I have been looking around some of the college web sites and I see many names that are not on rosters. Do players get cut from their college teams or are they made to leave. These kids work pretty hard. Anyone have an idea.
Thanks
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I'm guessing most guys make their own decision to leave based on lack of playing time, but players do get cut and players are encouraged to leave. Take a look at those players' previous years ABs or IPs. Usually there is a direct correlation between low numbers and guys leaving.
Yes, kids get cut.
Yes, kids lose the desire to play as college opens up lots of other interesting opportunities.
Yes, kids transfer for a variety of reasons - some related to playing time.
Yes, kids don't make grades and leave.
No, hard work alone guarantees nothing other than the inner satisfaction of working hard.
College baseball is hard. Orders of magnitude harder than HS. Ironically, very few of those recruited have ever failed (for long) at baseball; then, the majority experience that sour taste of failure at the next level. Many don't survive (baseball wise) that taste.
As financial advisors are fond of saying: past performance doesn't guarantee future results. Many are not prepared for that dose of reality. Once the fun goes out of the game, it's not a game, it's work, hard, hard thankless work which sops up all the free time a student has to give - in an environment (college) which should be full of fun and challenges.
Infiekd,
My two cents....If you stick around this site long enough and get to know the posters and follow up with your own network of folks who are playing college baseball you begin to understand there is often a serious disconnect between the expectations and the reality. Goosegg has laid it out there pretty good (no pun intended) and succintly. There is a lot of risk...I've seen it in spades with many people I know. However, I think through planning and understanding the situation ahead of time folks can help themselves in many ways.
Just to add....
Sometimes players (and parents) get all googly-eyed when the ACC or SEC (or other) start looking, and offering. It is best to go where you can play....not just where you are promised to play.
I researched about 5-7 years worth of rosters before son committed. You can see how many fall off the rosters, past performance (stats anyway), how many JuCo players transfer in, etc. Injuries also can take a player off a roster for a year, or forever.
Certain schools have a history of recruiting more players than their roster can handle. So, you may see a player listed on the fall roster, only to be cut and not on the spring roster.
All great responses but I'm curious, infieKD, are you talking specifically about players who were on last year's roster and not this year or players who you know went to play at a school this year that don't show up on the roster or ???
The first eye opened when I saw the size of recruiting classes for schools, 15+ kids. If they do that every year, that's 60 kids for 35 spots.
The second eye opened when I looked at stats for a school and 10 position players would have 95% of the at bats. And three pitchers would have 50% of the innings, seven pitchers would have 90% of the innings.
I cannot emphasize enough that GO44 post is the most data filled, dream busting, truthful piece of information in a short statement ever posted.
My son's team lost 3 kids from last spring that didn't graduate. They left for a variety of reasons which i won't get into here....one on his own....one not baseball related
Yeah class size opened my eyes as well. Just read the article on LSU's 16 player recruiting class, obviously they all don't make it there or players started getting weeded out pretty quickly.
IMO, these common dynamics are why I feel academic scholly's are far preferable to athletic $'s. If player cut, quits or encouraged to move on, most likely athletic $'s go away. Academic $'s however most likely do not. I know this is not an option for all, but something to think about. Friend's son recently finished second year of Big 12 D1. He was on academic $'s versus athletic because of strong grades. New coach was hired. New coach decides to clean house. Many athletic scholly players "encouraged" to transfer which allows him to free up athletic $'s. Academic $ guys allowed to stay on because they are basically "free" to the program. Friend's son ultimately decides to bail on baseball next season at the school but is able to stay because academic $'s not tied to baseball. Other guys all have to leave because they can't afford to stay without the athletic $. Pretty cruel but it seems not uncommon. Personally, I think 4 year athletic scholarships should be guaranteed unless student is insubordinate or quits, but that's a whole other topic.
4 year guaranteed contracts would force schools to recruit better and stop loading up on recruiting classes. No way 15 or 16 incoming baseball players make a power 5 team unless the coach is new and has cleaned house from a losing program. Guarantee the schollys and let kids decide to play baseball where they would ultimately like to attend school for 4 years and NOT where the coach has recruited 5 other kids for the same position.
nxt lvl posted:4 year guaranteed contracts would force schools to recruit better and stop loading up on recruiting classes. No way 15 or 16 incoming baseball players make a power 5 team unless the coach is new and has cleaned house from a losing program. Guarantee the schollys and let kids decide to play baseball where they would ultimately like to attend school for 4 years and NOT where the coach has recruited 5 other kids for the same position.
