WHEN DOES REALITY SET IN ?

Do you think this is a recent phenomena--the not facing reality? You've been posting here a long time. Are us parents losing our grip more profoundly today than in the past?

Well said, TR. Some things just don't seem to ever change, and this is one of them.

Newcomer

Not so sure that parents were so over involved in the past. Not sure of the age range of parents on this site, but they don't call us "helicopter" parents for nothing ( we hover over our children). It appears that the narcissistic investment that parents make in their children now is far greater than in the past. Opinions?

Can't speak for the rest of the country, but in Houston, the '07 Class is loaded with talent and many of these guys have been playing select with or against each other since they were 9 or 10. I believe some parents are reaching for the panic button because Johnny hasn't signed and many of Johnny's buddies/teammates/etc... have. Now, most mid-top level D1's are basically done with, especailly with position players. They may still try and pick up an additional arm in the Spring signing period, but it seems that many of these type programs are basically done.

I also agree with Tom. Johnny's parents are also under the belief that since he has been playing side-by-side with some of the D1 signees, surely, Johnny also deserves D1 attention. Obviously not the case, or at least not at the same D1 levels. I don't know if it is the parents' ego, the kids' or both. Probably a combination of both. Everyone wants to have the signing picture in local paper for all the town to see.

I also see many of the players and parents that have singed, believe all the drama is over. They will get a rude surprse next fall.

As the NCAA commercial says, most of these guys will be going professional, just not in their sport.

My son and I have known TRhit for several years now. Me more so than my son, since I have talked to Tom on the phone many times. I have nothing to gain from what TR is saying and have no affiliation with his organization, and I concur with his thoughts.

My son and I thought as most of you do, that he can play at the D1 level. But most coaches have specific needs, or "holes" if you will, that they need to fill immediately, or project down the road a few years.

If any of you like, I would be more than happy to share our situation, our experiences, and try and have you realize that D1 is not the ends-to-all-means. PM me if you what to talk, and I'll give you my phone number.

Boomer

NLI Early Signings:

My kids HS Class of 2007 for D1-----one player out of nine 2007 Seniors

My sons Premier Summer Team for D1-----4 players out of nine 2007's

My sons Fall Scout team for D1-----20 out of 24 2007's

This illustrates the food chain based on the numbers.

The HS team is the pond
The Summer team is the lake
The scout team is the bigger lake

*****MILB/D1 college is a great lake

*****MLB is the ocean........and the studs are the sharks

OLDSLUGGER8,
I like that!!
It make's since.
Just keep swimming.

Good post Tom and a very good topic. The proactive parent and the dollars they are willing to spend has helped fuel the fire to the problem you describe. I too think this “situation” has escalated over the past years into what can be a real quandary for many players and their parents. Some very important facts to remember.

1. No matter what the parents and the players do, the number of college roster spots remains the same.

2. Players are selected to fill those roster spots according to their talentand not according to how many showcases they have attended or how many miles the travel team has logged.

The showcases, camps, and travel teams are a help to many players giving them great competition and great exposure but I also think this lulls the player and his family into thinking they have done everything just right and the phone will automatically start ringing when the time comes. Not so! Years ago it was pretty basic. The coach would do all the work searching out the most talented players, contact those players, and ask them to play for State U. the parents were not that involved --- today --- the proactive parents think they have the solution to getting to the next level. They showcase in front of State U coach, call the coach at State U and tell him about their son, send the coach a video, have the high school coach write a letter --- and they expect an offer. If the truth be known, the selection process eventually reverts back to the coach searching out the most talented players, contacting those talented players, and asking them to play for State U. So the exposure your son is involved in does make the coach’s job easier in locating your son and evaluating his talent but it does little if anything at all in helping him improve his actual worth.
Fungo

quote:

So the exposure your son is involved in does make the coach’s job easier in locating your son and evaluating his talent but it does little if anything at all in helping him improve his actual worth.

