

Correct Michael.

Never in the history of the baseball did "breaking the wrist" appear in the rule book. To believe that this is or was a part of the rule is to choose to believe in a myth.

quote:

Originally posted by TRhit:
Michael

Why is it that everything you guys dont agree with a myth?

Mainly its becasue we devote a lot of time to reading and studying the rule book and the associated manuals...........if its in the book, then its fact.....if it isnt, then its a myth......

here are some MYTHS..... not supported by the rules

1. The hands are considered part of the bat.
2. The batter-runner must turn to his right after over-running first base.
3. If the batter breaks his wrists when swinging, it's a strike.
4. If a batted ball hits the plate first it's a foul ball.
5. The batter cannot be called out for interference if he is in the batter's box.
6. The ball is dead on a foul-tip.
7. The batter may not switch batter's boxes after two strikes.
8. The batter who batted out of order is the person declared out.
9. The batter may not overrun first base when he gets a base-on-balls.
10.Ties go to the runner.

there are tons more....probably born on the sandlot, but are in fact myths........or misinterpretations...

Add
1. The pitcher has to step off to throw to first.
2. The pitcher can't throw ahead of an advancing runner.
3. A balk is immediate dead ball.(True in Fed)
4. Manager/coach has the absolute right to argue anything and get help whenever he asks.

There more but I'm not coming up with more off the top of my head.

9. The batter may not overrun first base when he gets a base-on-balls.

Since this is a FED board, the batter may overrun first on a BB, but he is at risk of being tagged out.