I'm not sure if 4 year guarantees in baseball would change the current dynamic much. A 4 year guarantee for a 25% scholarship is very different than one for 100% (football and basketball). With 100% scholarships, a kid is much more likely to stick around even if he's being encouraged to leave. For a lot of guys, that 25% scholarship just makes the school competitive with other schools price-wise. They often have transfer options with similar or lower costs.
That is why it has been said on this string and by many others on this site…. Go where you can play. Be honest with yourself and ask the question: is this a school where I can spend 4 years (or 5) without baseball?
Let’s face it, many of the players you see sign, tweet or post on certain websites that they have “committed to play baseball” at their chosen school don’t always have the same commitment from the school. It is not uncommon that the fall roster is different than the spring roster for many reasons like grades, projected playing time or coach reconsideration of player talent.
JABMK posted:That is why it has been said on this string and by many others on this site…. Go where you can play. Be honest with yourself and ask the question: is this a school where I can spend 4 years (or 5) without baseball?
Let’s face it, many of the players you see sign, tweet or post on certain websites that they have “committed to play baseball” at their chosen school don’t always have the same commitment from the school. It is not uncommon that the fall roster is different than the spring roster for many reasons like grades, projected playing time or coach reconsideration of player talent.
Good point, I know an athlete in another sport that tweeted out his commitment this week to a school - confirmed from his father that he is not getting any athletic $. Although he is getting in state tuition - another topic I need to understand better how that works.
Son's school seems to have 5-8 kids every year that have eligibility remaining but don't return. Most want to go somewhere else to play, some get hurt. Interesting that lots leave after year two once they figure out they would like to go to a D2 or D3 to play last two years vs. not play or travel for two more years.
Maybe as a pitcher's parent I pay attention to the arm injuries but I know a lot of kids that give up the game over hurt elbows and lots of hurt shoulders. Not just pitchers. As I think Cressey says: Availability is becoming a scouting tool now too.
nxt lvl posted:4 year guaranteed contracts would force schools to recruit better and stop loading up on recruiting classes. No way 15 or 16 incoming baseball players make a power 5 team unless the coach is new and has cleaned house from a losing program. Guarantee the schollys and let kids decide to play baseball where they would ultimately like to attend school for 4 years and NOT where the coach has recruited 5 other kids for the same position.
As of this year (2016 college freshmen), Power 5 schools have 4-year scholarships with the award for all four years spelled out in the NLI.
2015s who enrolled the fall of '15 at Power 5s & Notre Dame (65 schools) are protected with 4 year deals.
Shoveit4Ks posted:2015s who enrolled the fall of '15 at Power 5s & Notre Dame (65 schools) are protected with 4 year deals.
For those 65 schools, do you think that will mean less (and/or smaller) scholarships and smaller signing classes in '16-'19?
Shoveit4Ks posted:2015s who enrolled the fall of '15 at Power 5s & Notre Dame (65 schools) are protected with 4 year deals.
I just checked the roster of the closest P5 to me. 3 or 12 freshmen from last year did not return. I know that 2 were on scholarship, but not sure about the 3rd. Small sample, but a 25% scholarship isn't enough to keep most kids at a school if they aren't playing.
It is the dream of a lot of players to play college baseball. There are many benefits and challenges to playing any college sport that go well beyond just playing the game. It is not easy to stay on a roster!
Freshman year, a typical day is waking up early morning (5 AM) for team work out, then scheduled classes until approx. 3PM, then team practice until 7Pm and finally dinner. Then after dinner, depending on the major could be 2-4 hrs of homework or studying for the big test. Sound Easy?
As an athlete is on their way to study they are passing by the common area in their dorm hall/floor and all their friends are sitting around socializing and maybe evening getting ready to go out. You see your 17-21 year old athlete will need strong discipline and accept that while they were practicing their friends had the time to get their work done. Sound Easy?
Season comes around and the schedule is still physically demanding but now is also mentally demanding. In season brings pressure to perform on the field and not just in class. Typical travel series maybe 3-5 hour travel on Thursday for a weekend 3-4 game series. While focused on improving hitting or pitching performances there was a test in one of your classes that you have to take on the plane, bus or in a hotel room proctored by an assistant coach. Sound Easy?
I think you get the point that playing any sport in college is not easy. Asking a 17-19 year old to make mature decision as a freshman or sophomore can take many paths. Then realizing that juggling school, sports, a social life, or accepting that they may not get to another level, something may have to give. So why do see some kids left off the roster…..because sometime they realize playing college sports is not so easy.