That is the cold hard fact!

It has been very easy for me to get caught up in all the excitement, having my Son surrounded by talent. He can play at the collegiate level somewhere…but that is no longer the goal.
I guess reality is still about a year or so away. I don't know what it will bring.

WHEN DOES REALITY SET IN ?

Well it's to early for 07 to panic.
It was just the early signing period.
With the spring signing period coming up.
And then there's the Draft.
And College's that are scrambling to fill there need's following the draft?
As a Parent your along for the ride with your rose colored
glasses.
Some shade's are lighter than other's, But we all have them.
If you don't believe in your child's talent who will?
But, take a realistic look at that Talent.

And keep playing, Don't ever give up. EH

I would like to comment on this thread, one never builds a house without a strong foundation. Here in Florida we have many talented players, however, !!! many times these players have some major flaws, areas that have never been corrected, guess what ? a college coach isnt going to take a chance anymore on a player with RAW skills, maybe the pro scout does but most college coaches today are looking for the final product, aka a player ready to go and maybe needs to get a little stronger which they will do for him in college. Parents today more than ever, are looking for the right select team to put their player on, and most think if that team wins it somehow means their child will be the next Chipper Jones, sorry they dont always go together. Parents need to invest in lessons with a qualified instructor and one that will give them honest evaluations, the younger you are correcting them the better, as a 28 year veteran of baseball as a scout, coach both at high school and college level, current academy owner I can tell you as the saying goes its hard to teach an old dog new tricks, if a kid has dropped his elbow since age 9 and he is now 17 and needs to develop the correct bat path to the ball, it aint happening in most cases. Parents stop worrying about whos team little Johnny is on at age 11 and spend that travel money on instruction, it will pay off in the end.

That is the route that we have gone. We have spent 5 or 6 years with professional hitting instruction. It is not always apparent. I hear it said that parents and players are most interested in where the ball goes. A scout wants to see how the bat goes. My oldest guy is an '08. I hope it will all come together for him this Spring. But I guess as stated above, the Summer and Fall are where the seperation really occurs.

Thank god for rose colored glasses.
If it wasn't for these parents many of the great entertainers, athletes etc would not be were they are today.
I am amazed at how many are ready to denounce othem for being unrealistic. My guess is that most parents on this site have rose colored glasses regarding their kids. Their are some that are correct and some that are not about their ability but thankfully they cared enough to stick with their son and daughter. It is when they start interferring with coaches and ADs etc that is a problem.
Even if they over estimate their talent hopefully they enjoyed the experiences they had.
The US parents face the pressures about signing and to be totally honest I could not have cared less. We talk about whos dream it is well it was my son's. I have never protected him from failure and I don't even get butterflies when my son pitches. He has been asked to play in a college summer league twice and i told him no twice. he has to work to pay for his college and that was part of the deal for him playing college ball. I have slipped him a few grand but that is it. He has paid for almost all his school so far and when he told me he wanted to play D1 I helped him to a point. Mostly with his marketing.
You guys worry about HS ball and we do have a very good HS system. 20 teams in our district but no recruiters or concerns about college ball and what the coach would say to a recruiter. We just didn't worry about that stuff. maybe ignorance is bliss. I am always amazed at what some are willing to spend to get to a place that really seemed quite straight forward.
Rather than worry about people who are unrealistic I am more concern about people that don't support the kids realistically or otherwise.

TR - Real positive post there. Do you coach and say give up you can't play with this team or do you strive to succeed? Did David Eckstein say hey everyone thinks I can't play? Did Namath say I guarantee the Colts will win? Did Einstein give up on his theories because people thought he was nuts? Did Columbus believe others when they said the world was flat? Did Martin Luther King's statement say "I have to take whats given"? Baseball models life and you will not be a success in life if you give up constantly. These people are considered to have achieved great accomplishments because they chased their dreams instead of listening to the masses. These players that haven't signed now may still play someplace and if not they learn a great lesson by the experience. Like how to play politics better or how to manipulate the system that exists today or maybe find a fire in themselves they didn't know exist. So if you haven't signed yet, don't give up because sometimes the masses are wrong and you don't know unless you try. There are still colleges recruiting at every level you just have to find them.

I believe Morgan Ensberg was a walk on at USC.

Great post BALLER26.

TR is absolutely correct.
Very possibly our expectations may have to be altered. I recently spoke with 2 D1 coaches who had NO early signees. They made offers and came up empty. These programs still have spots and dollars to spend. These are not major programs in major conferences...is that a step down for some?

Coach Merc it is not a matter of being correct.
I have seen parents who donot support their kids and to me that is far worse than over evaluating.
There are several examples in sports like basketball, tennis and BB of over bearing parents who pushed/backed their kids all the way to the big time.
The system will tell you when it is time to become realistic. Some athletes don't reach their stride until mid 20s. Does he drop out at 18 because someone like a coach says he will never make it. Many MLB players can tell you horror stories before they got where they are.

I'm a never give up, never give in person. I believe it's a parents responsibility to support their kids and we've given ours every opportunity....Like you said, the system will tell you when and sometimes that's not the end. I believe the end is near when parents start substituting hard work/dedication of their kids with excuses.

The recruiting process is not perfect...There are many players overlooked that can definitely play. If there are players who have not signed, maybe they should be looking at the list of schools with few or no signees rather then the ones who have signed 10+.
I know for myself, I got cut as a freshman walk-on 25+ years ago. Played during the summers and then made the team and started the next 3 years...

The fact of the matter is that simply playing on a high school team, of whatever caliber and exposure, may not be enough for many players wishing to move to the next level. For D1, it is evident from the stats posted here that finding opportunities outside of high school is almost essential. Parental involvement is nearly mandatory at this point since you're talking about freshman players (or earlier) needing help to find the teams, sort out the pros and cons of the teams, selecting a summer/travel team coach and getting the players to these games.Time and money still need to come from the parental angle of this process. Add the years of watching a boy develop at home and on the field to all of the above and you have a parent who very well might have expectations that are, yeah, irrational and misplaced...but they are reasonable expectations that SOMETHING will come of all this. I speak as a mother who is a relative "newcomer" to this. As a family, we invested a lot of time and money (just for fun, we calculated how much this recruiting process cost for us..bear in mind we didn't do travel/summer teams..and the cost was ouch). As I have posted all along in the process, the wake-up call that one's son might not be D1 material is hard to hear. You keep hoping for one last miracle (we got one two weeks ago..but I was well aware that it might not come). Then you back off and take a good look at what you have to work with and go forward. There is an inertia that is hard to define when you wonder if you've been wrong about expectations. This website can really help at this point as you read about so many in that position...the July-laments, the November-freakouts...it is all here. And you've got to keep plugging away. I can laugh now. But the last showcase that my son went to was the sealer on his D1 oppportunity. Son and family were facing a reality at that point and wondered if this one last showcase was worth the money and the travel time. Reality is such a bummer sometimes...but you've got to believe that with all the good work your son has put into this sport and his academics..that something good will come of it. Maybe not what you (emphasis on "you")set out to accomplish but it might just be a rare and rich outcome for your son. The hard part is not knowing if you'll recognize it when it comes.

Baller


Read my post over again and slowly this time---wherein do I say give up---I say be realistic about the boys talent not be a dreamer

Bobblehead

The "system" as you term it may never tell you when it is time to be realistic.


Coach Merc

Many think that if their son does nto get calls from the likes of LSU, Miami etc that it is all over---that is the problem

BE REALISTIC FROM THE GIT GO !!!!

Not to be wishy-washy, but I see both sides.

Personally I hate being realistic. Regarding baseball… I truly believe if everyone were realistic, over half of those playing in the major leagues would never have reached that level. I agree that the world would be a much different place if everyone had spent their time being realistic.