The biggest issue my son had his freshman year was the weekday games. For some of the road games, they would leave by 9 or 10am for a 3 or 4pm game, then not get back until 10pm or later. He was the weekday starter for part of the year...but was also a back up IF so he went to every game...even if he knew he wasn't pitching. He talked to the coaches and isn't doing the IF thing any more. If he ends up a weekend starter he won't have to go to the weekday road games, which should make his life much calmer.
My son just finished his 4 year college career, and I’ll take you through his recruiting class. Top 25 D1 program. There were 15 announced early signings and 4 others that were either PWO or signed later. Of the 19, 5 did not make it to campus. I believe most if not all were drafted and went. Of the remaining 14…
- 5 played until they were out of eligibility (2 are redshirt seniors this year)
- 2 were drafted after their junior year.
- 3 were encouraged to leave after their freshman year. 2 transferred and kept playing and one transferred and did not play
- 1 was encouraged to leave after his sophomore year. He transferred and played at a D1 mid-major.
- 1 elected transfer after his sophomore year due to playing time. He probably would have been a starter his junior year, but I think he was fed up. He played his final 2 years at a D2.
- 1 had shoulder surgery after his freshman year and never quite made it back. He is graduating this fall.
- 1 was a JC transfer and forewent his final year to graduate early.
JABMK posted:It is the dream of a lot of players to play college baseball. There are many benefits and challenges to playing any college sport that go well beyond just playing the game. It is not easy to stay on a roster!
Freshman year, a typical day is waking up early morning (5 AM) for team work out, then scheduled classes until approx. 3PM, then team practice until 7Pm and finally dinner. Then after dinner, depending on the major could be 2-4 hrs of homework or studying for the big test. Sound Easy?
As an athlete is on their way to study they are passing by the common area in their dorm hall/floor and all their friends are sitting around socializing and maybe evening getting ready to go out. You see your 17-21 year old athlete will need strong discipline and accept that while they were practicing their friends had the time to get their work done. Sound Easy?
Season comes around and the schedule is still physically demanding but now is also mentally demanding. In season brings pressure to perform on the field and not just in class. Typical travel series maybe 3-5 hour travel on Thursday for a weekend 3-4 game series. While focused on improving hitting or pitching performances there was a test in one of your classes that you have to take on the plane, bus or in a hotel room proctored by an assistant coach. Sound Easy?
I think you get the point that playing any sport in college is not easy. Asking a 17-19 year old to make mature decision as a freshman or sophomore can take many paths. Then realizing that juggling school, sports, a social life, or accepting that they may not get to another level, something may have to give. So why do see some kids left off the roster…..because sometime they realize playing college sports is not so easy.
This is a great thread and a a very nice post, JABMK.
My only quibble is with the highlighted language -- taking 15 credit hours is approx. 3 hours per day of classes M-F, not from 8 or 9 until 3 pm every day. Truth be told, that typical day outlined is darn close to a day in the life of a varsity player at my son's high school (where they really do have classes from 8 to 3 every day).
Good post MasterofNone. That gives folks an idea at a top-25 D1 program. Based on son's former travel teammates that have played at top D1 programs that is not surprising. My son's best friend was at a top 5 D1 program and was more or less told after Fall baseball sophomore year he could stay on the team in the Spring but he would not play. The team went to the College World Series when he was a freshmen and he did play. He was devastated. There were many others like him.
I'll contrast that with my son's experience at a lower level D1 (Ivy) with 8 recruits freshmen year. One did not get the anticpated playing time (position player) as a freshmen and decided to quit to focus on an international business venture. Another freshmen (pitcher) was told he would not play the following year but he could remain on the team. He left the team. My son's junior year they gained a junior transfer (lefty pitcher). They graduated with 7 from his class. Not nearly as "exciting" as MasterofNone situation. The point is things can vary considerably depending on the program and their recruiting demands. Much research is needed.
Also, don't under estimate the additional cost as well. There will be numerous times practice runs through cafeteria serving times and meals will be the players responsibility. Then summer comes and the player is sent hours away from home to play and with no job or time to earn spending money like most students. I understand the power 5 has started providing some assistance, but baseball gets the low end of the allotment.
Wow lots of great stories.
Where are some of the UVA players going? Heard some big recruited players have left the program after fall season. Any details people can share?
The top DI programs are trying to recruit the top prospects. When you see 15 commitments it often turns into 7 or 8 freshman recruits. Decommits are just one issue. MLB clubs are also looking for the top prospects. When you look at the commitments to a program like Vandy and you see 15-16 commits, half might be draft picks and some of them are likely to be first round picks. If they only recruited 7-8 kids, they would be the very best 7-8 kids. All of them would be draft prospects that they could lose. Then what... They could end up with a freshman class of 3 or 4 players. Hard to stay near the top that way.
So sometimes when those recruiting classes look abnormally large it is because of necessity.
Also football transfers happen more than any other sport. Just don't always hear about them and of course the rosters are much larger. The 100% scholarship doesn't stop players from transferring to get more playing time. Usually they transfer to a school where they get just as much. School A, full scholarship, no playing time. School B, full scholarship with playing time. School C, no full scholarship, but very little cost and being a full time starter. Playing time is very important to "most" athletes. Some even transfer up to a much stronger program if they feel they can play at a much higher level.
We all know the importance of education and how great the college experience can be. We can all add up the costs and talk about choosing a college where you would like to be even without athletics. That is all parental thinking and full of wisdom. But most (not all) young HS "athletes" want to play their sport at the highest possible level at the best possible college. Right or wrong... That is at the top of their priority list. It is the competitive nature of an excellent athlete. And that competitive nature at times can end up being equally important as the education they get.
Sometimes I think parents see it the same way. Ohio State wants you to play football and is offering a full ride. DIII top academic college also wants you, it will cost you a small fortune, but you can afford it. Let's assume the DIII college offers a better education and is no doubt where your son would be happiest without football or whatever sport he plays. Now what do you do? I'm pretty sure I know what most young athletes would choose.
Infiekd posted:Wow lots of great stories.
Where are some of the UVA players going? Heard some big recruited players have left the program after fall season. Any details people can share?
Are these recruited players that signed an NLI or walked on. Freshman?
Be specific.
UVA has lost a bunch. Cut or just left?
Where do they go play this season?
Infiekd posted:UVA has lost a bunch. Cut or just left?
Where do they go play this season?
They could jump to a Juco next semester for a year or two and then readdress where they may fit. That is what a player did last year from keewartson's D1. I am sure there are many Jucos that will have their arms open to these players.
Remember, all of these players were studs in high school. They may not have liked the idea of playing behind the likes of several that will get drafted this spring. Waiting a year to play is an eternity for these guys. Or maybe they realized they may never play on Davenport Field.
I just printed off the fall roster to see how it will change to the spring roster.
Several years ago when UVA was plagued with injuries during the regular season, they just pulled a few players (3?) from the club team to fill the void.
From the 2016 Fall roster the only players not on it that PG had as commits, looks like either they were drafted and opted out of school or played football there instead. Maybe I am missing something? 
INFIEKD, are you talking about players that committed but never made it to UVA as CATSPOP suggested, or players that showed up and are now not on the team?
Well a few that come to mind from UVA are top ranked pitcher Eason and star outfielder Lowery. Both made rosters but are gone after 2 years.
Think they were both out of Hickory High School
Infiekd posted:Well a few that come to mind from UVA are top ranked pitcher Eason and star outfielder Lowery. Both made rosters but are gone after 2 years.
Think they were both out of Hickory High School
Lots of players transfer for different reasons. Could be any number of things.
Yeah that makes sense I just wonder what it is with UVA losing so many good players.
Infiekd posted:Yeah that makes sense I just wonder what it is with UVA losing so many good players.
Every program loses good players.
Not adhereing to team rules. Grades. Doesnt like coaching staff. Doesnt buy into the program. Wants to play another position, doesnt get the weekend start. Scholarships reduced.
Just a few reasons.
No one should ever take for granted that they cant be replaced. That includes coaches as well.
Well said
What about not living up to expectations. Sounds like that's what happen with lots of UVA people
Infiekd posted:Well a few that come to mind from UVA are top ranked pitcher Eason and star outfielder Lowery. Both made rosters but are gone after 2 years.
Think they were both out of Hickory High School
Just to answer where they went I know Eason is now at Seminole State College of Florida where he is expected to pitch for the Raiders.
Lowery was at Louisburg College for the fall 2016.
I saw both play at High School and hope the best for them.
Ok thank you. Why did he leave?
I would hope Eason would pitch there but heard he did not do to well in a resent scrimmage.
To much pressure???