If I were realistic, we would have quit doing what we now do over 10 years ago. I see nothing wrong and everything right about achieving what others think are impossible dreams. There’s nothing wrong in shooting for the moon, if someone is willing to do what it takes to get there.

There’s nothing wrong with parents wearing rose colored glasses, so long as they don’t turn into blind folds. And young kids who never give up usually end up being successful at something if baseball doesn’t pan out. You control (to a certain extent) what is possible or impossible.

That said… I think TR means being realistic as being able to make the proper adjustments. No matter what, we can’t always force others to do what we think or want. If the DIs don’t call, the real dreamer is prepared to go to plan B. (Junior College, DI. DII. DIII, NAIA, etc.) Taking any of these routes can allow a player to hold on to the dream. Only those who won’t make the adjustment and end up quitting because the DIs overlooked them are the ones who didn’t want it enough. They were the ones who never wanted it bad enough from the start.

The real truth lies in the son’s heart and mind. Parents can support, but they can’t force their dreams on someone who doesn’t truly share the same dreams.

It’s not where you start… It’s more about where you finish… And the many adjustments that are necessary for most all of us along the way. There are many paths to the top!

PG, too bad baseball doesn't have half-time, because that is a Knute Rockne-type speech!

Why does it have to "end" anyway? You know the saying, "..old soldiers never die, they just fade away". Well, old ballplayers never die, they just turn into coaches!

.
Good thread. Nice give and take.

Great Post PG! Love this stuff!

...I'll take you one step further...

Perhaps it's all about the journey and the only real finish or destination is YOU. In the end how far did YOU go. Not meaning the initials MLB or even DI, but what did you learn on the way? About dreams? About yourself? About digging deep? About accepting yourself and your limitations? Or about going further than you ever though you could? About adaption? About motivation? About changing course when necessary? About being a better member of society and a better human being?

And beyond that, armed with that knowledge what can you do to make the world a better place?

We are so conditioned to the outside, the money, the prestige, the trophy, the winning, MLB, or DI....that we too often forget about the inside.

It can be hard for a parent to accept after spending thousands and thousands of dollars and a decade chasing the DI dream...but a "well fit" player happily, prospering, learning, growing at JC might just be the perfect option.

44
.

TR - you said lower your sights. That is giving up to a degree. I hear all the go D3 stuff that is pushed on this site. For some it is really a good fit. I have even taken my son to a couple D3's. But why pay 35,000 a year to go to a school where you can play. The field has no lights, the win total is 1/6 of the losses. They want you to sell raffle tickets to help pay for the Florida trip etc etc. Just doesn't make sense. Then the other is a third of the size of my son's high school and even the pitching coach says hey I could never pitch as fast as you and I pitched in college. You ask for placement figures and they say we don't know that but we will get that for you. I understand your point TR - Your saying be realistic in your abilities and find a place where they fit. But in all honesty I have seen a lot of players that have been recruited that were not that good compared to others I saw. In all reality I think I could make 2 hours worth of calls and get better prospects than what I saw some of the local D1's recruited. I sat in the stands a few months ago and watched one of the most heavily recruited players give up 7 runs in the first inning but yes he was fast, too bad few of them were strikes. Scouts love a tall player that lights up the radar gun. Then in June and July some of those same scouts will be looking again because that guy they chose didn't make the grades to get in or got hurt or drafted. So if you haven't signed, bust your butt and only give up on your dream when your ready to.

Great post PG and O44,

Baller26, what is your son's goal??

D1 only??

Any college can still allow you to reach your Goal!!

Reality set's in when Dreamer's stop Dreaming!!
EH

Baller,

Not all D-III's are 35K per year, many aren't, and a lot of D-III's have great fields and facilities. The players likely maintain the field, as opposed to grounds crew, the away games are bus trips, not flights, but there's an awful lot to like. I think TR's saying not to turn up one's nose before checking them out.

I agree with many here about the schools but some kids dream of D1 NCAA. In my son's case he was realistic but also shot for some schools that most might call unrealistic.
The unlimate goal was to pitch against top D1 schools. We knew he would have trouble getting top schools to look at him due to where we lived and the fact we didnot showcase in the US. We marketed to several types of colleges and were only looking at schools in warm climates that had games against top schools. i feel we were realistic but not negative and were confident he could play at a hich level.

BHD,

Great REALISTIC approach. You and your son set a standard, identified goals, identified obstacles, and began your search. What more could you ask for? The best part of a plan like that is you had the luxury of fine tuning that dream.

The utimate "dream" is always there to strive for, however, reality is always part of that equation. Lowering your sights should never be inturpreted as giving up as it is actually proof that the rose colored glasses are not involved. Unless you are willing to take 1 step back in order to take 2 steps forward, you may be setting yourself up for disappointment and that is the worse outcome out there.

Bobblehead,

I'm not going say that is the approach we took, but that is how it ended up.

I knew (or felt) that my son was not gonna get any serious looks from any Major D-1 programs simply because he was that low to occasional mid 80's soft tossing lefty. As many have stated on this board , the scouts look for the guys who light up the guns first and foremost. We were late in making the showcase rounds, as we did not start until this Fall. Being from Texas, we did the Baylor, Texas A&M showcases and then topped it off with the PG Jupiter Tournament.
The feedback we recieved from these tournaments were, we like his arm slot, we love his mechanics, we think he has an above average curveball and changeup, we really like his mound makeup, he really knows how to pitch. Then the bad news, were concerned about his velocity, if he could only add two or three mph to his fastball. Although he pitched very well in all his appearances, it was the velocity that kept him from being looked at seriously.

Well, a local D-1 school (University of Texas at Arlington) came along and said they liked what they saw. They said he reminded them of a pitcher they had who was throwing low-mid 80's his freshman year and after they worked with him he is now mid to upper 80's and defeated the Texas Longhorns once last year. As you stated bobblehead, if were not gonna hookup with the big boys, lets play the big boys.
UTA's schedule includes, Texas, Oklahoma State, Oklahoma (2), Baylor (2), TCU (2), Mississippi State, Illinois to name a few. Last year they met up with Texas in the College World Series regionals in Austin and got knocked out. So just because your not playing with Major D-1 programs around the country, does not mean you cannot fulfill your dream. My son signed his NLI in the early signing period and will not look back

theygrowupfast - that is a great story Huge congrats to your son and your family

I think your son has every opportunity before him. With that type of schedule, he will get great exposure and he can grow against some of the best competition in the nation. Who knows who will be the best prospects 3 or 4 years from now.

Theygrow that is great stuff.
My son has gained 15lbs since starting college in 05. He was still physically a boy and now is turning the corner.
He loves Charleston SC, the school and his teammates. Believe it or not there is a lot more to college than baseball and studying. Last year he stayed with some great people for thanks giving, had thurky dinner on a coact guard ship, this year he had 3 kinds of turky he had never had, Barbeque and fried and can't believ how niece everyone is. I hope some of that southern hospitality wears off on him.

Theygrowupfast,
That is a great story, congrats to your son.

Often I see someone post in the "Ask About Colleges" thread asking about one of the smaller D1's. If I am familiar with the program and who they play, I will post that they play a tough schedule.

These smaller programs should be investigated thoroughly. So many programs these days have great schedules, playing against larger powerhouses. Smart coaches. It improves the RPI, gives players lots of exposure and improves their level of play.

There are JUCO programs, at least in Texas and probably in other parts, with stronger programs than some of the D1's. There are some D2's, D3's & NAIA schools with stronger programs than some of the D1's.

All D1's are not created equal.

The key, IMHO, is to play - regardless of the school's designation.